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Plane Crashes in Lexington
WTVQ 36 Lexington ^ | August 27, 2006 | Jon Sasser

Posted on 08/27/2006 4:38:10 AM PDT by BigBlueJon

Edited on 08/27/2006 5:02:21 AM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]

Possible plane crash in Lexington, KY. My brother works security for Lexington UK Hospital and was just called in. No news locally or on major news outlets yet. I didn't want to post anything for fear of being wrong, but he's still waiting for an official call while on stand-by.

Update from WTVQ 36 Lexington:

A plane has crashed near the Blue Grass Airport this morning. No word on details at this time. We are told it was a commercial aircraft. Versailles Road is blocked as emergency vehicles circle around the site. We have live coverage beginning at 7:20am. Stay with Action News 36 for more details.


TOPICS: Breaking News; News/Current Events; US: Kentucky
KEYWORDS: airplane; bluegrassairport; comair; crash; delta; dl5191; kentucky; lex; lexington; plane; planecrash; terribletragedy; wreck
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To: BigBlueJon

I used to pilot these planes years ago. The engines were pretty reliable, from an operator's standpoint, anyway. The MFD overheated easily, but I'm sure that wasn't an issue in the morning. I didn't care for the braking system -- seemed inadequate.

Fully loaded with gas, passengers and luggage, and on a short runway, it could be a scary takeoff, even when things went right.

Prayers for the victims and possible survivor. Hopefully he can shed light on what happened...


251 posted on 08/27/2006 7:41:32 AM PDT by BP2 (I think, therefore I'm a conservative)
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To: brothers4thID

I have a terrible sinking feeling that this was not a 'natural' accident, but that someONE caused it (probably those Norwegian Amish people!!)--it will be interesting to see the passenger manifest...pass the tin foil, but it sure does seem that lately there has been an unusual rash of airplane indidents--too many to be simply 'coinkydink', if you know what I mean! Possible feelers into the American airlines, looking for weaknesses and exploiting them if possible?


252 posted on 08/27/2006 7:41:56 AM PDT by pillut48 (CJ in TX (Bible Thumper and Proud!))
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To: Moose4
Live in Lexinton, and have flown in/out of there many many times. We are now starting to get some live aerial video, but still cannot see the plane itself. But from where the emergency vehicles are, it is just off runway 26 (short runway, parallel to Versailles road). Of course they could have taken off runway 22 (over Keeneland), and had a problem and turned back toward the airport. This would have also put them about where the crash was. So still too early to know. But with the runway resurfacing last weekend, that would be a strange coindicence if not a factor. Might contribute to using a wrong runway if that turns out to be the cause.

Weather wise, local TV is showing a small thunderstorm close to the airport right around 6am this morning. Said that they took off under VFR conditions.

253 posted on 08/27/2006 7:42:18 AM PDT by gswilder
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To: BluH2o; dawn53

My pals in Perth, West Australia like to tell about the Garuda (Indonesian...horrible reputation) international flight tried to land on the highway outside of the airport - the pilot thought it was the runway.


254 posted on 08/27/2006 7:42:48 AM PDT by ErnBatavia (Meep Meep)
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To: BenLurkin

The local news outlets could not take off due to the crash. The airport was shut down and they couldn't get to the helicopters or planes. Louisville's WAVE 3 had a chopper in the area but the airspace was restricted.


255 posted on 08/27/2006 7:43:24 AM PDT by wallace144
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To: BP2

Someone just speculated on Fox News that the plane was partially intact and that the pilot may have been able to land the plane. The explosion was possibly after ground contact, and not immediately on impact.


256 posted on 08/27/2006 7:43:40 AM PDT by BigBlueJon (Superman wears Jack Bauer pajamas to bed.......Jack Bauer wears George W pajamas.)
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To: pillut48

There is absolutely NOTHING to suggest this is terrorism. This plane crashed half a mile from the runway.

Take off the tin-foil hats, guys.


257 posted on 08/27/2006 7:44:42 AM PDT by jcs1744
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To: jcs1744
/26 is only 3500 ft. That's actually not too much room for a fully-loaded CRJ. In fact, it's doubtful that a safe takeoff could be executed since the the MTOW runway length is 5800 ft for the CRJ-200. My question is why was takeoff not aborted once the pilots realized they were running out of room, instead of forcing the a/c into the sky before reaching Vr.

From Post 11.....

Runway 8/26 Dimensions: 3500 x 75 ft. / 1067 x 23 m Surface: asphalt/concrete, in poor condition CONC IS SEVERELY CRACKED. Weight bearing capacity: Single wheel: 12500 lbs

258 posted on 08/27/2006 7:44:52 AM PDT by OBXWanderer
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To: SLB

My dentist also is a dental examiner and one of my dad's closest friends.


259 posted on 08/27/2006 7:45:27 AM PDT by ashamedtobefromparkridge
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Live video: Not much left of the fuselage. Looks like the pilots thought they had a chance to find a flat surface on the top of the hill and skidded very briefly, but tangled up into a thin treeline. The engines are sitting in a small rainwash gulley that the treeline borders, and only the cockpit and a bit of additional fuselage remain lying on their side.


260 posted on 08/27/2006 7:45:34 AM PDT by StAnDeliver
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To: gswilder

It is hard to tell, but it seems like runway 26 points towards a hillside.

A CRJ may not have been able to climb out over that.


261 posted on 08/27/2006 7:47:42 AM PDT by Erik Latranyi (The Democratic Party will not exist in a few years....we are watching history unfold before us.)
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To: StAnDeliver
Live video: Not much left of the fuselage.

Source?

262 posted on 08/27/2006 7:49:03 AM PDT by Erik Latranyi (The Democratic Party will not exist in a few years....we are watching history unfold before us.)
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To: pillut48
I have a terrible sinking feeling that this was not a 'natural' accident, but that someONE caused it (probably those Norwegian Amish people!!)--it will be interesting to see the passenger manifest...pass the tin foil, but it sure does seem that lately there has been an unusual rash of airplane indidents--too many to be simply 'coinkydink', if you know what I mean! Possible feelers into the American airlines, looking for weaknesses and exploiting them if possible?

All indications point to the fact that the pilot took off on the wrong runway. His name, I believe, is Jeff Hays. Doesn't sound like your run of the mill terrorist.

263 posted on 08/27/2006 7:49:10 AM PDT by NittanyLion
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To: Chuck54
You may need to coffee up. I took that comment as sarcasm w/o the tag.

If you can understand that guys drivel, you must be one of those characters that can find the visage of the Virgin Mary on a slice of mushroom pizza.

264 posted on 08/27/2006 7:49:12 AM PDT by Stentor (It's almost 1992. Do you know where your Clinton is?)
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To: Erik Latranyi

At a normal takeoff speed and climb rate, there would be no problem making it over that hill.


265 posted on 08/27/2006 7:49:23 AM PDT by jcs1744
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To: StAnDeliver

I don't know if they carry only the fuel they need (plus reserves) for each leg, or they fill up at the beginning of the day and just use it as they go back and forth. A CRJ can carry well over 1,000 gallons of jet fuel...if it was fully fueled, there's not going to be much left of it after that gets through burning.

}:-)4


266 posted on 08/27/2006 7:49:56 AM PDT by Moose4 (Dirka dirka Mohammed jihad.)
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To: jcs1744
At a normal takeoff speed and climb rate, there would be no problem making it over that hill.

But they would not have achieved normal takeoff speed with the shorter runway.

267 posted on 08/27/2006 7:50:52 AM PDT by Erik Latranyi (The Democratic Party will not exist in a few years....we are watching history unfold before us.)
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To: don-o

hey don-o...

You're up early today. My friend just emailed me to say that her daughter wasn't on the plane. I'm so grateful. That was the first I heard of it. Wasn't even on Drudge. I tipped him though... Thank me.


268 posted on 08/27/2006 7:51:12 AM PDT by Jo Nuvark (Those who bless Israel will be blessed, those who curse Israel will be cursed. Gen 12:3)
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To: jcs1744

Like I said, just a gut feeling! Too many 'dots not connected' with all these recent problems with planes!


269 posted on 08/27/2006 7:52:36 AM PDT by pillut48 (CJ in TX (Bible Thumper and Proud!))
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Also reported that the survivor was another pilot utilitzing the jump seat to get to Atlanta.


270 posted on 08/27/2006 7:54:29 AM PDT by StAnDeliver
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To: BP2
I've noticed recently that the planes are FULL. Hardly a seat to be had.

Is this the airlines answer to increase the revenue, sell all the unsold seats three days before the flight on Orbitz, Hotwire, Travelocity etc??? That fills the plane up and does increase revenue. It doesn't cost any more to fly it with ten seats empty than it does with those ten seats full, even at a reduced fare.

Second question: If it was overloaded would it go in tail first and leave the pilot as the survivor?

Fox is saying that there was something that happened at the end of the runway. The momentum of the plane would carry it a half mile I would think.
271 posted on 08/27/2006 7:54:47 AM PDT by Battle Axe (Repent for the coming of the Lord is nigh!)
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To: StAnDeliver

Have the said the pilots name yet, the survivor?


272 posted on 08/27/2006 7:57:25 AM PDT by lula ( Islam IS the Anti-Christ)
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To: BigBlueJon

Another update:

(AP) -- Comair President Don Bornhorst has told a news briefing he cannot confirm a report the plane that crashed this morning in Lexington could have been using the wrong runway.

Blue Grass Airport Executive Director Mike Gobb said earlier this morning that the airport's shorter, 3,500 foot runway, should not have been used for the loaded Comair flight. It has not been officially reported that the shorter runway was used.

Fayette County Coroner Gary Ginn says it will be several hours before the bodies of the victims of this morning's plane crash near Lexington's airport are removed. At least 49 died. One survivor is reported in critical condition at the UK Hospital.

The Comair flight bound for Atlanta crashed a half-mile from the end of a runway just after departting Lexington at 6:10 eastern time this morning.

http://www.wlextv.com/Global/story.asp?S=5331173&nav=menu203_1_1


273 posted on 08/27/2006 7:57:29 AM PDT by jdm (I gotta give the Helen Thomas obsession a rest.)
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To: Battle Axe

A full flight is not overloaded. All aircraft have very generous safety margins built-in.

Every seat occupied is no less safe than 1/2 full.


274 posted on 08/27/2006 7:57:51 AM PDT by Erik Latranyi (The Democratic Party will not exist in a few years....we are watching history unfold before us.)
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To: Battle Axe

Just talked to pilot who frequently flies out of Bluegrass Airport (non-commercial).

He says it is a bit confusing and he could see how mistake made by pilot, especially during early morning hours. However, not sure why ATC did not provide warning.

Looks to be pilot error at this point.

Prayers for all who lost loved ones.


275 posted on 08/27/2006 7:57:51 AM PDT by louisville slugga
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To: lula
No. The Comair president reported the actual pilot's name as Jeffrey Clay -- but not the pilot sitting in the jump seat. They just said he was a male.
276 posted on 08/27/2006 7:58:52 AM PDT by StAnDeliver
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To: Erik Latranyi
"A full flight is not overloaded. All aircraft have very generous safety margins built-in.

Every seat occupied is no less safe than 1/2 full."



You are right. Thanks for the clarification.
277 posted on 08/27/2006 8:01:19 AM PDT by Battle Axe (Repent for the coming of the Lord is nigh!)
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To: Battle Axe

Well, it's all speculation, but the pilots could have realized at the last second they were running out of pavement and rotated, and the plane have enough momentum to "bunny hop" into the air before stalling and dropping again. If they only made it a half mile, at takeoff speed they'd cover that distance in 15-20 seconds or less. Fully loaded, they'd have no chance to get it off the ground in 3500 feet and keep it in the air.

It probably hit something at a fairly flat angle or in a slight descent (tail low), it wouldn't have had the time or the room to drop the nose a whole lot, I'd imagine. If it crashed in a field, though, and didn't plow through a lot of trees, I'm somewhat surprised there weren't more survivors, even with a massive postcrash fire.


278 posted on 08/27/2006 8:01:58 AM PDT by Moose4 (Dirka dirka Mohammed jihad.)
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To: StAnDeliver
I know a Delta pilot who flies those plane and is based out of Atlanta. His first name is Doug, I can't get a hold of my contacts yet. OMG!
279 posted on 08/27/2006 8:02:25 AM PDT by lula ( Islam IS the Anti-Christ)
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To: louisville slugga

Flight crews are human and they do make mistakes.

Sometimes, like all of us, flight crews rush to get through the day.

I wonder where this flight crew was based and what their schedule for the day was going to be. That may support or deny my theory of a rush-job.


280 posted on 08/27/2006 8:03:16 AM PDT by Erik Latranyi (The Democratic Party will not exist in a few years....we are watching history unfold before us.)
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To: Erik Latranyi
Fox news said that they were overnighted there and were the first flight in the a.m. But that the crew was well within the rest limits of the FEDS and that airline.
281 posted on 08/27/2006 8:05:18 AM PDT by Battle Axe (Repent for the coming of the Lord is nigh!)
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To: Moose4

I believe you have the scenario correct.

I am also curious with regard to the passengers being able to escape.

I can only imagine a scenario where the impact jammed all four doors on the plane, trapping everyone.


282 posted on 08/27/2006 8:05:46 AM PDT by Erik Latranyi (The Democratic Party will not exist in a few years....we are watching history unfold before us.)
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To: leadpenny
580 is prop, right?

Yep. Basically the same airframe as the CV-240/340/440 series, but either converted to or built as turboprop. The company I used to work for had (probably still has) one for conducting flight tests of various electronic systems. I participated in a series of data collection flights to prove some new (to us anyway) radar signal processing technologies. I started out as the "navigator". I had written a program to calculate an IP and "fly to point" given our altitude, airspeed and wind speed and direction, that would result in our pointing the fixed radar at the desired target area. Originally they were going to implement the algorithm on the test equipments computer, but instead I ended up running it on a laptop sitting in a passenger type seat just behind the cockpit. The nav system operator would read me the winds from the last pass, I'd run the program (which I'd pre loaded with other parameters, and I'd read off the IP and fly-to for the flight crew to input into their separate (but FAA certified) nav system.

Due to other folks getting pulled off for higher priority tasks, I ended up as the flight test engineer on the later flights. Didn't mean anything, the techs knew what they were doing without me telling them. This was all about 10 or 12 years ago.

283 posted on 08/27/2006 8:06:12 AM PDT by El Gato
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To: Battle Axe

I have no doubt they were rested.

However, I have personally witnessed (and chastised) flight crews rushing to depart from a particular airport.


284 posted on 08/27/2006 8:07:27 AM PDT by Erik Latranyi (The Democratic Party will not exist in a few years....we are watching history unfold before us.)
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To: Battle Axe

FoxNews is too focused on the engines. They are ignoring the short runway senario.


285 posted on 08/27/2006 8:09:33 AM PDT by Erik Latranyi (The Democratic Party will not exist in a few years....we are watching history unfold before us.)
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To: Erik Latranyi
...FoxNews is too focused on the engines...

The problem with 24/hr news channels is they have to fill air time and they usually do that by just blathering on and on. The airhead newsreaders come up with their own "brilliant" hypothesis.

It's maddening to watch so I don't.

286 posted on 08/27/2006 8:11:48 AM PDT by FReepaholic (This tagline could indicate global warming.)
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To: Erik Latranyi

The flight crew aren't going to be the only ones with things to answer for here. If the tower was manned, and since the weather was clear (6 mile visibility), I'm going to be interested to find out what the tower controller(s) were doing. I know the final responsibility is always with the captain and flight crew, but I do wonder if an observant tower controller (especially at a low-traffic time like 0600) could have seen Comair 191 turning onto the wrong runway and advised them of the mistake.

}:-)4


287 posted on 08/27/2006 8:12:16 AM PDT by Moose4 (Dirka dirka Mohammed jihad.)
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To: Moose4

You make a great point! The tower is partially responsible for the mistake (if that is what happened).

Unfortunately, the final report will blame pilot error.


288 posted on 08/27/2006 8:15:51 AM PDT by Erik Latranyi (The Democratic Party will not exist in a few years....we are watching history unfold before us.)
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To: Moose4

I've heard the visibility mentioned at 8 miles several times--doesn't sound like the weather caused this to happen!

Pilot error or 'pile o' terror'?


289 posted on 08/27/2006 8:15:53 AM PDT by pillut48 (CJ in TX (Bible Thumper and Proud!))
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To: RaceBannon
But, I doubt this is terror, the plane is too small to be a high value target.

True, but a CRJ climbing out of Lexington, KY is certainly a softer target than a 757 climbing out of O'Hare.
290 posted on 08/27/2006 8:15:55 AM PDT by Old_Mil (http://www.constitutionparty.org - Forging a Rebirth of Freedom.)
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To: Battle Axe
I've noticed recently that the planes are FULL. Hardly a seat to be had. Is this the airlines answer to increase the revenue, sell all the unsold seats three days... That fills the plane up and does increase revenue.

YEP, RJ's "give more options to the traveller," OR so the airline exec will tell you. You can offer 3 departure times, versus just one, if you're operating a 737 out of a smaller airport. RJs also cheaper to fly and maintain -- you can keep the seats full and you PAY the pilots a LOT less. I HATE travelling as a PASSENGER in an RJ -- too cramped, bumpy and hot.

Second question: If it was overloaded would it go in tail first and leave the pilot as the survivor?

As a pilot, this sounds like a crash you'd prefer -- if any. Tail hits first, then nose, then breakup and with any luck, the hardened cockpit area and 5-point seat harness will help protect you in a roll. There's plenty of front crewmembers who have survived throughout aviation history, when passengers did not. Survivor's Guilt is a problem later, but at least they're alive.

Aviation's a risky business, but then again, so is driving on the road.

291 posted on 08/27/2006 8:17:22 AM PDT by BP2 (I think, therefore I'm a conservative)
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To: BP2

Looks like the wrong runway.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N27272288.htm


292 posted on 08/27/2006 8:22:04 AM PDT by spanalot
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To: BigBlueJon
Didn't Pussy Galore's flying circus stage out of that airport?
293 posted on 08/27/2006 8:23:25 AM PDT by jmq (Islam=Religion of Peace)
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To: Erik Latranyi

I thought the NTSB forms all had "pilot error" already filled in. :)

Seriously, I'm not a pilot, but I'm having trouble understanding how this mistake could be made, assuming there's proper signs at the taxiway/runway intersections, that they looked at the airport diagram during taxi, that the pilots actually looked at their gyro/compass, any number of other things. But we're humans, and we're fallible...and we'll have to wait for the NTSB to get to work to get to the bottom of it.

}:-)4


294 posted on 08/27/2006 8:23:39 AM PDT by Moose4 (Dirka dirka Mohammed jihad.)
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To: spanalot

If this was a case of taking off on the wrong runway, the next question is how long was this crew's layover last night? Were they rested? Did they do a standing overnight with 3 or 4 hours in the hotel before being run back out to the jet?


295 posted on 08/27/2006 8:24:12 AM PDT by Old_Mil (http://www.constitutionparty.org - Forging a Rebirth of Freedom.)
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To: Old_Mil

Using Google earth, the crash site is .24 miles off the end of runway 8/26 (shorter one). Local news is starting to get some unofficial


296 posted on 08/27/2006 8:34:52 AM PDT by gswilder
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To: Jo Nuvark
You're up early today.

I was. Woke up early, and flipped on the radio.

Drudge is SO yesterday. (Gargle)

297 posted on 08/27/2006 8:35:23 AM PDT by don-o (Proudly posting without reading the thread since 1998. (stolen from one cool dude))
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To: BP2

298 posted on 08/27/2006 8:38:36 AM PDT by BigBlueJon (Superman wears Jack Bauer pajamas to bed.......Jack Bauer wears George W pajamas.)
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To: Erik Latranyi
You make a great point! The tower is partially responsible for the mistake (if that is what happened). Unfortunately, the final report will blame pilot error.

Everytime I attend an FAA Safety Seminar, the speaker (usually a controller) always mentions the fact that "If I screw up..., I feel bad but, at least I GO HOME..., YOU MAY NOT BE SO LUCKY!"

VERY TRUE!!!

299 posted on 08/27/2006 8:38:46 AM PDT by ExSES (the "bottom-line")
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To: gswilder
Google Map of Airport

Given the runway alignments, I can't imagine there is much mystery here. You can see the out buildings on a straight line from the short runway.
300 posted on 08/27/2006 8:38:51 AM PDT by Daus
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