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Don't Marry a Career Woman: The Debate Heats Up
Men's News Daily ^ | September 11, 2006 | Carey Roberts

Posted on 09/11/2006 10:39:33 AM PDT by FreeManDC

Wondering about that muffled howl you’ve been hearing the last couple weeks? It’s the sound and fury of feminists reacting to Michael Noer’s latest exegesis, Don’t Marry a Career Woman.

Noer’s column, which ran at Forbes.com, surveyed marriages in which the wives doggedly pursue a high-powered career, all the while neglecting family and home. The research shows these women are more likely to be unhappy if she earns more than the guy, or if she quits her job and stays home. Either way, she’s going to be a grump.

Her husband is more prone to be discontented if she is the primary breadwinner. The house is going to be dirtier. In the end, she is more apt to cheat on him and the marriage will fall apart. [www.forbes.com/2006/08/23/Marriage-Careers-Divorce_cx_mn_land.html]

Of course, these findings don’t apply to every ambitious woman who has risen to the top of her field – but the connection is true in many cases.

In practically every woman’s magazine, you’ll find advice columns to help the reader find Mr. Right and then entice her football-addled boyfriend to commit for the long-haul.

But when a male columnist dispenses relationship advice for men, that appears to be strictly verboten — at least according to the Shrieking Sisters of Silliness who cut loose on Mr. Noer.

On Good Morning America, one Rutgers U. prof claimed to be absolutely shocked: “I’m surprised that the man thinks it. I’m astonished that he wrote it. And I’m astonished that anyone published it, particularly Forbes.” (No word whether MIT professor Nancy Hopkins swooned at the news.)

Forbes hastily arranged for reporter Elizabeth Corcoran to pen a response sporting the acid title, “Don’t Marry a Lazy Man.” Describing Noer’s factual article as “frightening,” she dispensed this condescending advice about men: “If he can pick up new ideas faster than your puppy, you’ve got a winner.”

Needless to say, Ms. Corcoran’s screed only reinforced the worst stereotypes of the “I-know-what-I-want-and-I-know-how-to-get-it” career woman portrayed in Noer’s column.

Thereupon the readers jumped into the fray, all recounting their grudges about members of the opposite sex. A pretty picture it was not, but the debate is long-overdue: http://forums.forbes.com/forbes/board?board.id=respond_marry_career_woman and http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1688730/posts .

Part of the ladies’ discomfiture with Mr. Noer’s article springs from the fact that for the last 30 years, discussions about women in the workforce have been guided by the unspoken rule, “Men’s Opinions Don’t Count.”

But then women’s one-sided conversations lapsed into over-wrought declamations about men who didn’t pitch in around the house, forgetting that that men often put in longer hours on the job, commute longer distances, and do physical labor that leaves them exhausted.

Doesn’t mowing the grass, killing creepy-crawlers that traipse through the kitchen, clearing leaves out of the gutter, and coaching Little League count for anything?

And let’s not forget the old axiom that rights and responsibilities go hand-in-hand. If women are demanding more rights, then what additional duties – like compulsory registration for the draft — are they going to shoulder?

Ironically, the same day that Michael Noer published his op-ed, columnist Nancy Levant came out with a fem-ripper called The Cultural Devastation of Women. [www.newswithviews.com/Levant/nancy55.htm]

Levant deplored the fact that thanks to the libbers, American women “now hire maid services, landscapers, pool cleaners, painters, interior decorators. . . .while losing every intuitive aspect of our female natures.” In the process, women “use men like ATMs” and “bankrupt multiple men with mandatory child support payments.”

One can only imagine the hullabaloo if Mrs. Levant had uttered such heresy at Forbes.

So what’s a career woman to do? For a moment, let’s can the feminist ideology and take stock of that rare commodity, common sense.

Have you ever seen a woman (or man, for that matter) exclaim at death’s door, “I only wish that I could have spent more time in the office”? Neither have I.

It’s no secret that the most rewarding parts of a person’s life revolve around relationships with spouses, children, and other family. So why are career women driven to dismember those connections that give the most meaning to their lives?

It’s true that women find satisfaction and fulfillment from paid work. And some have no choice but to get a full-time job.

But the reality is, wives’ happiness is not tied to living out of a suitcase or having an equal paycheck with their husbands. Indeed, the opposite is true. When husbands are the primary wage earners, wives have more freedom to pursue their own interests.

So Mr. Noer, lick off those wounds, straighten up that tie, and sharpen your pencil. Get ready for Round Two.


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: bitchbitchbitchbitch; career; careerdebate; careerwomen; debate; divorce; earnings; forbes; freedom; genderwars; hitch; hitched; love; loveandmarriage; marriage; matrimony; men; menarefrommars; nuptial; nuptials; separation; sexes; vampira; women; womenarefromvenus; womenstrikeaturanus; work
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To: farlander

>>You're entitled to your opinion. <<

My opinion was based on a couple of statements and was not cast in stone. It was reasonable based on the input on which it was based.

I have new input and have adjusted my opinion accordingly. ;)


51 posted on 09/11/2006 10:58:26 AM PDT by RobRoy (Islam is more dangerous to the world now that Naziism was in 1937.)
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To: bella1
Feel like getting frisky tonight dear?

No


You're still not getting the 500 dollars... :D
52 posted on 09/11/2006 10:58:38 AM PDT by JamesP81 ("Never let your schooling interfere with your education" --Mark Twain)
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To: dinoparty
As opposed to what...a needy, clingy wife who has no interests other than you?

No, as opposed to a wife who puts the welfare of her family before an illusory desire for 'fulfillment' that can only be achieved working 40-60 hours per week outside of the home.
53 posted on 09/11/2006 10:59:13 AM PDT by Antoninus (I don't vote for liberals, regardless of party.)
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To: RobRoy
Over eight years, we're both 52, and the honeymoon aint over. In fact, our relationship gets only stronger.

Mine is still going strong too, I'm 61 and my wife is 53. We've been married since we were babies.

54 posted on 09/11/2006 10:59:23 AM PDT by Graybeard58 (Remember and pray for SSgt. Matt Maupin - MIA/POW- Iraq since 04/09/04)
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To: bella1

That's a different type of 'career' woman, but she is a 'working' girl.


55 posted on 09/11/2006 10:59:39 AM PDT by doc30 (Democrats are to morals what and Etch-A-Sketch is to Art.)
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To: Gordongekko909

I wouldn't be able to do that with a straight face. :)


56 posted on 09/11/2006 10:59:59 AM PDT by Fawn (http://www.jokaroo.com/funnyvideos/toilet_obsession.html)
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To: FreeManDC

Mrs. randog became a stay-at-home wife a year ago. Every working woman that finds out about our arrangement says one thing to her--"you're so lucky--I wish I could do that".


57 posted on 09/11/2006 10:59:59 AM PDT by randog (What the...?!)
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To: doc30

Uh-huh. And, a man that has *some* self confidence doesn't feel threatened/challenged. So what if they want to 'challenge' you ? That's a good thing. Keeps you focused and your eyes on the ball. I've found that having self confidence to date a very sucessfull, very intelligent woman is *far* more rewarding than dating a english major dropout.


58 posted on 09/11/2006 11:00:18 AM PDT by farlander (Strategery - sure beats liberalism!)
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To: Graybeard58

heh, heh. Babies? With a twelve year difference? ;) I know what you mean though. I so wish I had met her when I was a tyke!


59 posted on 09/11/2006 11:00:32 AM PDT by RobRoy (Islam is more dangerous to the world now that Naziism was in 1937.)
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To: bella1

HAHA..Great answer!!


60 posted on 09/11/2006 11:00:39 AM PDT by Judy Jetsun (Activan-Apply Directly to the Forehead x12)
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To: FreeManDC

I'd like to find a man that's willing to take on the responsibilty of being the sole breadwinner. Not many guys my age (early 30s) seem to be up to the challenge or willing to take it on.


61 posted on 09/11/2006 11:00:48 AM PDT by lawgirl (She comes on like thunder and she's more right than rain)
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To: mikeus_maximus
If I were in the search mode, I may look offshore for a wife.

Many do. From what I understand, China, Latin America, and much of Southeast Asia and Japan are considered good cultures to look into.
62 posted on 09/11/2006 11:00:52 AM PDT by JamesP81 ("Never let your schooling interfere with your education" --Mark Twain)
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To: Vision

I just celebrated my 17th year anniversary with my career woman wife. I made more, then she made more.

However, there is only one real solution to having a career woman as a wife. Get a housekeeper who also can take care of the kids. This way you have the best of both worlds.


63 posted on 09/11/2006 11:01:10 AM PDT by EQAndyBuzz (Mediacrat - A leftwing editorialist who pretends to be an objective journalist.)
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To: 308MBR
Even if you are the primary bread winner during her education (as I was), that tends to be forgotten when the tables turn after her career becomes established.

It works the same way when the tables are reversed and the wife is staying home. :-)

64 posted on 09/11/2006 11:01:37 AM PDT by Tired of Taxes (That's taxes, not Texas. I have no beef with TX. NJ has the highest property taxes in the nation.)
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To: Fawn
Hmm... I might be putting up a profile sooner or later...

Meh, maybe later. I still have two girls that I know personally whom I'm working on right now.

65 posted on 09/11/2006 11:02:45 AM PDT by Gordongekko909 (Mark 5:9)
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To: Gordongekko909

Ha! I guess that makes us pushovers, but there's lots of truth in all that.


66 posted on 09/11/2006 11:02:45 AM PDT by JamesP81 ("Never let your schooling interfere with your education" --Mark Twain)
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To: Paradox
Exactly.

Career oriented woman probably have the same negatives that a career oriented man has, but a cranky biatch is forever, working or not.

Just as surely, anyone who is trying to be career oriented and failing miserable is NOT someone you want to marry, date, have children with or in any way, shape or form, screw around with. Many gals who violate this rule can escape and move on. Most guys who violate this rule and don't see the error quickly, end up giving houses to women they don't like. Until that inequality is worked out look for guys to point out that fact and ignore the exceptions.
67 posted on 09/11/2006 11:02:53 AM PDT by mad puppy ( The Southern border is THE issue)
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To: Antoninus

And how's that defined (the welfare of the family) ? Why is that only *her* responsibility to put before something else ? It's a *man*'s responsibility to do the same.

Here's a question for you - if your wife made more money than you would you stay at home and be a house husband ? If your answer is *no*, ask yourself why that is, and why should you place that same burden on a woman.


68 posted on 09/11/2006 11:03:03 AM PDT by farlander (Strategery - sure beats liberalism!)
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To: Gordongekko909

And I wish you luck on this one - it won't work like you think.


69 posted on 09/11/2006 11:03:18 AM PDT by lesko
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To: Tennessee_Bob

That's it, we have a winner!


70 posted on 09/11/2006 11:03:26 AM PDT by Constantine XIII
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To: Jim Noble
I imagine they don't like Tom Leykis, either.

Yeah, I'm surprised Leykis' name didn't come up. He's been beating this drum for years.

71 posted on 09/11/2006 11:03:47 AM PDT by randog (What the...?!)
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To: martin_fierro

"Get back to the kitchen and cook me dinner, woman."

Then fetch me a cold beer in a frosted mug. And be quick about it. I've had a hard day at the office.


72 posted on 09/11/2006 11:04:00 AM PDT by roaddog727 (Bullsh## doesn't get bridges built.)
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To: mikeus_maximus
If I were in the search mode, I may look offshore for a wife.

I married a Japanese woman after being miserably married to an American woman. Very different psychology - she, and Japanese women in general, actually want to be feminine. They have not lost the concept of men and women being different, but equal. American women, seem to want to emulate men, not compliment them. She understands I bust my butt at work and do all the heavy, outside labor around the house. My ex-American wife was always of the 'so what, but what did you do for ME today?'

73 posted on 09/11/2006 11:04:32 AM PDT by doc30 (Democrats are to morals what and Etch-A-Sketch is to Art.)
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To: doc30

I think the bottom line is that men want a partner, not a competitor.



And if that partner is a high-powered intelligent woman, she can make a damn fine business partner.


74 posted on 09/11/2006 11:04:36 AM PDT by Atlas Sneezed (Your FRiendly FReeper Patent Attorney)
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To: RobRoy
heh, heh. Babies? With a twelve year difference? ;)

61 minus 53 is 12?

(You may be right)

75 posted on 09/11/2006 11:04:38 AM PDT by Graybeard58 (Remember and pray for SSgt. Matt Maupin - MIA/POW- Iraq since 04/09/04)
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To: FreeManDC

I'm laying in wait for the usual lecherous Henry Beecher to whine in the thread about the objects of his desire (other men's wives) being "barefoot and pregnant."

;-)


76 posted on 09/11/2006 11:05:29 AM PDT by familyop
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To: Paradox
Discussed on FR earlier, and I think the concensus was "Don't marry a b*tch!"

Is this man a closet FReeper?


77 posted on 09/11/2006 11:06:19 AM PDT by KarlInOhio (Dems - Your conduct is an invitation to the enemy, yet few of you have heart enough to join them.)
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To: martin_fierro

Ha! Reminds me of what my husband says when I'm chattering while he's trying to watch a game: "Woman, why don't you make yourself useful. Go fix me a sandwich or something."

Hey, just keep bringing those paychecks home. I can make sandwiches.


78 posted on 09/11/2006 11:06:21 AM PDT by Tired of Taxes (That's taxes, not Texas. I have no beef with TX. NJ has the highest property taxes in the nation.)
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To: Fawn

Practice in a mirror or something. Watch romance anime for tips.


79 posted on 09/11/2006 11:06:42 AM PDT by Gordongekko909 (Mark 5:9)
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To: All

I think one answer would be: In 1956, 1966 1976
How much of an income did a man have to make to support a family? (let's look at some TV families for instance)

Wife 3 kids and a dog? How much money did
Father's know Best make to support his family?

What about Ward Cleaver the Beav's dad? how much money for his family?

What about Mr Brady? he had an extended family and a maid on top of it? how much money did he bring in??

Fast forward to 2006 could most men afford to take care of a family like the ones of old? I would say proably Not...


80 posted on 09/11/2006 11:07:04 AM PDT by Judy Jetsun (Activan-Apply Directly to the Forehead x12)
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To: Gordongekko909

THat would be the day.


81 posted on 09/11/2006 11:07:25 AM PDT by Fawn (http://www.jokaroo.com/funnyvideos/toilet_obsession.html)
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To: farlander
So what if they want to 'challenge' you ? That's a good thing.

No, it isn't. I don't go on dates to engage in some form of emotional and/or intellectual combat with someone. I get enough of that at work.
82 posted on 09/11/2006 11:07:44 AM PDT by JamesP81 ("Never let your schooling interfere with your education" --Mark Twain)
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To: Shimmer128
My first wife's mother was selfish, self centered and unfaithful. My first wife was the same. My second wife was kind, helpful, respectful and loving. Her mother was nuts. My second wife developed bipolarism that I believe was inherited from her Mother and her life ended as does most truly bipolar individuals. If I ever get married again (at this time even date again) I will take the parents in consideration thoroughly.
83 posted on 09/11/2006 11:07:58 AM PDT by vetvetdoug
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To: Tired of Taxes; bella1; xsmommy

Was just trying to get a rise outta xs.

She hasn't responded yet, so she must be dead or something.


84 posted on 09/11/2006 11:08:49 AM PDT by martin_fierro (< |:)~)
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To: Antoninus
Actually, the rebuttal has a point-- this article is great for weeding out the insecure losers. Publish it far and wide and get the man-children off the streets!

Those that are man enough to take on a woman with smarts, wit, and spirit will win out. The losers can have the gold-digging clingers. Ain't karma a wonderful thing! :-)
85 posted on 09/11/2006 11:08:58 AM PDT by VictoryGal (Never give up, never surrender!)
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To: Cicero

And how about the women with IQs of 140 who have master's degrees and want to do something more intellectually stimulating than housekeeping? Some men actually like being married to women who can carry on an intelligent conversation, commiserate with their office battles and work stress, and earn money so they can drive that hot car and play golf every weekend.


86 posted on 09/11/2006 11:08:59 AM PDT by Dems_R_Losers (Bill Clinton is Chief Loser)
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To: lawgirl
I'd like to find a man that's willing to take on the responsibilty of being the sole breadwinner. Not many guys my age (early 30s) seem to be up to the challenge or willing to take it on.

I'm in my mid-20s and I'm perfectly willing to just that. Problem is, I haven't been out of school long enough to be making enough money just yet. The ladies will probably have to wait. My present salary is *very* meager, and that's just for me.
87 posted on 09/11/2006 11:09:05 AM PDT by JamesP81 ("Never let your schooling interfere with your education" --Mark Twain)
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To: KarlInOhio

Then he ought've followed his own advice, lol.


88 posted on 09/11/2006 11:09:22 AM PDT by Constantine XIII
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To: lesko

That's what I keep hearing. I figure I'll end up married sooner or later.


89 posted on 09/11/2006 11:09:25 AM PDT by Gordongekko909 (Mark 5:9)
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To: Graybeard58

I'm 61 and my wife is 53.



That is a good age difference for many couples.


90 posted on 09/11/2006 11:09:32 AM PDT by Atlas Sneezed (Your FRiendly FReeper Patent Attorney)
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To: Graybeard58
It is not polite to make fun of people with dementia. :(

;)

91 posted on 09/11/2006 11:10:28 AM PDT by RobRoy (Islam is more dangerous to the world now that Naziism was in 1937.)
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To: FreeManDC
But when a male columnist dispenses relationship advice for men, that appears to be strictly verboten — at least according to the Shrieking Sisters of Silliness who cut loose on Mr. Noer.

There's truth here. Women have a remarkable support network that validates their opinions and even their whims. Women have friends, tv programs, daytime talk shows, womens magazines, etc that validate their mandate. Men don't have nearly as strong a support network.

92 posted on 09/11/2006 11:10:44 AM PDT by HitmanLV ("If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking until you do succeed." - Jerry 'Curly' Howard)
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To: mad puppy
Until that inequality is worked out look for guys to point out that fact and ignore the exceptions.

And for good reason.
93 posted on 09/11/2006 11:11:18 AM PDT by JamesP81 ("Never let your schooling interfere with your education" --Mark Twain)
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To: martin_fierro

Head to the bedroom and get ready for me, and I won't put up with any of this "I'm Tired!" crap either ;)


94 posted on 09/11/2006 11:11:30 AM PDT by najida (The internet is for kids grown up-- Where else could you have 10,000 imaginary friends?)
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To: FreeManDC
It’s no secret that the most rewarding parts of a person’s life revolve around relationships with spouses, children, and other family. So why are career women driven to dismember those connections that give the most meaning to their lives?

In my opinion I think the true devastation is what happens to the children, spouses and extended families of career women. It is true, wives/Mothers that have poorer large families do many times have to work right alongside their husbands, but these woman would give anything to stay at home and be with their children and tend to the house etc.

Where I think things get really crazy is for women and families who are already living in the 1% or even upper middle class economic bracket. The children are shuttled off to the nanny and day care and even thrown back at the husband (who is also working at a high level job) to care for them.

I think these women are the most selfish women I know and they are always libs, usually rabid.

I used to say and sometimes still do that the husband chose that person so they made their bed--live in it. Yet, the children did not choose that Mother, sadly and also the women many times misrepresent themselves when they are dating and when it comes time to be a wife and Mother they revert to their selfish feminist brain and run full speed ahead into the work environment. It is harder dealing with the unpredictability and complexity at home.

Thus I see these women as not just poor choices for mates and Mothers, but also think they are scaredy cat babies themselves to use a childhood phrase :-). JMO

95 posted on 09/11/2006 11:11:31 AM PDT by GOP Poet
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To: Gordongekko909; Altamira

LOL!


96 posted on 09/11/2006 11:11:44 AM PDT by Atlas Sneezed (Your FRiendly FReeper Patent Attorney)
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To: RobRoy
It is not polite to make fun of people with dementia. :(

I'm blessed with a pornographic memory myself.

97 posted on 09/11/2006 11:11:50 AM PDT by Graybeard58 (Remember and pray for SSgt. Matt Maupin - MIA/POW- Iraq since 04/09/04)
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To: Graybeard58

I didn't post the story! As for keeping a clean house, I don't, and I freely admit it. But then, I'm a career woman by necessity -- I'm single and don't want to be a ward of the state.


98 posted on 09/11/2006 11:12:06 AM PDT by kellynch ("Our only freedom is the freedom to discipline ourselves." -- Bernard Baruch)
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To: FreeManDC

If SHE is unhappy, I will be unhappy.

Not quite sure how that works, but it has something to do with my a55 being chewed unmercifully when she is not happy.


99 posted on 09/11/2006 11:12:22 AM PDT by Paloma_55 (I may be a hateful bigot, but I still love you)
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To: Fawn
::shrugs:: 'kay. Then you will never know this technique's effectiveness. Its effectiveness is, umm...

...effective.

100 posted on 09/11/2006 11:12:30 AM PDT by Gordongekko909 (Mark 5:9)
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