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To: wintertime

As a lawyer turned teacher, I would like to address at least one point you make, in that everyone else puts in extra hours. That may be true, but perhaps not to the extent that teacher do.

As a former prosecutor I put in a good days work, and would generally take work home if I was preparing for an upcoming trial, but that was seldom.

This past year as a teacher, I often found myself in my classroom at 5:30 am getting ready for the school day. (School started at 8:20) and often times not leaving until 4:30 or 5:00 pm. Then, go home eat dinner, and grade papers the rest of the night. So on an average day, I might put in anywhere from 15-18 hours. It's worse for coaches.

It has often been said that teachers are nothing more than glorified babysitters. If that's the case, then I would love to have a babysitter's salary. Let's do the math. If a babysitter charges say $3.00 an hour per child, and the average class size is 25 students at 7 hours a day that comes to $535 per day. Teaching 185 days a year, that comes to an annual salary of $97,125, far more than the $32,500 I earned this past year, and that was a Doctorate level salary, not a Masters, or Bachelors. Please pay me like a babysitter.

Or lets look at a daycare. My local daycare charges me $20 a day. So, $20 times 25 students is $500 a day, at 185 days is $92,500. Please, pay me like a daycare.

Are there problems amongst the teaching profession? Sure, but so are there across all professions. Even in the legal professions there are attorneys that have no business practicing law. Bottom line, teachers have a far harder job then you would think. How do I know? I worked harder this past year as a teacher then I ever did as an attorney. I've seen both sides.


25 posted on 06/17/2006 5:41:50 AM PDT by alvindsv
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To: alvindsv

Or lets look at a daycare. My local daycare charges me $20 a day. So, $20 times 25 students is $500 a day, at 185 days is $92,500. Please, pay me like a daycare.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Then why fight vouchers?


30 posted on 06/17/2006 5:45:32 AM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: alvindsv
Are there problems amongst the teaching profession? Sure, but so are there across all professions.

But in other professions, there is accountability. In teaching there is very little accountability because performance is never measured and standards are always discounted.

35 posted on 06/17/2006 5:49:38 AM PDT by Erik Latranyi (The Democratic Party will not exist in a few years....we are watching history unfold before us.)
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To: alvindsv
Or lets look at a daycare. My local daycare charges me $20 a day. So, $20 times 25 students is $500 a day, at 185 days is $92,500. Please, pay me like a daycare.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Stop WHINING!

If you want $92,000 a year then open a daycare.

BUT...Be prepared to get to work at 5:30 in the morning to get ready for the child who arrives at 6 a.m. Then be prepared to go home at 7:00 p.m., an hour after the last child leaves. Be prepared to come in on Saturdays to do the repairs and manage the bookkeeping and payroll.

Be prepared to NEVER have a vacation....NEVER!

Be prepared to pay the property and business taxes, payroll taxes, business insurances, and income taxes. Be prepared to pay salaries and CPA fees.

Be prepared to go bankrupt or lose money.

Like ALL the WHINNY teachers I have ever met, you take a buisness's GROSS ( not considering expenses) and compare it to your VERY GENEROUS salary. How typical!

What was that big name school you went to?( eye roll at the ignorance of basic economics.)
48 posted on 06/17/2006 6:01:06 AM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: alvindsv
Or lets look at a daycare. My local daycare charges me $20 a day. So, $20 times 25 students is $500 a day, at 185 days is $92,500. Please, pay me like a daycare.

A day care with 25 students would be required to have from 3-5 people on the payroll to help herd the kids. They would also have the expenses to cover, like rent, utilities, - liability insurance - and employee wages, matching taxes, longer hours (kids are dropped off BEFORE parents get to work, picked up after,sometimes quite a time after, daycare doesn't get summers off, - etc etc.

Take those off the top of the $97,175 and I doubt what's left comes up to your salary.

Hope you aren't a math teacher.

109 posted on 06/17/2006 6:46:58 AM PDT by maine-iac7 (Lincoln: "...but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.")
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To: alvindsv

Your's is a weak argument: most daycare workers in my area make minimum wage.


163 posted on 06/17/2006 8:03:44 AM PDT by gingerky
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To: alvindsv
My first career was in law, my current career is in my own business in the legal publishing field, and I'd like to make my third and final career (around the time I turn 50 or so) in teaching. I think it's a rewarding career. If I end up liking it, and am good at it, I'd do it for 5-10 years or so. If not, I'd abort after 1 or 2 years.

I'd consider it the 'giving back' portion of my career life.

Kudos to you for your background in law, and for your fine work teaching our youngsters. I'd like to do that too, someday!
194 posted on 06/17/2006 10:00:52 AM PDT by HitmanLV ("5 Minute Penalty for #40, Ann Theresa Calvello!" - RIP 1929-2006)
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To: alvindsv
This past year as a teacher, I often found myself in my classroom at 5:30 am getting ready for the school day. (School started at 8:20) and often times not leaving until 4:30 or 5:00 pm. Then, go home eat dinner, and grade papers the rest of the night.

Sounds like your school district runs a more cost effective operation than mine.

First - There is never a teacher at the elementary school down the street from me before 8:15. They leave before the buses do so they don't get held up on their drive home. By 3:30 (school's out at 3) the only car in the lot is the janitors. The High School is pretty much the same except for the coaches, who get extra pay for that after school work.

Second - Our teachers don't work all day. In the middle school/high school the day is 7 periods long; my friends who are teachers complain if they are scheduled to teach 4 periods a day.

Third - Every classroom has at least one aide. They do the things like collecting papers, hanging things on the bulletin boards, cover the coffee breaks, etc. If there are any "mainstreamed" kids in the class there are generally 2 aides.

Fourth - you clearly haven't mastered the art of having the kids grade each others papers. My children started public school in third grade (after starting out in a private school), and began this quaint practice immediately. The downside to the kids is that if your fellow student marks things wrong that are right, it's up to the student to get the teachers attention to make it right. The teachers don't review this grading process.

Finally - you need to get a clearer understanding of how much your workload will be reduced by group projects. If you have 25 students, and have them do math problems, english papers, or spelling tests as a group of 5, you'll only have 5 papers to grade instead of 25.

You may think I'm being facetious, but in my school district, which touts itself as a "world class school district" (and ranks high in the state for academic quality) this is the norm. Last I heard (a couple years ago) average teacher salaries were $65,000/year.

235 posted on 06/17/2006 11:28:48 AM PDT by Kay Ludlow (Free market, but cautious about what I support with my dollars)
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To: alvindsv
This past year as a teacher, I often found myself in my classroom at 5:30 am getting ready for the school day. (School started at 8:20) and often times not leaving until 4:30 or 5:00 pm. Then, go home eat dinner, and grade papers the rest of the night. So on an average day, I might put in anywhere from 15-18 hours. It's worse for coaches.

I see why you quit being a lawyer. You are not very convincing.

I see the teachers go to school every day. It is about 30 minutes ahead of the students, if that. And they are all headed out of the school very soon after the final bell. I'd love to go against you in a trial with your contention that teachers put in 15-18 hours a day.

400 posted on 06/17/2006 9:37:25 PM PDT by BJungNan
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