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Where have all the black soldiers gone? African-Americans not in Eastwood's new WWII film
The Guardian (UK) ^ | October 21, 2006 | Dan Glaister

Posted on 10/22/2006 2:41:18 PM PDT by EveningStar

On February 19 1945 Thomas McPhatter found himself on a landing craft heading toward the beach on Iwo Jima...

Sadly, Sgt McPhatter's experience is not mirrored in Flags of Our Fathers, Clint Eastwood's big-budget, Oscar-tipped film of the battle for the Japanese island that opened on Friday in the US. While the film's battle scenes show scores of young soldiers in combat, none of them are African-American. Yet almost 900 African-American troops took part in the battle of Iwo Jima, including Sgt McPhatter...

(Excerpt) Read more at guardian.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: blackhistory; clinteastwood; flagsofourfathers; history; iwojima; point008percent; racism; wwii
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To: EveningStar

I've seen the picture of the flag raising many times and can't remember any black soldiers involved with the raising of that flag. So what's the big deal.


51 posted on 10/22/2006 4:15:22 PM PDT by fish hawk
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To: DownInFlames

My great-uncle was on Okinawa with the Marines. He certainly was not doing 'mess' duty then.


52 posted on 10/22/2006 4:15:49 PM PDT by Skywalk (Transdimensional Jihad!)
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To: 31M20RedDevil

My F-I-L was on Iwo, his jeep was blown up, he escaped without a scratch. Signal Corps.


53 posted on 10/22/2006 4:19:14 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: photodawg

26,000 causulties, with 6700 dead, not 8600

round numbers... :)


54 posted on 10/22/2006 4:20:19 PM PDT by RaceBannon (Innocent until proven guilty: The Pendleton 8)
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To: Victoria Delsoul

I would like to hear this moron explain the Black BRITISH history of soldiers fighting for Britain in WWII


55 posted on 10/22/2006 4:24:39 PM PDT by RaceBannon (Innocent until proven guilty: The Pendleton 8)
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To: RaceBannon

Good point.


56 posted on 10/22/2006 4:26:27 PM PDT by Victoria Delsoul
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To: Cicero
The more I hear about this movie, the less I am inclined to go see it.

The movie is good. I saw it Friday. You should see it too. Special Effects were incredible and did not seem like CGI effects even though they had to be there.

57 posted on 10/22/2006 4:28:21 PM PDT by PJ-Comix (Join the DUmmie FUnnies PING List for the FUNNIEST Blog on the Web)
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To: Siena Dreaming
His last boxing movie was horrible.

DEPRESSING is the word.

58 posted on 10/22/2006 4:29:07 PM PDT by PJ-Comix (Join the DUmmie FUnnies PING List for the FUNNIEST Blog on the Web)
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To: Skywalk

Okinawa was a much deeper batle than Iwo Jima, ANYONE there would be in combat soon enough!

Iwo Jima was smaller than Manhattan


59 posted on 10/22/2006 4:31:06 PM PDT by RaceBannon (Innocent until proven guilty: The Pendleton 8)
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To: AnAmericanMother

Glad he made it.
Hey,I was in a jeep going out to Khe Sahn,my
Sgt driving,me taking pics and he ran off the
road down a hill into a rice paddy,my M-16 flying
into the water.

Amazing how little the difference between living
and dieing can be in war or anywhere


60 posted on 10/22/2006 4:32:15 PM PDT by 31M20RedDevil ( Wish we had a Ronald Reagan today (deep sigh))
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To: EveningStar

Not only that but the movie lacks gays, muslims, and puerto ricans.


61 posted on 10/22/2006 4:37:28 PM PDT by SmoothTalker
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To: EveningStar

Where were all the white people in "Barbershop?"


62 posted on 10/22/2006 4:38:49 PM PDT by toddlintown (Six bullets and Lennon goes down. Yet not one hit Yoko. Discuss.)
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To: RaceBannon

There will be a two hour History Channel special on the Iwo Jima Flag raisers tonight followed by an hour show about the Iwo Jima battle in general. I plan to watch it. I highly recommend "Flags Of Our Fathers." I didn't see the plight of Ira Hayes as being a PC attack on Whites. Knowing something of his story I think it was fairly accurate. Actually the guy who came off bad was Rene Gagnon.


63 posted on 10/22/2006 4:39:27 PM PDT by PJ-Comix (Join the DUmmie FUnnies PING List for the FUNNIEST Blog on the Web)
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To: EveningStar

Come on, everybody knows that WWII was won by the Tuskegee Airmen, the Navajo code talkers, and a bunch of white guys on the fringes. What world are you living in, anyway? ;)


64 posted on 10/22/2006 4:40:05 PM PDT by KellyAdmirer
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To: PJ-Comix
Depressing, yes.

And horrible...I use that word because of the PC euthanasia message. Ugh.

65 posted on 10/22/2006 4:40:57 PM PDT by Siena Dreaming
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To: EveningStar

Probably no BAMs had starring roles either.

Semper Fi,


66 posted on 10/22/2006 4:49:49 PM PDT by 2nd Bn, 11th Mar (The "P" in Democrat stands for patriotism.)
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To: PJ-Comix

From what I read, The Rene Gagnon part was most likely the most accurate! :)


67 posted on 10/22/2006 4:51:50 PM PDT by RaceBannon (Innocent until proven guilty: The Pendleton 8)
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To: EveningStar
I just saw the film this afternoon, and I thought it was okay. The only small problem was that I thought it focused just a little bit too much on Ira and not enough on the three other flag- planting soldiers who died at Iwo Jima. For instance, "Iggy" Ignatowski was only actually seen in a few of the flashback scenes, and even then, he was portrayed as just a stereotypical dumb comic relief character up until his death.
68 posted on 10/22/2006 4:55:29 PM PDT by Chewie84
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To: norton

Historical precedent. Scott's novel, Ivanhoe.


69 posted on 10/22/2006 4:57:18 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: DownInFlames

As one who was on a Carrier off Iwo Jima..you are so
right...Blacks were not that involved because of the
separaton of Units,etc. Most people read this headline
and think that racism is the reason....so many that
don't know their a$$ about History, and that includes
WWll, and those that consider themselves experts....
Clint and his advisors would do well to ignore these
type of innuendos..let the bastards hang in the wind
before they get the rope cut...Jake


70 posted on 10/22/2006 5:02:27 PM PDT by sanjacjake
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To: sanjacjake; cardinal4

Watching WW2 unfold on the History Channel, I saw a lot of black soldiers manning "The Red Ball Express," running convoys of gasoline, ammo and chow up to the front. I'd say they did their part.


71 posted on 10/22/2006 5:56:50 PM PDT by Ax (Go Tigers!!! American League Champions. Not off to a spectacular start.)
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To: Clemenza
Just saw the movie, and it showed only one scene with Black Americans.

Watched with my former WWII Marine Dad. He explained that Marines were late to integrate, and that the Army had a lot of blacks. As he recalled, many blacks were cooks, and not in combat role at time of Iwo.

I am also a former Marine, and just came back from my son's graduation from boot camp at MCRD San Diego.

One thing struck me as I watched over 500 new Marines last Friday was the clear absence of Black Americans in numbers similar to my time during Vietnam. Back then I estimate that Black marines were about equal to their proportion in the general population. Friday I was actually shocked at the absence of Blacks from the ranks. My estimate was there were less than 20 out of 576.

Anyone else have similar observations, or a possible explanation as to what might be going on?

72 posted on 10/22/2006 6:21:12 PM PDT by CT (tHE)
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To: CT
As he recalled, many blacks were cooks, and not in combat role at time of Iwo. Having now seen the original post more clearly, I stand corrected on the absence of Blacks at Iwo. I will also tell my dad, who was in the airwing and not on ground.
73 posted on 10/22/2006 6:24:12 PM PDT by CT (tHE)
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To: EveningStar

I would be curious how many black marines there were in WW-II. I suspect none and that is the reason they are not in the film.


74 posted on 10/22/2006 6:28:29 PM PDT by Snoopers-868th
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To: CT
I live in a large urban area, and have noticed A LOT of Hispanics in the junior ROTC clubs at the local high schools, but not as many blacks (relative to the population at large).

I believe that black Americans remain present in large numbers in the Army and Navy. It would be interesting to see if their numbers have dropped or grown over the past 15 years.

75 posted on 10/22/2006 6:30:49 PM PDT by Clemenza (I have such a raging clue!)
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To: Clemenza
No blacks in the USMC untill 1949, war was over.
76 posted on 10/22/2006 6:59:52 PM PDT by Plains Drifter (America First, Last, and Always!!!)
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To: 31M20RedDevil
Ya don't even have to be in a war, you can be run over by a city bus.

My hubby was in the pipeline when the war ended, so he never went, but his driver managed to roll their jeep down a hill at Fort Drum NY during summer camp . . . landed upright and both of them were thrown clear. The jeep wasn't even injured, neither were they.

Took about 25 guys to drag it up out of the woods though.

77 posted on 10/22/2006 7:09:20 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: KellyAdmirer
My dad was never fond of the Tuskegee Airmen, because they mistakenly bombed and strafed his unit's position in Italy.

But you can't talk about that . . .

78 posted on 10/22/2006 7:10:47 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: photodawg

Post #32 totally nailed it


79 posted on 10/22/2006 7:12:21 PM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist (Why can't Republicans stand up to Democrats like they do to terrorists?)
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To: photodawg

Revisionist history has race quotas.

Remember what they tried to do to the 9/11 flag raising.

So much for the colorblind society.


80 posted on 10/22/2006 7:20:10 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: AnAmericanMother
Not diminishing your dad's opinion...but that kind of thing was not unique to the Tuskegee folks. My grandfather's unit once got hit by both airforces....on March 3rd, 1945...his birthday no less. He was Divisional Cav, so his unit was often forward of the front line trace, so all kinds of things like that happened. But, back to to the Tuskegee, fact is, I never believed they were some "wonder outfit". Two sad facts. One, the best German units faced 8th AF along the Channel and Northern France, once D-Day occurred, the quality of the German AF fell off significantly, because their fighter pilots flew till they died, they didn't rotate their pilots at all. This had obvious effects.

Those facing the 15th in Italy rarely had the newest and best equipment, or were minor axis airforces (Like Romania or Croatia, for example.)These air forces, while rather enthusiastic in fighting the Red Army, saw the western allies differently, and it was rather daunting for even the Luftwaffe to approach the "combat boxes" of the B-17s/24s from the 12 O'Clock high position (head on, in a slight dive, so as to shoot up the cockpit and nose). Closing speeds were well, high, and it took nerves of steel to attempt this, and the other German allied AFs did simply didn't have the equipment or training to attempt this.

Also, everything that I have read about to the Tuskegee says they had no respect for the Germans and their allies. But, I think if they had faced the likes of JG 26 or 54, they might have had a rude shock. Just ask guys from 4th or 56th Fighter Group. They lost bombers..but they gave better than they got. I think if the Tuskegee had been on the Channel front, they would have had to learn fast, or die.

81 posted on 10/22/2006 7:29:36 PM PDT by Braak (The US Military, the real arms inspectors!)
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To: 31M20RedDevil

I gotta admit that there were tensions. I was an 11E40 and 11B40 Red Devil with 1/77 Armor and 1/61 Inf of the 1st Bde 5th mech at Camp Carrol. I know the AO's around FSB A4 and C2 real well. We had pretty good leadership and I think that kept much of the racial jive to a relative minimum. Nothing like the mess in the Americal.


82 posted on 10/22/2006 7:30:24 PM PDT by DMZFrank
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To: AnAmericanMother

My uncle was on Iwo once the runway was secure to help bring in the airplanes. I said something like "well that was lucky" and he said only the runway was secure, they were still shooting at him and th3e airplanes from off in the jungle.


83 posted on 10/22/2006 7:36:37 PM PDT by geopyg (If the carrot doesn't work, use the stick. Don't wish for peace, pray for Victory.)
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To: EveningStar
almost 900 African-American troops took part in the battle of Iwo Jima

About three percent of the total.

84 posted on 10/22/2006 8:32:15 PM PDT by ArmstedFragg
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To: fso301

The Treasury actually lent out all it's silver to The Manhattan Project.

That's a rather sweeping statement, do you have a source for it?


85 posted on 10/22/2006 8:36:26 PM PDT by sgtyork (Prove to us that you can enforce the borders first.)
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To: ArmstedFragg

Well... three percent of the first wave. Most of the support troops came ashore in later waves. When Eastwood does the film on ammo-haulers in the second world war, I'm sure he'll use a politically correct cast.


86 posted on 10/22/2006 8:42:58 PM PDT by ArmstedFragg
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To: EveningStar
To be honest with you. I have seen a lot of war programs on the History and various other channels, and I sure don't remember seeing too many people of color in those old films. I am sure what Clint was doing was giving his honest portrayal of what took place. What's next? Hey Clint I don't remember seeing any flamboyant gays on the battle field.
87 posted on 10/22/2006 8:44:25 PM PDT by hodaka
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To: EveningStar; Petronski

The military forces were segregated, even blood and plasma products were segregated according to race in WW2. The historical facts about black people's second class status would easily explain why there aren't any in this movie. I visited just about every major WW2 museum in Normandy and hardly saw ANY. This author didn't do his research. Sounds to me like this author doesn't have a clue and is just being contrarian and trying to start a fight, stir up racists,etc.


88 posted on 10/22/2006 9:56:35 PM PDT by cyborg (No I don't miss the single life at all.)
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To: EveningStar
Certainly it wouldn't have hurt to throw in a few black extras (still can with today's technology) but the black contribution to Iwo Jima was quite small.

At Iwo Jima, the 8th Marine Ammunition Company and the 33d, 34th, and 36th Marine Depot Companies served as part of the shore party of the V Amphibious Corps. Elements of the ammunition company and the 36th Depot Company landed on D-Day, 19 February 1945, and within three days all the units were ashore, braving Japanese fire as they struggled in the volcanic sand to unload and stockpile ammunition and other supplies, and move the car go inland. Eleven black enlisted Marines and one of the white officers were wounded, two of the enlisted men fatally.

Concern over this sort of thing from the ruling elite betrays a nervousness about the cohesion of modern mutlticultural America.

89 posted on 10/22/2006 10:29:23 PM PDT by jordan8
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To: cyborg; Petronski

I think you're exactly right, Cyborg. Most people here are aware that desegregation of the military did not begin until after WWII.


90 posted on 10/22/2006 10:29:51 PM PDT by EveningStar
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To: toddlintown

Where were all the white people in Barbershop?
Probably hiding so that didn't have to be in that dumb excuse for a comedy!


91 posted on 10/22/2006 10:40:42 PM PDT by Riverman94610
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To: Clemenza

Hispanics dominate Jr. ROTC in most high schools in my district.Blacks are a distant second with a few Asians and almost no white kids.
Of course,there are almost NO white kids IN my district!


92 posted on 10/22/2006 10:43:59 PM PDT by Riverman94610
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To: DMZFrank

Hey there, I spent quite a bit of time at C-2,we
were at the top of the hill with all the antennas.

I was there 70-71,spent most of my time at Khe Sahn
on that hill overlooking the air-strip.It was always
a hoot rideing from QT to KS,we`d always take fire
at that infamous Rockpile.Once down in the ditch and
realizing there was a tanker filled with JP 4 50` away.
The guy manning the quad 50 scared to return fire.

It was always better out in the field IMO,back in base
was where tensions were high.

One night about 100` from me a Maj.was shot when he
tried to arrest coupla bros smokeing weed.

We were in the mess hall one day at noon,the bros were
loud,and a bunch of mercenarys came in to eat.That was
the only time I saw mercs while I was there,they told
them loudly to shut up,they wanted to eat in peace and
it got quiet as a Methodist church.They were a tough
looking bunch long hair,weapons all over themselves.

Not long after this 2 bros fragged themselves trying
to boobytrap a hooch door.

It was better out in the field


93 posted on 10/23/2006 4:36:57 AM PDT by 31M20RedDevil ( Wish we had a Ronald Reagan today (deep sigh))
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To: CAWats
If you do a search on the internet for WWII deaths and try some google variations, you can find scans of the official US death tallys for all of WWII. They even have deaths month-by-month and by race, etc.

I'd dug it up because I was AF and he was Marine, and he was telling me that the Marines lost more men at IWO than the AAF lost over Europe....I found the data and it looked like at the height of the Air War over Europe, the AAF was losing more flight crews per month than all of IWO deaths.

94 posted on 10/23/2006 4:42:12 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: Braak
Oh, that doesn't diminish dad's opinion at all. Friendly fire happens.

But with dad, it was personal with that particular unit. He also didn't like Mark Clark much . . . because he drowned some of his buddies in the Rapido river . . .

My dad can hold a grudge like nobody I've ever seen. When he got back from the war, Muse's, a local men's store, refused to sell him a suit because wool was still rationed and they were "saving their suits for their regular customers." "Then I," said dad, "will NEVER be a regular customer!" He kept his word, he never darkened their door - my sister bought him a tie from Muse's, he didn't return it, he had MOM return it. Muse's went out of business some time in the late 80s, and dad rejoiced, he outlasted 'em.

95 posted on 10/23/2006 6:14:13 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: sgtyork
That's a rather sweeping statement, do you have a source for it?

the magnets needed so much copper for windings that the Army had to borrow almost 15,000 tons of silver bullion from the United States Treasury to fabricate into strips and wind on to coils as a substitute for copper. Treasury silver was also used to manufacture the busbars that ran around the top of the racetracks.

http://www.mbe.doe.gov/me70/manhattan/y-12_construction.htm

96 posted on 10/23/2006 6:43:39 AM PDT by fso301
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To: Ax


deiniely right. Jake


97 posted on 10/23/2006 8:08:10 AM PDT by sanjacjake
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To: AnAmericanMother

I care for a lot of war veterans as a nuse aide and many do hold grudges. I suppose it's a part of the toughness of being sent to war at a young age. I always give them extra special attention because I sometimes wonder if the disease process is spurred on by memories, trauma,etc. FWIW, many of the vets are also sweethears and know how to treat a lady hehehe.


98 posted on 10/23/2006 8:11:11 AM PDT by cyborg (No I don't miss the single life at all.)
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To: cyborg

I think it gives them the opportunity to cherish old memories . . . dad's as nice as they come, but he does have a limit beyond which he can't be pushed.


99 posted on 10/23/2006 8:13:22 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: EveningStar; Petronski

It's all part of an agenda. Anyone who knows history would understand this film. Now a person can be bitter about it OR OR OR they can say thank you. I can't say enough about my experiences in caring for war veterans. They gave the very best years of their lives and didn't complain!


100 posted on 10/23/2006 8:13:50 AM PDT by cyborg (No I don't miss the single life at all.)
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