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Sahara Desert Was Once Lush and Populated
LiveScience ^ | 20 July 2006 | Bjorn Carey

Posted on 07/20/2006 3:55:53 PM PDT by Marius3188

At the end of the last Ice Age, the Sahara Desert was just as dry and uninviting as it is today. But sandwiched between two periods of extreme dryness were a few millennia of plentiful rainfall and lush vegetation.

During these few thousand years, prehistoric humans left the congested Nile Valley and established settlements around rain pools, green valleys, and rivers.

The ancient climate shift and its effects are detailed in the July 21 issue of the journal Science.

When the rains came

Some 12,000 years ago, the only place to live along the eastern Sahara Desert was the Nile Valley. Being so crowded, prime real estate in the Nile Valley was difficult to come by. Disputes over land were often settled with the fist, as evidenced by the cemetery of Jebel Sahaba where many of the buried individuals had died a violent death.

But around 10,500 years ago, a sudden burst of monsoon rains over the vast desert transformed the region into habitable land.

This opened the door for humans to move into the area, as evidenced by the researcher's 500 new radiocarbon dates of human and animal remains from more than 150 excavation sites.

(Excerpt) Read more at livescience.com ...


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; Unclassified
KEYWORDS: climatechange; desert; environment; globalwarming; godsgravesglyphs; sahara
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This will at least confirm the Water Erosion on the Sphinx, and give it a better timeline and change some scholars minds, as they prefer not to change their theory that Khafra (Chephren) built the Sphinx..

BTW, perhaps this will also describe how the Sahara has Crocs in it.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/06/0617_020618_croc.html

1 posted on 07/20/2006 3:55:54 PM PDT by Marius3188
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To: blam

Hopefully this will help in the dating of the Sphinx..water ping


2 posted on 07/20/2006 3:56:53 PM PDT by Marius3188 (Happy Resurrection Weekend)
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To: Marius3188

and now it's not cause of Global Warming which is all George Bush's fault! --Albert Gore


3 posted on 07/20/2006 3:57:47 PM PDT by MIchaelTArchangel
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To: Marius3188
Disputes over land were often settled with the fist,

Ah, the good old days.

4 posted on 07/20/2006 3:58:09 PM PDT by Kenny Bunkport (Israel is doing the Lordís work.)
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To: Marius3188
So was Detroit.

/h

5 posted on 07/20/2006 3:59:38 PM PDT by IllumiNaughtyByNature (My Pug is On Her War Footing (and moving to Texas!))
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To: Marius3188

Women and Children Hardest Hit


6 posted on 07/20/2006 3:59:43 PM PDT by lormand (Kill terrorists on the battlefield)
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To: Marius3188

Yes. It was a pre-historic golf resort and jungle area. That is until my wife (old 'brown thumb') became the caretaker.


7 posted on 07/20/2006 3:59:54 PM PDT by lawdude (To Colmes - It ain't rocket surgery!)
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To: Marius3188

It's Bush's fault.


8 posted on 07/20/2006 4:01:11 PM PDT by pogo101
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To: Marius3188

SUVs?


9 posted on 07/20/2006 4:02:05 PM PDT by rahbert
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ping for future.
10 posted on 07/20/2006 4:03:17 PM PDT by Jedi Master Pikachu ( http://www.answersingenesis.org)
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To: SunkenCiv

ping


11 posted on 07/20/2006 4:03:50 PM PDT by BenLurkin ("The entire remedy is with the people." - W. H. Harrison)
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To: Marius3188

Many parts of the world were greener than they are. The Romans did serious deforestation when they arrived in various colonies (such as Spain). And Al Gore wasn't even a gleam in his father's eye...


12 posted on 07/20/2006 4:04:50 PM PDT by livius
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To: Marius3188; All

13 posted on 07/20/2006 4:06:05 PM PDT by BenLurkin ("The entire remedy is with the people." - W. H. Harrison)
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To: BenLurkin

Red dots are human habitatations


14 posted on 07/20/2006 4:07:05 PM PDT by BenLurkin ("The entire remedy is with the people." - W. H. Harrison)
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To: Marius3188

Amazing, so that could date the Sphinx at more than 5000 years old? Wouldn't that also indicate the existence of advanced civilizations prior to the Mesopotamians and Indus River Civilizations? Exciting.


15 posted on 07/20/2006 4:08:09 PM PDT by phoenix0468 (http://www.mylocalforum.com -- Go Speak Your Mind.)
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To: Marius3188

I'm curious to know the positions, locations, and condition of the human remains found there.


16 posted on 07/20/2006 4:08:55 PM PDT by Fester Chugabrew
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To: phoenix0468

I would hope so, probably close to 12,000 years old or older.


17 posted on 07/20/2006 4:09:31 PM PDT by Marius3188 (Happy Resurrection Weekend)
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To: Marius3188

Have you read anything about the temple in Yonaguni Jaban? It has been estimated to be over eight thousand years old. As it was built while the land was dry, which was over eight thousand yaers ago.


18 posted on 07/20/2006 4:15:48 PM PDT by phoenix0468 (http://www.mylocalforum.com -- Go Speak Your Mind.)
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To: Marius3188
" would hope so, probably close to 12,000 years old or older."

The beginning of the end of the last Ice Age.

19 posted on 07/20/2006 4:17:17 PM PDT by blam
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To: Marius3188
Sahara

Climate History

"The climate of the Sahara has undergone enormous variation between wet and dry over the last few hundred thousand years. During the last ice age, the Sahara was bigger than it is today, extending south beyond its current boundaries[1]. The end of the ice age brought wetter times to the Sahara, from about 8000 BCE to 6000 BCE, perhaps due to low pressure areas over the collapsing ice sheets to the north[2]."

"Once the ice sheets were gone, the northern part of the Sahara dried out. However, not long after the end of the ice sheets, the monsoon which currently brings rain to the Sahel came further north and counteracted the drying trend in the southern Sahara. The monsoon in Africa (and elsewhere) is due to heating during the summer. Air over land becomes warmer and rises, pulling cool wet air in from the ocean. This causes rain. So, paradoxically, the Sahara was wetter when it recieved more insolation in the summer. In turn, changes in solar insolation are caused by changes in the Earth's orbital parameters."

"By around 2500 BCE, the monsoon retreated south to approximately where it is today[3], leading to the desertification of the Sahara. The Sahara is currently as dry as it was about 13,000 years ago.[4]

20 posted on 07/20/2006 4:25:07 PM PDT by blam
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To: Marius3188

Rainer Stadelmann has worked on the plateau for years, and his view is that Khufu (Khafre's daddy) built the Sphinx. That's a nice dodge, because it fits what little pharaonic documentation survives, and there's only one known portrait of Khufu (it's about three inches tall, a seated figure). Other Egyptologists persist in their unfounded, baseless belief (which originated in modern times) that Khafre built the Sphinx.


21 posted on 07/20/2006 4:43:13 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Wednesday, June 21, 2006. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv
Hah...is that Zahi Hawass is dictating these days?
22 posted on 07/20/2006 4:47:02 PM PDT by Marius3188 (Happy Resurrection Weekend)
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To: phoenix0468
No ~ finding habitations does not necessarily mean you have an "advanced civilization". More often than not it's just another house or storage building.

The reason we tend to date civilization itself from Sumer is simply that the Sumerians were the folks who invented record keeping.

23 posted on 07/20/2006 5:13:57 PM PDT by muawiyah (-/sarcasm)
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To: SunkenCiv
The Sphinx consists of two parts, not one. The first part is the head ~ this piece of limestone was there before the second part, which is the body, was "carved" out of rock left behind as other rock was cut into cubes for use in a pyramid.

Given that the head looks remarkably like a mushroom, I can give you several reasons why the ancient Egyptians "saved it".

24 posted on 07/20/2006 5:17:30 PM PDT by muawiyah (-/sarcasm)
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To: muawiyah

OIC, that does make sense.


25 posted on 07/20/2006 6:45:53 PM PDT by phoenix0468 (http://www.mylocalforum.com -- Go Speak Your Mind.)
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To: Marius3188

Zahi "Zowie" Hawass will always be my favorite, because no one could write jokes that funny. ;')


26 posted on 07/20/2006 8:51:27 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Wednesday, June 21, 2006. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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:') You are too kind. Here's a snip from Herodotus regarding Lake Tritonis, which had declined to marshes by his time.
"Histories"
Book IV "Melpomene"

Herodotus
tr by George Rawlinson
The sea-coast beyond the Lotophagi is occupied by the Machlyans, who use the lotus to some extent, though not so much as the people of whom we last spoke. The Machlyans reach as far as the great river called the Triton, which empties itself into the great lake Tritonis. Here, in this lake, is an island called Phla, which it is said the Lacedaemonians were to have colonised, according to an oracle.

The following is the story as it is commonly told. When Jason had finished building the Argo at the foot of Mount Pelion, he took on board the usual hecatomb, and moreover a brazen tripod. Thus equipped, he set sail, intending to coast round the Peloponnese, and so to reach Delphi. The voyage was prosperous as far as Malea; but at that point a gale of wind from the north came on suddenly, and carried him out of his course to the coast of Libya; where, before he discovered the land, he got among the shallows of Lake Tritonis. As he was turning it in his mind how he should find his way out, Triton (they say) appeared to him, and offered to show him the channel, and secure him a safe retreat, if he would give him the tripod. Jason complying, was shown by Triton the passage through the shallows; after which the god took the tripod, and, carrying it to his own temple, seated himself upon it, and, filled with prophetic fury, delivered to Jason and his companions a long prediction. "When a descendant," he said, "of one of the Argo's crew should seize and carry off the brazen tripod, then by inevitable fate would a hundred Grecian cities be built around Lake Tritonis." The Libyans of that region, when they heard the words of this prophecy, took away the tripod and hid it.

The next tribe beyond the Machlyans is the tribe of the Auseans. Both these nations inhabit the borders of Lake Tritonis, being separated from one another by the river Triton. Both also wear their hair long, but the Machlyans let it grow at the back of the head, while the Auseans have it long in front. The Ausean maidens keep year by year a feast in honour of Minerva, whereat their custom is to draw up in two bodies, and fight with stones and clubs. They say that these are rites which have come down to them from their fathers, and that they honour with them their native goddess, who is the same as the Minerva (Athene) of the Grecians. If any of the maidens die of the wounds they receive, the Auseans declare that such are false maidens. Before the fight is suffered to begin, they have another ceremony. One of the virgins, the loveliest of the number, is selected from the rest; a Corinthian helmet and a complete suit of Greek armour are publicly put upon her; and, thus adorned, she is made to mount into a chariot, and led around the whole lake in a procession. What arms they used for the adornment of their damsels before the Greeks came to live in their country, I cannot say. I imagine they dressed them in Egyptian armour, for I maintain that both the shield and the helmet came into Greece from Egypt. The Auseans declare that Minerva is the daughter of Neptune and the Lake Tritonis -- they say she quarrelled with her father, and applied to Jupiter, who consented to let her be his child; and so she became his adopted daughter. These people do not marry or live in families, but dwell together like the gregarious beasts. When their children are full-grown, they are brought before the assembly of the men, which is held every third month, and assigned to those whom they most resemble...

Thus from Egypt as far as Lake Tritonis Libya is inhabited by wandering tribes, whose drink is milk and their food the flesh of animals. Cow's flesh, however, none of these tribes ever taste, but abstain from it for the same reason as the Egyptians, neither do they any of them breed swine. Even at Cyrene, the women think it wrong to eat the flesh of the cow, honouring in this Isis, the Egyptian goddess, whom they worship both with fasts and festivals. The Barcaean women abstain, not from cow's flesh only, but also from the flesh of swine.

West of Lake Tritonis the Libyans are no longer wanderers, nor do they practise the same customs as the wandering people, or treat their children in the same way. For the wandering Libyans, many of them at any rate, if not all -- concerning which I cannot speak with certainty -- when their children come to the age of four years, burn the veins at the top of their heads with a flock from the fleece of a sheep: others burn the veins about the temples. This they do to prevent them from being plagued in their after lives by a flow of rheum from the head; and such they declare is the reason why they are so much more healthy than other men. Certainly the Libyans are the healthiest men that I know; but whether this is what makes them so, or not, I cannot positively say -- the healthiest certainly they are. If when the children are being burnt convulsions come on, there is a remedy of which they have made discovery. It is to sprinkle goat's water upon the child, who thus treated, is sure to recover. In all this I only repeat what is said by the Libyans.

The rites which the wandering Libyans use in sacrificing are the following. They begin with the ear of the victim, which they cut off and throw over their house: this done, they kill the animal by twisting the neck. They sacrifice to the Sun and Moon, but not to any other god. This worship is common to all the Libyans. The inhabitants of the parts about Lake Tritonis worship in addition Triton, Neptune, and Minerva, the last especially.

27 posted on 07/20/2006 10:22:30 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Wednesday, June 21, 2006. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: 75thOVI; AndrewC; Avoiding_Sulla; BenLurkin; Berosus; CGVet58; chilepepper; ckilmer; demlosers; ...
Catastrophism

28 posted on 07/20/2006 10:23:15 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Wednesday, June 21, 2006. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: blam; FairOpinion; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 24Karet; 3AngelaD; ...
To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

29 posted on 07/20/2006 10:23:34 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Wednesday, June 21, 2006. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv
http://www.ryan-silva.com/world/desert/desert.htm

The Western Desert and the oases at Farafra and Bahariyya

(snip)

As it happened, as we waited for our hotel room to be readied we sat down next to Zahi Hawass, the famously egotistical Director of Antiquities in Egypt. Julie leaned over to ask him, "excuse me, are you..." and was unable to finish before he proudly declared, "yes, I am!"

The White Desert is remarkable for its white rock formations called inselbergs, carved into unlikely shapes by wind and sand...


30 posted on 07/21/2006 1:27:57 AM PDT by Fred Nerks (Read the bio THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD free! Click Fred Nerks for link to my Page.)
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To: Marius3188

The skull of 110 million-year-old Sarcosuchus imperator dwarfs a 20-inch (50-centimeter) adult skull of the living Orinoco crocodile (Crocodylus intermedius). Newly discovered fossils in the Sahara suggest that it took 50 to 60 years for Sarcosuchus to reach its maximum adult size, estimated to be 37 to 40 feet (11 to 12 meters) in length and up to 8 metric tons (17,500 lbs).

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2001/10/1025_supercroc2.html

31 posted on 07/21/2006 3:38:46 AM PDT by Fred Nerks (Read the bio THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD free! Click Fred Nerks for link to my Page.)
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To: Marius3188
You mean that Sphinx is 10-12 thousand years old ? What proofs do supporters of this theory have ? That would completely change the whole ancient history.
32 posted on 07/21/2006 3:53:51 AM PDT by Grzegorz 246
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To: Marius3188

Interesting set of Sphinx photos (some showing restoration work) here:

http://guardians.net/egypt/sphinx/


33 posted on 07/21/2006 4:09:15 AM PDT by elli1
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To: phoenix0468
Amazing, so that could date the Sphinx at more than 5000 years old? Wouldn't that also indicate the existence of advanced civilizations prior to the Mesopotamians and Indus River Civilizations? Exciting.

It was pointed out in the article that the Nile river valley was heavily populated as much as 22,000 years ago, and the population pressure was one influence in the migrations into the "newly" greened sahara savannahs...

This would infer that there may have been "civilization" of some sort in the Nile river valley prior to the emergence of the Phaoronic era of 10,500 BC..
Rivers flowed out of the Saharan savannahs into the Nile valley.. They were undoubtedly used for travel and trade..
And river channels change..
We know that the Nile river channel ran very close to the location of the Sphinx and the Pyramids at one time..
The present river channel is farther away...
A traveller during the savannah period would have passed downriver well within eyesight of the then existing Sphinx / Lion..
An excellent landmark delineating a territorial boundary or site of a civilization's main city and port of trade..

It is my personal belief that the Sphinx was originally in the shape of a Lion, and the head had absolutely no resemblence to a human, pharoanic or otherwise..
The recarving of the existing structure was done at a later time...

I believe you are justified in thinking there was an earlier civilization or society prior to the historically famous egyption one..
It may not have been as "glorious" or powerful as the later Pharoanic society, but glorious enough in it's own right, with population and trade centers, agriculture, and religion, politics, etc..
With the desertification of the Sahara that civilization may have fallen to the "barbarian invasion" returning from the dying savannahs..
Those barbarians then developed into the society we now know as ancient egypt..

34 posted on 07/21/2006 4:17:20 AM PDT by Drammach (Freedom... Not just a job, it's an adventure..)
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To: Fred Nerks

A related formation is called yarddang. Or, maybe it is the same thing. The Sphinx itself was probably one of these before the stone carvers got at it.


35 posted on 07/21/2006 8:08:05 AM PDT by RightWhale (Repeal the law of the excluded middle)
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To: Marius3188
There is no indication as to why the monsoon conditions came to and left the Sahara? What happened?
36 posted on 07/21/2006 8:38:20 AM PDT by Citizen Tom Paine (An old sailor sends)
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To: Marius3188

...and the Bush stole the election!


37 posted on 07/21/2006 8:38:54 AM PDT by BibChr ("...behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, so what wisdom is in them?" [Jer. 8:9])
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To: SunkenCiv

Thanks for the ping. A green Sahara is not exactly news to those on the ping list, but it's an interesting article nevertheless.


38 posted on 07/21/2006 9:25:46 AM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: colorado tanker

:')


39 posted on 07/21/2006 9:43:05 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Wednesday, June 21, 2006. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: zot

Ping. As an earlier poster noted, this could help tighten the date range for the water erosion on the Sphinx...


40 posted on 07/21/2006 11:12:24 AM PDT by Interesting Times (ABCNNBCBS -- yesterday's news.)
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To: Interesting Times

Thanks for the ping. Yes, it might help tighten dating of the Sphinx and necessarily set the date earlier than this period of rainfall. I also note that the Sahara was dry during the last "ice age" -- not covered with ice.


41 posted on 07/21/2006 12:53:46 PM PDT by zot (GWB -- the most slandered man of this decade)
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To: Marius3188
Sahara Desert Was Once Lush and Populated

...but the people ignored Kyoto and just kept driving their SUVs.

42 posted on 07/21/2006 12:56:15 PM PDT by TChris (Banning DDT wasn't about birds. It was about power.)
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To: livius
The Romans did serious deforestation when they arrived in various colonies (such as Spain).

I can't imagine Spain used to have forests, having visited Spain myself. Do you have a source to elaborate all that?

43 posted on 07/21/2006 12:56:36 PM PDT by MinorityRepublican (Everyone that doesn't like what America and President Bush has done for Iraq can all go to HELL)
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To: phoenix0468
Have you read anything about the temple in Yonaguni Jaban?

Actually, I just finished reading about Yonaguni in a book called, 'Underworld'. Excellent read. They had a skeptical geologist dive with them on the site, and give all the possible natural explanations. But he never was able to rule out the possibility that they were man-made.

So it remains an open question, as far as I am aware.

Personally, I think it is a man-carved structure. But more research is necessary to establish that for sure.

44 posted on 07/21/2006 1:11:04 PM PDT by Dominic Harr (Conservative = Careful, as in 'Conservative with money')
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To: Marius3188
Also, the Mediterranean was once a lot lower as North America was the North Pole and covered with Ice as thick as Antarctica.

Antarctica was habitable. The Mediterranean coastline was a lot lower and thus there were many towns and villages along its then shore, now buried under water.

No one knows what lies beneath the Black Sea. Suffice to say, its waters were also a lot lower and the Yalta peninsula extended further than it does today.
45 posted on 07/21/2006 7:42:40 PM PDT by Prost1 (We can build a wall, we can evict - "Si, se puede!")
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To: Marius3188

Ditto to that comment


46 posted on 07/21/2006 9:55:18 PM PDT by Dustbunny (Amazing Grace how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me)
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To: Marius3188

If the Sphinx is really much older has hinted by the water erosion, other conjectures may also be wrong. If information about importance of the star Sirius (the dog star) is in fact true, perhaps the Sphinx is a resting dog, not a lion. Any thoughts on this?


47 posted on 07/21/2006 11:53:16 PM PDT by gleeaikin
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To: Marius3188
Does anyone have a map of the rivers that use to flow in the Sahara? I believe they were mapped through sonar.

Also, I know that there is lots of proof that the Sahara use to flourish but what is the proof that it was a desert before that? Anyway, very extreme change in a short amount of time.

48 posted on 07/21/2006 11:56:59 PM PDT by Bellflower (A Brand New Day Is Coming!)
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To: phoenix0468

"Wouldn't that also indicate the existence of advanced civilizations prior to Mesopotamia and Indus River?"

If you are not already aware of the writings of Graham Hancock, you should make his acquaintance. He also has an on line forum. Long before I ever heard of him I thought fairly well developed settlements must have been flooded when the great meltings of the last ice age and the Younger Dryas took place. Before then the Mediterranean was two very large inland seas. Then the water rose and flooded through Gibralter. Was that Noah's flood?


49 posted on 07/22/2006 12:04:50 AM PDT by gleeaikin
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To: blam

"The beginning of the end of the last Ice Age."

Actually, the end of the cooling of the Younger Dryas. There was a warmer phase between 18,000 years ago and the YD, 12,500 years ago.

This probably explains the orthodoxy problem in North America, where archeologist stopped looking when they found Clovis points. The Clovis were probably part of the post YD recovery. Now that they are digging deeper they are finding older remains, 14 and 15,000 years old.


50 posted on 07/22/2006 12:10:08 AM PDT by gleeaikin
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