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A Return to Triangulation (libertarion vs social right)
National Review Online ^ | 10/25/06 | David Boaz & David Kirby

Posted on 10/25/2006 11:10:46 AM PDT by Blackirish

As the Republican base fragments and Christian conservatives consider a “fast” from politics, the polling data point to a mid-term Republican thumping. Less than two weeks from now, Republicans will begin their post-mortem soul searching. And as the corpses of their House and Senate majorities grow cold, so should Karl Rove’s 2006 campaign strategy.

(Excerpt) Read more at article.nationalreview.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: besthijack; bestthread; blackirish; braad; creation; darwin; darwincentral; darwinhomebase; doublehijacked; evolution; frhero; frlegend; hero; hijack; hijacked; hijackedthread; legend; libertian; minifreepathon; monthlydonorthon; rehijacked; religion; science; socialright; threadjacked; threadjacking
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To: Liberal Classic
The GOP must be the party of reason and science.

It's more basic than that. Whoever believes the philosophy of history known as evolution (in the wide sense) deserves an exclusive hearing by law in public schools belongs to a party that does not accept the authority of the Consitution. That, IMO, means liberal democrats who do not accept the meaning an intent of the text, but twist it to fit their own, squishy, mealy-mouthed, agenda.

1,061 posted on 10/27/2006 12:45:34 PM PDT by Fester Chugabrew
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To: Liberal Classic
The people that I am talking about are these people who voted on an FR poll. By the looks of it, fully one third of us are pro-science. I'm not talking about some fringe minority movement or the one percenters. The Republican party cannot win elections without the support of pro-science people like me.

Don't go too far out on that limb. I am among the one-third who voted with you on that poll, and I am indeed pro-science, but you do not speak for me. There are rational, reasonable people who accept evolution, and rational, reasonable people who accept creationism. But there are some in both camps who are neither rational nor reasonable. Do not fall into the trap of portraying Darwinism as some sort of modern Prometheus, a courageous champion bringing the light of knowledge to the ignorant masses. There are any number of evolutionists who accept evolution not because they find the evidence for it convincing, but because they are driven mad by the notion that someone, somewhere might be quietly believing in God. This is obvious from what they choose to fight about.

I have seen some terrible, unsupportable arguments brought by creationists on some FR threads... but I have also seen a ridiculous number of straw-man, false dilemma, appeal to authority and bandwagon fallacies used by the militant evolutionists. Crevo threads are remarkable for the dishonesty and irrationality exhibited on both sides.

P.S., there is no broad-based conservative war on science. There is a sizeable culture war against Judeo-Christian religion, though.

1,062 posted on 10/27/2006 12:46:35 PM PDT by Sloth (Never bring a megaphone to a bulldozer fight.)
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To: jwalsh07
Oh and one other thing, I am Catholic and to be Catholic one must, of necessity, be a creationist

Complete and utter bullcrap. Priests teach evolution and priests teach the true origins of some biblical tales. Ever hear of the Enuma Elish.

1,063 posted on 10/27/2006 12:50:38 PM PDT by satchmodog9 (Most people stand on the tracks and never even hear the train coming)
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To: wyattearp
Do you not recognize tongue in cheek when you see it?
1,064 posted on 10/27/2006 12:51:55 PM PDT by Jim Robinson
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To: metmom

Who said we were teaming up with the ACLU? Most of us despise those rat bastards.


1,065 posted on 10/27/2006 12:52:25 PM PDT by satchmodog9 (Most people stand on the tracks and never even hear the train coming)
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To: AndrewC

Not all evos think Dawkins is correct. He is like Pat Robertson to a lot of us. He is an opinion and I think, an odious one at that.


1,066 posted on 10/27/2006 12:55:07 PM PDT by satchmodog9 (Most people stand on the tracks and never even hear the train coming)
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To: satchmodog9
Complete and utter bullcrap.

LOL, You will of course point me to the section of the Catholic Catechism which teaches that God did NOT create the heavens and earth.

Priests teach evolution and priests teach the true origins of some biblical tales.

Can you translate this sentence into English?

Ever hear of the Enuma Elish.

Sure, have you ever heard of Daffy Duck?

1,067 posted on 10/27/2006 12:56:20 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: antiRepublicrat
"...religion in religion class, etc."

Amen to that.

1,068 posted on 10/27/2006 12:56:37 PM PDT by Jim Robinson
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To: wyattearp
Or, would you rather that all scientists, and all who have an interest in science be stripped naked in the middle of the street, religious fanatics be given a pile of rocks, with you proudly proclaiming "there be witches"? You do realize that has been done before, right?


1,069 posted on 10/27/2006 12:59:01 PM PDT by Sam's Army (Imagine a world without car commercials.)
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To: Sloth

We don't have to accept each others views on evolution, but we should respect the fact that we are all conservatives. Just because someone is an atheist or believes in evolution, it doesn't take away from the fact that they are conservative. Some here have equated Christianity with conservatism. That is wrong. Christians are a segment of conservatism, just like evangelicals are a segment of Christianity.


1,070 posted on 10/27/2006 1:01:44 PM PDT by satchmodog9 (Most people stand on the tracks and never even hear the train coming)
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To: jwalsh07
Go to a Catholic college and take a few courses on religious history. I studied religion quite extensively at DePaul before it turned into a leftist hell hole. You will find learned Catholic priests who tell how the Jews lifted some of their tales from Phoenician and other creation myths. Your Daffy Duck comment plays into your fear and ignorance of truth. Do your homework and don't dismiss things with the wave of a hand. It is the highest form of ignorance. We are done talking.
1,071 posted on 10/27/2006 1:10:41 PM PDT by satchmodog9 (Most people stand on the tracks and never even hear the train coming)
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To: satchmodog9
We don't have to accept each others views on evolution, but we should respect the fact that we are all conservatives. Just because someone is an atheist or believes in evolution, it doesn't take away from the fact that they are conservative. Some here have equated Christianity with conservatism. That is wrong.

Absolutely true. And some have equated acceptance of creation/fundamentalism with being stupid. (*cough* "I think a lot of people in conservative media pander to the dullards... They all seem to [sic] intelligent to be cretards or fundies." *cough*). That isn't conducive to or reflective of "respect," in my opinion.

1,072 posted on 10/27/2006 1:11:27 PM PDT by Sloth (Never bring a megaphone to a bulldozer fight.)
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To: Jim Robinson
Do you not recognize tongue in cheek when you see it?

That's not what I saw, Jim. Still don't see it, especially taking into account everything else that you have said over the last two days. Are you apologizing?

1,073 posted on 10/27/2006 1:14:14 PM PDT by wyattearp (Study! Study! Study! Or BONK, BONK, on the head!)
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To: Blackirish; metmom; Doctor Stochastic
Republicans should reembrace the libertarian principles of the party. They should return to Reagan’s fiscal conservatism and Goldwater’s social tolerance.

Sounds about right to me. Thanks for the intriguing post, Blackirish!

1,074 posted on 10/27/2006 1:15:59 PM PDT by betty boop (Beautiful are the things we see...Much the most beautiful those we do not comprehend. -- N. Steensen)
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To: wyattearp

Briefly, no.


1,075 posted on 10/27/2006 1:19:29 PM PDT by Jim Robinson
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To: Blackirish; nopardons; Jim Robinson
Oh boy...I thought this was going to be a typical 60 post thread from NRO...never thought it was gonna go like this.

It has become a wild ride that's for sure. Look at it this way......
You, my FRiend, have now become a part of FReeper History. LOL
This thread might just become a rival to the famous "undead thread".

In fact, I submit that you should contact Jim or the mods and ask to have the title of your thread changed. Maybe something like the Great Evolution Thread or something like that. I'll leave that up to you.

Just think of it........
Blackirish: The FReeper who posted an article from NRO and kicked off the Great Evolution Debate!

You'll be both cheered and reviled. Like it or not you're now a hero or villain depending on the point of view.
You are now a legend of all FReeperdom!

Please carry your elevated status in accordance with the dignity proper to your newly found fame here at FR.
J

1,076 posted on 10/27/2006 1:27:38 PM PDT by Fiddlstix (Warning! This Is A Subliminal Tagline! Read it at your own risk!(Presented by TagLines R US))
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To: ahayes
Then why are you acting as if his particular viewpoint is the only possible one science-minded people could accept?

I never said it was the only one possible. I said you could not accept his particular viewpoint and hold the Pope's viewpoint. Do you?

1,077 posted on 10/27/2006 1:33:06 PM PDT by AndrewC
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To: satchmodog9
Not all evos think Dawkins is correct. He is like Pat Robertson to a lot of us. He is an opinion and I think, an odious one at that.

But all creationists(and IDer's) are Jack Chick?

1,078 posted on 10/27/2006 1:35:42 PM PDT by AndrewC
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To: satchmodog9
Who said we were teaming up with the ACLU? Most of us despise those rat bastards.

You wouldn't know it based on the reactions of most of the evos over the efforts to keep creation out of the schools. Somehow it gets blown off with trite phrases, *like even a stopped clock is right twice a day* (concerning the ACLU and lawsuits to keep the slightest questioning of the ToE out of the picture).

As for me, if I hear of the ACLU defending something that SOUNDS good, I take a really good hard look at what I thought on the matter and what it is that they're really trying to accomplish; because to say that I don't trust them is the understatement of my life.

I realise that to many evos, according to them, it's about *keeping science pure* but if it involves the ACLU and they're supporting it, it's not going to come across as conservative, not matter how you look at it and what you say in its defense because it's not about science to the ACLU.

1,079 posted on 10/27/2006 1:54:48 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Sam's Army

ROTFLOL!


1,080 posted on 10/27/2006 1:57:14 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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