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New glacier theory on Stonehenge
BBC News ^ | June 13, 2006

Posted on 06/13/2006 7:27:54 AM PDT by billorites

A geology team has contradicted claims that bluestones were dug by Bronze Age man from a west Wales quarry and carried 240 miles to build Stonehenge.

In a new twist, Open University geologists say the stones were in fact moved to Salisbury Plain by glaciers.

Last year archaeologists said the stones came from the Preseli Hills.

Recent research in the Oxford Journal of Archaeology suggests the stones were ripped from the ground and moved by glaciers during the Ice Age.

Geologists from the Open University first claimed in 1991 that the bluestones at one of Britain's best-known historic landmarks had not come from a quarry, but from different sources in the Preseli area.

The recent work was conducted by a team headed by Professor Olwen Williams-Thorpe, who said she and her colleagues had used geochemical analysis to trace the origins of axe heads found at Stonehenge and this backed up the original work.

There has been a great reluctance to allow facts to interfere with a good story
Dr Brian John

"We concluded that the small number of axes that are actually bluestone derive from several different outcrops within Preseli," she said.

"Axes found at or near Stonehenge are very likely to be from the same outcrops as the monoliths, and could even be made of left-over bits of the monoliths."

The research

Dr Brian John, a geomorphologist living in Pembrokeshire, said he always thought the idea that Bronze Age man had quarried the stones and then taken them so far "stretched credibility".

But he said the debate would go on until someone was able to prove beyond doubt what happened one way or the other.

"This is very exciting, and it moves the bluestone debate on from the fanciful and unscientific assertions of the past," he said.

"Much of the archaeology in recent years has been based upon the assumption that Bronze Age man had a reason for transporting bluestones all the way from west Wales to Stonehenge and the technical capacity to do it.

"That has been the ruling hypothesis, and there has been a great reluctance to allow facts to interfere with a good story.

"Glaciers may move very slowly, but they have an excellent record when it comes to the transport of large stones from one part of the country to another."



TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: archaeoastronomy; brianjohn; carngoedog; catastrophism; craigrhosyfelin; dolerite; dyfedelisgruffydd; glaciers; godsgravesglyphs; johndownes; lwenwilliamsthorpe; megaliths; neolithic; pembrokeshire; preselihills; rhosyfelin; rhyolite; stonehenge; wales
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To: Salamander
I have (had) a great-grandfather that was, indeed, eaten by hogs.. after an unfortunate spill into the pen..

However, it's not totally necessary to be a hillbilly to recognize the reference..
An incident that took place in the movie classic, "The Wizard Of Oz" explains the principle quite well..

41 posted on 06/13/2006 11:43:44 PM PDT by Drammach (Freedom... Not just a job, it's an adventure..)
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Here's a pertinent observation from the Archaeoblogster:

http://archaeoblog.blogspot.com/

"One would assume that there would be some sort of distribution of similar erratics outside of the procurement area that could be used to bolster this idea. OTOH, one would think that a bunch of large erratics would have been noticed by now since these things tend to frost-heave their way to the surface. Maybe they used all the big erratics in the area? Still, seems like a neat hypothesis that one could support in a number of ways."

Despite the disclaimer, the writer points out that there should be leftover stones which were never used -- where are they?


42 posted on 06/15/2006 9:03:39 AM PDT by SunkenCiv ("A father is a man who expects his son to be as good a man as he meant to be." -- Frank A. Clark)
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To: billorites; SunkenCiv; blam

Yeah, but go to this site and see this guy theory--and watch him move and set a 19,000 pound monolinth by himself alone using only sticks and stones.

http://www.cybersalt.org/content/view/1777/468/


43 posted on 12/07/2006 8:32:08 PM PST by wildbill
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To: wildbill

Thanks!


44 posted on 12/07/2006 9:56:07 PM PST by SunkenCiv (I last updated my profile on Thursday, November 16, 2006 https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: wildbill

also:

http://www.theforgottentechnology.com/


45 posted on 12/07/2006 10:03:07 PM PST by SunkenCiv (I last updated my profile on Thursday, November 16, 2006 https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: robertpaulsen
"Look, look. Look, this is what I was asked to build. Eighteen inches. Right here, it specified eighteen inches. I was given this napkin, I mean..."

"This one goes up to 11. It's one louder than 10."

46 posted on 12/07/2006 10:11:18 PM PST by Sideshow Bob
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http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1429888/posts
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1919690/posts


47 posted on 11/05/2007 10:07:56 AM PST by SunkenCiv (Profile updated Monday, October 22, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
Just updating the GGG info, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.


48 posted on 09/11/2011 6:20:49 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
Just updating the GGG info, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.


49 posted on 09/11/2011 6:21:46 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Covenantor; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; decimon; 1010RD; 21twelve; 24Karet; ...
Note: this topic is from 06/13/2006. Thanks billorites.
Here's a sort of update, thanks Covenantor!

50 posted on 12/16/2015 5:12:08 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Here's to the day the forensics people scrape what's left of Putin off the ceiling of his limo.)
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To: 75thOVI; Abathar; agrace; aimhigh; Alice in Wonderland; AndrewC; aragorn; aristotleman; ...
Note: this topic is from 06/13/2006. Thanks billorites.
Here's a sort of update, thanks Covenantor!

51 posted on 12/16/2015 5:14:27 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Here's to the day the forensics people scrape what's left of Putin off the ceiling of his limo.)
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To: SunkenCiv
I believe I read somewhere recently that the blue stones had been used previously in another structure in Wales and then moved and used in Stone Henge afterward.

Anyone else read that?

52 posted on 12/16/2015 6:35:16 PM PST by blam (Jeff Sessions For President)
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To: SunkenCiv

Please allow me to attempt to re-phrase the current proposition:

* the earlier archaeologists supposed that the bluestones came from Preseli Hills (in western Wales, across the Bristol Channel from the Salisbury Plain)

* the highest current elevation of the Preseli Hills is 1008’

* the new geological theory is that the bluestones were (largely, at any rate) moved from Preseli to somewhere close to or not very far from Salisbury Plain by glaciers during an ice age

* the earliest Ice Age was the Huronian Ice Age (2.4 to 2.1 billion years ago)

* the Preseli Hills could have been much higher than 1008’ 2.4 to 2.1 billion years ago

the article does not seem to say, but i think it might be not unreasonable to presume, that the new theory is that the bluestones were deposited on the peninsula on which the Salisbury Plain is located by ancient glaciers, thus obviating the need for boat transport of the bluestones across the Bristol Channel by neolithic people

I may well have missed or misunderstood something, and would welcome any corrections or clarifications (tia).


53 posted on 12/16/2015 6:35:58 PM PST by SteveH
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To: blam

We just had a topic about it, uh, at least, I hope so, anyway, it’ll be in the “stonehenge” keyword if so. [blush]


54 posted on 12/17/2015 12:06:40 AM PST by SunkenCiv (Here's to the day the forensics people scrape what's left of Putin off the ceiling of his limo.)
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To: SteveH

It’s a nightmare to think that the fairly small unique outcrop of stones was moved by glaciers basically due east to the Salisbury plain, and that not a single one was lost along the way by the ice. But regardless, that was an excellent restatement!


55 posted on 12/17/2015 12:08:06 AM PST by SunkenCiv (Here's to the day the forensics people scrape what's left of Putin off the ceiling of his limo.)
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To: SunkenCiv

perhaps (offhand guess) the geologists envision a large mass of bluestone broken up at the source and distributed widely over a very large area, including the Salisbury Plain. However, then the next logical question might be where are all the other large bluestone liths that should in theory still be lying around. in any case not having the full article is difficult.


56 posted on 12/17/2015 12:37:31 AM PST by SteveH
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To: SteveH

This glacier mechanism idea has been pushed primarily by just the one guy, with occasional help. It’s got to be good for publicity, but basically it makes no sense, and never has. The burden of proof is definitely on the glacier advocates.


57 posted on 12/17/2015 1:02:00 AM PST by SunkenCiv (Here's to the day the forensics people scrape what's left of Putin off the ceiling of his limo.)
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To: SunkenCiv

58 posted on 12/17/2015 1:40:53 AM PST by SteveH
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To: SunkenCiv

Ahh, but absence of evidence isn’t necessarily evidence of absence.

The fact that Salisbury Plain is mostly clear of stones now doesn’t mean it was that way in the past. Remember, Wiltshire and Somerset is some of the most intensively farmed and occupied real estate on the planet and has been for thousands of years and farmers spend a lot of time and effort removing obstacles like big rocks from their land.

There are a few small parts of the area that have apparently never been farmed or developed and offer a glimpse of the Mesolithic/Neolithic environment. One of them is called Lockeridge Dene and it’s now protected by law.

Here’s a photo of one of the main meadows and, as you can see, it’s covered with glacially moved rocks.

http://www.fotolibra.com/gallery/1180386/sarsen-stones-lockeridge-dene-wiltshire/

I was lucky enough to visit it after a trip to Stonehenge and it’s a magical place. In fact, I’d recommend to anyone planning to visit Stonehenge, do some reading and take the time to view the place in context - an amazing amount is still preserved. Visit Dunnington Walls and walk the river Avon and the ceremonial entranceway to the stones themselves (about a 3m walk, in all). The approach that way is as they were planned to be seen by the people that constructed them and is mind blowing. So much better than the depressing car park, visitor center and highway that you have to cross.


59 posted on 12/17/2015 6:30:49 AM PST by Natufian (t)
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To: MHGinTN

The sphinx looks to me like it was built once, possibly as a complete lion (head and all)

Then it got its bottom third worn away by serious water erosion, then got buried up to its neck.

Then the face that remained was eroded away some more. So much that a pharaoh decided he would carve his face onto what remained sticking up out of the ground, possibly never knowing what was buried.


60 posted on 12/17/2015 9:14:52 AM PST by Mr. K (If it is HilLIARy -vs- Jeb! then I am writing-in Palin/Cruz)
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