Posted on 10/21/2006 6:52:00 AM PDT by El Oviedo
What's going to happen is this is going to boil over one day and we're going to have 1968 all over again, or worse. Personally I would rather not go back there, but that looks like the track we're heading down, IMO.
Nope. The letter was written in Spanish. The word "immigrant" in the English translation does not appear in the original version. From another thread, the corresponding sentence is:
"Se le avisa que si su residencia en este país es ilegal o si es emigrado, votar en una eleción federal es un delito que podrá resultar en encarcelamiento, y sí será deportado por votar sin tener derecho a ello."There was some debate about the meaning, because apparently the grammar is wrong. The boldface part roughly translates to, "if your residence in this country is illegal or if it is emigrated."
I would guess that the "si es emigrado" part refers to the case of the reader (not his residence) being an emigrant from another country (but not necessarily an immigrant to this country). Someone in the process of immigration to this country must have first left his home country, hence one could say this person has already emigrated. Until he is naturalized, he's not a citizen. In English, we call these foreigners "aliens," but perhaps there's a different word in Spanish that the letter writer wished to avoid using. We often further divide aliens into illegal aliens and legal aliens, so it would make sense for the letter writer to separate both these groups from citizens, whom he encouraged to vote.
There is no way to politely say this. You are simply wrong. Immigrants can't vote until and unless they become naturalized citizens.
A person may be an immigrant (legal or illegal) or they may be a citizen but they can't be both. When an immigrant becomes a citizen, they cease being an immigrant.
Citizens can be recent immigrants but they aren't immigrants.
Posting 12 replies based on ignorance of US code is not helping this forum or its membership. Take a few minutes to look up the code sections and the definition of immigrant, as it applies to this matter, and then rejoin the discussion and contribute.
Please.
A closer street translation would be:
if you emigrated to this country and your residence here is illegal
In many languages, including English, emigration has the connotation of a personal decision, as in an escape, while immigration implies government cooperation and approval.
I am a native Spanish speaker myself and I discussed the matter with other Spanish speakers in Post 39.
The meaning of the English translation is faithful to the meaning of original Spanish text.
From Post 39:
*******
Original Spanish text of the letter:
“Se le avisa que si su residencia en este pais es ilegal o si es emigrado, votar en una elección federal es un delito que podra resultar en encarcelamiento, y sera deportado por votar sin tener derecho a ello.”
According to “Nuevo Pequeño Larousse Ilustrado, Diccionario Enciclopedico”, adapatacion española de Miguel de Torro y Gisbert, Doctor en Letras Correspondiente de la Academia española:
“ EMIGRADO: emigrante.”
“EMIGRANTE: Individuo que emigra.”
“EMIGRAR: Salir de su pais para establecerse en otro”
So, in effect:
“Se le avisa que si {ha salio de su pais para establecerse en los EEUU}, votar en una elección federal es un delito que podra resultar en encarcelamiento, y sera deportado por votar sin tener derecho a ello.”
***********
The dictionary mentioned is a Spanish to Spanish dictionary written by a Doctor of the Spanish Academy of Letters (AKA "The Spanish Language Police").
EMIGRADO: emigrante ...... "emmigrant".
EMIGRANTE: Individuo que emigra..... "Someone who emmigrates"
EMIGRAR (EMIGRATE): Salir de su pais para establecerse en otro...... "To leave your original country in order to establish yourself in a different country"
As I noted in Post 39, either in English or Spanish, it is extremely careless language that states that, if you were born in another country and came to the U.S. to establish yourself here ( in other words, you are an immigrant), voting in a Federal election is a crime that could result in your imprisonment and would result in your deportation.
Non sequitur.
As I have stated in multiple posts, the fact that someone is an immigrant and their current citizenship status are two totally separate legal issues.
**********
FROM POST 38:
.....the adjectives deal with place of birth and citizenship status that are separate legal issues and can yield several different combinations of legal status.
Immigrant + illegal entry = Illegal Alien not eligible to vote
Immigrant + legal entry = Resident Alien not eligible to vote
Immigrant + legal entry or amnesty + naturalization = U.S. citizen eligible to vote after age 18 but not eligible to be President of the United States
Native born = U.S. citizen eligible to vote after age 18 and eligible to be President of the United States
The only "types of persons" that are "distinct" and mutually exclusive are "native born" and "illegal".
The Immigrant, however, can be anything from an illegal alien not eligible to vote to a legal resident not eligible to vote to a U.S. Senator or a Governor of California eligible to vote but not eligible to become President of the United States.
38 posted on 10/21/2006 10:02:19 AM PDT by Polybius
Thank you, AmeriBrit. I was about to post the same thing!
I agree with you and Williams. It would have been better to say if you are "not a legal US citizen. When "immigrant" was used it was meant in that context. The candidate is running on a strong "anti-illegal immigration" platform. I have no problem with what this candidate was trying to do. Democrats do not like Vietnamese people. They came here not only because they hate communism but also because they believe in the American Dream... those two reasons are enough to make you an enemy of the democrat party.
L
Thank you.
Thank you. Anyway, Sanchez is a carpetbagger, and until proven otherwise, I believe she is behind this.
Even so..... a portion of multi millions of legal and illegal immigrants and insurgents WILL VOTE.. and change voting demographics in the United States for the forseeable future ..
It's not a "Hate Crime" but it is certainly not the truth. Immigrants that have become citizens most certainly can vote - the governor overreacted, but being an immigrant himself he was probably very insulted by it. Totally out of bounds, dishonest behavior by whoever is responsible for writing it.
Lying is not telling the truth. We haven't gotten that relative around here as to what "facts" are, have we?
Disagree. This was not a legal document or a court filing - it was correspondence.
Immigrant + legal entry or amnesty + naturalization = U.S. citizen eligible to vote after age 18 but not eligible to be President of the United States.
That is accurate, but not the point causing confusion in this discussion. The point causing the confusion is the insistence that, for the purpose of determining federal voting rights, a citizen may also be an immigrant. By definition of the Act, a citizen can not be an immigrant.
As I implied before, ignorance of, or refusal to acknowledeg the implications of, the law is not helping this discussion and the apparently stubborn defense of that ignorance or refusal is hurting the discussion.
I understand the motive, tradition, but that stance does not shed light on the veracity of the contents of the letter in a legal arena, which is the subject of this thread : allegations of a hate crime.
Whatever it was, it was no crime.
Arnold is an idiot. He should go back to making almost watchable action films.
L
Yeah. This is a political hatchet job, being conducted by the MSM, the state(whores) and the administration(double whores) : )
The letter did not contain the word immigrant or any reference to immigration.
Emigrado, the masculine past participle of the verb emigrar (to emigrate) was used.
The street implication was; if you voluntarily left your country of origin without government knowledge, assistance or approval.
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