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Katherine Harris: God Didn't Want Secular U.S.
NewsMax ^ | 27 August 2006

Posted on 08/27/2006 7:01:21 AM PDT by Aussie Dasher

U.S. Rep. Katherine Harris told a religious journal that separation of church and state is "a lie" and God and the nation's founding fathers did not intend the country be "a nation of secular laws."

The Florida Republican candidate for U.S. Senate also said that if Christians are not elected, politicians will "legislate sin," including abortion and gay marriage.

Harris made the comments - which she clarified Saturday - in the Florida Baptist Witness, the weekly journal of the Florida Baptist State Convention, which interviewed political candidates and asked them about religion and their positions on issues.

Separation of church and state is "a lie we have been told," Harris said in the interview, published Thursday, saying separating religion and politics is "wrong because God is the one who chooses our rulers."

"If you're not electing Christians, then in essence you are going to legislate sin," Harris said.

Her comments drew criticism, including some from fellow Republicans who called them offensive and not representative of the party.

Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, D-Fla., who is Jewish, told the Orlando Sentinel that she was "disgusted" by the comments.

Harris' campaign released a statement Saturday saying she had been "speaking to a Christian audience, addressing a common misperception that people of faith should not be actively involved in government."

The comments reflected "her deep grounding in Judeo-Christian values," the statement said, adding that Harris had previously supported pro-Israel legislation and legislation recognizing the Holocaust.

Harris' opponents in the GOP primary also gave interviews to the Florida Baptist Witness but made more general statements on their faith.

Harris, 49, faced widespread criticism for her role overseeing the 2000 presidential recount as Florida's secretary of state.

State GOP leaders - including Gov. Jeb Bush - don't think she can win against Democratic Sen. Bill Nelson in November. Fundraising has lagged, frustrated campaign workers have defected in droves and the issues have been overshadowed by news of her dealings with a corrupt defense contractor who gave her $32,000 in illegal campaign contributions.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: 1stamendment; churchandstate; congress; congresswoman; firstamendment; florida; foundingfathers; god; harris; katherinrharris; secular; wallofseparation
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This will send the liberal left into a frenzy but she's got more than a fair point!
1 posted on 08/27/2006 7:01:22 AM PDT by Aussie Dasher
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To: Aussie Dasher

Katherine Harris is discovering that if you persist in telling the Truth, you WILL be caught! ;)


2 posted on 08/27/2006 7:06:40 AM PDT by mkjessup (The Shah doesn't look so bad now, eh? But nooo, Jimmah said the Ayatollah was a 'godly' man.)
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To: Aussie Dasher
I am reading a book called "The Anonymous God" which details (in a Lutheran way) the civil religion of the US and how it is undermining Christianity as a whole. Appears that Ms. Harris knows that as well.
3 posted on 08/27/2006 7:06:46 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: Aussie Dasher

My big question has been: Why have Florida Republican's allowed this big mess over fielding viable candidate to oppose the Democrat, Nelson, happen? Where has Jeb Bush been on this? why hasn't he shown any leadership? Perhaps this is his way of demonstrating that he really doesn't want to be president of the USA.


4 posted on 08/27/2006 7:07:54 AM PDT by GreyFriar ( (3rd Armored Division - Spearhead))
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To: Aussie Dasher
Posted yesterday from the WAPO

Posted by Luis Gonzalez
On News/Activism 08/26/2006 8:08:02 AM CDT · 166 replies · 2,459+ views

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1690353/posts

5 posted on 08/27/2006 7:08:11 AM PDT by Condor51 (Better to fight for something than live for nothing - Gen. George S. Patton)
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To: Aussie Dasher
Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, D-Fla., who is Jewish, told the Orlando Sentinel that she was "disgusted" by the comments.

Since when is this Liberal NOT "disgusted"? Debbie probably starts every day "disgusted". Especially trying to get a comb through that bale of hay on her head.

6 posted on 08/27/2006 7:08:40 AM PDT by digger48
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To: Aussie Dasher
This will send the liberal left into a frenzy but she's got more than a fair point!

It has also sent FReepers into a frenzy too, short of their heads exploding.

Harris nails it.

7 posted on 08/27/2006 7:09:45 AM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist (404 Page Error Found)
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To: Aussie Dasher
Thank God this woman has balls.

8 posted on 08/27/2006 7:09:46 AM PDT by XR7
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To: Aussie Dasher

She's definitely right, but she just handed the Left a hammer to hit her in the head.


9 posted on 08/27/2006 7:10:45 AM PDT by hershey
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To: Aussie Dasher

Good I hope her saying that really p****s off the liberals. THAT is what most Americans want to hear from conservatives. And what she said is 100% true.


10 posted on 08/27/2006 7:10:56 AM PDT by TexasPatriot8 (Irrational is the person who is offended by the mention of a God that he doesn't believe exists.)
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To: Aussie Dasher

Some voters don't want the truth. They can't stand the truth. We are commisioned to let our (really His) light shine (in our lives) and liberals want to play whack-a-mole with it.


11 posted on 08/27/2006 7:11:14 AM PDT by BipolarBob (I get homesick when I look up in the skies and see my home planet.)
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To: GreyFriar
Why have Florida Republican's allowed this big mess over fielding viable candidate to oppose the Democrat, Nelson, happen?

All of the "viable" Florida Republicans refused to run in the race, yet they have the gall to trash Harris for running.

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

12 posted on 08/27/2006 7:13:07 AM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist (404 Page Error Found)
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To: Aussie Dasher
This will send the liberal left into a frenzy but she's got more than a fair point!

The only fair point is about separation of church and state. Her charge about if Christians are not elected, politicians will "legislate sin," is pure crap and another reason she will be trounced in November.

13 posted on 08/27/2006 7:14:28 AM PDT by Dave S
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To: hershey
She's definitely right, but she just handed the Left a hammer to hit her in the head.

They (and GOP insiders) have been trashing her since she filed to run. What else is new?

14 posted on 08/27/2006 7:14:42 AM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist (404 Page Error Found)
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To: Aussie Dasher
That's the end of her political career. Let me see, if we are not electing Christians we are electing sinners. I guess in her world Christian's are without sin. Next, let's ask her what type of Christians? Are they from the north or South? Ohhh boy....
15 posted on 08/27/2006 7:17:13 AM PDT by USMMA_83 (Tantra is my fetish ;))
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To: Aussie Dasher

> God and the nation's founding fathers did not intend the country be "a nation of secular laws."

And yet... that's what the founding fathers created.

I guess God's pretty ineffective in Harris' mind.


16 posted on 08/27/2006 7:17:35 AM PDT by orionblamblam (I'm interested in science and preventing its corruption, so here I am.)
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Comment #17 Removed by Moderator

To: Dave S

She's toast. If I were in Florida, I'd go all out against her for saying what she said. As a Hin-Jew, I'd hit her hard.


18 posted on 08/27/2006 7:18:53 AM PDT by USMMA_83 (Tantra is my fetish ;))
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To: Aussie Dasher

It would help if she actually read the Constitution she swore to uphold.


19 posted on 08/27/2006 7:20:35 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: Aussie Dasher

Foolish comment, and frankly this is why the party has little love for her.

Sorry, there are more than Christians in the Republican party. One does not have to be religious to value freedom, fairness, and personal responsibility that the Democrats fail to provide.


20 posted on 08/27/2006 7:22:29 AM PDT by zendari
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To: Aussie Dasher

So if we elect those that profess Christianity, they will legislate what exactly?

If you inject Christianity into politics, you taint Christianity. The best way to ensure the restoration of Christianity as the basis for this country's policies is though straight conversion of the people, not through taking over the government.

Do we want the election of those such as Pat Robertson, Jimmy Swaggart or Benny Hinn? Would that be going in the right direction?


21 posted on 08/27/2006 8:16:58 AM PDT by Ottofire (Fire Tempers Steel)
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To: Ottofire

Judeo-Christian America bump


22 posted on 08/27/2006 8:35:51 AM PDT by onedoug
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To: Ottofire

"The best way to ensure the restoration of Christianity as the basis for this country's policies is though straight conversion of the people, not through taking over the government."

That's the most sensible thing I've read regarding religion and government on this forum. Well stated, ottom.


23 posted on 08/27/2006 8:39:36 AM PDT by gcruse (http://gcruse.typepad.com)
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To: Aussie Dasher
Even if nobody else follows the Rules around here, I do!


She needs to take her stirrups up a notch, though.

-ccm

24 posted on 08/27/2006 8:57:35 AM PDT by ccmay (Too much Law; not enough Order)
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To: zendari

FR posters have an unworkably narrow definition of Christianity. What Harris is saying (as if you did not know) is that atheists in positions of power see only themselves as the final moral authority. Those with western religious roots recognize, and are tempered in their actions by, a higher authority. No one is saying Christians do not sin. The whole concept of sin is a central tenet of Christianity, as is man's imperfectability.

I live in Florida. Harris is getting my vote. Katherine Harris has demonstrated her character on more than one occasion. The Republicans down here are all RINO's including the President's brother. And the liberal media down here has never stopped beating up on Ms. Harris for enforcing the election laws against the Democrats. Not a day goes by that there are not unbelievably vicious hit pieces and columns in the Tribune or the Times trying to tear her to shreds. The reason is because outside of Tom Gallagher she is the only conservative running for office and man that scares hell out of all of the liberals. By the way Gallagher is hated too. Like the rest of the country, so goes Florida. Down the liberal sewer.


25 posted on 08/27/2006 9:05:40 AM PDT by 4Runner
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To: Aussie Dasher

Yeah, Christian government works so well. Massachusetts had it for centuries, had an Established Church until 1833, even had blue laws up until recently, and look what an ornament to virtue it is today. For that matter, look at what an ornament it was fifty years ago.


26 posted on 08/27/2006 9:14:03 AM PDT by Grut
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To: 4Runner

FR posters have an unworkably narrow definition of Christianity.

I always thought that Christianity refers to those who follow Christ - has that definition been changed?

What Harris is saying (as if you did not know) is that atheists in positions of power see only themselves as the final moral authority.

What I heard Harris saying is that only Christians are fit to serve and to legislate correctly. The obvious conclusion is that she believes that those of other faiths are not. I believe that's called bigotry.

27 posted on 08/27/2006 9:15:13 AM PDT by retMD
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To: retMD

Again--the operative construct is that the distinction Ms. Harris draws is between those in elective office who are guided by and acknowledge a higher power than themselves--as did the Founders, and those who obviously believe that the self is the ultimate power.

Bigotry has nothing to do with it. So for example Jews, Orthodox Greeks, Russian Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Baptist, Episcopalian, all fit the definition of Christian. Or Judeo-Christian if you want to be exact. Atheists do not fit the description. So only an atheist should find Ms Harris' statement offensive or bigoted.


28 posted on 08/27/2006 9:42:34 AM PDT by 4Runner
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To: 4Runner

Sorry, I don't buy it. I can't see how Jews fit the definition of "Christian." And she didn't say "Judeo-Christian," she said "Christian."

If she was simply talking of those who are guided by a higher power, she could have used other words, such as "people of faith." (Of course that could includ Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc.)


29 posted on 08/27/2006 9:48:17 AM PDT by retMD
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To: retMD

You are aware that this country has been under siege from atheists and America-haters within its own ranks for quite some time. Why are you at this late stage of the game so concerned about the color of the tank the opposition and the reinforcements are riding in while your house is tumbling down around you?


30 posted on 08/27/2006 10:16:25 AM PDT by 4Runner
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To: Ottofire
So if we elect those that profess Christianity, they will legislate what exactly?

I think what they won't legislate is the point of her statement, and she is right about that.

31 posted on 08/27/2006 10:24:51 AM PDT by Mogollon
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To: retMD
I always thought that Christianity refers to those who follow Christ - has that definition been changed?

Didn't you get the memo?

What I heard Harris saying is that only Christians are fit to serve and to legislate correctly. The obvious conclusion is that she believes that those of other faiths are not. I believe that's called bigotry.

I agree with you and will go so far as to say that it must be clar now that God must not want Katherine Harris as a senator if He allowes he to say such stupid things.

32 posted on 08/27/2006 10:28:41 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: hershey
She's definitely right, but she just handed the Left a hammer to hit her in the head.

She's doing a fine job of nailing herself in the head. The left just has to sit back and watch. Maybe snicker a time or two.

33 posted on 08/27/2006 10:30:01 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: XR7
Thank God this woman has balls.

It would have been better if she had brains.

34 posted on 08/27/2006 10:31:17 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: 4Runner
So for example Jews, Orthodox Greeks, Russian Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Baptist, Episcopalian, all fit the definition of Christian. Or Judeo-Christian if you want to be exact. Atheists do not fit the description. So only an atheist should find Ms Harris' statement offensive or bigoted.

Do you think ANYONE would read that into her statement. That statement was dumber than anything to come out of a politician's mouth since the Dean Scream.

And I know there are many atheists who are good people who are more than qualified to lead. Moreso than many right wing fundies who think we should not follow the Constitution of the United States which explicitly prohibits selection of elected officials in Article IV.

If the Founding Fathers had wanted a Christian Nation, they would not have drafted Article IV or the 1st Amendment.

This was a stupid, stupid move by Harris. She has just ensured her marginalization to the extreme Right where she will stay forever.

35 posted on 08/27/2006 10:31:19 AM PDT by freedumb2003 (I LIKE you! When I am Ruler of Earth, yours will be a quick and painless death)
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To: Non-Sequitur
The left just has to sit back and watch. Maybe snicker a time or two.

Lets see if she read Napoleon: "Do not interfere if your enemy is making a mistake."

36 posted on 08/27/2006 10:32:18 AM PDT by freedumb2003 (I LIKE you! When I am Ruler of Earth, yours will be a quick and painless death)
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To: Aussie Dasher
Separation of church and state is "a lie we have been told," Harris said in the interview, published Thursday, saying separating religion and politics is "wrong because God is the one who chooses our rulers."

We have rulers now? Who knew? I thought that that was what the American Revolution was about - so that the Americans could have a representative republic.

37 posted on 08/27/2006 10:33:37 AM PDT by FixedandDilated
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To: 4Runner
Bigotry has nothing to do with it. So for example Jews, Orthodox Greeks, Russian Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Baptist, Episcopalian, all fit the definition of Christian. Or Judeo-Christian if you want to be exact. Atheists do not fit the description. So only an atheist should find Ms Harris' statement offensive or bigoted.

I doubt you will find many jews who believe they are Christians and most would find the statement offensive and Harris bigoted.

38 posted on 08/27/2006 10:54:38 AM PDT by Dave S
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To: Non-Sequitur; XR7
Thank God this woman has balls.

It would have been better if she had brains.

ROTFL!!

39 posted on 08/27/2006 10:57:37 AM PDT by Dave S
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To: Non-Sequitur; XR7
Thank God this woman has balls.

It would have been better if she had brains.

ROTFL!!

40 posted on 08/27/2006 10:57:55 AM PDT by Dave S
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To: Aussie Dasher

I think the woman has fallen off her rocker.


41 posted on 08/27/2006 10:58:37 AM PDT by sabe@q.com (Yes, I'm a SW freak!)
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To: freedumb2003

Why don't you just admit you're a card-carrying Democrat-Liberal? It takes far fewer words than your post attacking me in defense of your atheist-controlled secular government did. As a matter of fact, judging by the swarm of vindictive my post elicited, you are in grand company. When I start hearing "far right fundies" I know where I am. I doubt there is another conservative on this thread. You've all done a great purge job. Just like the one you all pulled at the CIA and at State. Oops, better get this one before he gets away....


42 posted on 08/27/2006 11:27:15 AM PDT by 4Runner
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To: Aussie Dasher

Harris' campaign released a statement Saturday saying she had been "speaking to a Christian audience, addressing a common misperception that people of faith should not be actively involved in government."

Translation- "I was only telling them what they wanted to hear, so they'd like me!"


43 posted on 08/27/2006 11:28:39 AM PDT by richmwill
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To: freedumb2003
And I know there are many atheists who are good people who are more than qualified to lead.

By definition, atheists reject the Founding documents:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,...

Basically, atheists are NOT endowed with inalienable Rights.

Period.

And neither are those that these athiests lead.

Period.

44 posted on 08/27/2006 11:55:36 AM PDT by an amused spectator (Hezbollah: Habitat for Humanity with an attitude)
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To: an amused spectator
Basically, atheists are NOT endowed with inalienable Rights.

Theer is nothing there that says you have to BELIEVE anything to be endowed with these unalienable rights. You have them no matter what (or are you going to say Hindus don't get them? Buddhists?

Or are you going to kick all atheists and Hindus out of the USA as "unfit?"

And neither are those that these athiests lead. Period.

And screw the US Constitution! Who needs it?

45 posted on 08/27/2006 12:00:37 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (I LIKE you! When I am Ruler of Earth, yours will be a quick and painless death)
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To: Aussie Dasher
So, the Founders, a group of individuals fighting to throw off the idea of a man who ruled by divine wish, wanted to create a nation ruled by divine wish?

Here's James Madison, Father of the Constitution, on the subject of religion and government:


46 posted on 08/27/2006 12:02:00 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: 4Runner
Why don't you just admit you're a card-carrying Democrat-Liberal?

Why don't you admit you are a card-carrying extreme right0wing fundamentalists bigot who wants to establish an American Taliban?

It takes far fewer words than your post attacking me in defense of your atheist-controlled secular government did.

All I had to do was read the Constitution. You should try it.

47 posted on 08/27/2006 12:02:47 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (I LIKE you! When I am Ruler of Earth, yours will be a quick and painless death)
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To: an amused spectator
"Basically, atheists are NOT endowed with inalienable Rights."

A more compelling reason to keep religious nutjobs from political office could not be found.

48 posted on 08/27/2006 12:03:36 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: 4Runner
It takes far fewer words than your post attacking me in defense of your atheist-controlled secular government did.

See my post #44.

People like this have NO understanding of the Founding documents, and the fact that the Founding documents were the Founders' response to the "Divine Right of Kings" arguments advanced by Europe's nobility and enforced by the armies and navies of the European kings.

Idiots who follow "atheism" reject their Creator-given Natural Rights, at their ignorant peril...

49 posted on 08/27/2006 12:03:39 PM PDT by an amused spectator (Hezbollah: Habitat for Humanity with an attitude)
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To: an amused spectator
"Idiots who follow "atheism" reject their Creator-given Natural Rights, at their ignorant peril..."

How ling have you had this God complex?

50 posted on 08/27/2006 12:04:43 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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