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Benedict the Bombthrower:Why the pope's speech really was outrageous (Liberal view alert)
American Prospect ^ | 09/25/2006 | Adele Stan

Posted on 09/25/2006 9:45:57 AM PDT by SirLinksalot

Benedict the Bombthrower

Why the pope's speech in Germany really was outrageous.

By Adele M. Stan

When I heard of Pope Benedict XVI's unfortunate comments about Islam, uttered via the voice of an ancient Byzantine emperor, my initial supposition was that the pontiff had simply been a bit ham-fisted, making an ill-advised choice of source material to illustrate a point about the nature of God. Then I actually read the speech that has set the Islamic world aflame.

At best, the address delivered by the pontiff to what the Vatican calls “representatives of science” at Germany's University of Regensburg is an act of mischief rooted in chauvinism. I cannot see how any Catholic of good will -- one who values peace over war, or favors compassion over condemnation -- can accept the pope's actions in delivering such remarks as in any way divinely inspired, especially if one applies to Benedict the very standard he sought to illustrate with his once-removed insult of Islam as evil, inhuman, and unoriginal.

The point His Holiness was trying to make -- and I can't imagine how this was overlooked by Muslims and the media -- is that God abhors violence, even violence done in His name, because it is an unreasonable way to behave, and God represents the essence of reason. But to throw a rhetorical bomb such as that the pope tossed into the teeming cities of the Muslim world is to commit an act tantamount to violence. It appears to be a taunt designed to provoke a response, and provoke one it did. In the ensuing uproar, the pope has issued a string of explanations for his comments, as well as what can only be viewed as a non-apology apology (I'm sorry you're so upset).

In examining the pope's speech to the scientists, I initially set aside the inflammatory anecdote recounted early in the speech, about an exchange between Manuel II, the Christian emperor of Byzantium and "an educated Persian," in which the emperor is quoted as saying, "Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." Continuing with the story, the pope said, "The emperor, after having expressed himself so forcefully, goes on to explain in detail the reasons why spreading the faith through violence is something unreasonable. Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul. 'God,' he says, 'is not pleased by blood -- and not acting reasonably is contrary to God's nature...'"

News reports indicated that the anecdote was a mere aside, a virtual throwaway shtick, to the main thrust of the address, which was an examination of the role of reason in faith, and vice versa. But encoded throughout the speech in his exultation of Greek philosophy as the underpinning of Christian thought is a comparison with the unknowable and transcendent God of Islam (and, by implication, the scary and unknowable God of Judaism, as well) that is designed to be less than flattering to those who embrace that concept of the Almighty.

Greek philosophy, Benedict told the scientists, had already matured as a body of thought even as the Hebrew bible “developed.” Christianity, he explained, represented a "rapprochement between Biblical faith and Greek philosophical inquiry." By Benedict's telling, however, the contest between faith and philosophy appears to have resulted less in rapprochement than the triumph of the Greek philosophers over the faith of a desert people. In fact, Jesus the Jew seems barely present, if at all, in the pontiff's version of the Christian faith. But Plato is everywhere.

Developing in our own time has been the idea of a current clash of civilizations between the West and the Islamic world. Conservatives Samuel Huntington and Robert W. Merry define this clash as it exists today as the result of the fundamental irreconcilability of such Greek concepts as individualism and the distinction between the secular and sacred realms (Give unto Caesar, etc...) on the one hand with the Islamic ideal of the unity of all things in the divine, and the primacy of community before the individual, on the other.

Add to these profound differences a recent history of Western colonial domination, the resulting economic domination by the West, as well as America's present assertion -- via bombs and occupation -- of Western ideals as universal and superior to all others, and the recipe for worldwide Muslim rage is complete. Surely Pope Benedict, a learned theologian himself, is aware of these conditions. With that awareness, the pope must have taken into account that, in the Islamic worldview, there is no separate, "secular" realm; it's a worldview that offers no distinction between the bombs of Bush and Blair, and the pope's assertion of the God of the Greek philosophers as superior to the mysterious but "most merciful" God of the desert peoples. The bombs and moral condemnation all serve a common end: the shaming of Islamic civilization, with the assertion, by the sword, of Western culture as superior.

The irony of the pope's anecdote, of course, is its focus on the spread of Islam through violence, and the omission of the spread of Christianity by the same means. (Note the campaigns of King Charlemagne, and the Crusades against Islam -- not to mention the Inquisition.)

As if that wasn't enough, Huntington, in his iconoclastic 1995 book, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order, points out:

During the 15 years between 1980 and 1995..., the United States engaged in 17 military operations in the Middle East, all of them directed against Muslims. No comparable pattern of U.S. military operations occurred against the people of any other civilization. Like Eris, the Greek goddess of strife who had a snit when not invited to an important wedding, Pope Benedict XVI seems a bit miffed to have been left out of the party being thrown by the 21st century crusaders, so he has tossed an apple of discord -- one ingeniously designed to give the appearance of merely proving his point. Violence in the name of the Most High is the predictable result of the pope's sophistic ordinance. Concluding his speech in Germany, the pope quoted Manuel II:

"Not to act reasonably, not to act with logos, is contrary to the nature of God," said Manuel II, according to his Christian understanding of God, in response to his Persian interlocutor. "It is to this great logos, to this breadth of reason, that we invite our partners in the dialogue of cultures." A more disingenuous call for dialogue can scarcely be imagined.

----------------------------------------------

Adele M. Stan is the author of the weblog, AddieStan.com, and the book, Debating Sexual Correctness.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: benedict; benedictxvi; bombthrower; goldenburkha; pope
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1 posted on 09/25/2006 9:45:59 AM PDT by SirLinksalot
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To: SirLinksalot

This is what happens when the author begins a logical process in media res. Not pretty, but it's good to know they still think they can dictate terms.


2 posted on 09/25/2006 9:47:52 AM PDT by BelegStrongbow (www.stjosephssanford.org: Ecce Pactum, id cape aut id relinque)
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To: SirLinksalot
Adele M. Stan is the author of the weblog, AddieStan.com, and the book, Debating Sexual Correctness.

Ten to one says Adele M. Stan is a flaming poofter (or a screeching lezbo).

3 posted on 09/25/2006 9:48:16 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: SirLinksalot
Fact: Benedict mentioned that Islam has violent followers.

Fact: Islamists rioted burning churches and killed a nun

Conclusion: Islam sucks

4 posted on 09/25/2006 9:48:28 AM PDT by cardinal4 (Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi..)
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To: SirLinksalot
Adele M. Stan is the author of the weblog, AddieStan.com, and the book, Debating Sexual Correctness.

With credentials like this....

5 posted on 09/25/2006 9:48:56 AM PDT by frogjerk (REUTERS: We give smoke and mirrors a bad name)
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To: SirLinksalot

Most of us thought that the Islamcist's reaction was really outrageous, so it makes perfect sense that the Libs would now claim that it's the Pope's comment that was outrageous.


6 posted on 09/25/2006 9:49:34 AM PDT by Brilliant
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To: SirLinksalot
But to throw a rhetorical bomb such as that the pope tossed into the teeming cities of the Muslim world is to commit an act tantamount to violence.

Liberal, pants-wetting traitors would rather brave men of truth remain silent than confront the evil in our world. May their chains rest lightly...

7 posted on 09/25/2006 9:50:36 AM PDT by pgyanke (We can't share the blessings of peace with those for whom violence is holy imperative. -andy58-in-nh)
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To: SirLinksalot

"But to throw a rhetorical bomb such as that the pope tossed into the teeming cities of the Muslim world is to commit an act tantamount to violence."

A rhetorical bomb? This author is out of his or her mind.


8 posted on 09/25/2006 9:52:03 AM PDT by Disturbin
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To: SirLinksalot

I just smile when I see stuff like this. The authors are so clueless.

On the other hand, BXVI knows exactly what he's doing.


9 posted on 09/25/2006 9:52:17 AM PDT by BlessedBeGod (Benedict XVI = Terminator IV)
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To: SirLinksalot

Liberals think we should walk on egg-shells and enable islamofascists to continue with their infantile temper tantrums.


10 posted on 09/25/2006 9:53:17 AM PDT by Mogollon
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To: SirLinksalot
What a completely stupid article! Words fail me!

(Not criticizing you at all. It's always good to be reminded how silly these people can be.)

11 posted on 09/25/2006 9:53:18 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Reality is not optional.)
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To: SirLinksalot
But to throw a rhetorical bomb such as that the pope tossed into the teeming cities of the Muslim world is to commit an act tantamount to violence.

This statement is tantamount to moronic stupidity. Either you can have dialog, or you cannot. Islamic Fundamentalism cannot. It must be vanquished.

12 posted on 09/25/2006 9:56:25 AM PDT by Paradox (American Conservatives: Keeping the world safe for Liberalism.)
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To: ArrogantBustard
I like the part where after listing her liberal and feminist qualifications (including writing for the "Village Voice") she concludes that:

She is in the midst of planning a second career as a lounge-singing ukulele-player.

13 posted on 09/25/2006 9:58:48 AM PDT by JimSEA
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To: ArrogantBustard

Adele M. Stan is a journalist and editor whose work has appeared in The New Republic, the Village Voice, The Nation, The Advocate, Salon.com, the Washington Blade and Mother Jones magazine, as well as on the op-ed pages of the New York Times, the Los Angeles Times, the San Francisco Chronicle and the New York Daily News. She began her media career at Ms. magazine, where she served both on staff and as a contributing editor.


14 posted on 09/25/2006 9:59:25 AM PDT by UB355 (Slower traffic keep right)
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To: SirLinksalot

The point of the piece is exactly of a mind with the Islamofascist view: that free speech that offends is violence, so it must be banned, or, alternatively, forcibly suppressed. If the libs keep rationalizing these attempts at suppression of free expression around the world, one day it'll be their expression that's being suppressed. How they can't fathom this reality, I can't understand.


15 posted on 09/25/2006 10:00:22 AM PDT by Emile (New Orleans: Will the levees hold next time? Don't bet your life on it.)
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To: SirLinksalot
"Add to these profound differences a recent history of Western colonial domination, the resulting economic domination by the West, as well as America's present assertion -- via bombs and occupation -- of Western ideals as universal and superior to all others, and the recipe for worldwide Muslim rage is complete."

Quick, somebody call the Whaamulance!

"Note the campaigns of King Charlemagne"
Typical lib- ever hear of the concept of 'self defense'?

What a wanker, drop him over Mecca sans parachute.
16 posted on 09/25/2006 10:00:39 AM PDT by RedStateRocker (Nuke Mecca, Deport all illegals, abolish the IRS, ATF and DEA)
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To: SirLinksalot

"Don't knock the leader of my religion"....its not nice...


17 posted on 09/25/2006 10:01:34 AM PDT by HarleyLady27 (My ? to libs: "Do they ever shut up on your planet?" "Grow your own DOPE: Plant a LIB!")
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To: UB355
The Advocate, ... the Washington Blade ...

Yep. She writes for Fag-mags and communist propaganda sheets, and got started at a radical feminist magazine. That's just got to increase the odds she's a man-hating feminazi lesbian.

18 posted on 09/25/2006 10:02:58 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: SirLinksalot
This is such an uninformed piece of nonsense it hardly deserves being refuted. But for one thing, Christianity itself never advocated spreading the word by the sword. Often, Christian princes took the faith and brought their people along, sometimes coercively, but the faith was never a military campaign. And the Crusades were not some unjustified raid against Islam, but in fact Christianity had flourished in the Levant for six-hundred years before Mohammed was even thought of. The crusaders only attempted to re-take the holy lands after the Muslims destroyed the shrines and barred pilgrims from visiting them, after having taken the sites by force over the prior centuries.

This liberal fascination with moral equivalence is simply laughable. We are truly in a "clash of civilizations". But it is not new. It has just been in remission, and is now regaining strength. We had better wake up to the fact, or we will soon face another Manzikert, but in our own lands.

19 posted on 09/25/2006 10:03:06 AM PDT by foghornleghorn
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To: SirLinksalot
WESTERN CULTURE IS SUPERIOR
20 posted on 09/25/2006 10:03:53 AM PDT by oldleft
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To: SirLinksalot; ariamne; AmericanArchConservative; Fred Nerks; USF; jan in Colorado; TexasCowboy; ...
Good post, Sir Linksalot, more power to you for not only finding this dreck, but having the fortitude to read it (I'm sur you had several laugh-out-loud breaks).

PRoP Apologist PING!

It's writers like this that make my tagline valid.

21 posted on 09/25/2006 10:04:17 AM PDT by Former Dodger ( "Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." --Einstein)
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To: ArrogantBustard

I Googled; "Adele M. Stan lesbian" and got an article by her on the hardship of finding Same-Sex Wedding Cake Toppers. She says; "we Gay people". So there's your answer.


22 posted on 09/25/2006 10:06:03 AM PDT by massgopguy (massgopguy)
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To: ArrogantBustard

I Googled; "Adele M. Stan lesbian" and got an article by her on the hardship of finding Same-Sex Wedding Cake Toppers. She says; "we Gay people". So there's your answer.


23 posted on 09/25/2006 10:06:48 AM PDT by massgopguy (massgopguy)
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To: SirLinksalot

People like Ms. Stan fail to see that the pope was making a reasonable point: That Islam seems to have difficulty in looking at God in a reasonable, logical fashion. Heaven knows, the Islamic reaction to the pope's words proved his point!

Of course, Ms. Stan is, most likely, a nihilist. Betcha.


24 posted on 09/25/2006 10:08:26 AM PDT by RexBeach (Will Rogers Never Met Bill Clinton.)
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To: massgopguy
the hardship of finding Same-Sex Wedding Cake Toppers.

ROFL!!!! No! Who'd ever have thought?

She says; "we Gay people".

The books are closed on that one ...

25 posted on 09/25/2006 10:08:50 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: SirLinksalot; Timesink; martin_fierro; reformed_democrat; Loyalist; =Intervention=; PianoMan; ...
The Terrorist Media! ping

Golden Burkha Award nominee for 2006 bump

26 posted on 09/25/2006 10:12:32 AM PDT by an amused spectator (Hezbollah: Habitat for Humanity with an attitude)
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To: JimSEA
I say we all show up for the opening night of her gig, whaddaya say? We'd just have to figure out who's bringing the tomatoes......

27 posted on 09/25/2006 10:12:54 AM PDT by Clifford The Big Red Dog (Woof!)
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To: Emile

They are delusional and immature. They fantasize about being the rule makers in a world of equals, without for a moment realizing the disparity. They don't believe in being subject to their own rules.


28 posted on 09/25/2006 10:13:11 AM PDT by kenth (There are three kinds of people in the world. Those who can count, and those who can't.)
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To: SirLinksalot
But to throw a rhetorical bomb such as that the pope tossed into the teeming cities of the Muslim world is to commit an act tantamount to violence.

Oh, I see -- so intellectual freedom, debate, and dialogue are not valued by liberals any longer.

At least, not when it's the Pope.

29 posted on 09/25/2006 10:14:50 AM PDT by The Old Hoosier (Right makes might.)
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To: SirLinksalot

This article is a prime example of muddled thought. You can get a headache trying to follow it logically.


30 posted on 09/25/2006 10:16:02 AM PDT by OK
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To: SirLinksalot
But to throw a rhetorical bomb such as that the pope tossed into the teeming cities of the Muslim world is to commit an act tantamount to violence.

In other words, if the Muslim world reacts with violence it's the Pope's fault for saying mean things that hurt their poor wittle feelings.

I guess the Left's commitment to free speech is less important than their commitment to hate Western Civilization.

31 posted on 09/25/2006 10:17:09 AM PDT by You Dirty Rats (I Love Free Republic!!!)
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To: SirLinksalot
The pope's quote from an earlier church father may have been 'unfortunate' as this author calls it, but it was spot on.

How did the Muzzies respond to the comments? By committing violence.

32 posted on 09/25/2006 10:20:10 AM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: SirLinksalot

If I understand this obscure rant correctly, she seems to be saying that the Pope was guilty of provoking the Muslims by telling him that God opposes violence in the name of religion.

I'm not sure how that can be construed as offensive, unless it violates the Muslim understanding that Allah does, in fact, call for religious violence, as does Muhammed his prophet.

The whole article is simply incoherent.


33 posted on 09/25/2006 10:24:07 AM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: SirLinksalot
Benedict the Bombthrower

"Brother Maynard, consult the Book of Armaments..."

34 posted on 09/25/2006 10:24:58 AM PDT by Charles Martel (Liberals are the crab grass in the lawn of life.)
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To: MEGoody

If we riot and kill based on her words, does that make her words violent? Did this chick not take logic?


35 posted on 09/25/2006 10:26:59 AM PDT by tigtog
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To: Clifford The Big Red Dog

Adele Stan as Tiny Tim? At least he was straight. But he used his ukulele as a cricket bat when the audience began firing tomatoes.


36 posted on 09/25/2006 10:43:56 AM PDT by elcid1970 (atio)
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To: SirLinksalot

Yet another humanist leftie nihilist devises convoluted moral equivalences with which to condemn Western religious culture and Christianity while slipping in some tasty victimhood for those poor, put-upon Muslims.

I guess if one rhetorically amplifies a speech to academics in a college into a "bomb throwing" episode, the throwing of actual bombs doesn't look so extreme. Or at least that's probably be the fractured logic wheezing its way through the overtaxed grey matter of this particular twit.


37 posted on 09/25/2006 11:04:06 AM PDT by NCSteve
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To: NCSteve

What this deluded author fails to understand is that NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO, YOU CANNOT ESCAPE THE BASIC TEACHINGS OF MOHAMMAD.

Saudi Arabia's most senior cleric also explained that war was never Islam's ancient founder, the prophet Mohammed's, first choice: "He gave three options: either accept Islam, or surrender and pay tax, and they will be allowed to remain in their land, observing their religion under the protection of Muslims."

So folks, according to the Grand Mufti, the third option of violence against non-Muslims was only a last resort, if they refused to convert or surrender peacefully to the armies of Islam.

Yep...Three choices folks, take your pick :

1) Convert,
2) Pay us tax and be subject to Sharia Law, or
3) Die.

You want Islam to be peaceful ? SIMPLE --- Islam will be peaceful as long as we are stronger. It will try and use our own systems to get Sharia law introduced in smaller areas first, and then larger ones. It will continue to work with the secular humanists and marxists to weaken our society. The battle is on. We just need people to realise it and understand it. Whether it remains a war of ideas, or devolves into a full scare physical war depends on how many people realise it. In this, it is where secularists and cowards ( like this lesbian author, who would not even survive if Islam took over ) who embolden Islam and end up staying silent and trying to shut everyone else up.

Reagan's principle still applies today : "PEACE THROUGH STRENGTH".


38 posted on 09/25/2006 11:09:38 AM PDT by SirLinksalot
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To: SirLinksalot

Funny, in that a passing reference to one of the last rulers of the Eastern Empire is now a reason to be killed.

That wasn't even what the speech was about.


39 posted on 09/25/2006 11:12:10 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: SirLinksalot

As always, the left blames the Pope for this! They use words like "set off", "triggered", "caused". In their perverted world-view, WORDS are infinitely worse than shooting a nun in the back, rioting and death threats.


40 posted on 09/25/2006 11:16:09 AM PDT by Leftism is Mentally Deranged (I don't trust the left and their friends the bus-bombers/throat slitters.)
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To: SirLinksalot
"the Islamic ideal of the unity of all things in the divine, and the primacy of community before the individual,"

This is where Islam and Marxism combine forces and explains why they engage in their unholy alliance.

41 posted on 09/25/2006 11:25:20 AM PDT by sageb1 (This is the Final Crusade. There are only 2 sides. Pick one.)
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To: SirLinksalot
But to throw a rhetorical bomb such as that the pope tossed into the teeming cities of the Muslim world is to commit an act tantamount to violence. This typifies the idiocy, and fundamental unseriousness, of the PC, multi-culturalist, "useful idiot" brand of liberal, for a number of reasons. 1. It is ridiculous on its face. Only people who have been insulated from even the threat of physical violence can believe that words are "tantamount" to violence. Children used to be taught, "sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can never hurt me." Now they are taught that "insensitive" language "violates," and "oppresses" protected classes (e.g., minorities, women). This, of course, is because the philosophy of today's Western Left, really a sort of "Marxism-lite," requires a group of "victims" who must "overcome." 2. It is racist because it sets up the "teeming cities of the muslim world" as cities of unthinking, impulsive, barbarians. 3. It is hypocritical because it is yet another example of the Left's readiness to suppress some kinds of speech, while crying "fascism" every time someone criticizes crucifixes in urine, public school sodomy classes, etc. 4. It is craven because it is, in the end, a reaction driven by fear, just as the thugs intended.
42 posted on 09/25/2006 11:44:51 AM PDT by mondonico (Peace through Superior Firepower)
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To: SirLinksalot

And another thing: the crusades were a response to the bloody subjugation of much of Christendom by islamic murderers and tyrants.


43 posted on 09/25/2006 11:46:23 AM PDT by mondonico (Peace through Superior Firepower)
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To: mondonico

True enough. The Vatican was attacked and looted by Muslims in the 9th century. The First Crusade started in 1095.


44 posted on 09/25/2006 12:08:03 PM PDT by OK
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To: SirLinksalot
"Add to these profound differences a recent history of Western colonial domination, the resulting economic domination by the West, as well as America's present assertion -- via bombs and occupation -- of Western ideals as universal and superior to all others"

She thinks the west is more successful than the middle east because of colonialism, a practice that has cost it's practitioners billions, and she thinks that the Islamic values of slavery, forced conversions, and bombing innocent people, are just as valid as western values of freedom of speech and religion and democracy.

Since this is the reality of her warped world view, it makes sense that she would be on the Muslims side in every argument. She is either mentally ill or has the reasoning abilities of a worm.

She should to be shot as a traitor to civilization.
45 posted on 09/25/2006 1:47:18 PM PDT by monday
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To: OK

I personally have a slight disagremeent with Benedict, no disrespect to him personally. I take issue with his statement --- I RESPECT ISLAM.

I agree with this statement from James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries :

"Please keep this in mind: we must respect the truth by accurately representing, to the best of our abilities, the views of those with whom we disagree. I seek to portray truthfully the views of Muslims, Mormons, Roman Catholics, etc., because of my commitment to truth as it is embodied in Christ, not because of some post-modern, feel-good "respect" for false religions. I see little evidence that the Old Testament prophets "respected" Baal or Molech, let alone the religions that prompted their worship.

So I would not join the Pope in saying "I respect Islam." That is a far cry from saying I do not respect certain Muslims, and, equally far from saying I cannot or will not treat a Muslim with respect. Sadly, people muddle these categories. Modern shallow thinkers assume that if you wish to show respect for a Muslim you must respect Islam. That is untrue. A Muslim is made in the image of God, and though he follows a false religion, he is still due respect due to the fact that he bears the image of God. Of course, some men are worthy of more respect than others. The wild-eyed terrorist who knows nothing but the hope of seventy virgins in heaven but who cannot give evidence of the slightest knowledge of the views of others does not deserve respect. The reasoned Muslim who seeks to portray accurately my beliefs and engage them in dialogue and debate is another case altogether. And of course, there is an entire spectrum between these two extremes."


46 posted on 09/25/2006 1:49:10 PM PDT by SirLinksalot
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To: tigtog

"If we riot and kill based on her words, does that make her words violent?"

True enough. If we offed her because of this article, I guess she would say she had it coming.


47 posted on 09/25/2006 1:53:15 PM PDT by monday
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To: an amused spectator

Thanks for the ping.


48 posted on 09/25/2006 2:58:44 PM PDT by GOPJ (Muslim outrage would be taken more seriously if Muslims weren't such "double standard" hypocrites.)
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To: SirLinksalot

I have wondered about the respect statement also. It could be that he said it in a different language with a slightly different meaning, or is using Islamic logic that it is permissible to deceive in order to prevail in the long run.

This Pope is pretty sharp, and has managed to start a converstion on the moral and logical justifications for using violence to promote one's religion.

It is something that must be done for civilization to muddle through this challenge of one major religion that was charged by its founder to spread the faith by the sword.


49 posted on 09/25/2006 3:01:04 PM PDT by OK
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To: Former Dodger

see #22...LOL!


50 posted on 09/25/2006 3:33:04 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (ENEMY + MEDIA = ENEMEDIA)
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