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US-Russia relations deteriorating sharply, experts warn
The Financial Times ^ | June 7 2006 03:00 | Guy Dinmore

Posted on 06/06/2006 11:22:15 PM PDT by vertolet

Relations between the US and Russia are deteriorating badly and there is a danger of conflict in the flashpoints of the south Caucasus, according to senior former officials and corporate leaders advising the EastWest Institute (EWI).

EWI board members at the think-tank's annual meeting in Charleston were almost unanimous in calling for moves to prevent what one called an emerging "cold peace" between the US and Russia.

John Mroz, founder and president of EWI, called the deterioration worrisome. He placed the trend in the context of growing distrust between the major powers, including China, with the world in a state of transition between globalised and marginalised societies "no longer on automatic pilot moving towards a market-centric world".

This had resulted in the rise of ethnic and nationalist identities, with growing numbers seeing globalisation threatening their cultures and religion.

Western societies were also losing their moral authority, he said, citing the example of the reported massacre of Iraqi civilians by US troops in Haditha which would inflict "enormous damage" on the US.

Several speakers - who under EWU guidelines spoke on condition of anonymity - expressed concerns that "populist" presidents in Taiwan and Georgia risked overplaying their nationalist hands and triggering military incidents or conflict between the US and China, and the US and Russia.

With Montenegro newly independent, and Kosovo on the way to statehood, the dangers of domino-style conflict were rising in the breakaway, Russian-backed enclaves of Abkhazia and South Ossetia in Georgia.

"Georgia is an alarming situation and worse than thought," said one former official.

"The mood is ugly and getting uglier," said a corporate executive on the state of US-Russia ties.

Noting that every declared US presidential candidate was "bashing Russia", one speaker predicted a worsening trend as both countries headed towards elections in 2008.

Established in 1980, EWI describes itself as a "do-tank", working mostly behind the scenes directly with governments to address global security concerns. In the mid-80s it arranged "non-meetings" of senior US and Soviet defence officials in Budapest to discuss confidence-building measures.

Under a new initiative, Germany has seconded Ortwin Hennig, a senior official dealing in conflict prevention, to EWI to head a task force on US-Russia relations. Washington and Moscow are also each appointing a senior diplomat to focus on the south Caucasus. EWI is working with diplomats from all sides preparing for the G8 summit in St Petersburg next month.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Politics/Elections; Russia; US: Washington
KEYWORDS: antiamericanaxis; blather; bs; chicoms; china; coldwar2; communism; communists; concern; cpsu; drivel; evilempire; ewi; georgia; kgb; kprf; politics; putin; russia; soviets; sovietunion; usa; ussr; wah; worry
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1 posted on 06/06/2006 11:22:20 PM PDT by vertolet
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To: vertolet

This almost isn't worth responding to. A group of high hats overcome with concern and worries and the sky falling take it upon themselves to wedge in-between world powers... wait no.

A group of high hats wedge in-between a world power and a country with rusting weapons to keep us from upsetting the little guy.

Sorry, I don't buy any of it. Sounds like more whining from the "I'm concerned" crowd.


2 posted on 06/06/2006 11:32:33 PM PDT by TheZMan (Knives, guns, and lots of ammo. Ok! The house is safe. Now onto the yard. Mines!)
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To: TheZMan

On second thought...

What do you do when you're losing the legislature, courts, mayors, governors, presidency, talk radio, the media, and so forth?

You form special interest groups that no one ever hears nor cares about.


3 posted on 06/06/2006 11:34:39 PM PDT by TheZMan (Knives, guns, and lots of ammo. Ok! The house is safe. Now onto the yard. Mines!)
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To: vertolet
"Western societies were also losing their moral authority, he said, citing the example of the reported massacre of Iraqi civilians by US troops in Haditha which would inflict "enormous damage" on the US."

Oh yes, this is the cause of it all.

(Rolleyes)
4 posted on 06/06/2006 11:37:27 PM PDT by headstamp (Nothing lasts forever, Unless it does.)
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To: vertolet

What? Russia is not our friend?? I am shocked, shocked, I tell you!


5 posted on 06/06/2006 11:37:40 PM PDT by ozzymandus
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To: vertolet

Now is as good a time as any over the past 50 years. Advantage is America's.


6 posted on 06/06/2006 11:42:52 PM PDT by Pro-Bush (A nation without borders is not a nation." president Reagan)
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To: vertolet

anymore it seems these geo-political commentators are nothing more than celebrated gossips on the phone all day with their girlfriends.


7 posted on 06/06/2006 11:46:18 PM PDT by GodfearingTexan
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To: vertolet

More "sky is falling" crap from another "independent" non-profit?


8 posted on 06/06/2006 11:46:57 PM PDT by zarf (John Edwards is the most annoying person in America.)
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To: vertolet
John Mroz, founder and president of EWI,

What's this guy's political affiliation and to whom has he donated moolah?

9 posted on 06/06/2006 11:48:09 PM PDT by zarf (John Edwards is the most annoying person in America.)
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To: vertolet
Cry me a friggin river...

The only thing Russia exports to the U.S. is slutty, manipulative ex-prostitutes who find a sucker to marry them and bring them into the country.

10 posted on 06/06/2006 11:48:30 PM PDT by Clemenza (The CFR ate my bilderburgers! Time to call for a trilateral commission to investigate!)
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To: TheZMan

Russia was never our friend. Cheney just called a spade a spade and the Russkies had a hissy-fit. What, did they expect the U.S. to be all lovey-dovey with them after the Cold War?


11 posted on 06/06/2006 11:49:33 PM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist (Conservatism is moderate, it is the center, it is the middle of the road)
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To: vertolet

Financial Times aka Chicken Little : "The sky is falling..The Sky is falling"

Who writes this rubbish anyway?


12 posted on 06/06/2006 11:50:29 PM PDT by Jameison
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To: Clemenza
The only thing Russia exports to the U.S. is slutty, manipulative ex-prostitutes who find a sucker to marry them and bring them into the country.

Now, now...Russian & Ukraine women are beautiful and will give American women a run for their money.

13 posted on 06/06/2006 11:51:33 PM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist (Conservatism is moderate, it is the center, it is the middle of the road)
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To: TheZMan
I think Americans genuinely like Russians and I think Russians genuinely like Americans....Russians are playing hockey and tennis here and there are lots and lots of legal immigrants which means that there are lots of extended families back in Russia.....

the world is changing no matter what the politicos mess up.....

who ever thought back in 1945 that we would be close allies with Japan and have Japanese baseball players in star roles.....

14 posted on 06/06/2006 11:52:20 PM PDT by cherry (.)
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To: cherry

"I think Americans genuinely like Russians and I think Russians genuinely like Americans...."

Yep.
But try telling that to the moronic Financial Times.
For these suckers, anything to bash President Bush will do.


15 posted on 06/06/2006 11:56:27 PM PDT by Jameison
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
Yes, and they will take ALL OF YOUR MONEY! The most whorish and manipulative women on earth.

Ukranian women aren't as evil as Russian women. Both, however, DO NOT AGE WELL.

16 posted on 06/07/2006 12:11:55 AM PDT by Clemenza (The CFR ate my bilderburgers! Time to call for a trilateral commission to investigate!)
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To: Clemenza
Yes, and they will take ALL OF YOUR MONEY! The most whorish and manipulative women on earth.

LOL! Have you been drinking?

I'm sure most American women are pure as the driven snow too, right?

17 posted on 06/07/2006 12:26:52 AM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist (Conservatism is moderate, it is the center, it is the middle of the road)
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To: TheZMan

Excellent analysis. More Chicken Little crap from the handwringers. We should be wary of both the Russians and China, but these are for the most part civilized societies. The most eminent threats lie in the radical islamist states that have oil and are now obtaining nuclear weapons. The concept of mutually assured destruction is null and void with these madmen.


18 posted on 06/07/2006 12:38:26 AM PDT by ChinaThreat (s)
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To: vertolet
"...according to senior former officials and corporate leaders advising the EastWest Institute"

Uh-huh, and just who are these people, might I ask?...

"Several speakers - who under EWU guidelines spoke on condition of anonymity"

Anonymity? WTF??

""Georgia is an alarming situation and worse than thought," said one former official."

Uh-huh, that sounds... alarming and even worse!... Oh no!

""The mood is ugly and getting uglier," said a corporate executive on the state of US-Russia ties."

Eww now that's ugly... But is it Helen Thomas ugly?... that is the question!

""Noting that every declared US presidential candidate was "bashing Russia""

No no please don't bash Russia, Let's bash the Bush Administration instead!

"Established in 1980, EWI describes itself as a "do-tank""

EWI seems more like a doo-doo tank to me.
19 posted on 06/07/2006 12:44:33 AM PDT by Berlin_Freeper (ETERNAL SHAME on the Treasonous and Immoral Democrats!)
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To: Jameison
"Who writes this rubbish anyway?"

The Financial Times Limited is in London, UK. ...hope that helps.
20 posted on 06/07/2006 1:20:44 AM PDT by familyop ("Either you're with us, or your with the terrorists." --President Bush)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

Cheney just called a spade a spade and the Russkies had a hissy-fit. ===

Cheney is extreme hypocrite. HE bashed Russia then next day he goes to Kazakhstan to praise Nazarbaev who sits in president chair 4th term continuously. Does Nazarbaev "democracy" is better then russian? Russia doesn't have the president who rules for 15 years and no stop.

Whole Russia sees that then people realizes that Cheney is just clown.


21 posted on 06/07/2006 1:34:58 AM PDT by RusIvan
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To: RusIvan

"Cheney is extreme hypocrite. HE bashed Russia then next day he goes to Kazakhstan to praise Nazarbaev who sits in president chair 4th term continuously. Does Nazarbaev "democracy" is better then russian? Russia doesn't have the president who rules for 15 years and no stop."

I think the jury is still out on Putin as to how long he intends to stay in office. The article made no mention of the deterioration in US-Russian relations that have occurred since Putin came to power:
1. Putin's role in blocking UN action on Iraq
2. Russia's role in cleaning Iraq of WMDs prior to the allied invasion
3. Russian sale of sophisticated naval weaponry to China
4. Efforts to overthrow democratic movements in the Ukraine and elsewhere.
5. Kazakhstan was an ally in the Iraq invasion and is also strategically important.

Cheney was promoting US national interests which is the purpose of foreign policy. You call Cheney a clown. But he has liberated more people and helped foster democracy in more countries than Putin ever will.


22 posted on 06/07/2006 3:33:52 AM PDT by Roy Tucker
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Comment #23 Removed by Moderator

To: vertolet

Read the Bible. This isn't news.


24 posted on 06/07/2006 3:41:12 AM PDT by Frwy (Eternity without Jesus is a hell-of-a long time.)
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To: Clemenza
Both, however, DO NOT AGE WELL.

Well, on that score, you're right. But ANY woman might take half your money.

(Thank God, sincerely, that I've got a good one!)

25 posted on 06/07/2006 3:44:12 AM PDT by ovrtaxt (Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie!'... till you can find a rock.)
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To: ovrtaxt

What's the old joke? "My wife made me a millionaire. I used to have two million."


26 posted on 06/07/2006 3:54:26 AM PDT by Roy Tucker
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To: vertolet
US-Russia relations deteriorating sharply, experts warn

In other related news, the sun rose in the east this morning, and is expected to cross the US from New York to Hawaii before sinking into the western sky later this evening.
27 posted on 06/07/2006 4:00:21 AM PDT by DustyMoment (FloriDUH - proud inventors of pregnant/hanging chads and judicide!!)
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To: Necronomicon
"First, you don't bash a nation who still has the potential to nuke you back to stone age"

You don't?
Iran, Bolivia, Cuba, the EU countries et al do that to the US all the time.
And..we used to have stronger words for the Rusians (Soviets) even during the cold war, when we were even more likely to start pummeling each other.


"Second, it isn't Russia who's pursuing a systematic policy of implementing military bases and supporting pro-Russian politicians in traditional US influence zones but the inverse"
The Russians have been pretty cozy with an Iran that is determined to get nuclear weapons, primarily to use against Israel and America.
And Iran to be a strong US influence zone.
And just in the past few months, the Russians have sold even more deadly weapons to America-hater, Hugo Chavez, right in our backyard.


"Third, the privilege to care about your own nation interests isn't an exclusivity of US conservatives. "

But we of course retain the right to care about our own country, same as the Russians do.
28 posted on 06/07/2006 4:42:24 AM PDT by Jameison
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To: vertolet

Our policy of blowing off Russia is bone-headed, if you ask me.


29 posted on 06/07/2006 5:01:54 AM PDT by Brilliant
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist; Clemenza

Stereotyping!

My Stepson married a wonderful young woman from Minsk, Belarus. She is not manipulative or an ex-prostitute. Her values are as solid as any American woman, perhaps stronger. Also, she hasn't been tainted by the American feminist movement. Something that cannot be said for many young American women.


30 posted on 06/07/2006 5:11:05 AM PDT by GeorgefromGeorgia
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To: vertolet
Western societies were also losing their moral authority, he said, citing the example of the reported massacre of Iraqi civilians by US troops in Haditha which would inflict "enormous damage" on the US.

Very old, very tired propagandist trick: the alleged massacre allegedly happened in November, and was reported by one and only diaper-head "stringer" who just happened to leave the American jail-house... and he reported it by producing staged interviews with the alleged witnesses of the alleged massacre.

Nevertheless, the MSM and all the Al-Qaeda cheerleaders from the Left speak about this bullsh*t as if there is hard evidence of it, as if it were fact.

Only those who want to believe this, would.

As to the Russian (KGB rulers) being enemies of America, what's the news?

31 posted on 06/07/2006 5:13:03 AM PDT by Neophyte (Nazis, Communists, Islamists... what the heck is the difference?)
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To: RusIvan
Does Nazarbaev "democracy" is better then russian?

This question is irrelevant to the topic as well as Cheney's visit to Kazakhstan and what he did or didn't say there - and YOU KNOW THAT, Vanjusha!

Bulsh*tting again?

32 posted on 06/07/2006 5:21:43 AM PDT by Neophyte (Nazis, Communists, Islamists... what the heck is the difference?)
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To: Clemenza
If you can't get along with Russian women, there is obviously something wrong with YOU.

However, in the interests of improving your chances of finding love on Saturday night, I am enclosing the following information:

The countries with the lowest per capita GDP, as recorded by the International Monetary Fund.

Try getting your next mail-order bride from one of them.

171 Rwanda 242
172 Afghanistan 228
173 Sierra Leone 219
174 Eritrea 206
175 Guinea-Bissau 181
176 Malawi 161
177 Ethiopia 153
178 Democratic Republic of the Congo 119
179 Burundi 107
180 Myanmar 97

33 posted on 06/07/2006 5:23:39 AM PDT by Cheburashka (World's only Spatula City certified spatula repair and maintenance specialist!!!)
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To: Brilliant
Our policy of blowing off Russia is bone-headed, if you ask me.



I am generally favorably disposed towards Russia, but at this time I think it is the policy of the present government of Russia to blow off the U.S., rather than the reverse.
34 posted on 06/07/2006 5:29:20 AM PDT by Cheburashka (World's only Spatula City certified spatula repair and maintenance specialist!!!)
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To: Cheburashka

I think it's a mutual blow off. The problem is that we have the most to lose by it since they have vast natural resources, and are in position either to help us, or to help our enemies. If the situation is going to change, someone has got to take the first step, and unfortunately, our government has decided that it is going to stand on "principle" rather than trying to do something constructive. The result is that the Russians are helping our enemies instead of us. In the long run, that is going to come back to haunt us. Looking 20 years down the road, it may be that we are snatching defeat from the jaws of victory in the Cold War.


35 posted on 06/07/2006 5:45:16 AM PDT by Brilliant
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Comment #36 Removed by Moderator

To: Brilliant
think it's a mutual blow off...If the situation is going to change, someone has got to take the first step,...



I disagree, I feel President Bush has made a real effort to open up relations with President Putin, and has been ignored, slapped down for his efforts. At some point you have to accept that the other guy has his agenda and that it doesn't include getting along.
I hope that the President after Putin will be more open to working with us.
Unlike many here at Free Republic, I have long since moved on from the Cold War, I realize that Russia is not the Soviet Union, and see opportunities there. But many Russians have not accepted that the dissolution of the Soviet Union and independence to the other former Soviet states means that Russia will not have the same importance in the world.
Some Russian are concentrating on restoring the Union (without the stupid ideology, of course). It's called looking to the past, and it means you're backing into the future, and when you back into the future, you don't see what's coming.
Putin is backing into the future.
37 posted on 06/07/2006 6:35:06 AM PDT by Cheburashka (World's only Spatula City certified spatula repair and maintenance specialist!!!)
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To: ChinaThreat

Even North Korea is civilized compared to Iran.


38 posted on 06/07/2006 1:11:07 PM PDT by Thunder90
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To: Cheburashka
I will trust Russia when it does these things:

1. Admit the responsibility for the crimes of communism and allow crimes against humanity trials to proceed, even if the defendants are dead.

2. Stop the sale of weapons to our enemies

3. Destroy all communist symbols, no matter how insignaficant, unless they are placed in a museum
4. Ban the KPRF and all Soviet and Mafia officials from running.
5. Free and fair elections and a free press.
39 posted on 06/07/2006 1:14:37 PM PDT by Thunder90
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To: lizol; Lukasz; strategofr; GSlob; spanalot; Thunder90; Tailgunner Joe; propertius; REactor; ...

PIng


40 posted on 06/07/2006 1:15:50 PM PDT by Thunder90
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
"I'm sure most American women are pure as the driven snow too, right?"

Absolutely! Just ask any of my ex-wives.
41 posted on 06/07/2006 1:23:36 PM PDT by dljordan
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To: Thunder90
1) When did the American trials for crimes against humanity for say, slavery, take place? Of course, all the participant's are dead, but by your logic, shouldn't they take place as well?

2) We reserve the right to sell weapons to anyone we choose, why should the Russians not have the same right? Of course, both we and the Russians have to take responsibility for who we sell to. But we have no right to dictate to the Russians, any more than they have a right to dictate to us.

3) For instance, medals? Worn by World War II veterans, who won them by their valor? You think that's going to fly? How about if they demand we prohibit all Confederate flags except in museums?

4) We don't ban the CPUSA from running in our elections, why should they ban the RKFP? As for criminals, if they are convicted they shouldn't be able to run. But we also seem to be moving away from the concept that criminals shouldn't be allowed to vote, how long before we let them run for office?
And how about the detail of actually convicting them for crimes before they lose their civil rights, or does that just go by the wayside?

5) Free and fair elections? The Russians might just point at Chicago and laugh. As for the press, is their press any less free than ours?

You don't have to trust the Russians, that's your choice. And I recognize that they and their actions will be in what they perceive to be their self-interest.

If we're going to start dictating to anyone how they run their country, let's start with someone wimpy, like the French, and see how that works out first.
42 posted on 06/07/2006 3:14:44 PM PDT by Cheburashka (World's only Spatula City certified spatula repair and maintenance specialist!!!)
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To: vertolet

"Relations between the US and Russia are deteriorating badly..."

Good. Relations should deteriorate, with Russia supplying nuclear power plants and medium-range ballistic missiles to Iran, bringing Hamas to Moscow for meetings, using the guy whom just stepped down as chancellor of Germany as an errand boy in Gazprom (and don't think their influence over Hillary isn't just as great)---there should be a deterioration of relations with Russia.

"...and there is a danger of conflict in the flashpoints of the south Caucasus, according to senior former officials and corporate leaders advising the EastWest Institute (EWI)."

This part I don't like. I feel US power is overextended on the periphery of Russia and we will be rolled back.


43 posted on 06/07/2006 3:20:54 PM PDT by strategofr (H-mentor:"pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it"Hillary's Secret War,Poe,p.198)
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To: Cheburashka

"When did the American trials for crimes against humanity for say, slavery, take place?"

How dare you compare slavery to the genocide of 100 million in the last century.

How dare you compare Chicago politics to Russia which tried to kill the Pres of Ukraine several times - and which has killed political opponents within its own borders by the MILLIONS.

You are beneath contempt.


44 posted on 06/07/2006 6:25:46 PM PDT by spanalot
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To: Necronomicon
Finally, I don't know in which bubble you live for dropping in the same bowl the EU and Iran or Cuba. Accept that the relation between a the US and the EU is a circumstantial one and purely based on trade. Values are diverging too much lately to do better. Hell, if even in the UK, most people view China more favorably than the US ! I have the impression that many conservatives have no idea how anti-american the UK has turned (and it was your best ally) since the staunch pro-US stance of Tony Blair acts as smokescreen hiding UK's popular reality. Go on the streets in Paris and London, and you might well come back thinking that the reality is the inverse you expected...

Critics of the US would therefore seem to be violating your first immutable rule of international relations which is never bash someone who can nuke you back to the stone age. Or does that rule only apply to the US?

Also, who cares if a bunch of leftists in Europe are behind the curve? They were behind the curve in the Cold War as well working to undermine US efforts to defeat Communism. I guess they violated your fourth principle as well which is never, ever underestimate your opponents.

45 posted on 06/07/2006 8:31:10 PM PDT by Roy Tucker
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To: vertolet

I think that the United States has legitimate concerns with the behavior of the Putin regime-- which is trying to carve parts off of Georgia simply because it disapproves of Georgia's new government. Moreover, the Putin regime is reasserting a socialistic style of economic management-- consolidating ever more industries under state control. The U.S. should actively encourage economic liberalization and individual liberty in Russia and neighboring countries-- which means confronting the Putin regime diplomatically and issuing ultimata when necessary. It also means protecting persecuted entrepreneurs and dissenters when possible.

I am
G. Stolyarov II
http://www.panasianbiz.com


46 posted on 06/07/2006 9:00:11 PM PDT by G. Stolyarov II (http://rationalargumentator.com)
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To: Roy Tucker

5. Kazakhstan was an ally in the Iraq invasion and is also strategically important. ==

So it wasn't about no "democracy" buyt about american interests. It is what I thought in first place.


47 posted on 06/08/2006 12:17:11 AM PDT by RusIvan
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To: Neophyte

Does Nazarbaev "democracy" is better then russian?
This question is irrelevant to the topic as well as Cheney's visit to Kazakhstan and what he did or didn't say there - and YOU KNOW THAT, Vanjusha!==

Irrelevent are you sure?:) Guy (Cheney) with highest pahos talked about how Russia didn't support "democracy". Then next days he goes to Kazkhstan and praises its president who is like mideival Khan rules there.

Whole Russia with interest watched how Cheney's words about democarcy goes to toilet just on next days. Russian TV and press showed Cheney visits and his words said in Kazakhstan.

Cheney embarrased America wholesale in eyes of even pro-american liberals who left in Russia.
After his this trick NO one can tell now that America is serious on democracy. But everyone tells that America uses the democracy case very selective. SO means russian people will not trust sincerity no american leaders anymore. That is what Cheney did.

He just helped Putin to paint America as selfish hypocrite who uses the "democracy" word just to bash Russia and conviniently overlook this "democracy" if it is in american interests.

P.S. He did even more. He "killed" politically Vlad Rizhkov who was the political leader of russian democrates. Today everyone asks him how much Cheney payed him to meet him:).


48 posted on 06/08/2006 12:27:20 AM PDT by RusIvan
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To: G. Stolyarov II

I think that the United States has legitimate concerns with the behavior of the Putin regime-- which is trying to carve parts off of Georgia simply because it disapproves of Georgia's new government. ==

Those parts of Georgia became Gorgia under order of Josef Stalin. In 1992-3 those pats liked to become free of Georgia. Then Gorgia waged 2 wars to bring them bakc but failed both. Today Georgia doesn't rule Abkhazia and S.Osetia.

So if we accept Montenegro and Kosovo independence from Serbia then we should accept same independence Abkhazia and S.Osetia from Georgia. If we are for fair and equality of cause. If we selfish hypocrites then not.


49 posted on 06/08/2006 12:33:01 AM PDT by RusIvan
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To: spanalot

How dare you compare slavery to the genocide of 100 million in the last century.

How dare you compare Chicago politics to Russia which tried to kill the Pres of Ukraine several times - and which has killed political opponents within its own borders by the MILLIONS. ==

Spanalot again with your usual bull*:). You know that 100 millions is not that dramatic tell 1 billion next time:). Housewives will be impressed:).


50 posted on 06/08/2006 12:35:36 AM PDT by RusIvan
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