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Where have all the black soldiers gone? African-Americans not in Eastwood's new WWII film
The Guardian (UK) ^ | October 21, 2006 | Dan Glaister

Posted on 10/22/2006 2:41:18 PM PDT by EveningStar

On February 19 1945 Thomas McPhatter found himself on a landing craft heading toward the beach on Iwo Jima...

Sadly, Sgt McPhatter's experience is not mirrored in Flags of Our Fathers, Clint Eastwood's big-budget, Oscar-tipped film of the battle for the Japanese island that opened on Friday in the US. While the film's battle scenes show scores of young soldiers in combat, none of them are African-American. Yet almost 900 African-American troops took part in the battle of Iwo Jima, including Sgt McPhatter...

(Excerpt) Read more at guardian.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: blackhistory; clinteastwood; flagsofourfathers; history; iwojima; point008percent; racism; wwii
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1 posted on 10/22/2006 2:41:20 PM PDT by EveningStar
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To: Howlin; onyx; Clemenza; Petronski; GummyIII; SevenofNine; martin_fierro; veronica; Xenalyte; ...

Misc ping list


2 posted on 10/22/2006 2:42:17 PM PDT by EveningStar
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To: EveningStar

It would be really funny if Clint Eastwood and the leftist jerk he hired to write the script did a really slimy left-wing hit job on one of our most precious national icons, the flag-raising at Iwo Jima and the courage and sacrifice it represents, and then all the leftists jump on him because he forgot to include pictures of the black troops.

The more I hear about this movie, the less I am inclined to go see it.


3 posted on 10/22/2006 2:46:22 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: EveningStar
Segregated units would mean focusing on more than one platoon, difficult to do with the source material and in the span of a 2.5 hour movie.

The current generation(s) (other than history buffs), has no interest in war movies, especially WWII films (Saving Private Ryan being the last hurrah for this genre), no matter how patriotic. This is why this film is tanking at the box office (and its young people who drive ticket sales).

BTW: Best movies out right now are the Departed and The Last King of Scotland

4 posted on 10/22/2006 2:49:24 PM PDT by Clemenza (Why live anymore?)
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To: EveningStar
There's something wrong with Eastwood.

His last boxing movie was horrible.

And I couldn't stand Mystic River. Ugh.

Unforgiven was OK, but I don't know why he's heralded as a great director. Most of his stuff is liberal schlok IMO.

5 posted on 10/22/2006 2:54:28 PM PDT by Siena Dreaming
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To: Clemenza
I heard The Departed was extremely crude.

I was looking forward to The Guardian but it was too full of cookie-cutter stereotypes to be a good flick.

6 posted on 10/22/2006 2:56:07 PM PDT by Siena Dreaming
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To: Clemenza

History shows that the armed forces in WWII were segregated and the majority of blacks in that time were not allowed to fight. They were delegated to mess stewards and manual labor units. The armed services were not desegregated until 1946 when Truman did so under executive order. Even then, it took time to complete.


7 posted on 10/22/2006 2:56:46 PM PDT by DownInFlames
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To: EveningStar

There were about 6 or 7 Black Soldiers or Marines listening to the pre-invasion briefing on the ship scene, but only seen then and no other time.


8 posted on 10/22/2006 2:56:50 PM PDT by RaceBannon (Innocent until proven guilty: The Pendleton 8)
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To: EveningStar
We must have equality and quotas in movies to represent minorities! /alittlesarc

Seriously, one would think he would cast an accurate representation of the people who were there.
9 posted on 10/22/2006 2:57:21 PM PDT by KoRn
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To: EveningStar

Is this film good, or is it PC?


10 posted on 10/22/2006 2:58:25 PM PDT by Howlin (Why Won't Nancy Pelosi Let Louis Freeh Investigate the Page Scandal?)
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To: DownInFlames

In some of the videos of Iwo, some Black soldiers were interviewed. They drove the DUKW, the transport.


11 posted on 10/22/2006 2:58:25 PM PDT by RaceBannon (Innocent until proven guilty: The Pendleton 8)
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To: Cicero
The more I hear about this movie, the less I am inclined to go see it.

Amen!

12 posted on 10/22/2006 2:59:39 PM PDT by Petronski (CNN is an insidiously treasonous, enemy propaganda organ.)
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To: RaceBannon

Race, what did you think of the film?


13 posted on 10/22/2006 2:59:59 PM PDT by Howlin (Why Won't Nancy Pelosi Let Louis Freeh Investigate the Page Scandal?)
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To: Howlin

The film was certainly not pro-Japan as I heard it was earlier, but it seemed to over emphasize the anti AMerican Indian sentiment.

We DID call any Marine who was an Indian, CHIEF, but it was always a nickname of respect, like an unwritten rule, but we never called his women squaw.


14 posted on 10/22/2006 3:00:01 PM PDT by RaceBannon (Innocent until proven guilty: The Pendleton 8)
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To: RaceBannon

I didn't see the movie. I had to abbreviate the title in order to fit it into the field. The full title reads: "Where have all the black soldiers gone? African-Americans written out of Pacific war in Clint Eastwood's new film, veterans say"


15 posted on 10/22/2006 3:00:22 PM PDT by EveningStar
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To: EveningStar
Sixty years ago today [February 19, 1945], more than 110,000 Americans and 880 ships began their assault on a small volcanic island in the Pacific, in the climactic battle of the last year of World War II.

900 out of 110,000. Leftist Brits are a crowd of sniveling nitpicking racist Muzzie-appeasing PCers.

Maybe we could round them up and donate them to al-Qaeda for the newest rounds of Internet snuff flicks. I'm sure their PC attitudes would save them from the jihadists...

***snicker***

16 posted on 10/22/2006 3:01:31 PM PDT by an amused spectator (Hezbollah: Habitat for Humanity with an attitude)
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To: Howlin

Have no idea. Have not seen it and don't plan to. Both Richard Roeper (flaming lib) and Michael Medved (conservative) have given it high marks. Not everyone has.


17 posted on 10/22/2006 3:02:46 PM PDT by EveningStar
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To: DownInFlames

>History shows that the armed forces in WWII were segregated and the majority of blacks in that time were not allowed to fight.

That's pretty much what my Dad told me. He fought in WWII in Sicily, Italy and France in the 3rd Infantry Division. He earned two bronze stars and several unit citations. He said black soldiers would mock them when they headed out to battle.


18 posted on 10/22/2006 3:02:46 PM PDT by CAWats (And I will make no distinction between the terrorists and the Democrats)
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To: RaceBannon
We DID call any Marine who was an Indian, CHIEF

Get caught crossing your arms more than once... and someone will call you chief.

19 posted on 10/22/2006 3:05:26 PM PDT by johnny7 (“And what's Fonzie like? Come on Yolanda... what's Fonzie like?!”)
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To: EveningStar
Not having seen the movie and not sure I will.
But, Ira Hayes was a study in culture/race contrasts of that period. I don't think the intent of the film was to shoe horn a second layer of self analysis on top of the one that lies near center of the story.

Besides, I'm still mad that someone in Hollyweird stuck a token Moor into a perfectly good Robin Hood movie a few years back.

20 posted on 10/22/2006 3:06:01 PM PDT by norton
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To: Howlin

I saw it twice now, wasn't too impressed the first time, but after the second, it was okay.

It moves slow, it is NOT a war movie, it is a story of Doc Bradley mostly and what his experiences were, with a few shots of his son holding the interviews.

I will buy it when it comes out.

It does show Ira Hayes having a breakdown in a fair way.

The action was okay, the language was realistic, not perverse for the sake of swearing all the time like Saving Private Ryan

The flag raising scene was realistic, but they really flubbed the first flag raising and taking down the flag, some pictures show the old flag down just as the new flag went up, but in the movie the old one is carried away first.

The book spoke more of the men who raised the first flag, the movie does show the Marines and Navy reaction to seeing the first flag well, no drama

In fact, I was kind of impressed at how non chalant the flag raisings were caught on screen, not overly dramatized or over acted.

All the conversations of the photographers were right out of their own bios, they got that exact from their memories


21 posted on 10/22/2006 3:06:16 PM PDT by RaceBannon (Innocent until proven guilty: The Pendleton 8)
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To: norton
Besides, I'm still mad that someone in Hollyweird stuck a token Moor into a perfectly good Robin Hood movie a few years back.

You racist! :)

22 posted on 10/22/2006 3:07:28 PM PDT by EveningStar
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To: DownInFlames
History shows that the armed forces in WWII were segregated and the majority of blacks in that time were not allowed to fight. They were delegated to mess stewards and manual labor units. The armed services were not desegregated until 1946 when Truman did so under executive order. Even then, it took time to complete.

When I was in the service during the Korean War [1950-1952] I never saw an integrated unit, although I had heard that there were a [very] few around.

23 posted on 10/22/2006 3:07:44 PM PDT by curmudgeonII (One man...and the Lord...are a majority.)
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To: RaceBannon

I have been hearing stuff about it being vaguely alluding to Iraq; did you get that impression?


24 posted on 10/22/2006 3:08:39 PM PDT by Howlin (Why Won't Nancy Pelosi Let Louis Freeh Investigate the Page Scandal?)
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To: EveningStar

I plan to see this film. Most of his films are very good. I am sure he meant to pay tribute to our troops, and did NOT mean to neglect black troops.

I like Clint Eastwood as an actor, as a director and as a man.

While he served as Mayor of Carmel, he was considered to be the "conservative."


25 posted on 10/22/2006 3:11:15 PM PDT by truth_seeker
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To: Howlin

When they were brought back to the US, they had a meeting with a treasury guy, who explained to them how the public was growing against the war, the US was going broke.

I was wondering how much was true, I never heard any of that, but it is in Bradley's book, too.

No obvious connection to Iraq, just that rambling.


26 posted on 10/22/2006 3:13:15 PM PDT by RaceBannon (Innocent until proven guilty: The Pendleton 8)
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To: Clemenza

"BTW: Best movies out right now are the Departed and The Last King of Scotland"

What?? No Employee of the Month????? I see an Oscar for Jessica Simpson ;-)


27 posted on 10/22/2006 3:15:03 PM PDT by MPJackal ("If you are not with us, you are against us.")
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To: EveningStar
THIS STORY IS FALSE. THE MOVIE DOES SHOW BLACK SOLDIERS.

They're just not featured prominently, that's all...

28 posted on 10/22/2006 3:19:25 PM PDT by gaijin
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To: RaceBannon
it seemed to over emphasize the anti AMerican Indian sentiment.

Only time I ever hear of this is from people who weren't alive at the time. The Indian wars ended 50 years earlier. Some Generals such as MacArthur had living memory of the Indian Wars while growing up on a West Texas outpost. Not even MacArthur made any negative mention of Indians in his book "Reminiscences".

29 posted on 10/22/2006 3:23:22 PM PDT by fso301
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To: gaijin

I did not read the whole article. I got a little ways into it and got angry at the victicrat BS. I almost posted a graphic of a guy playing a violin in the comments section. I also felt like saying "cry me a river."


30 posted on 10/22/2006 3:23:51 PM PDT by EveningStar
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To: RaceBannon
I was wondering how much was true, I never heard any of that, but it is in Bradley's book, too.

It was enormously expensive. The Treasury actually lent out all it's silver to The Manhattan Project.

31 posted on 10/22/2006 3:25:31 PM PDT by fso301
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To: EveningStar
almost 900 African-American troops took part in the battle of Iwo Jima, including Sgt McPhatter...

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

This is the despicable left at their worst. There were over 70,000 marines that fought on Iwo. Over 8700 died. over 20,000 casualties. The 900 black marines, while heroes all, are a statistically insignificant 1% of the troops. The movie deals extensively with the six flag raisers. One of the six is an American Indian and arguably is the most poignant character in the movie. Why carp about black representation? This is totally irrelevant to point of the movie to even discuss this. These pacifists are just looking for an excuse to slam the movie, because they don't want to give the brave heroes of this battle any credit whatsoever. Read the book, see the movie, and be uplifted by the actions of the greatest generation.
32 posted on 10/22/2006 3:26:33 PM PDT by photodawg
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To: EveningStar

It sounds like what Glaister is saying is, if you go to the movies to watch the "black soldiers," forget about it.


33 posted on 10/22/2006 3:28:41 PM PDT by FlingWingFlyer ("Today We FREEP! Tomorrow We Vote!")
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To: KoRn
So you're going to INSIST - because the liberal hate-America-first crowds hates this picture of an American victory - that Eastwood focus not on the small group that raised the flag but on some other bunch of 900 Marines out of, what, 25,000 that landed?

Heck, that would mean I'M insulted because he didn't focus on the 15,000 Navy engineers who were slaving below decks in 125 degree enginerooms to produce power and propulsion and drinking water for the (not-shown either!) Navy gunners who were shooting at the Japs.
34 posted on 10/22/2006 3:31:43 PM PDT by Robert A. Cook, PE (I can only donate monthly, but Hillary's ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: photodawg

"almost 900 African-American troops took part in the battle of Iwo Jima, including Sgt McPhatter...

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

This is the despicable left at their worst."

It's certainly misleading.

From "Black Service Units in the Combat Zone":

In the Iwo Jima landings, beginning on 19 February 1945, the 442d and 592d Port Companies and the 471st, 473d, and 476th Amphibian Truck Companies were assigned to the Garrison Force but attached to the V Amphibious Corps (Marine) for the assault. One port company remained attached to corps; the other went to the 5th Marine Division. One Dukw company was attached to the 13th Marine Regiment, one remained attached to corps, and the third was attached to the 4th Marine Division with the primary mission of hauling ammunition and cargo for the 14th Marine Regiment and evacuating casualties from the beaches. The 592d Port Company, divided into three groups, landed in the fourth wave and began unloading small boats as they arrived on the beach; three of its crane operators went to the 5th Pioneer Battalion where they operated eight-ton cranes on the beach. The Dukw companies, carrying ammunition and supplies between ship and shore and returning to ships with wounded from the beaches, were given full credit by the Marine Corps for their work in the Iwo Jima landings.

http://www.qmfound.com/black_service_units_in_combat.htm


35 posted on 10/22/2006 3:33:08 PM PDT by Sam Hill
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To: photodawg
I agree completely. The plight of the American Indian flag-raiser is central to the movie, and even PANDERED to.

Later, after his US return, the fact that he remains poor and dignified is something with all the subtlety of a turn in a punch bowl.

And there is a scene in which as he is tilling a field in the hot sun, a carload of rich lilly-white honkies pile out suddenly and barge in brusquely for a photo with Tonto-the-Hero, whose work is interrupted without warning. And they tip him a nickel, or something before again driving off, just as suddenly...

And the scene is designed to show what meagre gruel his heroism has brought him, and how honkies are insensitive.

AND SORRY, but the movie DOES show black soldiers! It's just that they didn't get suuuuuper PC with the black MIT Ph.D. computer engineer/physicist who sweeps all the Japanese defenders off the rock, that's all.

DO NOT FALL FOR THIS B.S...!!!

What they're pissed about is that the obligatory White Guilt went to a NON-BLACK MINORITY.

36 posted on 10/22/2006 3:35:40 PM PDT by gaijin
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To: fso301; patton; sionnsar; Cyber Liberty; coolbreeze; Texan5; xsmommy
I was wondering how much was true, I never heard any of that, but it is in Bradley's book, too.

It was enormously expensive. The Treasury actually lent out all it's silver to The Manhattan Project.

Well, yes and no.

The Treasury silver was used in the Manhattan project, but not for its money value.

Silver and gold are the absolute best electrical conductors in the world (copper is much worse compared to those two) and when the Manhattan Project had to make extremely high-powered, high-current, extremely small electromagnets, only silver could be used in the wires. Copper wires would simply have heated up too much.

SO the Treasury "moved" the silver from the mints into the magnets. It was still US money, just not the same shape, and in a slightly different "vault" under different "guards"....
37 posted on 10/22/2006 3:37:15 PM PDT by Robert A. Cook, PE (I can only donate monthly, but Hillary's ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: EveningStar
Yet almost 900 African-American troops took part in the battle of Iwo Jima

Out of how many troops again?

38 posted on 10/22/2006 3:38:44 PM PDT by bnelson44 (Proud parent of a tanker! (Charlie Mike, son))
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To: gaijin
Almost forgot! The multi-culti's were also pissed at Lord of the Rings..! Why, you ask..? Hey, not enough blacks in those Norweigen legions...! We need more heroic black elf archers...!

I wish I could say I were making it up..!

Oh! Same thing for Jar-Jar Binks, from the Star Wars series...they said Jar-Jar was stealth black, and that because he was RIDICULOUS, well, that makes all blacks ridiculous...

But then later the gay mafia also had to get their dig in, and claim Jar-Jar had been GAY, and a negative image of gays...

HAHAHAH....! You can't make this stuff up..!

39 posted on 10/22/2006 3:43:05 PM PDT by gaijin
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To: bnelson44
Yet almost 900 African-American troops took part in the battle of Iwo Jima Out of how many troops again?

I think the first wave had 30,000 troops and the second landing was around 30 or 40,000 more.

40 posted on 10/22/2006 3:44:37 PM PDT by Bommer (If people evolved from apes, why are there still apes?)
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To: EveningStar

FDR(a LIBERAL DEM) did not let "Black" Americans serve in the frontline is WW II.


41 posted on 10/22/2006 3:44:46 PM PDT by US Navy guy
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To: US Navy guy

Being a natural socialist, FDR also ordered that Japanese-Americans be sent to a rural network of American gulags.


42 posted on 10/22/2006 3:50:13 PM PDT by gaijin
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To: EveningStar

BTTT


43 posted on 10/22/2006 3:50:17 PM PDT by Fiddlstix (Warning! This Is A Subliminal Tagline! Read it at your own risk!(Presented by TagLines R US))
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To: EveningStar; norton
Conan Doyle wrote a couple of really good historical novels set in 14th c. England.

A black African sailor created quite a sensation in Sussex, believe me. Most people in England at that time had never seen a black man.

44 posted on 10/22/2006 3:50:59 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: CAWats; DownInFlames
My dad says the same thing too. He was in Africa, Sicily, and Italy.

He also said that some of the truck drivers refused to do their work at Anzio under fire, the CO had to threaten to shoot them on the spot.

45 posted on 10/22/2006 3:53:06 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: EveningStar
The failure to transfer the active role played by African-Americans at Iwo Jima to the big screen does not surprise him. "One of the marines I interviewed said that the people who were filming newsreel footage on Iwo Jima deliberately turned their cameras away when black folks came by. Blacks are not surprised at all when they see movies set where black troops were engaged and never show on the screen. I would like to say that it was from ignorance but anybody can do research and come up with books about African-Americans in world war two. I think it has to do with box office and what producers of movies think Americans really want to see."

Were the black guys actors? I tend to think that only actors would be permitted on the set, as well as various crew. Whether the director decided to eliminate that portion of the film in the editing room, or whether he changed his mind at the last moment before filming I can't say. But if black actors were on the set to be filmed, we can't say that Eastwood didn't have the intention of including them in the film.

46 posted on 10/22/2006 3:58:14 PM PDT by Victoria Delsoul
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To: Clemenza

My son saw 'Departed' last night and said it was "good".
Believe me, when my son says a movie is "good", it must be a potential Oscar winner for best picture.


47 posted on 10/22/2006 4:02:53 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE

LOL. Sort of.


48 posted on 10/22/2006 4:03:38 PM PDT by patton (Sanctimony frequently reaps its own reward.)
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE
"So you're going to INSIST"

I neither said or implied such a thing. Take your passion elsewhere.

49 posted on 10/22/2006 4:06:40 PM PDT by KoRn
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To: AnAmericanMother

In VN I saw the same sort of stuff.

It was like a mini-war at times at base.

We actually had 3 murders in our compound in Quang Tri
the culprits wern`t Amish

I`m gonna see the movie,had an uncle died at Iwo.


50 posted on 10/22/2006 4:10:30 PM PDT by 31M20RedDevil ( Wish we had a Ronald Reagan today (deep sigh))
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