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While US flying Becomes More Painful, El Al Continues Effective Security
Bettnet.com ^ | 8/13/06 | Domenico Bettinelli

Posted on 08/14/2006 1:52:34 PM PDT by marshmallow

Doing more thinking about the new, more onerous restrictions on what you can carry on board flights today, I’m reminded that El Al, as far as I’ve been able to tell, has never had an in-air attack on one of its aircraft via a weapon smuggled on board. How do they do it? After all, they are target Number One of every Islamic terrorist in the world. And they don’t do it by making every passenger submit to multiple indignities and force them to fly bereft of their possessions.

The difference is that while the Transportation Security Administration screens out weapons, El Al screens out terrorists. While the TSA would not mind a weaponless terrorist on board a US flight, El Al on the other hand has no problem with a regular civilian with a potential weapon.

And they do it with a tool that the TSA, the Bush administration, and the entire left-wing establishment refuses to use: Profiling.

What El Al does to secure its flights

For decades El Al has taken its security much more seriously than the US ever has. When you check in for an El Al flight, their representative will ask you so many questions, you’ll wonder if you’re taking a flight or applying for a job. Not just the silly “Did you pack your bags” questions either, but detailed inquiries into your reason for flying, where you are coming from, your background, your job, and so on. (Here’s an October 2001 USA Today article on El Al’s security screening.) And once on board, there’s even more security, including armed guards.

El Al knows that they have much more to fear from a 35-year-old college-educated Muslim from Saudi Arabia who has spent time in Pakistan and who has a chemical engineering degree and a history of attendance at radical mosques than they do from a 90-year-old grandmother from Winchester, Illinois, carrying a bottle of Gatorade on board to stay hydrated on her flight. Heck, Grandma Millie (that’s really Melanie’s grandmother) would probably be allowed to board carrying a machete.

Reading the 10/01 article, I’m dismayed at what we’ve failed to do and lessons not learned in the past five years.

For Americans considering an end to free and easy flying in the USA, El Al provides a glimpse of what might lie ahead after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. [Unfortunately, not an accurate prediction.] ... Despite their current anxieties, Americans also might balk at El Al-style ethnic profiling. Staff scrutinize the passengers’ names, dividing them into low-risk (Israeli or foreign Jews), medium-risk (non-Jewish foreigners) and extremely high-risk travelers (anyone with an Arabic name). These people automatically are taken into a room for body and baggage checks and lengthy interrogation. Single women also are considered high-risk, for fear they might be used by Palestinian lovers to carry bombs.

To sift out who is who, screeners usually begin by asking passengers whether they understand any Hebrew, which most Jews do. Officials argue that such blatant discrimination is necessary.

... In fact, El Al’s security kicks in long before the passenger will notice. Call an El Al office in any city to book a ticket, and your name will be checked against a computer list of terrorist suspects compiled by Interpol, the FBI, Shin Bet (Israel’s intelligence service) and others.

... Once you board, up to five armed undercover agents will travel with you in strategic aisle seats, ready for attack. Furthermore, like many Israelis, cabin crews are former soldiers in the Israeli military who have received combat training. The cockpit door, of reinforced steel, is locked from the inside before passengers board and is opened only after everyone has disembarked at their destination. No matter what’s going on in the rest of the plane, it is never opened during flight.

... By El Al’s standards, my screening was light — only 10 minutes of questioning by two well-paid officials with full military training. It ended with one of them locking all the zippers on my suitcase with plastic ties.

... A lot happens behind the scenes, too. Once luggage moves from the check-in desk to the conveyer belt, it is put in a pressurized box that detonates any explosive before the bag is loaded on the plane, Dror says. No unaccompanied bags are allowed. Those bags remain behind.

By contrast, our new government bureaucracy has given us pat-downs of 10-year-old girls, grandmothers forced to remove their shoes, mothers forced to taste test their own bottled breast milk, and hundreds of thirsty passengers forced to sit through transcontinental flights without books, music, or movies to pass the time. All because we don’t want to take the politically incorrect step of profiling. I’m glad political correctness trumps safety and convenience.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: airlinesecurity; elal; mdm; wot
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Posted for those of you who've been caught up in the past week's ridiculous security shemozzle (as I was).

Apparently my daughter's asthma medicine is now considered a national security threat and as a result, was trashed.

Cheers!

1 posted on 08/14/2006 1:52:35 PM PDT by marshmallow
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To: marshmallow

The Israelis know how to take care of business. We only know how to take care of political correctness. God help us, it will take another 9/11 to change us.


2 posted on 08/14/2006 2:00:19 PM PDT by Sender (“Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today.”)
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To: marshmallow

I wish I'd though of booking El Al for our flight to Europe in three weeks. But no - we're on British Airways, changing planes at Heathrow.

Aw hell.


3 posted on 08/14/2006 2:00:21 PM PDT by Argus
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To: marshmallow

We have indulged in the sham of airline security since long before 9/11. Recent events haven't changed a thing. Neither the TSA, DHS, nor the Bush Administration are serious about airline security as long as profiling is not part of the security procedures. Making grannies and 4 year-old children take their shoes off while Middle Eastern men between the ages of 17 and 40 walk through the "security" screening untouched, is just BS.

Until we get serious about screening and quit the "Show 'n Tell" method of security screening that makes idiots think they are safe aboard commercial aircraft, we will be attacked and threatened again.


4 posted on 08/14/2006 2:00:31 PM PDT by DustyMoment (FloriDUH - proud inventors of pregnant/hanging chads and judicide!!)
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To: marshmallow
I am ao sorry about your daughter.

BUMP.

5 posted on 08/14/2006 2:01:15 PM PDT by MarMema
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To: marshmallow

Something to factor in, is Israeli air traffic is insignificant compared to ours. They don't have a lot of people or airports to deal with. - tom


6 posted on 08/14/2006 2:02:27 PM PDT by Capt. Tom (Don't confuse the Bushies with the dumb Republicans - Capt. Tom)
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To: marshmallow

I have experienced, firsthand, what an El Al security check is since I flew from Budapest to Tel Aviv at the end of April 2006. It is a bit disconcerting at first but it is all for the safety of the passengers and crew members. That is why we choose El Al in the first place! It took about 10 minutes, but it seemed like hours, and it was done in an extremely respectful and friendly manner. I enjoyed the flight, touring the country and coming back with El AL to Budapest to continue my holidays. Would fly with them every chance I get. Try them, you will love them!


7 posted on 08/14/2006 2:06:40 PM PDT by Jocko from Canada
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To: marshmallow

I always thought the proper response was "Carry your gun if you've got it." Or maybe handing out knives or batons to passengers as they boarded. After 9/11, everyone knows that the government's lies about "just relax and don't fight back; we'll take care of you" was a bunch of BS. The terrorists would have to know there would be a bunch more flight 93's if the people on board knew it was up to them.


8 posted on 08/14/2006 2:06:49 PM PDT by MichiganConservative (Government IS the problem.)
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To: marshmallow
We are living in a fantasy world of denial.

The terrorists will be successful if they can get us to alter our lives to meet their threats.

Which is exactly what the P.C. elite are doing for them.

9 posted on 08/14/2006 2:08:28 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration (Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth? (Gal.4:16))
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To: Capt. Tom

We also have a lot more security personnel than they do. Their procedures are more efficient and sensible. If we adopted them universally, we would see a lot less of the chaos we're witnessing right now at British airports with cancelled flights and travellers trapped for days on end. But that would require inconveniencing some Muslims, so we're stuck with what we have.


10 posted on 08/14/2006 2:09:06 PM PDT by Argus
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To: Jocko from Canada

What are El Al's fares like, compared to other carriers?


11 posted on 08/14/2006 2:10:32 PM PDT by Argus
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To: marshmallow
I'd do profiling in a heartbeat, if it would be sufficient. The problem with profiling is that it underestimates the evil of the terrorists.

Here's the obvious scenario (not original with me): A team of half a dozen terrorists get together. They find a little old blue-haired grandmother who has a daughter, son-in-law, and granddaughter. They kidnap the family, and before the grandmother's eyes murder the son-in-law. Then they tell her she will either take their weapon on board a plane, or they will murder her daughter and granddaughter. Some of them stay with the daughter/granddaughter to make sure the grandmother doesn't back out.

How do you stop that? You make it clear that the little old blue-haired ladies are no less likely to be searched than obvious terrorists. That way, there is no incentive to find a 'low-risk' mule to carry something on board.

My suggestion would be to use profiling not to decide whom to search, but so that those fitting a terrorist profile are restricted to very few flights. Make such restrictions as requiring no carry on baggage at all for those flights, and make it clear that there would be guards on each.

Then tell those inconvenienced in that way that they need to get on the clerics of their profession and get them to condemn instead of glorify terrorism.
12 posted on 08/14/2006 2:13:08 PM PDT by Gorjus
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To: Capt. Tom

Last I checked El Al had something like 36 or 38 planes in their fleet TOTAL

More planes than that take off out of Santa Ana PER HOUR, I’d bet.

Santa Ana is a relatively small and insignificant airport compared to some others like Atlanta or DFW or whatever.

Yes, if you have a tiny fleet of anything it’ll be much easier to protect.


The people that squeal for having to remove their shoes would really kick up sand if they had to undergo a legitimate interrogation prior to boarding.


13 posted on 08/14/2006 2:14:51 PM PDT by Who dat?
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To: marshmallow

You daughter's medicine isn't considered a national security threat. It was not possible for them to confirm what it was, and they decided it best to let you trash it vs taking a chance on your possibly sneaking liquid exposives aboard an airplane. Sorry, but they found that very scenario was going to be used by the terrorists in Britain.



On Sat, I flew and, knowing my meds and such were a potential problem, I put them in my checked luggage. Obviously not everyone had been aware of that resolution, and some require immediate access to the meds. But what else could they do?


14 posted on 08/14/2006 2:15:36 PM PDT by theDentist (Qwerty ergo typo : I type, therefore I misspelll.)
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To: Argus
"We also have a lot more security personnel than they do. "

What WE have, thanks to the Democrats, is union-controlled TSA (to buy Union votes with taxdollars), and crying about inspections of EVERY shipping container (by Union Longshoreman, of course).

I believe that because any of these issues are NATIONAL SECURITY ISSUES, NO Union thugs or members should be allowed to be hired for them. We don't need ANY special interest security forces whatsoever.

15 posted on 08/14/2006 2:17:25 PM PDT by traditional1
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To: marshmallow

Thanks for the info, so, I may not be able to take my rescue inhaler onboard the airplane? I mention it, because I'm flying to Orlando in less than a week.


16 posted on 08/14/2006 2:18:30 PM PDT by stylin_geek (Liberalism: comparable to a chicken with its head cut off, but with more spastic motions)
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To: Gorjus

Part of effective profiling is not just in looking at ethnicity, it is looking at stress and fear. That blue-haired grandma forced to carry a bomb is going to be a stress meltdown. She is going to show. And she is going to fess up under interviewing. Bomb off, plane safe.


17 posted on 08/14/2006 2:20:49 PM PDT by Sender (“Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today.”)
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To: Who dat?
The people that squeal for having to remove their shoes would really kick up sand if they had to undergo a legitimate interrogation prior to boarding.

We don't need to interrogate everyone, just those who have a high probability of being a threat. And that would be YMMs. Background check them, carefully search them and their belongings, and interrogate them before allowing them to board. Re-evaluate when War on Islamic Terror is over or if Islamic terror strategy changes.

18 posted on 08/14/2006 2:21:14 PM PDT by Spiff (Death before Dhimmitude)
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To: marshmallow
I thought that the Dems' "you can't professionalize unless you federalize" argument for creating TSA was supposed to get professionals like El Al has. Instead we got a bunch of brain dead unionized civil servants who frisk grandma.

I'm kidding of course. I expected the brain dead civil servants.

19 posted on 08/14/2006 2:21:55 PM PDT by KarlInOhio ("Advertisements... contain the only truths to be relied on in a newspaper" - Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Gorjus

In your scenario, I doubt that the blue-hair who has to blow up a plane or have her family killed is going to act just like she's on just another routine flight. That's where profiling behavior would have to be done. A few minutes of interrogation should identify that her behavior is a bit odd. But, if we think some TSA flunky is going to be able to do that, I think we're mistaken.


20 posted on 08/14/2006 2:22:00 PM PDT by MichiganConservative (Government IS the problem.)
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To: theDentist
You daughter's medicine isn't considered a national security threat. It was not possible for them to confirm what it was, and they decided it best to let you trash it vs taking a chance on your possibly sneaking liquid exposives aboard an airplane. Sorry, but they found that very scenario was going to be used by the Islamic terrorists in Britain.

If Marshmallow and daughter were not YMMs, then it was terribly stupid to take the Asthma inhaler away for ANY other reason.

And I've fixed your last sentence for you.

21 posted on 08/14/2006 2:23:55 PM PDT by Spiff (Death before Dhimmitude)
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To: DustyMoment
The problem is not TSA, DHS & the Bush administration.
Its the "Plague of Lawyers" that will spring into action at the slightest perception of discrimination. We have allowed egalitarianism to be such a sacred concept that we now blindly follow it to our detriment.
TSA, DHS etc bureaucrats are just reacting defensively to this plague. Look bureaucrat bashing is a favorite past time on FR but 99% of these people actually want to do the right thing when it comes to airport security. However fear of as a minimum having one's career ruined or as a maximum one's life ruined by the 'aggrieved discrimination victim' does not encourage intelligent vigilance. Much of this plague we have allowed to occur because we as a society have allowed the culture of victimolgy to talk root. (A lot of it is pure greed and classy envy on the publics part, where they look at a corporation or individual and see 'deep pockets'!)
22 posted on 08/14/2006 2:24:09 PM PDT by Reily
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To: marshmallow

BTTT


23 posted on 08/14/2006 2:26:09 PM PDT by Unicorn (Too many wimps around.)
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To: Argus

Same here...going on BA from here to Gatwick, and then connecting on another BA flight in Heathrow...going to be be FUN....


24 posted on 08/14/2006 2:31:58 PM PDT by USMMA_83 (Tantra is my fetish ;))
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To: Argus

You know how many muslims live in britain? The inconvenience wouldnt be to 'some' muslims, and the rioting in the streets that would follow would be unpleasant to say the least. You know what happened in bradford just a few years ago?


25 posted on 08/14/2006 2:36:38 PM PDT by ketelone
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To: MichiganConservative
In your scenario, I doubt that the blue-hair who has to blow up a plane or have her family killed is going to act just like she's on just another routine flight. That's where profiling behavior would have to be done. A few minutes of interrogation should identify that her behavior is a bit odd. But, if we think some TSA flunky is going to be able to do that, I think we're mistaken.

In my line of work, I fly a lot. I hardly know where I'm going to be going next, in fact, and fly at least twice a month. And I've observed that the security measures taken to secure air travel are just plain idiotic. They've secured NOTHING.

There is no end to the objects and substances that Muslim terrorists can bring on board an airplane and kill the passengers or wreck the thing. Our methods for screening for dangerous objects include only honesty (law-abiding, non-terrorists voluntarily give up certain items or substances for no good reason), X-rays for some checked baggage and all carry-ons (detects only SOME dangerous objects), metal detectors for passengers (detects only metal objects - does not detect ceramic blades, for instance), and very expensive explosives sniffer devices (detects only some specific types of explosive substances). NONE of those methods and NONE of the current methods would stop a Muslim terrorist from carrying out a slightly modified version of the most recent liquid/gel plot.

The only sane screening method is to target the population demographic that is responsible for 99.99% of terrorist acts. The only sane thing we're doing is deploying armed Air Marshals on some flights. But the policies under which Air Marshals must operate have reduced their effectiveness considerably.

26 posted on 08/14/2006 2:37:36 PM PDT by Spiff (Death before Dhimmitude)
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To: ketelone

Why should the threat of "rioting" prevent us from protecting airliners from terrorists? Right now they're inconveniencing EVERYBODY and there's no riots. Maybe the rest of us should have the uprising.


27 posted on 08/14/2006 2:39:17 PM PDT by Argus
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To: Sender
Be nice if it were that easy. And sometimes I'm sure it would be that easy. But there would be exceptions. "Oh, officer, I'm just afraid to fly."

And of course, there would never be any repercussions for mercilessly interrogating innocent little old ladies who were 'just a little nervous' about flying. (And if you don't think the liberal press would characterize it that way, you're living in a different world than I live in.)

But in fact, you're making my point. Even little old ladies need to be subject to scrutiny, so that the terrorists don't even try to use them as mules.
28 posted on 08/14/2006 2:44:22 PM PDT by Gorjus
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To: stylin_geek

If the inhaler has a prescription label with a name, it is permitted.

Permitted Exceptions: Baby formula and breast milk if a baby or small child is traveling; prescription medicine with a name that matches the passenger’s ticket; up to 8 oz. of liquid or gel low blood sugar treatment and up to 4 oz. of non-prescription liquid medications.


29 posted on 08/14/2006 2:45:27 PM PDT by Kirkwood
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To: Gorjus
Even little old ladies need to be subject to scrutiny, so that the terrorists don't even try to use them as mules.

MAYBE we'll do that if we see any actual possibility, plans, or attempts to use a little old lady as a mule. Until then, how about we focus on the actual perps and leave the blue hairs alone.

30 posted on 08/14/2006 2:46:01 PM PDT by Spiff (Death before Dhimmitude)
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To: marshmallow
I saw on a recent trip the Guardia Civil (Spanish police)at Barajas airport in Madrid interrogating 3 " middle Eastern" men & families off to the side with shoes removed, pockets turned inside out, documents spread all over a table, carry on luggage unpacked, before they were allowed to go thru security.The Spaniards profile - why doesn't the U.S.?
31 posted on 08/14/2006 2:46:38 PM PDT by Apercu ("Res ipsa loquitur")
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To: marshmallow
The new carry-on rules are a real pisser for multi-night business travelers [like myself]. We no longer can carry-on our 2-3 days worth of clothes + bathroom things. We have to check these and wait for baggage claim (while hoping that the bags aren't 'lost') which can tack on an extra 20 minutes to my travel time. In the business world, this is very expensive as I used to be able to use this time to go pick up my rental car.

Additionally, I'm sure many restaurants in airports are seeing declining sales. I used to get my dinner at the airport after arriving if I had an afternoon/evening flight, but I do this no more as I have to retrieve my baggage and can not re-enter to go to the restaurant.

32 posted on 08/14/2006 2:49:29 PM PDT by xrp (Fox News Channel: MISSING WHITE GIRL NETWORK)
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To: marshmallow
And they do it with a tool that the TSA, the Bush administration, and the entire left-wing establishment refuses to use: Profiling.

Amen.

33 posted on 08/14/2006 2:54:01 PM PDT by surely_you_jest
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To: All

I have a theory on the reluctance to profile.

First...what does a Middle Eastern male look like?

They can be all types of colors,...skin types...
some light, some dark, some may look like a black
American male.

Therein lies the problem.

If you think the likes of Jesse Jackson,Al Sharpton,Louis
Farrakhan are making noise now....imagine what will happen when they start pulling aside young American black males for
questioning before they board a plane.


34 posted on 08/14/2006 2:56:00 PM PDT by markoman (The man with the rubber glove was....surprisingly gentle.)
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To: Sender; kabar; sinkspur; GunRunner; zook; highball
The Israelis know how to take care of business. We only know how to take care of political correctness.

You've got THAT right.

35 posted on 08/14/2006 2:57:43 PM PDT by Lazamataz (Islam is a perversion of faith, a lie against human spirit, an obscenity shouted in the face of G_d)
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To: Who dat?

Everyone flying out of TLV regardless of airline is screened
like that. BG airport was packed the time I have flown into
or out of there.


36 posted on 08/14/2006 2:57:45 PM PDT by rahbert
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To: markoman
If you think the likes of Jesse Jackson,Al Sharpton,Louis Farrakhan are making noise now....imagine what will happen when they start pulling aside young American black males for questioning before they board a plane.

While I have some sympathy, I no longer give a damn.

37 posted on 08/14/2006 2:58:33 PM PDT by surely_you_jest
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To: surely_you_jest

Believe me.....I have no sympathy either.

It needs to be done.


38 posted on 08/14/2006 3:00:32 PM PDT by markoman (The man with the rubber glove was....surprisingly gentle.)
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To: Kirkwood

Well, great, I don't know that my inhaler has a prescription label on it. The pharmacy normally puts it on the box.

I'll have to call about it and make sure. Typical government garbage. Maximum inconvenience without increasing actual security.

I've hated flying since 9/11. Especially since I've been pulled aside and searched on more than one occasion, yet, I'm obviously a middle aged white guy who hardly fits the profile of a terrorist.


39 posted on 08/14/2006 3:00:42 PM PDT by stylin_geek (Liberalism: comparable to a chicken with its head cut off, but with more spastic motions)
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To: marshmallow
How do they do it? After all, they are target Number One of every Islamic terrorist in the world. And they don’t do it by making every passenger submit to multiple indignities and force them to fly bereft of their possessions.

The difference is that while the Transportation Security Administration screens out weapons, El Al screens out terrorists. While the TSA would not mind a weaponless terrorist on board a US flight, El Al on the other hand has no problem with a regular civilian with a potential weapon.

What an absolute load of crap.

http://www.iaa.gov.il/Rashat/en-US/Airports/BenGurion/InformationforTravelers/SecurityInstructions/

(FYI: I couldn't get the web page to work right with firefox)

If you fly out of Ben Gurion Airport in Tel Aviv, the recommend that you arrive three hours prior to your flight.

It is prohibited to carry sharp tools or utensils, such as pocketknives, scissors, nail files, etc, in your handbags or on your body.

Entering the terminal with a personal weapon is absolutely prohibited!

As the author mentions they are going to ask you lots of questions. They aren't going to only ask those questions if the person appears to be an Arab.

They do not just rely on profiling to pick out the most obvious candidates, the screen everyone considerably more throughly than we do here in the US.

If you think the procedures we go through here consist of suffering through indignities, you're going to face even more indignities there than you do here.

The author acts like flying out of Israel an American would fact less hassle boarding a plane than they do here, however the facts they present don't support that.

The author claims that profiling is used instead of the cumbersome regulations we use here. However, the evidence doesn't support that either.

While the government in the US avoids using the term profiling, they unquestionably do profile passengers looking for suspicious things. They endeavor to avoid messy, and generally useless legal battles by avoiding explicit "racial profiling". However, they do have different policies regarding citizens of different countries, and the FBI does investigate people who have a lot of ties to suspicious people in foreign countries, and such suspicions can land someone on the no fly list.

I'm not arguing against profiling. I think it's an excellent tool to use to concentrate limited resources on the highest risk passengers. I also believe it is a tool the TSA does use, though I think they should be able to use it more broadly than they have explicitly been allowed.

By contrast, our new government bureaucracy has given us pat-downs of 10-year-old girls, grandmothers forced to remove their shoes, mothers forced to taste test their own bottled breast milk, and hundreds of thirsty passengers forced to sit through transcontinental flights without books, music, or movies to pass the time.

Children can be overly trusting and susceptible to strangers asking them to carry something through security for them.

While suicidal terrorists tend to be young and idealistic, the elderly can also be extremists, and I've known a number of grandmothers that would be likely to carry something through security for someone who asked nicely without even considering the implications.

The foolish, and rather short lived, provision about tasting the contents of bottles was removed long ago.

Beverages are provided on flights, there no reason for passengers to go thirsty.

Books as well as electronic devices for playing music and video were not banned.

All because we don’t want to take the politically incorrect step of profiling. I’m glad political correctness trumps safety and convenience.

Profiling in Israel has not removed the need for banning certain items on planes there, and the more time consuming questioning they perform reduces convenience.

This article is seriously lacking in accuracy and honesty.

marshmallow: Apparently my daughter's asthma medicine is now considered a national security threat and as a result, was trashed.

If it was a prescription medication it should have been allowed.

They have now updated the regulations so that even if it is an over the counter medication it will be allowed if it contains 4 oz or less.

Their hastily made new regulations in the face of a specific threat did have some shortcomings. However, they are getting better at making changes to them relatively quickly.

Here's a couple useful links at the TSA website with more information. http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/prohibited/new-items.shtm http://tsa-7.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/tsa.cfg/php/enduser/std_alp.php

40 posted on 08/14/2006 3:01:21 PM PDT by untrained skeptic
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To: marshmallow

Maybe we should outsource the TSA to Israel.


41 posted on 08/14/2006 3:02:31 PM PDT by pleikumud
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To: ketelone

You know how many muslims live in britain? The inconvenience wouldnt be to 'some' muslims, and the rioting in the streets that would follow would be unpleasant to say the least. You know what happened in bradford just a few years ago?


---

Riots can easily be contained through the widespread use of live ammo, fragmentation grenades, and flamethrowers.


42 posted on 08/14/2006 3:04:33 PM PDT by gogogodzilla (I criticize everyone... and then breath some radioactive fire and stomp on things.)
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To: marshmallow

Bump


43 posted on 08/14/2006 3:08:29 PM PDT by TankerKC (Step Back! Doors Closing.)
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To: KarlInOhio
I'm kidding of course. I expected the brain dead civil servants.

Doing a little fishing are we?

Most civil servants I know are pretty normal and decent people. The bureaucracies are truly mystifying.

From what I can see, the TSA will never hold a candle to the post office monster. I was watching a friend deliver mail once from accross the street, and he had a bureaucrat three paces behind him counting each step.

44 posted on 08/14/2006 3:10:05 PM PDT by Tom Bombadil (Be careful of boomerang words that circle back and hit you in the head.)
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To: Argus
Well, if you're getting on El Al here in the states, you'll still have to go through [US] government mandated screening to get to the gate. I doubt they have a special El Al only passenger line through the TSA.

Although, they might, I say - MIGHT - give you a little slack if they know you're flyinh El Al.

45 posted on 08/14/2006 3:16:22 PM PDT by AFreeBird (... Burn the land and boil the sea's, but you can't take the skies from me.)
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To: Sender; Lazamataz
The Israelis know how to take care of business. We only know how to take care of political correctness. God help us, it will take another 9/11 to change us.

It's El Al that insists on such procedures, not the "Israelis." When we visited Israel in March, those who checked us in asked some questions, but did not open and check any of our bags after they went through the scanner, though they checked the bags of others in our group. Indeed, they checked the bags of the Jewish passengers more intently than they did ours. We flew Continental out of Tel Aviv.

Bettenelli leaves the impression that no one but Arabs have their bags or shoes checked. That is simply not true, based on our experience.

46 posted on 08/14/2006 3:17:52 PM PDT by sinkspur (Today, we settled all family business.)
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To: marshmallow
Despite their current anxieties, Americans also might balk at El Al-style ethnic profiling. Staff scrutinize the passengers' names, dividing them into low-risk (Israeli or foreign Jews), medium-risk (non-Jewish foreigners) and extremely high-risk travelers (anyone with an Arabic name). These people automatically are taken into a room for body and baggage checks and lengthy interrogation.

"Americans might balk at El Al-style ethnic profiling"? I'm laughing so hard I'm crying. Oh wait, I'm just crying.

47 posted on 08/14/2006 3:19:11 PM PDT by jiggyboy (Ten per cent of poll respondents are either lying or insane)
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To: Lazamataz
Let's get real. For the year ending March 2006, El Al carried 3.6 million scheduled passengers compared to 2005 figures for Delta's 118 million, American's 98 million, Southwest's 88 million, US Airways 71 million, United's 67 million, Northwest's 52 million, Continential's 40 million, etc. There is no way we could manage that passenger volume using El Al procedures.
48 posted on 08/14/2006 3:38:58 PM PDT by kabar
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To: kabar
There is no way we could manage that passenger volume using El Al procedures.

Exactly. The Tel-Aviv airport is deserted except at certain times when tourists are coming and going, and most of the tourists and other business people do not come into Israel on El-Al.

We noticed Israeli security folks digging through the bags of American non-Hasidic Jews and were surprised by it, especially when they didn't look through the bags of over half the pasty-faced white couples who went on our tour.

49 posted on 08/14/2006 3:49:21 PM PDT by sinkspur (Today, we settled all family business.)
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To: Who dat?
The people that squeal for having to remove their shoes would really kick up sand if they had to undergo a legitimate interrogation prior to boarding.

This person that "squeals for having to remove their shoes" (or more precisely, refuses to fly and now drives instead) does so not because airport security is an affront to dignity but because it is an affront to dignity that is put on for show and doesn't have anything to do with terrorism.

The indignities of an El Al type check are inflicted for the sake of real security which makes them infinitely more tolerable.

50 posted on 08/14/2006 3:50:30 PM PDT by CGTRWK
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