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Braveheart fight on sword law
The Scotsman (UK) ^ | 10/09/06 | JOANNA VALLELY and JANE BRADLEY

Posted on 10/10/2006 1:15:10 PM PDT by kiriath_jearim

A SWORD-MAKER who creates weapons for Braveheart-style battle re-enactments is to take up the fight against tough new restrictions on the sale of swords.

Paul Macdonald, who owns Macdonald Armouries on Brunswick Street Lane, presented a petition of more than 2000 signatures to the Scottish Parliament last year.

The sword-maker is angry that he will face tough new restrictions on the sale of swords under a Bill, introduced last week and expected to receive parliamentary approval early next year.

Commercial sellers will have to comply with strict new licensing conditions such as keeping full records of all sales and buyers, and complying with restrictions on displaying items.

Now Mr Macdonald has collected another 500 signatures and plans to re-submit his Save Our Swords petition to parliament.

He claims his campaign has gained widespread support from other sword retailers, antique dealers and historical fencers.

Mr Macdonald makes swords costing between £300 and £2000 for collectors, museums and theatre companies. He also makes historically accurate reproductions of swords, mainly with blunt edges for the historical fencing market.

The sword-maker said he now faced having to buy a licence to sell swords which he does not consider any more of a menace to the public than kitchen or Stanley knives. He said: "My concern is that this is red tape for no reason when dealers having a licence will not affect street crime in any way."

The 34-year-old said people who commonly bought swords, such as Highland dancers, auctioneers and museum curators, had signed his petition.

"This is placing an unnecessary burden on sword-makers and I plan to officially resubmit my original petition to parliament with more signatures."

His concerns were echoed by Edinburgh antiques dealer Murdo McLeod, owner of Bow Well Antiques, on the West Bow. He said: "I think this is a knee-jerk reaction by the parliament and it is completely pointless.

"Politicians have said they do not know why people would want to own a sword in this day and age – and the answer is that they are part of our nation’s history and are very beautiful objects."

A spokesman for the Scottish Executive said knife-carrying was all too prevalent in certain parts of Scotland and had cut short and scarred too many young lives.

He said: "It is simply far too easy for these weapons to be bought and sold.

"That is why we intend to make it an offence for anyone in Scotland to sell a sword, subject to a number of exemptions, and require businesses to be licensed to sell non-domestic knives."


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Government; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: banglist

1 posted on 10/10/2006 1:15:11 PM PDT by kiriath_jearim
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To: kiriath_jearim
What's in YOUR wallet?
2 posted on 10/10/2006 1:17:02 PM PDT by kiriath_jearim
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To: kiriath_jearim
The irony of this is that when Scotland was conquered and brutally occupied by England - they banned all arms (swords) from the inhabitants.
3 posted on 10/10/2006 1:17:17 PM PDT by 2banana
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To: kiriath_jearim

Should be OK as long as he makes and/or sells shields, helmets, chain mail and plate armor suits.


4 posted on 10/10/2006 1:18:02 PM PDT by GSlob
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To: kiriath_jearim

Thank God we can still use Poo-Sticks.


5 posted on 10/10/2006 1:19:08 PM PDT by SJSAMPLE
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To: kiriath_jearim
A spokesman for the Scottish Executive said knife-carrying was all too prevalent in certain parts of Scotland

There IS a difference between carrying a knife, even a big knife, and carrying a sword.

How many people, recently, have been killed with a sword in Scotland?

6 posted on 10/10/2006 1:19:44 PM PDT by Just another Joe (Warning: FReeping can be addictive and helpful to your mental health)
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To: kiriath_jearim

I don't have a Scottish sword, but I do own a Turkish Yatagan. I bought it from a farmer in Turkey, who was using it to chop weeds.

It has the typical curved blade, inlaid with bronze decorations, including a date in Arabic, which translates to 1678 in our calendar.

The handles are of water buffalo horn, and the blade is in surprisingly excellent condition, and of Damascus steel.

It hangs over my front door.

I've often wondered if it has drawn blood in anger. I imagine it has, given its age.


7 posted on 10/10/2006 1:20:44 PM PDT by MineralMan (Non-evangelical Atheist)
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To: kiriath_jearim
Good to hear,,,Mite Poke Somebody's Eye Out,,,;0)
8 posted on 10/10/2006 1:22:41 PM PDT by 1COUNTER-MORTER-68 (THROWING ANOTHER BULLET-RIDDLED TV IN THE PILE OUT BACK~~~~~)
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To: kiriath_jearim

Of course, Muslims can buy and own as many swords as they please/s


9 posted on 10/10/2006 1:25:30 PM PDT by Frank_2001
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To: kiriath_jearim

How does knife-carrying cut short a young life?

Am I at risk? I'm carrying a rather nice knife right now, in a special pocket in my pajamas (I'm pajamahadeen, a ceremonial knife and bunny slippers are required)


10 posted on 10/10/2006 1:26:54 PM PDT by DBrow
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To: MineralMan
I've often wondered if it has drawn blood in anger.

Probably not since it likely belonged to an adherent of the Religion of Peace where violence is frowned upon.

11 posted on 10/10/2006 1:26:58 PM PDT by Lekker 1 (("...the world will be...eleven degrees colder by the year 2000" -- K. Watt, Earth Day, 1970)
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To: kiriath_jearim
I knew this knife-banning thing was idiocy, this is just further proof.... Uggh....
12 posted on 10/10/2006 1:27:27 PM PDT by Kaylee Frye
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To: kiriath_jearim

Suit case nukes are OK, but no swords… Got to have your priorities right.


13 posted on 10/10/2006 1:29:04 PM PDT by Lucky Dog
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To: kiriath_jearim
Let's see:
First they came for the bayonets, and I did not speak out-- because I was not a bayonet;
Then they came for the sheath knives, and I did not speak out-- because I was not a sheath knife;
Then they came for the pocket knives, and I did not speak out-- because I was not a pocket knife;
Then they came for the Box Cutters, and I did not speak out-- because I was not a Box Cutter;
Then they came for my Sword-- and there was no one left to speak out for me.

14 posted on 10/10/2006 1:30:55 PM PDT by SWO
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To: kiriath_jearim
Are sword attacks a huge problem in Scotland?
15 posted on 10/10/2006 1:31:58 PM PDT by Jaysun (Idiot Muslims. They're just dying to have sex orgies.)
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To: Lekker 1

"Probably not since it likely belonged to an adherent of the Religion of Peace where violence is frowned upon.
"

Given the date on the blade, I'd guess it belonged to many generations of people. I don't dislike owning it. Not even a little.


16 posted on 10/10/2006 1:36:41 PM PDT by MineralMan (Non-evangelical Atheist)
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To: MineralMan

I'm sure it's at least drawn blood in accident.


17 posted on 10/10/2006 1:37:23 PM PDT by The KG9 Kid
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To: kiriath_jearim
I like this guy! His swords are not your typical wall hangers.


C15th style European rondel dagger with oak grip. Sharp, functional
blade with engraving on one side "If yew would have me" and on the
other side, "Then kiss my maisters arse and take me." This engraving is
provenanced from an original dagger in a Scottish museum. Compleat
with wood lined leather scabbard.
Blade 15"
Overall length 20 1/4"

18 posted on 10/10/2006 1:40:05 PM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: MineralMan

Good find. Your experience obtaining it makes it worth so much more to you and now the rest of us that have heard the story.


19 posted on 10/10/2006 1:41:55 PM PDT by Cold Heart
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To: kiriath_jearim
Politicians have said they do not know why people would want to own a sword in this day and age

What business is it of theirs?

I have around a dozen swords, between my "sharps" and my sparring "blunts". I happen to be into research into the recreation of the Western Martial Arts legacy, but I know literally hundreds of others through social connections who own swords for sporting use and art.

This crap could kill the WMA heritage in GB.

20 posted on 10/10/2006 1:43:11 PM PDT by LexBaird (Another member of the Bush/Halliburton/Zionist/CIA/NWO/Illuminati conspiracy for global domination!)
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To: kiriath_jearim

Swords are ok, Its those assault swords that are dangerous.


21 posted on 10/10/2006 1:45:13 PM PDT by sgtbono2002 (The fourth estate is a fifth column.)
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To: kiriath_jearim
""Politicians have said they do not know why people would want to own a sword in this day and age . . . "

And is just frosts their ass if they can't assume the power to stop people from thinking for themselves and making their own choices, pursuing their own happiness and enjoying their own life and liberty devoid of any interruption or recognition to any polition and being forced into obedience to the state over even the least mundane issue.

On par with the muzzies who can't even think for themselves anymore without referring to a law book to see which is the proper hand to wipe their butts with.

22 posted on 10/10/2006 1:51:26 PM PDT by Eastbound
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To: Cold Heart
While the photo below is not my yatagan, it is almost identical, except the one in the photo does not have the bronze inlays with an inscription and the date. On a side note, the farmer did not want to part with the sword, not because it held much value to him, but he needed to cut the weeds. I got him to sell it to me by buying a brand new machete-style blade and bringing it to him. He liked it much better, and gave me a very good price for his sword.


23 posted on 10/10/2006 1:52:35 PM PDT by MineralMan (Non-evangelical Atheist)
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To: The KG9 Kid

"I'm sure it's at least drawn blood in accident.
"

Heck, it's drawn my blood. I very carefully sharpened it to about as good an edge as is possible. I've cut myself a couple of times.


24 posted on 10/10/2006 1:53:38 PM PDT by MineralMan (Non-evangelical Atheist)
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To: sgtbono2002
Swords are ok, Its those assault swords that are dangerous.

Especially the ones with high-cap magazines...

25 posted on 10/10/2006 2:00:07 PM PDT by bruin66 (Time: Nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once.)
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To: kiriath_jearim
I believe that is a scene from Gladiator.

This is Braveheart:



Also, he seems overpriced. You can get a replica here for $119.

26 posted on 10/10/2006 2:06:14 PM PDT by michigander (The Constitution only guarantees the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself.)
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To: kiriath_jearim

Those sords (who put the w in there?) are dangerous weapons...They have killed a lot of people...


27 posted on 10/10/2006 2:06:16 PM PDT by Iscool
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To: MineralMan
I bought it from a farmer in Turkey, who was using it to chop weeds. It has the typical curved blade, inlaid with bronze decorations, including a date in Arabic, which translates to 1678 in our calendar. The handles are of water buffalo horn, and the blade is in surprisingly excellent condition, and of Damascus steel. It hangs over my front door. I've often wondered if it has drawn blood in anger. I imagine it has, given its age.

Probably beheaded a few infidels and/or Jooo's.

Otherwise, is sound like a nice blade. Curious what a 17th century Damascus Steel sword goes for these days. Have you had it appraised?

28 posted on 10/10/2006 2:17:07 PM PDT by AFreeBird (If American "cowboy diplomacy" did not exist, it would be necessary to invent it.)
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To: Joe Brower

We may not even be able to "Get Medieval" some day.


29 posted on 10/10/2006 2:19:06 PM PDT by philman_36
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To: kiriath_jearim

Ah, the joys of the socialist dominated Scottish Parliament...


Taking Scotland from "Braveheart" to "Nanny and the Professor"


30 posted on 10/10/2006 2:19:46 PM PDT by GreenLanternCorps (The Solution to the GOP's Problems Isn't More Democrats!!!)
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To: kiriath_jearim

A dirk is often worn with a formal kilt. Wonder what that will do to that.

I have a dirk that has come down through the family, and I know for certain it has drawn blood


31 posted on 10/10/2006 2:20:03 PM PDT by Starwolf
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To: AFreeBird

"Otherwise, is sound like a nice blade. Curious what a 17th century Damascus Steel sword goes for these days. Have you had it appraised?
"

It is a great blade. The steel is about the hardest I've ever encountered on a blade. The tempering is variable, and there is a thick ridge at the top of the blade that is almost soft as cast iron. The edge portion is hard as a file. You can shave with the sharpened edge. I don't know how they managed that zoned tempering, frankly.

As for its value...yes, I have had it appraised. Its value is shocking, due to its age and the inscription inlaid into the blade, even though I haven't been able to get a decent translation. It's likely a verse from the Koran, but the arabic script is simplified to a point that nobody's been able to give me a translation. The date, however, is clear.

I have no interest in selling it, of course. It cost me a total of about $10, including the cost of the machete-type blade I bought to trade with the farmer. My Turkish was wholly inadequate to get any history from the farmer, so I have no idea where he acquired it.

There's lots of ancient stuff in Turkey, and it seems to have little value to the Turks. I wish I hadn't been a stupid 21-year-old kid when I was there, back in 1967-68. I'd have invested all of my pay into buying stuff. Stupid.

I suppose it belongs in a museum. Never happen until I'm dead.


32 posted on 10/10/2006 2:26:47 PM PDT by MineralMan (Non-evangelical Atheist)
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To: MineralMan

Anyone who has not cut himself (minor) sharpening a knife is: compulsively cautious, or; doesn't own many knives, or: most commonly, carries about a dull knife, the most dangerous kind to use. A half-dull knife makes its owner try too hard and when it finally slices through its bit of work, there is the tip of one of your off-hand digits just waiting to get sliced off.


33 posted on 10/10/2006 2:36:45 PM PDT by barkeep (Post Hoc, Ergo Propter Hoc)
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To: kiriath_jearim
"... "Politicians have said they do not know why people would want to own a sword in this day and age... A spokesman for the Scottish Executive said "It is simply far too easy for these weapons to be bought and sold."

Also, hunting is unnecessary because we have supermarkets. Thinking is unnecessary because we have politicians and TV to do your thinking for you.

Back in your cages, you unruly serfs! Keep it quiet in there!

34 posted on 10/10/2006 2:51:13 PM PDT by The KG9 Kid
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To: kiriath_jearim

Naturally, once they've eliminated the private possession of swords, they'll have to do the same with kitchen knives, large-sized carving forks, shovels, hoes, rakes, chain saws, ball peen hammers and - eventually - socks filled with horse manure. The latter of which this Scottish parliament is rapidly, and eagerly, spreading all over the landscape.


35 posted on 10/10/2006 4:07:23 PM PDT by Jack Hammer
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To: barkeep

That's definitely true. I'm a nut for keeping my knives sharp, from the kitchen to my pocket. A knife is a tool, and only a sharp knife is a good tool.

My pocket knife is a Schrade Old Timer three bladed stockman's knife. A fine tool...sadly, no longer made. I have three brand new ones in their boxes in my top drawer, waiting for the day when I need them. Those should last the rest of my life, since I'm already 61, and still have the knife I bought 10 years ago.


36 posted on 10/10/2006 4:51:42 PM PDT by MineralMan (Non-evangelical Atheist)
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To: michigander

That replica "sword" is only suitable for decoration and will break if you hit something with it- as dangerous to you as to your opponent. Swords that you can use for test cuts and martial arts are much more fun. Look here for functional swords starting at about $300: www.albion-swords.com


37 posted on 10/10/2006 11:34:30 PM PDT by Old Dirty Bastiat
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To: MineralMan

My dad was a nut for collecting knives, swords, and ulus...when he died, and I had to go through all of his stuff, I could not believe how many different knives he had...hundreds of them, most of them still pristine in their boxes...he had those knives that he used on an everyday basis, but just had a thing about having lots and lots of other knives...

So we gave one to each of his favorite nephews, and my son and my husband split the rest of them...my son took all of the swords, as he loves swords himself...

My dad also had a fine collection of billy clubs, and handcuffs...he just liked collecting these things...


38 posted on 10/11/2006 10:51:13 AM PDT by andysandmikesmom
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To: GSlob

Not much point in that without the weapon which all the armour etc. was meant to protect against!

Shields or breastplates displayed on a wall are 'castrated' without the swords!

Swords such as the basket-hilted broadsword variety used by Officers of Highland Regiments, Pipe Bands, and Highland Dancers are as much a part of our heritage as tartans. The Scots, unlike the English who were conquered and subdued by an invading foreign aristocracy, were a martial race up to more recent times and the carrying of the sword by civilian warriors was all part of the clan system where allegiance was given to the clan via the Laird.

Swords have come to symbolise honour duty and obligation in many cultures, but in Scotland, unlike England and Europe, they do so for all clansmen not simply the aristocracy or officer class. They remind Scots that they had to sometimes fight for what they believed in. In Scotland where the social divisions originally ran vertically (between clans) rather than horizontally (class) as in England, the Basket-Hilt displayed with Targe (circular shield) and Tartan gives a sense of history and belonging that only the nobility in other cultures can enjoy.

As to the knife wielding urban scum, - how many have or are likely to use a Basket-Hilted Broadsword?

Those who cannot understand why anyone has a legitimate purpose in owning a sword in the 21st Century, do so because they are culturally bankrupt and have no understanding ideas and emotions beyond those of a consumer society.

The Kerr clan motto is 'late but in earnest'; it relates to a battle not the January sales!


39 posted on 10/17/2006 8:42:03 PM PDT by Mike Martlet
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To: Mike Martlet

IIRC, in early Middle Ages they for a while had a fashion of trying to make an impact with rather heavy and blunt objects - from boulders to maces and threshers. Don't you even now feel an occasional urge to empty the wastebasket [or worse] from a high window on some barbarian several floors below, on the street?


40 posted on 10/17/2006 8:56:20 PM PDT by GSlob
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