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A Return to Triangulation (libertarion vs social right)
National Review Online ^ | 10/25/06 | David Boaz & David Kirby

Posted on 10/25/2006 11:10:46 AM PDT by Blackirish

As the Republican base fragments and Christian conservatives consider a “fast” from politics, the polling data point to a mid-term Republican thumping. Less than two weeks from now, Republicans will begin their post-mortem soul searching. And as the corpses of their House and Senate majorities grow cold, so should Karl Rove’s 2006 campaign strategy.

(Excerpt) Read more at article.nationalreview.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: besthijack; bestthread; blackirish; braad; creation; darwin; darwincentral; darwinhomebase; doublehijacked; evolution; frhero; frlegend; hero; hijack; hijacked; hijackedthread; legend; libertian; minifreepathon; monthlydonorthon; rehijacked; religion; science; socialright; threadjacked; threadjacking
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To: metmom
Religious folks, and I include my self among them though I am undoubtedly a sinner trying to do better :-}, are not anti science but they do have a trust problem with some scientists.

The Missouri constitutional amendment is a case in point. Those steeped in scientism portray that amendment to us rubes as "stem cell research" implying that those opposed to the amendment are anti science and bad Christians because we want to see Michael Fox suffer. Both are nonsense.

What the amendment actually does is enshrine cloning in the the Missouri Constitution and at the same time takes a nice shot at our republican form of government in that it forbids legislators in Missouri from directing what funds can be spent where.

RR said trust but verify. I say that anytime you are condescended to in the manner that the followers of scientism are condescending to the voters of Missouri there is no reason to trust that group of people ever again. No need to verify that at all.

251 posted on 10/25/2006 8:51:09 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: Jim Robinson
And some of you are absolutely worthless to the cause of conservatism.

Counterproductive, even ...

252 posted on 10/25/2006 8:53:23 PM PDT by 68 grunt (3/1 India, 3rd, 68-69, 0311)
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To: CWOJackson
Well...Romney...Rudy..Newt are...McCaine all polling very well.

The darlings of the social right...Allen...Brownback ..are polling SINGLE digits.
253 posted on 10/25/2006 8:53:28 PM PDT by Blackirish
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To: CWOJackson
Well...Romney...Rudy..Newt are...McCaine all polling very well.

The darlings of the social right...Allen...Brownback ..are polling SINGLE digits.
254 posted on 10/25/2006 8:53:53 PM PDT by Blackirish
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To: Jim Robinson

LOL! IATZ.


255 posted on 10/25/2006 8:54:02 PM PDT by darkangel82 (Higher visibility leads to greater zottability.)
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To: Blackirish

And which Libertarian/libertarian candidate is polling anywhere above 2%?


256 posted on 10/25/2006 8:54:50 PM PDT by CWOJackson
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To: metmom
Why chase people off this site by calling them homosexual ACLU backers supporting the marxist lie of evolution?

The message is "we don't need you" and "get lost".

This is really, really stupid. The Republicans need every vote they can get. They need my vote and your vote.

Most people want creation taught in schools...

If people would push for theology and ethics classes in the public schools, an appropriate venue for the topic of biblical creation, instead of trying to sneak creationism in the backdoor of biology class, I think you'd see much stronger support.

257 posted on 10/25/2006 8:55:29 PM PDT by Liberal Classic (No better friend, no worse enemy. Semper Fi.)
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To: Blackirish

Badnarik---> 0.03% in 2004 just slightly under Nader's 0.04%

In the states your percentages are worse, but I guess compared to nothing you're doing fine.






258 posted on 10/25/2006 8:55:32 PM PDT by eleni121 ("Show me just what Mohammed brought:: evil and inhumanity")
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To: DaveLoneRanger
Interesting conversations going on here. I guess if I got involved, the thread would just spontaneously combust, huh?

You think too highly of yourself. It does prove the last of the points that I made to you back in August, however. The only thing that I had wrong was that it was not the mods, but the owner.

259 posted on 10/25/2006 8:56:38 PM PDT by wyattearp (Study! Study! Study! Or BONK, BONK, on the head!)
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To: CWOJackson
Your being intellectually dishonest....lame dodge.
260 posted on 10/25/2006 8:57:09 PM PDT by Blackirish
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To: CWOJackson

I saw an LP candidate in the Maryland Senate debate tonight. His main issues were immediate witdrawal from Iraq, single payer health care for all and more access to abortion. I was astounded.


261 posted on 10/25/2006 8:57:33 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: HKMk23
I've had GREAT discussions in my lifetime with others whos views were diametrically opposed to my own on many differing topics. Tone, demeanor, manners, and mutual respect made ALL the difference. So, I submit to you that it is not "anti-science" or "pro-science" Conservatives who are sullying FR, and, by extension, the whole Conservative movement; it is anti-social, rude, impertinent, foul-mouthed, posters who lack manners, respect and self-control who are sullying FR, and, by extension, the whole Conservative movement.

I can get behind that 100%.

Bad posters drive away good posters.

262 posted on 10/25/2006 8:57:38 PM PDT by Liberal Classic (No better friend, no worse enemy. Semper Fi.)
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To: HKMk23

Yup. you pegged it. And that's why I avoid those threads like the plague.


263 posted on 10/25/2006 8:57:39 PM PDT by Jim Robinson
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To: wyattearp

There is really something sad about seeing Wyatt Earp and the Lone Ranger taking shots at each other.


264 posted on 10/25/2006 8:57:44 PM PDT by CWOJackson
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past

BTTT.

The only reason, for instance, that porn and sodomy are legal, is because of nanny state judicial activism. Let individual communities decide for themselves - state or even more local. Would liber(al)tarians like this? No - that want such crap forced down everyone's throat by the JBThuggery of big government.

And they have the gall to label me and others like me as nanny staters.

I am in favor of cutting all - state and fedgov - spending by 50%, for a start. A lot of social problems will wither on the vine once the teat dries up.


265 posted on 10/25/2006 8:57:48 PM PDT by little jeremiah
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To: Blackirish
Leave nanny statism to the dims.

Correct. Don't nominate a big government fop like Giuliani in 2008!

266 posted on 10/25/2006 8:58:33 PM PDT by Clemenza (I have such a raging clue!)
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To: DaveLoneRanger

Creationists are frequently accused of being anti-science...

Because some of them think the universe and the earth are 6000 years old. One must toss out a lot of science, and all that that science implies and infers, to take such a ridiculously irrational position.

267 posted on 10/25/2006 8:58:37 PM PDT by ml1954 (ID = Case closed....no further inquiry allowed...now move along.)
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To: Blackirish
Lame dodge...sparky, you're to one who brought up polling. Asking where your LP/lp candidates are showing up on the polls may be embarrassing but germane.
268 posted on 10/25/2006 8:59:18 PM PDT by CWOJackson
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To: Ichneumon

Free enterprise dictates that you go out and start your own thing.

Just do it.


269 posted on 10/25/2006 8:59:27 PM PDT by eleni121 ("Show me just what Mohammed brought:: evil and inhumanity")
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To: Dominic Harr; Godebert
Well, as I said, I'm a social liberal, political conservative.... I'm pro-gay marriage.

You are just a liberal period. There is nothing politically conservative (or biological) about homosexuality and establishing it into the secular law.

270 posted on 10/25/2006 8:59:57 PM PDT by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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To: metmom

Another great post!


271 posted on 10/25/2006 9:00:06 PM PDT by Jim Robinson
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To: Liberal Classic

I said that I'd heard this to be the case, disclosed my source, said if it was untrue, I'd be more than happy to admit the error. I did not put it forth as unassailable fact. What was the main thrust of the argument? That there is a lot scientists still don't know. Is that main point true? Yes. Were the examples listed accurate? I cannot confirm them, so I'll withdraw them as examples, but maintain my original point.

Let's try to keep the personal quibbles off of this thread, though.


272 posted on 10/25/2006 9:01:00 PM PDT by DaveLoneRanger (Lord, help me to be the Christian conservative that liberals fear I am.)
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To: GourmetDan
Both parties are involved in pushing America into hell, both financially and socially. It's only a matter of how fast. Repubs just go a little slower than Dems.

"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected." - GK Chesterton

273 posted on 10/25/2006 9:01:01 PM PDT by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: Blackirish
"Well...Romney...Rudy..Newt are...McCaine all polling very well.

The darlings of the social right...Allen...Brownback ..are polling SINGLE digits."

All that you posted there are Republicans (several are of the RINO type), where are the Libertarians you speak of?
274 posted on 10/25/2006 9:01:18 PM PDT by Beagle8U (Demonrats want the Gays out of Congress.....stand back and let them purge their base.)
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To: Jim Robinson
the government forcing the theory of evolution and other socialist dogma

Your statement implies that the theory of evortion is "socialist dogma". That is an incorrect statement. The theory of evolution has no inherent political bias.
275 posted on 10/25/2006 9:01:22 PM PDT by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: Dimensio

LOL. Right.


276 posted on 10/25/2006 9:02:12 PM PDT by Jim Robinson
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To: DaveLoneRanger

Dude, you opened your mouth without engaging your brain. Take some science classes, for Pete's sake.


277 posted on 10/25/2006 9:02:53 PM PDT by Liberal Classic (No better friend, no worse enemy. Semper Fi.)
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To: metmom

I want the evolutionists off of educational welfare. They are not entitled to some kind of affirmative action in the classroom...

And I am an athiest saying this... I am tired of these people throwing sh*t on the Christians. The Christians pay the vast majority of taxes in this country...


278 posted on 10/25/2006 9:03:39 PM PDT by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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To: VadeRetro
... On FR, the following topics are controversial: ...

Hey, listen! Any subject is controversial if we allow it. There are people here solely to cause division. Any topic. Any wedge they can drive. Any negativity they can spread.

Intelligent debate is what we want. Intolerant argument is what these counter-productive elements give us.

279 posted on 10/25/2006 9:03:53 PM PDT by 68 grunt (3/1 India, 3rd, 68-69, 0311)
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To: Jim Robinson
What part of "I have no problem with science" did you not understand? I do, however, have a great problem with the Godless Marxist ACLU influenced big government forcing evolution theory

Evolution *is* science. It is foundational to our modern understanding to biology. Students are "forced" to learn evolution life science class for the same reason students are "forced" to algebra in math class.

280 posted on 10/25/2006 9:04:21 PM PDT by Liberal Classic (No better friend, no worse enemy. Semper Fi.)
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To: DaveLoneRanger
I guess if I got involved, the thread would just spontaneously combust, huh?

I dub thee..."Captain Napalm" !

Cheers!

281 posted on 10/25/2006 9:04:59 PM PDT by grey_whiskers
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To: eleni121

Evos have their own site they are constantly sending people to and it's Darwin Central. A very interesting place where all the foibles of FR don't exist or are not tolerated. They can go there if they don't like the way FR is run, then they'd havbe no complaints.


282 posted on 10/25/2006 9:05:56 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Mr. Jeeves

I have not heard of social conservatives abandoning Bush, and being a social conservative, I should have gotten the memo.


283 posted on 10/25/2006 9:05:58 PM PDT by Richard Kimball (The most important thing is sincerity. Once you can fake that, everything else is easy.)
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To: metmom
A contingent but not the mainstream. I also don't see what some of that even has to do with the ToE and one's acceptance of it or being pro or anti science. SOme of it's just sheer whackiness. But call a spade a spade.

That's rather laughable. I don't recall you ever calling "a spade a spade." When have you ever told any of these nutjobs that they are not only damaging conservatism, but also Christianity by their lunatic ramblings, Moonie affiliations, or anything else for that matter?

Don't label the whole group based on the actions of a few who are either not really part of the group...

Hold that thought. The person who deploys the "creation ping list" is the biggest recent distributor of Moonie propaganda on FR. And you have said - nothing. Ok, back to our regularly scheduled paragraph...

...or could just plain be trolls coming in from DU on "suicide runs" just to stir things up and make real Christians and creationists look bad.

Stand up to them. Once. Tell them what you think of their actions. Once. Tell them that they are wrong. Once. But you wont, because you agree with them on the subject of evolution, so you are willing to let them do or say anything, as long as they say that one thing that you agree with. That speaks of hypocricy.

284 posted on 10/25/2006 9:06:55 PM PDT by wyattearp (Study! Study! Study! Or BONK, BONK, on the head!)
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To: RadioAstronomer

Just clicked on your name, can't believe I didn't get the baby blue page of death!


285 posted on 10/25/2006 9:06:58 PM PDT by stands2reason (Setec Astronomy)
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To: eleni121
It is, in fact, Creationists and ID adherents who are the true scientists here...and Darwinoid evolutionists who cannot bear the scrutiny of their flimsy work.

You make this claim, yet when asked to support your previous claim that "over 500 doctoral dissertations" were written on the subject of Piltdown Man, you refused to subject your claim to scrutiny. It would appear that you have established a double standard.
286 posted on 10/25/2006 9:07:09 PM PDT by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: jwalsh07
Don't lose any sleep over it, there aren't that many folks who care what revolves around Saturn.

As I posted before, the problem is not the "geo"-centrists, it's all the "ego"-centrists.

That, and the problem orbiting not Saturn, but Uranus ;-)

Cheers!

287 posted on 10/25/2006 9:08:04 PM PDT by grey_whiskers
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To: metmom

I've heard of it. I wonder if creationists are as welcome there as they are here...mmm.


288 posted on 10/25/2006 9:08:50 PM PDT by eleni121 ("Show me just what Mohammed brought:: evil and inhumanity")
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To: Liberal Classic
Creationists are frequently accused of being anti-science either because they...

...don't actually know any science.

___________________________________

Thanks for providing the impromptu emphasis for my point about posters who "cannot simply, politely, answer a point or observation, but simply MUST insert their snide little goads..."

Would you be open to considering the notion that your tone was unduly imperious and snotty and that such a tone just MIGHT be tributary to the overall problem being so lamented in this thread?

289 posted on 10/25/2006 9:09:01 PM PDT by HKMk23 (PRO-LIFE: Because a Person's a Person, no matter how small.)
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To: Beagle8U; CWOJackson
I already addressed your points in post 218.

Try to keep up.
290 posted on 10/25/2006 9:09:07 PM PDT by Blackirish
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To: Sir Francis Dashwood
I am tired of these people throwing sh*t on the Christians.

I'm not a psychiatrist trained in Freudian methods, but I think you seem to have an anal fixation.

291 posted on 10/25/2006 9:09:31 PM PDT by Liberal Classic (No better friend, no worse enemy. Semper Fi.)
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To: Jim Robinson
LOL. Right.

Are you agreeing with my statement, or did you forget to provide evidence for a rebuttal?
292 posted on 10/25/2006 9:09:50 PM PDT by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: RadioAstronomer
Did you know we are still considered a great ape? ...anti evolution nonsense makes the republicans look just plain pig ignorant.

Now why should I, as a reasonable person, be concerned about what I look like to someone who believes himself to be a "great ape". sheesh. ; D

293 posted on 10/25/2006 9:10:22 PM PDT by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: Dimensio

I have seen this request on your part before (it must be you)...but I confess I do not remember. Just let me know the reference and I will try to humor you at some point by the end of the week.


294 posted on 10/25/2006 9:10:34 PM PDT by eleni121 ("Show me just what Mohammed brought:: evil and inhumanity")
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To: Dimensio
" That is an incorrect statement. The theory of evolution has no inherent political bias."

Great! That means you have no bias against having ID taught as a companion theory along with evolution in public schools?
295 posted on 10/25/2006 9:11:05 PM PDT by Beagle8U (Demonrats want the Gays out of Congress.....stand back and let them purge their base.)
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To: Blackirish
LOL! Your explanation was kind of like the win column at the LP website...zip, zero, nada...nothing.
296 posted on 10/25/2006 9:12:08 PM PDT by CWOJackson
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To: HKMk23
Re: Your post 248 this thread.

That is the closest thing to a perfect post on the Crevo topics as I've ever seen!

...and your tagline echoes something I've always said to myself but never put in writing.

Cheers!

297 posted on 10/25/2006 9:12:46 PM PDT by grey_whiskers
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To: Blackirish
"I already addressed your points in post 218."

I think you forgot the postage skippy, nobody got the memo.
298 posted on 10/25/2006 9:13:55 PM PDT by Beagle8U (Demonrats want the Gays out of Congress.....stand back and let them purge their base.)
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To: VadeRetro

Just because some of use believe intelligent design or GASP creation to be a more logical interpretation of the world around us does not mean we are at war with science or do not like its benefits.

I use science every day, and my patients benefit from my knowledge of biology, physiology, pharmacology and a lot of other ologies. I also read enough papers and studied statistics enough to know that one can make research and statistics say pretty much what they want.

I am a scientist and a creationist, and there are growing numbers of us. WE do not discredit the Republican party - most of us are pretty intelligent and thoughful. I don't accuse your group of being knuckle dragging neanderthals for swallowing evolution hook, line and sinker, and would appreciate similar toning of the rhetoric on your side.

I think the internecine warfare discredits the conservatives far more than the creation/evolution debate. I don't know why the conservative movement tends to eat its own, while the dems are very good at keeping their attacks focused on the conservatives.

(Putting on asbestos underwear)

And by the way, I have not been anything less than civil on these threads, but have been called some pretty awful things for the gentleman that was decrying the "uneven" moderation on the threads.


299 posted on 10/25/2006 9:14:28 PM PDT by Mom MD (The scorn of fools is music to the ears of the wise)
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To: Beagle8U
Great! That means you have no bias against having ID taught as a companion theory along with evolution in public schools?

"Intelligent Design" does not qualify as science, and as such it is not appropriate to teach it as a "companion" to the theory of evolution.
300 posted on 10/25/2006 9:15:05 PM PDT by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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