Skip to comments.The Horrors Really Are Your America, Mr Bush (Another conservative turncoat jumps the shark)
Posted on 06/03/2006 5:50:22 PM PDT by quidnunc
"This is not America." Those words were President George W Bushs attempt to explain the horrors of Abu Ghraib prison on the Arabic-language network Alhurra in 2004. He spoke the words as if they were an empirical matter, but a cognitive dissonance could be sensed through them.
If the men and women who tortured and abused and murdered at Abu Ghraib did not represent America, what did they represent? They wore the uniforms of the United States military. They were under the command of the American military. In the grotesque, grinning photographs they clearly seemed to believe that what they were doing was routine and approved.
And we now know from the official record that Donald Rumsfeld, the defence secretary, had personally authorised the use of unmuzzled dogs to terrify detainees long before Abu Ghraib occurred, exactly as we saw in those photos. Does the secretary of defence not represent America?
Almost two years after the torture story broke Congress finally roused itself and passed an amendment to a defence appropriations bill by John McCain that forbade the use of any "cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment" of detainees by any American official anywhere in the world. It was passed by veto-proof margins and Bush signed it. But he appended a "signing statement" insisting that, as commander-in-chief, he retained the right to order torture if he saw fit.
And so on May 18 the nominee for CIA director, Michael Hayden, was asked directly by Senator Dianne Feinstein whether he regarded "waterboarding" as a legitimate interrogation technique. Hayden replied: "Let me defer that to closed session, and I would be happy to discuss it in some detail."
Huh? Why a closed session? Isnt the law crystal clear? Isnt strapping a person to a board, tilting him so that his head is below his feet, and pouring water through a cloth into his mouth to simulate drowning a form of "cruel, inhuman and degrading" treatment? And isnt that illegal? In America? Or is that not America either?
Another queer pretend conservative showing his/her/its true nature.
I don't think Andrew's been on the rez for a long while.
Andrew Sullivan: One of the leading "neoconservatives" who hysterically pushed us into the Iraq War and now have the baldfaced nerve to criticize tactics and by implication, the best men and women we put on the battlefield in Iraq.
Hard to even feel sorry for this pervert anymore.
He has been strongly anti-Bush and anti-Iraq ever since Bush first came out in favor of the constitutional amendment defining marriage.
Anti Gay Twit Sarcasm Torpedo ARMED. FIRE!!
By all accounts, that's nothing compared to what goes on among "consenting adults" in gay bathhouses and elsewhere, eh, Andy?
Why don't you pick a fight with Harvard's Alan Dershowitz who once agreed torture would be justifiable to prevent another terrorist attack...He's a liberal, just like you.
Nice try, though.
Dude, where you been? IIRC Andrew jumped the shark a long time ago.
NO ONE was tortured and abused unless you count those who had their heads cut off by those murdering scum who are the enemy! This just infuriates me!
Sullivan's allegance was always to the queer agenda above all else.
Oh, dear; not Andrew Sullivan's whining again. His rants are a form of torture, and he's less of a conservative than my cat.
Yes, this has more to do with Andy's loins than with his principles.
Andrew Sullivan falls in this catagory.
Actually no, it isn't. No actual physical harm is done.
Now taking a blowtorch and a pair of pliers to the genitalia of captured 'insurgents' might be considered cruel by some. Put me on the jury and I'll let the Intel weenies walk on that one every time.
I don't think it was a shark he jumped.
Anyone taking issue with what he said, rather than ad hominem drive-bys?
Let's look at this for a moment... if we can do these things to unconvicted detainees, then why can't we do them to convicted felons? Why aren't we waterboarding convicted felons?
Because of legal decisions... so that leads to... is America a nation ruled by law anymore?
Andy has obviously been listening to too many Neil Young albums and listening to tapes of Hanoi Boi's campaign speeches. He was for the war on terrorism before he was against it. Shut up Andy. Just shut up and let the adults do what has to be done. It's a dirty job but someone has to do it.
Yeah, it didn't take long for him to be 100% anti-Bush after the gay marriage issue.
Andrew has never been a real conservative. He is the most vile, hate-filled writer of today. He constantly whines about everyone and everything. Why anyone would bother to read his garbage is beyond me.
I doubt Sullivan was ever a conservative.
That cat's a lousy commie, that's for sure.
Murdered? What happened at Abu Ghraib under the command of U.S. forces wasn't much more in the way of torture than a college sorority hazing incident. The liberal slimes in the media are beyond help, their overwhelming hate of the U.S. military, and the Bush administration in particular, is off any scale remotely close to normalcy.
By international law, the detainees are spies -- or worse. Summary execution is the most humane possible outcome. Felons are a domestic matter.
Ha ha, maybe he should marry that Huffington woman, she's an expert.
"...the use of unmuzzled dogs to terrify detainees long before Abu Ghraib occurred..." NOT TORTURE!
He hasnt been a "conservative" since '03. He does like to advertise for male sex partners (tops, specifically) on the internet, though, in case anyone cares.
Huh?!? Sez who? We have admitted that many of the detainees were innocents picked up in dragnets, or turned in by unscrupulous informants (rival clans, etc.)!
Andy Andy Andy. What a shame that you have to insist on blaming a whole country for the actions a few. Could you possibly have an agenda?
How does he qualify as a conservative?
More British bullsh*t. Did I miss anything?
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Sez the Geneva Conventions and the Rules of War.
Not an atrocity bump!
Replacement nominee bump!
If the men and women who tortured and abused and murdered at Abu Ghraib
NO murder occurred at Abu Ghraib...no one ever said they murdered anyone...and actions there did not constitute "torture" in the sense of what occurred there under Saddam Hussein. Abu Ghraib was bad, BUT not torture.
actually, Andrew's ticked that W jumped into the homosexual marriage issue, so decided to attack him on Abu Gharib
With Andrew Sullivan around, you really need someone protecting your backside.
Good point. Sullivan probably disliked Clinton for his "Don't ask, don't tell" policy.
Sullivan's been out of his freakin' mind for years now. This comes as no suprise.
I do not this jerks reputation. I do know from what I read here that he is full of sheite.
Did I miss a meeting..who was murdered at Abu Ghraib???
Andrew Sullivan is no conservative.
Naw, he's been very liberal and anti-Bush for a few years now.
Andrew Sullivan eats ----.
I agree. I think his earlier support for the war probably had a lot to do with his being against Islam's view of homosexuality. Like Christopher Hitchens, he just doesn't like traditional religious belief, and so supported the war.
True. But a lot of freepers couldn't praise him enough when he was supporting the Iraq invasion. Never mind that he's a liberal pervert - freepers were calling him a "conservative" because he supported an invasion that Hillary also supports. Meanwhile, genuine small-government conservatives like myself - a Goldwater-Reagan conservative of 40 years standing - were blasted as "liberals" or "leftists" because we questioned the need for the invasion of Iraq.
Andrew Sullivan was a MSM wetdream of what they wanted a conservative to be. They got a kick out of balancing their panels with Sullivan as a conservative when his homosexuality was an anthema to 99 per cent of conservatives. But he is so misanthropic that even the MSM has seemed to stop giving him face time on the tube. His time to do a David Brock may be near. I wonder if Hillary has anyone on her staff that Andy can fall in love with.
Does anyone believe that after 9/11 we weren't going to, at some level, get down in the dirt and take it to these monsters?
Yes we must do our best to uphold and represent our ideals, but war is a dirty business and Andrew really is behaving like an over the top queen.
They killed thousands of innocent Americans. Whatever it takes to prevent that from happening again.
cognitative dissonance bump