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Austrian Writer Peter Handke: Send my award to the Serbs
ERPKIM ^ | June 23, 2006 | By D. Sekulic

Posted on 06/26/2006 11:04:21 AM PDT by Bokababe

Peter Handke has once again shocked the German public but this time in such a way that not even the most extreme do not dare criticize him for it. He has given up the alternative Heinrich Heine award that the actors and intellectuals of Berlin wished to bestow upon him in favor of the Serbs of Kosovo, who live "surrounded by barbed wire and tanks".

www.novosti.co.yu Vecernje Novosti daily, Belgrade

June 24, 2006 By D. Sekulic, June 23, 2006

Peter Handke has once again shocked the German public but this time in such a way that not even the most extreme do not dare criticize him for it. He has given up the alternative Heinrich Heine award that the actors and intellectuals of Berlin wished to bestow upon him in favor of the Serbs of Kosovo, who live "surrounded by barbed wire and tanks".

The Berlin Ensemble, headed by the also frequently controversial Klaus Peymann, the famous former head of the Vienna Burgtheater, recently organized donations with the help of numerous actors to award Handke an alternative Heinrich Heine award in the amount of 50,000 euros. The highly prestigious German language award was awarded to Peter Handke by an expert jury in Dusseldorf but the city council refused to accept its decision, stating quite literally that the award could not go to a writer who is of pro-Serb orientation!

The case provoked spirited discussion and many concluded that it represented an instance of brutal political censure of literature. Local politicians are judging one of the greatest living writers in the German language, warned eminent intellectuals, among them some, like Nobel laureate Gunther Grass who at one time advocated the bombing of Serbia.

At the same time Handke informed Peymann and his friends that he is renouncing the alternative award as well because, as he had previously stated, he did not wish his work to be the subject of meddling by local politicians. The money that they collect should be sent to the Serb enclaves in Kosovo and Metohija to people who are living under impossible conditions thanks to the supporters of "freedom" imposed upon them by NATO bombs.

Grass dismisses jury

In Dusseldorf it has now been openly admitted that the decision really was of a political nature and that the Heinrich Heine award allegedly has a clearly political character. In response to this, Grass, who is highly influential, has sent a request that in the future the city council be stripped of the right to approve or reject the decision of the expert jury.

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Related article:

Disputed Author Handke Awarded German Literary Prize

DEUTSCE WELLE 25.05.2006

Großansict des Bildes mit der Bildunterscrift: Austrian writer Peter Handke is controversial because of his stance on Serbia

Controversial Austrian playwright and novelist Peter Handke was awarded the city of Düseldorf's Heine Prize for literature.

The Heine Prize, endowed for 50,000 euros ($64,000), is one of the three highest-paying literature prizes in Germany. The jury said Handke -- like Heinric Heine, the German poet after whom the prize is named -- obstinately follows the way to an "open truth." He puts forth his own poetic world view, in contrast to broader public opinion, they said. The prize will be awared on Dec. 13.

Handke wrote the groundbreaking experimental play "Offending the Audience" and the novel "The Goalie's Anxiety at the Penalty Kick", but may be best know for writing the novel "Wings of Desire", whic was turned into a film by Wim Wenders.

Pro-Serbian stance

He is controversial because of his pro-Serbian stance during the Balkan wars, and his support for the Serbian regime.

Recently, Frenc national theatre Comédie-Française removed the play "Voyage to the Sonorous Land or the Art of Asking" from its 2007 season lineup, after Handke spoke at the burial of former Serbian dictator Slobodan Milosevic in Marc.

Handke, who lives in France, said in an esay in the Frenc newspaper Libération: "Let's stop laying the masacre . on the backs of the Serbian military and paramilitary. And listen -- at last -- to the survivors of the Muslim masacres in numerous Serbian villages around Srebrenica."

'Glad' aceptance

Last year, Handke's publisher, Suhrkamp Verlag, said the author would categorically refuse any more literature prizes; in Paris, however, Handke said he would "gladly" acept the Heine Prize.

Up to now, winners of the Heine Prize have included Walter Jens, Günter Kunert, Max Frisc, Wolf Biermann, Hans Magnus Enzensberger, Elfriede Jelinek und Robert Gernhardt.


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Miscellaneous; Philosophy; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: albania; allybetrayed; austria; balkans; christianity; clintonlegacy; darkotheustashi; germany; ihoppy; islamofascists; jihad; kosovo; pancakeboy; serb; sorosfluffers; toothlessdhimmi; wrongplace; wrongside; wrongtime; wrongwar
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To: Lion in Winter
You have been slammed real GOOD on this thread... WHAT A JOY TO BEHOLD.

If by "slammed" you mean insulted by morons like yourself, then you're absolutely right.

If you meant that my points have been refuted, they haven't. Handke is still a Communist and Milosevic's legacy as a war criminal and dictator is intact.

So sorry.

Now, Tuck your little tail between your legs and run like a mussie coward ALWAYS does!

Count your blessings that you didn't make that comment to my face. You are indeed living proof that luck is better than candlepower.

151 posted on 06/28/2006 10:16:51 AM PDT by wideawake ("The nation which forgets its defenders will itself be forgotten." - Calvin Coolidge)
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To: wideawake
http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/1999/05-10-99/why_kosovo.htm

Additionally, the Croatian military campaign received tactical support from NATO. As Croat forces began their attack, U.S. aircraft under NATO command destroyed Serbian radar and anti-aircraft defenses in the region. American EA-6B electronic warfare aircraft patrolled the skies in support of the unfolding offensive, jamming communications between Serb units. But there was also a covert American presence on the ground in support of the Croats. Military Professional Resources Incorporated (MPRI), a private military and intelligence consulting firm based in Virginia, had been hired by Tudjman in early 1995 to upgrade his Soviet-created Ministry of Defense into a modern fighting force. According to MPRI information officer Joseph Allred, the firm exists so that "the U.S. can have influence as part of its national strategy on other nations without employing its own army."

Thanks in large measure to training it received from MPRI, the "ex"-Communist Croatian military, which had previously been dismissed as bumbling and inept, performed its grisly mission in Krajina with unexpected efficiency and professionalism. By focusing primarily on civilian targets, the Croats minimized their casualties: Croatia admitted to suffering only 118 dead or wounded, as compared to an estimated 14,000 civilian casualties among the Serbs. An AP dispatch filed during the offensive reported that Croat forces shelled and strafed columns of Serb refugees.

Canadian General Alain Forand, who was assigned to UN "peacekeeping" duty in Krajina during Operation Storm, has testified, "There is no doubt in my mind that the Croats knew they were shelling civilian targets" in the city of Knin, which was where the Krajina Serb parliament was located. Colonel Andrew Leslie, another Canadian "peacekeeper," estimated that of the more than 3,000 shells fired at the city, no more than 250 hit military targets; accordingly, he concluded, "the fire was deliberately directed against civilian buildings." Leslie has also described seeing bodies of the dead at Knin Hospital "stacked in the corridors … in piles."


152 posted on 06/28/2006 10:18:13 AM PDT by joan
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To: joan
Abdic is a Bosnian Muslim - both his first and last names are common Bosniak names. He wasn't Serb nor from Serbia.

I never claimed he was a Serb. He is a Bosnian Muslim, but he was the candidate for the presidency favored by the Serbian electorate.

he was the candidate favored by Yugoslavia and he wound up fighting on the Serb side against Bosnian Muslims.

153 posted on 06/28/2006 10:23:15 AM PDT by wideawake ("The nation which forgets its defenders will itself be forgotten." - Calvin Coolidge)
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To: wideawake; montyspython; ma bell
Dear wideawake.... I mean HALF-ASLEEP!!!!

HA!! HA! LOL!!

Again you made my day!!

I MADE YOU MAD!!!

I am so happy now.... haha!!!

They kicked you good and now I get a HUGE laught at YOUR expense.

This too rich!!! THIS IS WONDERFUL!!!

You are soooooo angry, LOL!!

154 posted on 06/28/2006 10:24:40 AM PDT by Lion in Winter (islamics arn't religious, just set on on mass murder of non-muslims! NO FAT ISLAMIC broads!!)
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To: joan
The kind of "civilians" who were doing things like planting explosives and throwing grenades most likely.

If I made those kind of assumptions about the Serbs killed by Oric and his thugs, you'de be screaming your head off. But without any specific knowledge, you make this assumption.

Interesting.

155 posted on 06/28/2006 10:26:11 AM PDT by wideawake ("The nation which forgets its defenders will itself be forgotten." - Calvin Coolidge)
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To: wideawake
The Serbs killed by Oric were mutilated and dismembered - and there are pictures and autopsies of this. Even if they were armed, the mutilation - cutting off the heads - shows what animals they are and is a war crime in itself.

Let's see you post and pictures, autopsy results or evidence of the alleged civilians killed by Abdic.

156 posted on 06/28/2006 10:28:36 AM PDT by joan
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To: joan

Sorry, I don't consider cut-and-paste jobs from tinfoil-hatted Buchananite sites authoritative.


157 posted on 06/28/2006 10:30:07 AM PDT by wideawake ("The nation which forgets its defenders will itself be forgotten." - Calvin Coolidge)
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To: joan
And those were SERBIAN civilians weren't they?

The croats of 1995-1998 got away with more war crimes just they did after WWII.

I guess TITO, that old Croat commie did not want his fellow CROATS to suffer TOO much, even if they had been BIG HITLER LOVING NAZIS IN WWII.

158 posted on 06/28/2006 10:30:10 AM PDT by Lion in Winter (islamics arn't religious, just set on on mass murder of non-muslims! NO FAT ISLAMIC broads!!)
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To: Bokababe

This Man seems to a leftist fighter against Jihad. Maybe he'll sway other leftists


159 posted on 06/28/2006 10:31:36 AM PDT by dennisw (Confucius say man who go through turnstile sideways going to Bangkok.)
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To: joan
Let's see you post and pictures, autopsy results or evidence of the alleged civilians killed by Abdic.

Abdic's crimes are a matter of public record and he is serving time in prison for them right now.

160 posted on 06/28/2006 10:31:43 AM PDT by wideawake ("The nation which forgets its defenders will itself be forgotten." - Calvin Coolidge)
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To: wideawake

Better Slobodan Milosovich than Islam Jihad


161 posted on 06/28/2006 10:33:02 AM PDT by dennisw (Confucius say man who go through turnstile sideways going to Bangkok.)
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To: dennisw
I choose neither.

The answer is economic and political freedom - not Croatian fascism, not Bosnian Islam, not Serbian Communism.

162 posted on 06/28/2006 10:34:59 AM PDT by wideawake ("The nation which forgets its defenders will itself be forgotten." - Calvin Coolidge)
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To: wideawake
Better Slobodan Milosovich than Islam Jihad

I choose neither.

The decision was made for you and the winner was Jihad. Muslims now control more European turf. Dar al Islam has grown

163 posted on 06/28/2006 10:37:46 AM PDT by dennisw (Confucius say man who go through turnstile sideways going to Bangkok.)
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To: wideawake
"Abdic's crimes are a matter of public record"

A public record written by people that claim fighters are innocent civilians.

164 posted on 06/28/2006 10:37:57 AM PDT by joan
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To: wideawake
I choose neither.

But you do. You take anti-Serbian position.

165 posted on 06/28/2006 10:38:38 AM PDT by A. Pole (Psalm 14: "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.")
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To: wideawake
I choose neither.

But you do. You take anti-Serbian position.

166 posted on 06/28/2006 10:38:44 AM PDT by A. Pole (Psalm 14: "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.")
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To: dennisw
Muslims now control more European turf.

And free people are now in charge in Serbia.

And with Tudjman gone, there is hope yet for Croatia as well.

A free Serbia will prove in the long run to be a valuable asset against Islam.

167 posted on 06/28/2006 10:39:45 AM PDT by wideawake ("The nation which forgets its defenders will itself be forgotten." - Calvin Coolidge)
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To: A. Pole
But you do. You take anti-Serbian position.

I disapprove of the actions of the criminal Milosevic regime.

I disapprove of the actions of the criminal Izetbegovic regime.

I disapprove of the actions of the criminal Karadzic regime.

I disapprove of the actions of the criminal Tudjman regime.

I defend none of these travesties of justice.

If I support any existing government in the Balkans, it would be the government of free Serbia and not the regime in place in Bosnia, not the quasi-fascist regime in Croatia and not the corrupt UN administration in Kosovo.

168 posted on 06/28/2006 10:44:14 AM PDT by wideawake ("The nation which forgets its defenders will itself be forgotten." - Calvin Coolidge)
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To: wideawake
And free people are now in charge in Serbia.

Kosovo is part of Serbia. Krajina was Serbian land. And several of this "free people [...] in charge in Serbia" are EU/NATO puppets.

Have your blue pill or you wake up :)

169 posted on 06/28/2006 10:46:21 AM PDT by A. Pole (Psalm 14: "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.")
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To: A. Pole
Kosovo is part of Serbia.

Legally, yes. The facts on the ground are that the UN is in charge.

Krajina was Serbian land.

Krajina was both Serbian and Croatian land. Then Croatia stole it by force.

And several of this "free people [...] in charge in Serbia" are EU/NATO puppets

Are you saying that Kostunica, elected PM of Serbia in a free and fair election, is a "puppet" simply because he wants Serbia to move forward and reestablish normal relations with the West?

Have your blue pill or you wake up :)

Why don't you wake up and realize that the dictator is dead and that the Serbs are free to rebuild and make their own destiny.

170 posted on 06/28/2006 10:57:49 AM PDT by wideawake ("The nation which forgets its defenders will itself be forgotten." - Calvin Coolidge)
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To: BigAlPro
I have mourned for the families of the victims on all sides of this tragedy.

As have I, Big Al. I recall talking to a Croat woman on the phone here in the US when the war in Croatia was raging. We didn't know each other and never met face to face (even after that call); the phone call was for business reasons. The Croat woman --named Marica --had noticed that I pronounced her name correctly when no American did, and she asked me about my background. I apprehesively volunteered it and she said that her husband was also a Serb. We eventually talked about what was going on over in Yugo -- her family, why they left (because her husband had to) and the about the part of my family who were still there, including my ancient Aunt and some cousins in Zadar (Croatia) -- and by the end of that conversation, we were both sobbing inconsolably on the phone to one another. Two strangers crying on each other's shoulders because no one else around them understood -- but they understood each other.

Few real humans on all sides of those wars have had a chance to grieve, just grieve, for what was lost -- without political triumphalism or being perpetually humiliated as "the agressors". And sooner or later, they will have to grieve together, or forever be embittered by life

I have always believed that that Yugoslavia was "a family of peoples" -- an incredibly dysfunctional family, but a family none the less. Yes, Big Al, there were those on the outside who exploited that "familial dysfunction". The UN certainly did it's part, but they weren't alone. Germany, the UN, NATO, the EU, the OSCE and the US did their part, too. And Milosevic was an idiot without scruples, easily manipulated by his malignant narcissism. But if I were to blame any one outside force for the greatest damage, it would be Germany, whose ambitions -- where it had no busisness being -- started it all.

Have you ever read actress Mira Furlan's "A Letter to my Co-Citizens"?

Mira Furlan is a Croat actress who performed in Belgrade during the beginning of the war with Croatia, and was (like Handke) vilified for it. She was fired and threatened, even by friends. She left Croatia to come to the US, where she starred in the TV show "Babylon Five" and is currently on the TV show "Lost" Her letter broke my heart: http://www.zlatna.com/celebration/mpismo.html

171 posted on 06/28/2006 11:09:24 AM PDT by Bokababe (www.savekosovo.org)
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To: tgambill; Bokababe; SeanOGuano; zagor-te-nej; Lion in Winter; Honorary Serb; jb6; Incorrigible; ...
"There was just enough truth to make the world believe the big lie."

There are no angels in the Balkans, but the Bosnian Mulslims, their hitmen the Albanians, and the jihadists they harbor are certainly devils. How we became their allies against the Serbs is one of the great mysteries of all time.

The completely gratuitous, in a military sense, bombing of Serbia made us war criminals, just like certain of the out-of-control Serb, Croat, and Bosnian militias. To ally ourselves with the criminals of the KLA was insane.

To have all of this accurately pointed out to us by a Marxist intellectual is really the height of irony.

172 posted on 06/28/2006 11:11:17 AM PDT by Kenny Bunk ( Vote Fraud: The Democrats' Secret Weapon .... Well, secret to the RNC, anyway.)
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To: wideawake
You fail to fathom the notion that Americans such as myself detest with such passion for the Slobos of this world. yet, due to the expansion of islam and the threat to Christianity, we fought it and are continue to fight it with no mercy.

Your failure to recognize that is disheartening since you seem well informed of the troubles of BiH/Kosovo.

What you can't understand is the enormous high number of 'dead' were created by their fellow muslims. The Serbs are not the bogeyman the media and politicians made them out to be. Just maybe that is the reason why muslims of Sarajevo and in various regions fled to the Serbs to escape the Izetbegovic regime?

173 posted on 06/28/2006 11:22:15 AM PDT by ma bell ("Take me to the Brig. I want to see the "real Marines". Major General Chesty Puller, USMC)
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To: wideawake; A. Pole; joan

I'm late in the discussion, and I want to avoid any personal attacks preferring sticking to the known facts and solid research. Here are a few interesting links I found about Islamist connection to Balkans during the recent Yugoslavian wars and beyond. I'll let you draw your own conclusions from this.

Here are a few articles on Bin Laden's and other Jihadists Balkan Connection.

http://www.balkanpeace.org/our/our09.shtml

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1574796.stm

http://www.iwpr.net/?p=bcr&s=f&o=250223&apc_state=henibcr2002




Here are a few articles on Bosnia and Syria ties.

http://www.balkanpeace.org/hed/archive/jan06/hed7320.shtml

Here is what Grand Mufti of Bosnia and Herzegovina Mustafa Ceric said about recent US-Syrian Confrontation.

http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/060204/2006020409.html

"The Grand Mufti of Bosnia and Herzegovina, Mustafa Ceric called on Friday for standing by Syria in the face of pressures put on her."

"What Syria is exposed to and what is going on in Iraq and Palestine disturb us in the west, the Mufti said in an interview with Tunisian al-Shorok newspaper, adding: There would be no peace in the west without the realization of peace in the east."

"What the world had offered to Jerusalem during 50 years of occupation? the Mufti inquired, indicating that the city of has become a city for war."

"Humanity has to move for turning away what threatens the holy city, Ceric concluded."




Here is a 2001 article by WND's Joseph Farah on the alleged Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA) alliance with Al-Qaida. I posted some fragments.

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=25214

"Now, get this: According to a report last week in the Halifax Herald the key to unraveling the bin Laden network may not be in Afghanistan at all – but in the Balkans. In July and August, just before the terror attack on the U.S., Albanian guerrillas tied to bin Laden gained control over 30 percent of Macedonia. "

"The Macedonian military said the guerrillas include veterans of Bosnia, Kosovo and Chechnya. During a major guerrilla offensive, the Macedonians were able to contain the uprising with helicopter gunships acquired from Ukraine. But shortly after that, the helicopters came under attack from U.S.-made Stinger missiles. "

"Guess where those weapons came from? You got it. Afghanistan. "

"Let's not forget that one of the Sept. 11 hijackers had been active in both the Kosovo and Macedonia military campaigns."

Here is a review of book by Terrorism analyst Evan F. Kohlmann, "Al-Qaida Jihad in Europe".

http://www.globalterroralert.com/book.html

"Terrorist analyst Evan Kohlmann argues that the key to understanding Al Qaida’s European cells lies in the Bosnian war of the 1990s. Using the Bosnian war as their cover, Afghan-trained Islamic militants loyal to Osama bin Laden convened in the Balkans in 1992 to establish a European domestic terrorist infrastructure in order to plot their violent strikes against the United States. As the West and the United Nations looked on with disapproval, the fanatic foreign 'mujahideen', or holy warriors, wreaked havoc across southern Europe, taking particular aim at UN peacekeepers and even openly fighting with Bosnian Muslims at times. Middle Eastern religious and charitable organizations, largely based in and funded from the Arabian Gulf, were responsible for bankrolling this effort, and providing travel documentation for would-be mujahideen recruits."

"The 1995 Dayton Accords – which brought a final, merciful end to the Bosnian war – did nothing to deter the unwavering mission of the 'Afghano-Bosniaks'. Within a few months, home-grown terrorist sleeper cells appeared on the streets of Europe’s cities. Many of the cell members – responsible for some of the most notorious terrorist attacks of the past decade – spent their formative years waging jihad in the unlikely Muslim land of Bosnia. "

"Al-Qaida’s Jihad in Europe unveils a new angle to the deadly international terrorist organization and includes recently declassified American and European intelligence reports, secret Al-Qaida records and internal documents, and interviews with notorious figures such as London-based Bin Laden recruiter Abu Hamza Al-Masri. "


174 posted on 06/28/2006 11:28:52 AM PDT by sergey1973
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To: Kenny Bunk
To have all of this accurately pointed out to us by a Marxist intellectual is really the height of irony.

True, but The Cato Institute was pointing out the same thing, yet no one was listening.

When you have two such divergent political forces on the same page with something, you've got to know that something is really going insanely wrong!

175 posted on 06/28/2006 11:43:06 AM PDT by Bokababe (www.savekosovo.org)
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To: wideawake
Are you saying that Kostunica, elected PM of Serbia in a free and fair election, is a "puppet" simply because he wants Serbia to move forward and reestablish normal relations with the West?

Kostunica is maybe not, but he cannot do much. The elections in Serbia are not really "free and fair" because there is too much pressure and intimidation from the West.

176 posted on 06/28/2006 11:47:15 AM PDT by A. Pole (Psalm 14: "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.")
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To: wideawake

You've made two statements, for which I can find no corraboration. Please state a source for these:

1. That "Abdic lost the election to Izetbegovic". All my info says that Fikret Abdic actually won the Bosnian election and even had support from many Serbs, but -- for unknown reasons -- he stood aside and let Izetbegovic take the presidency.

2. That "Handke met with Milosevic". I have found no info, even from Handke's greatest detractors to indicate that Handke and Milosevic ever actually met in life, although it would certainly been easy enough to do if Handke so chose.

Please clarify.


177 posted on 06/28/2006 11:49:13 AM PDT by Bokababe (www.savekosovo.org)
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To: wideawake
Why don't you wake up and realize that the dictator is dead and that the Serbs are free to rebuild and make their own destiny.

They are not free now. They are under the EU/NATO boot in many subtle or not so subtle ways. The destiny for them is being made in Brussels and Washington as it was made in Istanbul in the past.

178 posted on 06/28/2006 11:50:04 AM PDT by A. Pole (Psalm 14: "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.")
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To: Bokababe
That "Abdic lost the election to Izetbegovic".

I never made such a claim. I believe Abdic withdrew from the election as I pointed out earlier.

Abdic would likely have won the election.

have found no info, even from Handke's greatest detractors to indicate that Handke and Milosevic ever actually met in life

I was under the impression that Handke attended state functions in Belgrade at which Milosevic was present. I can't substantiate that right now with the resources at my disposal.

179 posted on 06/28/2006 12:03:37 PM PDT by wideawake ("The nation which forgets its defenders will itself be forgotten." - Calvin Coolidge)
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To: A. Pole
The elections in Serbia are not really "free and fair" because there is too much pressure and intimidation from the West.

Give me a break. An election is only free if the the voters are able to completely ignore the international ramifications of their choice?

Then no national election anywhere is ever free.

180 posted on 06/28/2006 12:05:12 PM PDT by wideawake ("The nation which forgets its defenders will itself be forgotten." - Calvin Coolidge)
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To: A. Pole
They are not free now. They are under the EU/NATO boot in many subtle or not so subtle ways. The destiny for them is being made in Brussels and Washington as it was made in Istanbul in the past.

Again, give me a break.

Serbia is a small country and like every other small country in the world it is affected by decisions made by major powers like Russia, China, the US and the EU.

Here's a clue - if someone has only a subtle influence on you, that means you are actually not a slave or a prisoner.

181 posted on 06/28/2006 12:07:48 PM PDT by wideawake ("The nation which forgets its defenders will itself be forgotten." - Calvin Coolidge)
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To: wideawake
An election is only free if the the voters are able to completely ignore the international ramifications of their choice?

It depends how severe the ramifications can be and how vulnerable you are. At certain point you are not free anymore.

Here's a clue - if someone has only a subtle influence on you, that means you are actually not a slave or a prisoner.

Subtle in a sense that the gun pointed at you is hidden under a nice coat.

182 posted on 06/28/2006 12:11:55 PM PDT by A. Pole (Psalm 14: "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.")
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To: pbrown
Here is an example of just what I wrote to you about.... Christians being persecuted by islamics in the Balkans.

Be sure to pass by the PRO- islamic posts of CERTAIN NON-conservatives.... you know the names!!

183 posted on 06/28/2006 12:30:26 PM PDT by Lion in Winter (islamics arn't religious, just set on on mass murder of non-muslims! NO FAT ISLAMIC broads!!)
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To: sergey1973

Thanks for this. An interesting bunch of links.


184 posted on 06/28/2006 12:36:35 PM PDT by wideawake ("The nation which forgets its defenders will itself be forgotten." - Calvin Coolidge)
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To: wideawake
"I believe Abdic withdrew from the election as I pointed out earlier."

http://www.abausa.org/fikret_abdic__bosnian_ataturk.htm

http://www.diacritica.com/sobaka/dossier/abdic.html

All info I have indicates that Abdic actually won the election by as much as 200,000 votes, and stepped aside. Some sources state that "Abdic was threatened", others that "he was forced to step aside". The real reasons for him not taking the presidencey have yet to be convincingly proved.

"I was under the impression that Handke attended state functions in Belgrade at which Milosevic was present. I can't substantiate that right now with the resources at my disposal."

If and when you find that info, let me know, because I can find absolutely no indication of it -- or even an allegation of it from anywhere else.

In Handke's book about his 1996 trip to Yugoslavia, he clearly states that he chose to travel "quietly unannounced" because he didn't wish his visit be used as a political tool of any political side in the wars. Handke also said in the book, that he had "previously only been in Belgrade only once" twenty years before, when Belgraders panned one of his silent plays.

185 posted on 06/28/2006 12:51:32 PM PDT by Bokababe (www.savekosovo.org)
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To: wideawake

Serbian communism? What socialist dope are you smoking?


186 posted on 06/28/2006 12:51:54 PM PDT by montyspython (Love that chicken from Popeye's)
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To: Kenny Bunk
"There are no angels in the Balkans, but the Bosnian Mulslims, their hitmen the Albanians, and the jihadists they harbor are certainly devils. How we became their allies against the Serbs is one of the great mysteries of all time."

Its about dismantling communism, but our State Department always shoots itself in the foot. Financing jihadists in Afghanistan and the Balkans has now come back to haunt us in a big way but the old Cold War relics haven't quite realized the damage that that type of strategy has done.

187 posted on 06/28/2006 1:19:46 PM PDT by montyspython (Love that chicken from Popeye's)
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To: wideawake
"Abdic's crimes are a matter of public record and he is serving time in prison for them right now."

Who's public record? Site a source please.

188 posted on 06/28/2006 1:21:44 PM PDT by montyspython (Love that chicken from Popeye's)
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To: montyspython
"Abdic's crimes are a matter of public record and he is serving time in prison for them right now."

The main Abdic's crime is that he did not toe the line.

189 posted on 06/28/2006 1:30:01 PM PDT by A. Pole (Psalm 14: "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.")
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To: A. Pole; wideawake
"Are you saying that Kostunica, elected PM of Serbia in a free and fair election, is a "puppet" simply because he wants Serbia to move forward and reestablish normal relations with the West?" "Kostunica is maybe not, but he cannot do much. The elections in Serbia are not really "free and fair" because there is too much pressure and intimidation from the West."

Kostunica is a brilliant man and an honest one. He was so pro-American that, when Yugoslavia was still communist, Kostunica translated the American "Federalist Papers" into Serbian. But now , he is between a rock and a hard place -- and there are no good options for him to lead his country where it needs to go.

Tadic and his late predecessor, Zoran Djindjic, would both sell their mothers for a $1.25. They were and are Western auctioneers for "a fire sale on Serbian assets". (Djindjic got himself killed by the very mafia he was using for some of his more underhanded business deals.) I personally didn't shed a tear when someone took him out.

But, because of Djindjic and now Tadic, and Western (largely German for Djindjic, Tadic spreads his legs for anyone for a buck), Kostunica had to make a choice -- to be the "least desirable" of what the West considers "the good guys" (Djindjic & Tadic) or be the "most desirable" of what the West thinks are "the bad guys"(The Serb Nationalists). Kostunica chose the first option and was nearly destroyed by the very political and business interests that want to "buy Serbia in pieces" . So, on the advice of political strategists -- one of which was American political writer, Srdija Trifkovic (the Rockford Institute), he chose the second option, to be perceived as "the best of the bad guys". Problem is that if Kostunica makes a deal to hand over Kosovo, his fragile coalition will fall apart and he will be exiled to obscurity.

Kostunica is the best guy for Serbia and he is the best guy for America, but he is getting steamrolled by an international community intent of keeping Serbia on its knees forever and stealing what they want from corrupt politicians. The (largely Western business driven) "independence drives" of Montenegro and Kosovo are perfect examples of that. They both have politically corrupt leadership.

190 posted on 06/28/2006 1:30:07 PM PDT by Bokababe (www.savekosovo.org)
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To: A. Pole
Well, since wideawake boldly made this statement, I expect him/her to back it up.
191 posted on 06/28/2006 1:31:19 PM PDT by montyspython (Love that chicken from Popeye's)
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To: Bokababe

Bingo.


192 posted on 06/28/2006 1:33:28 PM PDT by montyspython (Love that chicken from Popeye's)
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To: wideawake

Sure, with pleasure. The question is whether Clinton intervention in the Balkans in Bosnia and Kosovo on Muslim behalf which ultimately resulted in de-facto creation of the Islamic states in Balkans did serve the US and the Western long-term interests and security.

In light of the information that continue coming out of the region, it definitely did not. This is not to excuse everything Milosevic and his Bosnian Serb Allies did in Bosnia and Kosovo, but it's to examine critically whether the US Intervention and/or post-Intervention policies in fact helped the US Jihadist enemies to obtain the bases and even countries in the former Yugoslavia.


193 posted on 06/28/2006 1:37:52 PM PDT by sergey1973
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To: sergey1973
I think it's unquestionable that the US role in the Balkans was severely wrongheaded, one-sided and mishandled and has resulted in a long-term detriment to US security and US interests.

I just don't agree with the proposition that the US acted illegally, or that US troops committed war crimes or all the other anti-American claptrap certain people are putting about.

Nor do I agree with Peter Handke that one should "stand with Milosevic" in order to obtain justice for the Serbs of the Balkans.

194 posted on 06/28/2006 1:53:49 PM PDT by wideawake ("The nation which forgets its defenders will itself be forgotten." - Calvin Coolidge)
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To: Bokababe
The real reasons for him not taking the presidencey have yet to be convincingly proved.

The post of head of the collective presidency was never Abdic's to start with - Bosnian voters elected 7 members to the collective presidency, 2 Muslims, 2 Croats, 2 Serbs, and one "other". The members of the collective presidency then caucused and chose their head amongst themselves.

You will perhaps recall a similar discrepancy between popular votes and final result which occurred here in America back in 2000.

195 posted on 06/28/2006 2:25:53 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: wideawake
"Nor do I agree with Peter Handke that one should "stand with Milosevic" in order to obtain justice for the Serbs of the Balkans."

Let me repeat myself:

In the interview with the Süddeutsche Zeitung , 31 March 1999, he (Handke) said clearly, "I am with the Serbian people, not Milosevic. Anyone who is not a pronounced anti-Serb is despised as being 'pro-Serb'. Whoever mentions Milosevic's name without immediately adding 'slaughterer', 'Balkan Hitler', 'God protect us', is accused of taking sides with Milosovic.” He added, polemically, that "to be called pro-Serb today is an honour."

If you are talking about the funeral -- there was no "standing with Milosevic". Milosevic was dead, in a coffin and ultimately underground.

And until you can find that unheard of reference re "Handke & Milosevic (supposedly) meeting", it is pointless to even raise as a counter-argument.

196 posted on 06/28/2006 2:36:58 PM PDT by Bokababe (www.savekosovo.org)
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To: Hoplite
"The post of head of the collective presidency was never Abdic's to start with - Bosnian voters elected 7 members to the collective presidency, 2 Muslims, 2 Croats, 2 Serbs, and one "other". The members of the collective presidency then caucused and chose their head amongst themselves."

This is what the Sobaka site I posted earlier said:

In Bosnia's federated system, the republic was ruled by a rotating presidency of five members, and the one who received the largest overall number of votes would become its chair. Abdic outscored Izetbegovic rather handily (Abdic received 1,010,618, with a good share of support among Serbs and Croats, to Izetbegovic's 847,386, mostly among Muslims). For reasons which have never been adequately explained, Abdic abstained from taking the head of the presidency, granting it by default to Izetbegovic.

197 posted on 06/28/2006 3:44:31 PM PDT by Bokababe (www.savekosovo.org)
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To: Bokababe

Bump and bookmark


198 posted on 06/28/2006 3:54:02 PM PDT by murdoog
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To: Bokababe
Your source is incorrect on two counts

1) The 1990 elections were for a 7 member collective presidency. Results were as follows: Izetbegovic and Abdic from the SDA, Plavsic and Koljevic from the SDS, Kljuljic and Boras from the HDZ, and Ganic, also from the SDA, who ran and was elected as an "Other" candidate.

2) There was nothing in the Bosnian constitution awarding the head of the collective presidency to the winner of the most votes.

When all was said and done, the head of the collective presidency (SDA), the office of prime minister (HDZ), and the presidency of the national assembly (SDS) were divided amongst the three largest parties, making Izetbegovic's position a function of partisan politics, not an anti-Abdic conspiracy.

199 posted on 06/28/2006 4:04:41 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite

And your source is? Because I couldn't find a single source supporting your assertions. All of those I searched support Abdic as the clear winner and should have assumed the presidency, but didn't.


200 posted on 06/28/2006 4:44:40 PM PDT by Bokababe (www.savekosovo.org)
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