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Foley could face state charges if federal case is weak
AP via Bradenton Herald ^ | 10/6/06 | BRIAN SKOLOFF

Posted on 10/06/2006 8:59:05 PM PDT by conservative in nyc

Even if former Rep. Mark Foley did not violate federal laws in sexually explicit Internet communications with underage boys, he still could find himself charged under state statutes.

Federal law generally requires a person to meet a minor for sex or at the very least, to attempt to meet, for a crime to have been committed. However, under laws in some states where the Florida Republican communicated with children, an attempt to seduce the victim might be enough for a criminal case.

Federal prosecutors investigating Foley's lurid communications are examining whether Florida authorities might be better positioned to bring criminal charges against Foley, since the state threshold for determining if a crime has been committed is less stringent than federal law, according to a senior Justice Department official who spoke Friday on condition of anonymity.

Foley resigned abruptly last week amid reports he exchanged sexually suggestive communications with teenage boys who worked as pages on Capitol Hill. While his attorney, David Roth, says his client never engaged in sexual activity with a minor, that may not matter in certain states.

E-mails and instant messages released so far indicate Foley communicated with the boys in California and Louisiana, and may have initiated those contacts from Washington, D.C. and Florida. The boys in question were all at least 16 years old at the time of the communications.

Under state law in Florida, where the age of consent is 18, a crime may have been committed if Foley is simply found to have seduced or attempted to seduce a minor. However, a reading of the law is subjective, said JoAnn Carrin, spokeswoman for the state Attorney General's office.

In reference to the term "seduce," Carrin said, "That's open to interpretation."

She declined to elaborate on how Foley's communications may have violated state law.

Jeff Harris, president of the Florida Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers, said it may come down to interpretation of exactly what Foley's intent was.

"He may have just gone to the precipice of a cliff but not jumped, which means he didn't commit a crime," Harris said. "If he's encouraging a minor to commit a sex act, I think you've crossed a legal line. Any time your talking sexually with a minor on a computer, you're flirting with an arrest."

In Louisiana, a felony crime is committed if an adult engages in sexually explicit Internet communications with anyone under 17, said Mike Johnson, a special agent with the Louisiana Attorney General's Office.

"It just has to be sexual in nature," Johnson said.

Washington, D.C. law is a bit trickier.

It is not illegal for an adult to have sexual relations with a person at least 16 years old, so long as that person is not in a position of authority over the minor. However, it is still illegal to communicate any sexually related materials to a minor, such as magazines or any printed material, which could include Internet messages, said Jack King, spokesman for the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers.

"D.C. doesn't have any Internet related statutes regarding Internet related sexual conduct," King said.

In California, it is illegal to send sexually suggestive communications to a minor under 18, said Sandi Gibbons, a spokeswoman for the Los Angeles County District Attorney's Office.

However, Los Angeles criminal defense attorney Mark Geragos said cases are rarely prosecuted if the adult at least doesn't attempt to meet the child.

"Words alone generally are not going to be enough to prove a crime," Geragos said. "You'd have to have some act in furtherance of the lewd talk."

Loyola Law School professor Laurie Levenson added: "That's often why they don't go on these cases because it's hard to prove intent given that the Internet is a world of fantasy."


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: crist; foley; foleygate; law
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From the article, despite all the chatter to the contrary, it doesn't sound like there will be much of a federal case against Congressman Foley. This article outlines various state laws that the Congressman may have violated. Florida looks the most promissing.

Note that this article only discusses the legal aspects of what Foley did. Regardless of what the law says, the Congressman is still a slimeball for sending sex-tinged IMs to minors.

1 posted on 10/06/2006 8:59:06 PM PDT by conservative in nyc
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To: conservative in nyc

The Federal case will be against the Democrats!! POP the POPCORN!!


2 posted on 10/06/2006 9:01:55 PM PDT by Suzy Quzy ("When Cabals Go Kabooms"....upcoming book on Mary McCarthy's Coup-Plotters.)
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To: conservative in nyc

I have yet to read any news article on this Foley case where it is shown a crime has taken place.


If saying a few few off-colored words or sending a few risque messages was illegal, half of MySpace's 100 million users would be in jail.


3 posted on 10/06/2006 9:03:21 PM PDT by TracyTucson (Teachers : Overpaid and Underworked)
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To: conservative in nyc

It seems odd that all these leftists, who are constantly blathering about gay rights, are desperately seeking to persecute Foley for being gay.

I wonder what their homosexual base make of all this?


4 posted on 10/06/2006 9:05:30 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: conservative in nyc
Since congress has exempted itself from laws passed against business, this guy is not subject to misusing government property for personal business.

Nor is he in violation of sexual misconduct for using government property to engage in dalliances with an adult.
5 posted on 10/06/2006 9:06:18 PM PDT by Prost1 (Fair and Unbiased as always!)
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To: conservative in nyc
the Congressman is still a slimeball

Would you feel the same way if he was straight and sent lurid IM's to an 18 year old female?

Do you think that doesn't happen every day?

6 posted on 10/06/2006 9:09:52 PM PDT by zeebee
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To: conservative in nyc

Does Barney Frank use a computer? Oh, never mind, he's a DEM.


7 posted on 10/06/2006 9:12:51 PM PDT by Mark (REMEMBER: Mean spirited, angry remarks against my postings won't feed even one hungry child.)
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To: Mark; AmericanMade1776; Boazo; bitt; Bassfire; Blurblogger; ConservativeMind; ...
Barney & Friends go Hunting Gay Republicans
8 posted on 10/06/2006 9:22:02 PM PDT by End_Clintonism_Now (MONEY IS THE ROOT OF ALL CLINTON!)
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To: zeebee
Would you feel the same way if he was straight and sent lurid IM's to an 18 year old female?

18 year old female former pages? Absolutely. But some of the pages were 17 at the time some of the sexually explicit IMs were sent. I'd feel the same way about it if the former pages were 17 year old females, too.
9 posted on 10/06/2006 9:24:33 PM PDT by conservative in nyc
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To: Cicero
I wonder what their homosexual base make of all this?

To judge by comments on Huffington Post, gays aren't liking this at all.

10 posted on 10/06/2006 9:24:46 PM PDT by RedRover
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To: zeebee
Well, yes. Especially since we're talking about 16, not 18-year-olds. High school juniors. It may indeed happen "every day," but it's not "every day" that a congressman resigns because the news is about to break.
11 posted on 10/06/2006 9:27:11 PM PDT by ER Doc
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To: conservative in nyc

Where do I complain about all of the men around the world who have used Yahoo messenger to wave their penises in front of their webcams. Can I say I am young at heart?


12 posted on 10/06/2006 9:28:56 PM PDT by ClaireSolt (Have you have gotten mixed up in a mish-masher?)
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To: Cicero
Foley isn't being persecuted for being gay. He's being persecuted for hitting on 16-year-old kids. It wouldn't matter if he were straight, and hitting on high school girls. He'd be in the same trouble.
13 posted on 10/06/2006 9:30:15 PM PDT by ER Doc
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To: devolve; End_Clintonism_Now; PhilDragoo; bitt; dixiechick2000
Thanks for the ping ECN, very cute graphic! You can add Smurfa to the list


14 posted on 10/06/2006 9:32:34 PM PDT by potlatch (Does a clean house indicate that there is a broken computer in it?)
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To: ClaireSolt
Tell Grandma Pelosi, but wait till next week. This week the libs are outing and bashing gays.
15 posted on 10/06/2006 9:33:34 PM PDT by 1035rep
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To: conservative in nyc

He is a slimeball, sick, an idiot. But IF the pages were above the age of consent, and IF they were yanking his chain (in a manner of speaking) is there really a justification to be on a headlong search for some way to prosecute him? I like to see people prosecuted for actual crimes, not the latest news cycle.


16 posted on 10/06/2006 9:37:09 PM PDT by Williams
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To: Cicero

Well, Andrew Sullivan by all appearances doesn't seem too happy.

The Dems seem to have insulted members of their own base, insulted social conservatives in this blatant attempt to depress their vote and attack their "leaders" and...they didn't get Hastert's head nor any guarentee they'll take Foley's seat.

I'm trying to see where their net gain here is, and I'm not finding it.


17 posted on 10/06/2006 9:38:08 PM PDT by Soul Seeker (Kobach: Amnesty is going from an illegal to a legal position, without imposing the original penalty.)
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To: Cicero
I wonder what their homosexual base make of all this?

NO DOUBT!

18 posted on 10/06/2006 9:41:34 PM PDT by Echo Talon
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To: ER Doc
Foley isn't being persecuted for being gay. He's being persecuted for hitting on 16-year-old kids. It wouldn't matter if he were straight, and hitting on high school girls. He'd be in the same trouble.

it wouldn't be on the news 24-7 like this case is if it was herto thing(no shock factor)

19 posted on 10/06/2006 9:43:30 PM PDT by Echo Talon
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To: conservative in nyc

Did any of this happen in Florida or was it only from DC?


20 posted on 10/06/2006 9:48:46 PM PDT by tubebender (Growing old is mandatory...Growing up is optional)
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To: ER Doc
Sorry, but the guy in question that received the IMs was 18 at the time, a legal adult. BTW, the legal age of consent in DC is 16. As far as I can tell no law was broken. This is all smear tatics by the Dems. Granted Foley may not have used the best judgement but he was baited on the IMs by LEGAL age adults who set him up to make fun of him.

He may be a slime ball but he broke no laws.

21 posted on 10/06/2006 9:58:00 PM PDT by calex59 (Hillary Clinton is dumber than a one eyed monkey with a brain tumor(credit to Harley69))
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To: Suzy Quzy; Howlin; Txsleuth; AliVeritas; All

"The Federal case will be against the Democrats!! POP the POPCORN!!"

Yep...and it will include a former democrat congressmen, a former district attorney general in(a state I can not name right now),and many other nefarious characters. OHH..and an 'internet service provider'(that will blow your mind)!

The info I gathered during the last week is now in the hands of the FBI(before it was only phoned in to three different agencies in two states....lol...you will understand why at a later date). It is also in the hands of the Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert(faxed). It is in the hands of my attorney(in case I get dragged into this for finding it in open source material and some fancy lawyer wants to try and intimidate me) and trusted friends. It needs to be let out and soon. You folks be the judge! Let the American people decide!

At the very least, these actors in this larger potential conspiracy need to be hauled before a GRAND JURY...and sworn in to testify before the CONGRESS!

Every trusted individual in my life is urging me to release the info. Pretty soon..this is not going to be about Mark Foley and his despicable acts.....and if it does not get brought into these hearings on some technicality...the American people are going to demand separate Congressional Hearings when they hear this!

Folks, there are files disappearing from my computer now...emails dropping into a blackhole...hang up calls from hidden numbers (3 from DC) since I started putting this potential part of the puzzle together.
Thankfully, it has been stored elsewhere and printed out...all of the files and emails.

There are plenty of people now in the know(for you du lurkers and moles)...the story will come out and there is not going to be any way for the dems to spin this one!!

WHEWW...that felt good!

Nite ALL!


22 posted on 10/06/2006 10:15:20 PM PDT by penelopesire
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To: penelopesire

bookmarked


23 posted on 10/06/2006 10:29:29 PM PDT by 1035rep
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To: calex59
Granted Foley may not have used the best judgement but he was baited on the IMs by LEGAL age adults who set him up to make fun of him.

you see, the gays cant be liking this one bit... and the democrats being so happy about it should tell them something.

24 posted on 10/06/2006 10:30:32 PM PDT by Echo Talon
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To: penelopesire

take care and sleep with the shotgun inder the bed. ;)


25 posted on 10/06/2006 10:34:32 PM PDT by Echo Talon
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To: Cicero
From what I understand, they think it is ok, 'cause they want to 'out' all the hypocricial gay GOP congressmen who vote against gay marriage, etc.
26 posted on 10/06/2006 10:38:24 PM PDT by top 2 toe red (To the enemy in Iraq..."Don't bet on American politics forcing my hand!" President Bush)
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To: top 2 toe red
From what I understand, they think it is ok, 'cause they want to 'out' all the hypocricial gay GOP congressmen who vote against gay marriage, etc.

hmmmm... that may be true for the flamers but what about the closeted gays, do you think their upset?

27 posted on 10/06/2006 10:51:59 PM PDT by Echo Talon
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To: ER Doc; potlatch; PhilDragoo; ntnychik; MeekOneGOP; dixiechick2000; Howlin; Congressman Billybob; ..


You're listening to Brian Ross at ABC, Nancy "NAMBLA-Studs-buddy" Pelosi, CREW/Soros

Not any depositions by an attorney or info from the FBI or questioning in a criminal court or DC or other statutes regarding age of consent or fakerooed emails

But then attorneys don't usually know much about ERs either

--

I'm sure public school female teachers do serious time in prison

After the second or third time they violate terms of probation with a young boy

--

One of the most valuable things a person can learn in life is to simply say:

"I don't know anything about that"

Especially using hearsay and bogus MSM news

--

I've heard some say "But there were others"

Really

Who?

What source?

"Just a joke that got out of hand and into George Soros' and Nancy Pelosi's 'hands'?"

It's quite embarrassing to look back at a thread post on FR or LU if you toss out unsubstantiated claims

-

That's OK

Slick Willie & Hillary were turned down by MENSA

--

"Persecuted"/"Prosecuted"

Nobody on FR is saying Mark Foley is not a homosexual or a creep

--

Nobody is saying you raped a girl while in college

We have no alleged "evidence" of that

Unless you are going to DUKE











28 posted on 10/06/2006 10:53:08 PM PDT by devolve (LONE_STAR_LIGHT_&_MAGIC)
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To: Echo Talon
Probably they would be, I hadn't really thought about them. Good point, though. Do you think there are a lot of gays that are not out? I wonder what the percentage is - "out" to "closeted"?

I live in latte-land and I don't think there could possibly be one single gay here that is still in the closet...so, I guess I just forgot that in other parts of the country they are not all flaming, raging ......as they are here. Lol!

29 posted on 10/06/2006 11:06:38 PM PDT by top 2 toe red (To the enemy in Iraq..."Don't bet on American politics forcing my hand!" President Bush)
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To: top 2 toe red
even in lala land I bet their is still some closet cases.
Im not an expert on the subject just makes sense, not everyone is going to be comfortable "coming out" no matter how "friendly" the external gay enviroment is(you know family etc.)
30 posted on 10/06/2006 11:10:35 PM PDT by Echo Talon
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To: Echo Talon
even in lala land I bet their is still some closet cases.

I don't know, maybe, but, honesty I think percentage wise there couldn't possibly be that many.

The gays wear their 'gayness' with such "pride" here and, of course, are the privileged ones to boot.

I kid you not, I've actually wondered if some straight people here don't pretend to be gay because it is so "in."

31 posted on 10/06/2006 11:30:09 PM PDT by top 2 toe red (To the enemy in Iraq..."Don't bet on American politics forcing my hand!" President Bush)
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To: Williams
But IF the pages were above the age of consent, and IF they were yanking his chain (in a manner of speaking) is there really a justification to be on a headlong search for some way to prosecute him?

Whatever the law says, the law says. If there's a law that applies to former Congressman Foley's disgusting IMs sent to 17 year olds (and yes, there was at least one sexually explicit IM exchange sent before a page turned 18) AFTER all the facts are investigated, then it should be applied. If there's no such law, the former Congressman is a disgrace but not a criminal.

Just because something is legal doesn't necessarily make it right.
32 posted on 10/06/2006 11:34:53 PM PDT by conservative in nyc
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To: tubebender
Did any of this happen in Florida or was it only from DC?

Former Congressman Foley claimed to be in Pensacola, Florida when he sent some of his sexually explicit IMs.
33 posted on 10/06/2006 11:35:38 PM PDT by conservative in nyc
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To: calex59
He may be a slime ball but he broke no laws.

Yep. Foley's gonna walk. This is just more DBM gum-flapping to keep the story alive.

34 posted on 10/06/2006 11:58:56 PM PDT by pawdoggie
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To: conservative in nyc

A state is going to prosecute him? In order to do that wouldn't the Congressman have to be in the jurisdiction of the state to be tried for breaking the state law? Sounds like communication over state lines is more prone to be interstate commerce. Also if the the Congressman did this in D.C wouldn't he fall under D.C. law and not the law of another state? Does anyone know where the Congressman did the deed of which he is supposed to be prosecuted in another state?


35 posted on 10/06/2006 11:59:03 PM PDT by old republic
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To: top 2 toe red

LOL!


36 posted on 10/07/2006 12:01:51 AM PDT by Echo Talon
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To: pawdoggie
Yep. Foley's gonna walk. This is just more DBM gum-flapping to keep the story alive.

the whole thing is a BS and selective outrage anyhow.
Think about it 17 year old guy, At 17 I was bench pressing 275#'s and getting into fights at least once every 2 weeks if some dude said he wanted to play with my junk he would be in the hospital! 17year old kids and younger have faught in wars(I graduated at 17), i dont have much sympaty for these kids who if they had a problem with it never made a peep about it.

37 posted on 10/07/2006 12:06:55 AM PDT by Echo Talon
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To: Echo Talon
BTW, spell check does work.. :)
38 posted on 10/07/2006 12:09:00 AM PDT by Echo Talon
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To: Echo Talon
All these "so called" biys are computer savvy. And yet, they didn't know where the "Off" button was. These dudes were "responding".

Ask the question: If YOU got an IM asking intimate questions, would you respond? Of course not.

39 posted on 10/07/2006 3:33:05 AM PDT by Sacajaweau (God Bless Our Troops!!)
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To: calex59

You are correct -- he did not break any laws. And if prosecutors intend to get him on "intent" to break laws -- then I guess they also have plans to round up every single member of NAMBLA, and every Gay Proslytizing member of the NEA and... legislature. Yo, CA D-Sheila Kuhl, Carole Migden, Tom Ammiano.


40 posted on 10/07/2006 4:12:34 AM PDT by Alia
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To: RedRover

David Corn is going to out all the GAY Republican staffers!!!


41 posted on 10/07/2006 5:43:39 AM PDT by Suzy Quzy ("When Cabals Go Kabooms"....upcoming book on Mary McCarthy's Coup-Plotters.)
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To: penelopesire

WAKE UP!!! Tell us more so other freepers can help out even more! I didn't understand why it would envelope a former Dem member and an asst dist. atty.....are we on the wrong track with zeroing in on the Katsaros's and Soros??


42 posted on 10/07/2006 5:48:55 AM PDT by Suzy Quzy ("When Cabals Go Kabooms"....upcoming book on Mary McCarthy's Coup-Plotters.)
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To: penelopesire; Suzy Quzy

Ping!!


43 posted on 10/07/2006 5:49:27 AM PDT by Suzy Quzy ("When Cabals Go Kabooms"....upcoming book on Mary McCarthy's Coup-Plotters.)
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To: conservative in nyc

bttt


44 posted on 10/07/2006 5:54:16 AM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: mtntop3

check out post #22!!!!


45 posted on 10/07/2006 6:01:31 AM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: Suzy Quzy

I've heard that about David Corn's List. Do you know when and where it will be made public?


46 posted on 10/07/2006 6:05:17 AM PDT by RedRover
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To: Echo Talon

"take care and sleep with the shotgun inder the bed. ;)"

check


47 posted on 10/07/2006 6:32:23 AM PDT by penelopesire
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To: Suzy Quzy

"I didn't understand why it would envelope a former Dem member and an asst dist. atty.....are we on the wrong track with zeroing in on the Katsaros's and Soros??"

I would not say that at all..look at how much relevant info freepers and bloggers have turned up already!! It is phenomenal! You guys have been getting to the immediate questions..like who are the actors, who knew and when, etc....that is important stuff. I just went in a different direction and turned up some disturbing info that may or may not have anything to do with this case, but when the American people find out about it....the normal ones are NOT GOING TO WANT TO VOTE FOR A DEMOCRAT FOR A VERY LONG TIME!!

Sometimes if we always shout 'SOROS' (even though he is involved) we start to sound like we blame everything on a left wing conspiracy(even though there is one). It just makes sense to go after the small and medium fish first. Often when they get hauled into a grand jury..they will spill the beans.


48 posted on 10/07/2006 6:43:18 AM PDT by penelopesire
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To: Just mythoughts

Thanks for the tip - hadn't seen it. All power to Penelope...


49 posted on 10/07/2006 6:53:24 AM PDT by mtntop3
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To: penelopesire

Tell us more....what names?? Just give us the former Dem. Cong. name.


50 posted on 10/07/2006 7:17:59 AM PDT by Suzy Quzy ("When Cabals Go Kabooms"....upcoming book on Mary McCarthy's Coup-Plotters.)
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