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Pollution From Chinese Coal Casts a Global Shadow
NY Times ^ | 6/11/06 | KEITH BRADSHER and DAVID BARBOZA

Posted on 06/11/2006 11:09:19 AM PDT by ProtectOurFreedom

One of China's lesser-known exports is a dangerous brew of soot, toxic chemicals and climate-changing gases from the smokestacks of coal-burning power plants.

In early April, a dense cloud of pollutants over Northern China sailed to nearby Seoul, sweeping along dust and desert sand before wafting across the Pacific.

The increase in global-warming gases from China's coal use will probably exceed that for all industrialized countries combined over the next 25 years, surpassing by five times the reduction in such emissions that the Kyoto Protocol seeks.

Already, China uses more coal than the United States, the European Union and Japan combined. And it has increased coal consumption 14 percent in each of the past two years in the broadest industrialization ever. Every week to 10 days, another coal-fired power plant opens somewhere in China that is big enough to serve all the households in Dallas or San Diego.

To make a big improvement in emissions of global-warming gases and other pollutants, the country must install the most modern equipment...

... Chinese utilities have in the past preferred to buy cheap but often-antiquated equipment from well connected domestic suppliers instead of importing costlier gear from the West.

The Chinese government has been reluctant to approve the extra spending. Asking customers to shoulder the bill would set back the government's efforts to protect consumers from inflation and to create jobs and social stability.

But each year China defers buying advanced technology, older equipment goes into scores of new coal-fired plants with a lifespan of up to 75 years.

... China released 22.5 million tons of sulfur in 2004, more than twice the amount released in the United States, and a Chinese regulator estimated last autumn that emissions would reach 26 million tons for 2005. Acid rain now falls on 30 percent of China.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: acidrain; china; chinathreatensall; chokingsmoke; climatechange; coal; environment; globalwarming; hugepolluter; kyoto; leftoutofkyoto; pollution; sulphur
One-fifth the per-capita GDP of the US, but twice the sulphur emissions. Uses more coal than the U.S, Europe and Japan combined. Building new power plants without modern (or any) pollution control equipment.
1 posted on 06/11/2006 11:09:23 AM PDT by ProtectOurFreedom
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To: ProtectOurFreedom
Well, there it is. WE need to cut back OUR emissions, according to Algore.
2 posted on 06/11/2006 11:14:16 AM PDT by digger48
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To: ProtectOurFreedom
One-fifth the per-capita GDP of the US, but twice the sulphur emissions.

Alternative spin on the statistics is 4 times the population of the US but only twice the sulphur emissions.

3 posted on 06/11/2006 11:15:44 AM PDT by staytrue (Moonbat conservatives-those who would rather have the democrats win.)
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To: ProtectOurFreedom
And Americans are gullible enough to believe the lie that China & India demand is what's causing $70/bbl oil.

If they can't afford cleaner coal plants, they sure as hell aren't using $70 oil.

4 posted on 06/11/2006 11:21:41 AM PDT by TheOracleAtLilac
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To: staytrue

It's easy to have zero emissions if you are dirt poor and live in a pre-modern society. The correct way to look at it is the amount of energy consumed and pollution emitted per dollar of GDP output. The U.S. is the world leader in those metrics. The power and heavy industries get almost no credit for the hundreds of billions of dollars spent on pollution control and energy efficiency over the past 30 years.


5 posted on 06/11/2006 11:23:19 AM PDT by ProtectOurFreedom
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To: digger48
Well, there it is. WE need to cut back OUR emissions, according to Algore.

Al Gore is of course Wrong. But we all knew that.

The U.S. has some of the cleanest air in the world. We can spend a ton of money to get the U.S. to 99.9% or we can pressure countries like China that are not even close and creating most of the worlds pollution.

Spend billions on .001% of the problem or those same billions on 50% of the problem worldwide.

6 posted on 06/11/2006 11:23:28 AM PDT by BJungNan
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To: ProtectOurFreedom
and China is exempt as a developing nation from the Kyoto Protocols IIRC.
7 posted on 06/11/2006 11:24:34 AM PDT by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country. What else needs to be said?)
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To: staytrue
Alternative spin on the statistics is 4 times the population of the US but only twice the sulphur emissions.

How about no spin and simply calculate the level of pollution coming from each country. On that measure, China puts out 100 times more pollution.

8 posted on 06/11/2006 11:25:08 AM PDT by BJungNan
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To: BJungNan
China that are not even close and creating most of the worlds pollution.

fyi, WE'RE NUMBER ONE--in carbon dioxide emmisions.

9 posted on 06/11/2006 11:29:08 AM PDT by staytrue (Moonbat conservatives-those who would rather have the democrats win.)
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To: digger48

For all the worries about pollution from China, international climate experts are loath to criticize the country without pointing out that the average American still consumes more energy and is responsible for the release of 10 times as much carbon dioxide as the average Chinese.

I was waiting for this..


10 posted on 06/11/2006 11:29:21 AM PDT by italianquaker (Democrats and media can't win elections at least they can win their phony polls.)
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To: SandRat
and China is exempt as a developing nation from the Kyoto Protocols IIRC.

And when the US and Europe were developing nations, they were also exempt from the Kyoto Protocols IIRC.

11 posted on 06/11/2006 11:31:24 AM PDT by staytrue (Moonbat conservatives-those who would rather have the democrats win.)
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To: ProtectOurFreedom
I think there is a basic flaw in the assumption about carbon dioxide. Recent research seems to indicate that the oceans absorb a lot of it, and that is not reflected in current studies. The downside is that the oceans become more acidic. (But that's not good either!)

Another factor left out is that carbon dioxide enhances plant growth, and is absorbed in this process.

So, we really don't know what effect the carbon dioxide will have on global warming, and so most of the studies concerning global warming are: Pure Speculation.
12 posted on 06/11/2006 11:35:11 AM PDT by RonHolzwarth ("History repeats itself - first as tragedy, then as farce" - Karl Marx)
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To: ProtectOurFreedom
This, and the undiscussed pollution India is also responsible for dumping into the atmosphere, is why the Kyoto Treaty was ill-conceived from the start. Perhaps some of you have heard of the so-called "Yellow Cloud" that can be seen from satellite photos over India and, especially China? And Kyoto gave them a pass.

For years the UN had been attempting to implement some kind of "transfer of wealth" program to get the economically-advanced nations to fund development in the rest of the world without success. But in the Kyoto Treaty the entirety of the responsibility for reducing emissions, with its attendant costs, fell upon the developed world which amounted to a use of an environmental issue as a tool to implement that transfer of wealth without calling it that. This is why the Clinton Administration made certain that the Kyoto negotiations were done in secret, because the program attempted in Kyoto could never have passed muster in the open.
13 posted on 06/11/2006 11:37:54 AM PDT by StJacques
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To: staytrue
WE'RE NUMBER ONE--in carbon dioxide emmisions

Most CO2 is emitted by Nature.

14 posted on 06/11/2006 11:40:59 AM PDT by RightWhale (Off touch and out of base)
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To: staytrue

I didn't know the Kyoto Protocols exisited when US and Europe were developing nations? Gee,.... learn something new everyday.


15 posted on 06/11/2006 11:49:46 AM PDT by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country. What else needs to be said?)
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To: ProtectOurFreedom
Anyone who's been there knows this is true. Heck, throughout Asia the use of leaded fuel alone is enough to knock you out in the cities. I was floored in the 90's watching people on the streets, and mopeds, of Taipei wearing surgical masks to help them breathe. This was pre-SARS. It was pollution not disease related.

All our Greenies and humongous ex-politicians should converge in California. Their the former can put on inflatable rubber duck inner tubes and start paddling West. The latter, needing no tube for buoyancy, can lead the way. Should be no problem since global warming will assure a comfortable journey. When they get there the Chinese will tell them "You can't eat trees" and jail them.

Since they only get money and media being a pain in the arse in developed nations, and since they are all incredibly lazy and risk aversive, they'll simply hang out here and preach to the already converted.

LBT
-=-=-


16 posted on 06/11/2006 12:11:22 PM PDT by LiberalBassTurds (9/11 exposed Islamokazis , 9/12 exposed Liberals)
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To: ProtectOurFreedom

wait till the see the algore movie

that'll clean them up


17 posted on 06/11/2006 12:23:45 PM PDT by samtheman
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To: SandRat

you made my point in post 15

when the US was a developing nation we dumped all kinds of goop in the air, now the china is developing, you want to hinder them by disallowing what the US and Europe had.


18 posted on 06/11/2006 12:37:23 PM PDT by staytrue (Moonbat conservatives-those who would rather have the democrats win.)
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To: ProtectOurFreedom
It should not matter on percentages, in this day and age there is no excuse for not using available technology to stop the black rain, my girlfriend says in Beijing the Sky is black.
19 posted on 06/11/2006 12:40:44 PM PDT by roverman2K6
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To: staytrue
Let's try this again:

Q: Did the Kyoto Protocols Exist when the US and Europe were developing Nations?

A: No.

Q: Did anyone care or have responsible, resonable, realistic scientific knowledge of the environment at that time?

A: No

Q: Was China specifically exempted from the very protocols that they helped draft?

A: Yes

Q: Was it known at the time of the drafting of the protocols that China was one of the biggest violators of the goals and objectives of the protocols and would continue to violate in even greater proportions?

A: Yes

Statement: The Protocols are a bad joke like the rest of the Watermelon agenda.

Definition: - WATERMELON - Green on the outside but RED on the inside.
20 posted on 06/11/2006 12:49:56 PM PDT by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country. What else needs to be said?)
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To: italianquaker

Wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that they are dirt poor and there's like 2 billion of them


21 posted on 06/11/2006 12:57:33 PM PDT by digger48
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To: digger48

thats why kyoto is really a joke


22 posted on 06/11/2006 1:08:04 PM PDT by italianquaker (Democrats and media can't win elections at least they can win their phony polls.)
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To: staytrue
fyi, WE'RE NUMBER ONE--in carbon dioxide emmisions.

fyi, WE'RE NUMBER ONE--in production of goods and services. Ya think there might be a correlation there? Nah. prob'ly not. To you anyway.

23 posted on 06/11/2006 1:54:56 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: ProtectOurFreedom

I've seen the enhanced satellite photos show the pollution cloud reach Norway. As to it's effects on the US, it's partially denuding the forests in Oregon/Washington/NoCal/BC and one study suggests it's killing the fisheries off the BC coast.


24 posted on 06/11/2006 2:04:14 PM PDT by JerseyHighlander
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To: hinckley buzzard
fyi, WE'RE NUMBER ONE--in carbon dioxide emmisions.

fyi, WE'RE NUMBER ONE--in production of goods and services. Ya think there might be a correlation there? Nah. prob'ly not. To you anyway.

Another way to put that is: "If the rest of the World attempts to live the way we do in the US, the concentration of atmospheric CO2 is going to be a lot higher, and increase a lot faster, than today."

25 posted on 06/11/2006 2:26:28 PM PDT by M. Dodge Thomas (More of the same, only with more zeros at the end.)
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To: TheOracleAtLilac
If they can't afford cleaner coal plants, they sure as hell aren't using $70 oil.

Apples and oranges: the coal is used mostly to spin generators, the oil mostly to fuel vehicles.

26 posted on 06/11/2006 2:36:03 PM PDT by M. Dodge Thomas (More of the same, only with more zeros at the end.)
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To: ProtectOurFreedom
But isn't Al Gore saying China is solving this problem.

If global warming destroys the Earth, it's Bruce Springsteen's fault.

Oh yeah, Jane Fonda's too.

27 posted on 06/11/2006 2:37:31 PM PDT by Tribune7
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To: M. Dodge Thomas
it's about spending & I stand by my point....The Chinese aren't paying $70/bbl for oil & we're being lied to
28 posted on 06/11/2006 2:40:38 PM PDT by TheOracleAtLilac
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To: TheOracleAtLilac
Serious questions, not trying to be difficult:

The Chinese aren't paying $70/bbl for oil

Do you believe that they are not paying $70/bbl, they are not buying the reported quantities, or both?

In either case, what's your source?

& we're being lied to

By whom, and how... the world oil market is pretty transparent at both the production and distribution levels.

29 posted on 06/11/2006 3:31:39 PM PDT by M. Dodge Thomas (More of the same, only with more zeros at the end.)
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To: M. Dodge Thomas
No source - just common sense.

The U.S. can't afford $70/bbl oil - how can backwater China ?

China has "investments" in many countries which maybe bartered for oil &/or it's entirely possible that China purchased futures a while back.

30 posted on 06/11/2006 3:38:36 PM PDT by TheOracleAtLilac
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To: staytrue
when the US was a developing nation we dumped all kinds of goop in the air, now the china is developing, you want to hinder them by disallowing what the US and Europe had.

Your logic is pathetic. America and Europe polluted because it was expedient, but also because it was unknown to the world then the exact impact pollution would have on the world's ecosystem. The west learned through adversity the effects of uncontrolled pollution. China doesn't have that excuse. What happened 100-150 years ago involved new technologies that no one had any experience with. Yet you would excuse China, who has the benefit of American and European experience, from controlling known consequences of pollution solely for expediency's sake. China knows exactly what excessive pollution can do because of America's and Europe's past problems dealing with it.

Your hatred for America and the west is disgusting. If you find China so appealing, move there, and don't let the screen door hitcha where the good Lord splitcha. Buhbye!

31 posted on 06/11/2006 4:27:37 PM PDT by Surtur (Free Trade is NOT Fair Trade unless both economies are equivalent.)
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To: TheOracleAtLilac
China does get a break on price as it uses a higher percentage of higher sulpher "sour" oil, and that spread has been getting larger

overall, this might amount to a few dollars per barrel over their entire consumption, otherwise, they appear to be paying about what everyone else does.

The U.S. can't afford $70/bbl oil - how can backwater China ?

Chinese energy imports were around 50 billion last year. Do you suppose their 202 billion dollar trade surplus with the US might have helped finance them?

32 posted on 06/11/2006 4:31:27 PM PDT by M. Dodge Thomas (More of the same, only with more zeros at the end.)
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