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A Return to Triangulation (libertarion vs social right)
National Review Online ^ | 10/25/06 | David Boaz & David Kirby

Posted on 10/25/2006 11:10:46 AM PDT by Blackirish

As the Republican base fragments and Christian conservatives consider a “fast” from politics, the polling data point to a mid-term Republican thumping. Less than two weeks from now, Republicans will begin their post-mortem soul searching. And as the corpses of their House and Senate majorities grow cold, so should Karl Rove’s 2006 campaign strategy.

(Excerpt) Read more at article.nationalreview.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: besthijack; bestthread; blackirish; braad; creation; darwin; darwincentral; darwinhomebase; doublehijacked; evolution; frhero; frlegend; hero; hijack; hijacked; hijackedthread; legend; libertian; minifreepathon; monthlydonorthon; rehijacked; religion; science; socialright; threadjacked; threadjacking
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To: Blackirish
Democrat's power is tied up in giving away the treasury for votes.
They have payed off folks everywhere with government connected jobs that are very over paid. The unions and all others involved with the government are mostly Democrats because those are who are willing to overpay them.

Conservatives have to go against that. Nearly impossible to overcome and only when we can puncture government employment as a boondoggle will you again see Republicans go far more right.

Now mind you, here in California, Arnold the Governor had the rocks to go after government employment/unions and the conservatives/republicans left him hung out to dry in something reminiscent of the Bay of Pigs in results.

All this talk against Republicans about what everyone wants seems childish to me. Seems some are complaining but ignoring the issue that we are not voting in numbers that give them the margins to act on.
851 posted on 10/26/2006 10:23:49 PM PDT by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: Blackirish

Marking.


852 posted on 10/26/2006 10:23:56 PM PDT by TAdams8591
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To: Senator Bedfellow

But you do on this forum and do a very poor job .


853 posted on 10/26/2006 10:23:58 PM PDT by fatima
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To: stands2reason

I was giving you assistance and agreement. Next time I shan't.


854 posted on 10/26/2006 10:24:40 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: nopardons
Why is it that you NEVER answer a post, but write whatever you damned please, often making no sense at all?

I'm funny that way. I post as I please. It's very liberating - you should try it :^)


855 posted on 10/26/2006 10:25:10 PM PDT by Senator Bedfellow (If you're not sure, it was probably sarcasm.)
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To: stands2reason
No, I think you're missing my point. I'll try again. I say the evolutionists on FR (and elsewhere) who are using their science as a weapon to insult and beat up on religious conservatives are being used as political tools by the Marxists. And the Marxist goals for this effort is to further split the conservative movement, help them eliminate any mention of God from our public life, and make it that much easier for them to destroy the rest of our God-given rights. Bringing forth a socialist Utopia is their ultimate goal (IMHO).

And it appears to working out for them. Too bad and too sad.
856 posted on 10/26/2006 10:25:38 PM PDT by Jim Robinson
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To: SoldierDad

OK, thanks for sharing.


857 posted on 10/26/2006 10:25:48 PM PDT by Senator Bedfellow (If you're not sure, it was probably sarcasm.)
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To: fatima
But you do on this forum and do a very poor job .

Perhaps they'll fire me. Perhaps not. I serve at their pleasure, after all.

858 posted on 10/26/2006 10:26:32 PM PDT by Senator Bedfellow (If you're not sure, it was probably sarcasm.)
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To: nopardons
I thought, and still think, I caught the factual essence of your post(s). The rest sounds like emotional rhetoric.

You attributed motive, were told that wasn't the case, and then made an accusation of lying.

Boiled down to the basics, my original post still stands. Sorry if I upset you, but to directly say someone is lying is a serious accusation.
859 posted on 10/26/2006 10:27:10 PM PDT by ml1954 (ID = Case closed....no further inquiry allowed...now move along.)
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To: metmom
The simple reason Republicans are not as right as we would like them is that the conservatives don't go out consistently to vote for them in margins that give them confidence.

Democrats have an automatic 30+% of the vote build in because their government connected jobs or benefits are dependent on them.

If we banned a union from the government and made it law that the pay and benefits of any government job may never exceed pay of the private sector and you would right there see the end of the Democrat party.

The loss of total control of all information through the press is already melting the Democrats anyway.

Still, if we would all consistently vote in numbers, then Republicans would do more IMO.
860 posted on 10/26/2006 10:28:37 PM PDT by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: Senator Bedfellow
No thanks.............

EXPLAIN IT; EXPLAIN IT NOW!

Glibness is Clintonian and unwelcome. You play games and that is NOT a good thing at all. Either engage in direct debate and/or discussion, or slither over to your other forum and try to impress the people over there.

861 posted on 10/26/2006 10:28:45 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: stands2reason
The only way to drive out bad science is good science, and when anti-evolutionists start doing science instead of apologetics, they will have my attention.

That's odd, I thought you would feel the opposite way about it.

No joke nor flame--but why trash apologetics for "not being science" when it isn't even *pretending* to be science?

I would be more concerned about ID masquerading as "real science" when it is just a mishmash of poor science and poor apologetics.

Cheers!

862 posted on 10/26/2006 10:29:13 PM PDT by grey_whiskers
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To: Senator Bedfellow
Ah, I see. Of course, any container that would sufficiently shield the contents would look a bit odd on the old-fashioned X-ray, don't you think?

Well gee, with all those wires and switches showing up on the X-ray, what do we need NMR for?

863 posted on 10/26/2006 10:30:07 PM PDT by AndrewC
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To: nopardons

I'm not here to impress anyone, nor am I accountable to you. I'm simply here to sign the divorce papers. But first we have to talk about splitting up the albums, and you know how that can be.


864 posted on 10/26/2006 10:30:50 PM PDT by Senator Bedfellow (If you're not sure, it was probably sarcasm.)
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To: AndrewC
Well gee, with all those wires and switches showing up on the X-ray, what do we need NMR for?

I expect that NMR is intended to supplement X-ray machines, not replace them.

865 posted on 10/26/2006 10:32:31 PM PDT by Senator Bedfellow (If you're not sure, it was probably sarcasm.)
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To: Jim Robinson
I say the evolutionists on FR (and elsewhere) who are using their science as a weapon to insult and beat up on religious conservatives

Who here on Free Republic is using science as a "weapon" to "insult and beat up on religious conservatives", and how exactly is this being done?
866 posted on 10/26/2006 10:33:25 PM PDT by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: Senator Bedfellow

Senator Bedfellow
Site Admin


867 posted on 10/26/2006 10:33:29 PM PDT by fatima
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To: Tench_Coxe

I'm having trouble understanding what point you are trying to make. I understand most of your sentences as they stand on their own. And it all works both ways. But what's your point?


868 posted on 10/26/2006 10:33:37 PM PDT by ml1954 (ID = Case closed....no further inquiry allowed...now move along.)
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To: fatima

I administer it. I don't own it.


869 posted on 10/26/2006 10:35:36 PM PDT by Senator Bedfellow (If you're not sure, it was probably sarcasm.)
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To: Senator Bedfellow
"I'm simply here to sign the divorce papers. But first we have to talk about splitting up the albums, and you know how that can be."

If this is true, just say the word and I'll grant you your final papers.

Oh, and those albums, just give them away. Just give them away.

870 posted on 10/26/2006 10:36:46 PM PDT by Jim Robinson
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To: Jim Robinson

The Dems certainly do want to see the conservative movement fractured. I don't think there is any disagreement there. I've written many times on FR that conservatives and libertarians need each other, and should try to bury the hatchet. I've tried to bury the hatchet with a number of people on FR and have discovered shortly thereafter the hatchet buried between my shoulderblades. I tried to make peace with Cultural Jihad once and it turned out badly.

If we're going to stay united against the socialists, religious conservatives need to realize that modern biology isn't the enemy. None of us are "evolutionists". I don't "believe" in evolution in the religious sense. Calling us darwin-idolaters and evilutionists plays into the hands of the Dems, because it helps them portray the conservative movement as the party of luddites. I agree that some of the secular conservatives around here need to be more respectful of the beliefs of the religious conservatives. I try to be respectful of people's faith. I am not without some measure of faith myself.


871 posted on 10/26/2006 10:37:22 PM PDT by Liberal Classic (No better friend, no worse enemy. Semper Fi.)
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To: Senator Bedfellow

Heehee,heehee,Sorry-Heehee


872 posted on 10/26/2006 10:37:26 PM PDT by fatima
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To: nopardons

slither over to your other forum and try to impress the people over there.

So Thou Shalt Not Have Other Forums, lest you be regarded as unworthy of the one true one? Is that what it's all about?

873 posted on 10/26/2006 10:37:36 PM PDT by ml1954 (ID = Case closed....no further inquiry allowed...now move along.)
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To: Dimensio; Jim Robinson


FGS! Go read some of your own posts. You play head games with religious posters --- asking them to PROVE the Ten Commandments are God's words.


874 posted on 10/26/2006 10:38:03 PM PDT by onyx (We have two political parties: the American Party and the Anti-American Party.)
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To: Senator Bedfellow
Hmm, we seem to be talking past each other here.

Let me rephrase my original post, with background, in case I explained it poorly.

Somehow this thread got embroiled in a crevo food fight. It came up that a number of pro-evo's got ticked off (for various reasons, some of which I have heard about, some of which are over my head).

Jim Robinson (founder of FR) pointed out that as the founder of the site he had the right to ban people. Exactly right. As evidence of the "bad faith" (so to speak) of *some* of the evos, he posted links to Darwin Central in his post 655 of this thread.

I clicked his links and READ the posts by some people who have recently posted opuses, or who are still posting. Many of them were being disdainful of FR, or of the conservative movement, or the Republican party, because they disagreed with the influence of "anti-science" types. Some of the posts said so in so many words, some of the posts merely commiserated.

In other words, I was basing it on what I read tonight on DC, not on any notion that FR is the largest portion of the Republican Party.

Full Disclosure: I will not mention names, but a number of the explicitly pro-evo people have FReepmailed me saying they would miss talking to me, or even inviting me to join them on DC. Only a couple of the staunch atheists have ever tried to call me a troll...and I think that that was out of frustration that I was able to logically defend a limited position--they weren't used to that.

Cheers!

875 posted on 10/26/2006 10:38:43 PM PDT by grey_whiskers
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To: Dimensio
Sheesh, the innocent one again. Apparently, you've never been on a "crevo" thread. Well, don't bother. Not worth the effort. Trust me on this one.
876 posted on 10/26/2006 10:39:35 PM PDT by Jim Robinson
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To: onyx
FGS! Go read some of your own posts. You play head games with religious posters --- asking them to PROVE the Ten Commandments are God's words.

Even if your assesment of my postings is correct -- and you have provided no direct references to support your claim -- how would that be an application of science, and in what way is insulting or "beating up" religious conservatives?
877 posted on 10/26/2006 10:40:55 PM PDT by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: nopardons
FR began in 1996, for the sole purpose to discuss CONSERVATIVE POLITICS and most of the aspects of the Clinton administration.

So I'm a class of '04 n00bie.

I was invited by Freeper adam_az, and did not come on as part of any project of infiltration, whatever other reputation the FReeper class of '04 might have :-(

Though there are now many different forums within FR, it is still primarily a CONSERVATIVE POLITICAL FORUM.

Right, like the Hobbit Hole, or Word of The Day...as long as it has Jim's blessing, and God's :-) (and is done in a spirit of amity). I wish the crevo threads had been more civil--and that the pro-evo folks had taken more time to talk to their audience at a beginner's scientific level. They'd have made more friends that way.

Cheers!

878 posted on 10/26/2006 10:42:40 PM PDT by grey_whiskers
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To: Jim Robinson
Sheesh, the innocent one again.

I have asserted no inncoence. I am merely requesting clarification of your claim.

Apparently, you've never been on a "crevo" thread.

You are mistaken. I have witnessed many such discussions, and I have participated in many of them as well.

Not worth the effort.

If it is "not worth the effort" to support your claim with evidence, why then did you make the claim?
879 posted on 10/26/2006 10:44:19 PM PDT by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: ml1954

You have an Anti -Freeper forum,hello.


880 posted on 10/26/2006 10:44:24 PM PDT by fatima
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To: Jim Robinson
There are many in the scientific community who regularly run into the wall and ponder the notion of God. But it's unrevealed, unobservable and therefore beyond the published realm. They will follow faithfully never taking the leap.

But then isn't that God's point in creation?
881 posted on 10/26/2006 10:44:47 PM PDT by BIGLOOK (Keelhauling is a sensible solution to mutiny.)
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To: stands2reason
That vile nonsense has absolutely NOTHING to do with science or logic. NOTHING.

Sigh. Its practitioners called it a science :-)

Foghorn Leghorn voice: "That's a joke, son. You're supposed to laugh."

And Haldane was a pest of the first order, an evolutionist AND a Marxist.

Kind of like, say, Pete Singer at Princeton is a "scientist" and trashes Christians. Or Dawkins. Or Sagan.

Many of the real scientists are Christians. But many of the popularizers (who end up defining "science" in the public eye) are definitely NOT.

Cheers!

882 posted on 10/26/2006 10:45:44 PM PDT by grey_whiskers
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To: Senator Bedfellow
I expect that NMR is intended to supplement X-ray machines, not replace them.

My point was that metal objects look like metal objects.

883 posted on 10/26/2006 10:47:02 PM PDT by AndrewC
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To: Dimensio
To: 1000 silverlings

No man's view, but God's view will do nicely. Let's just start with the 10 commandments and leave it at that.

How have you determined that what you call the "10 commandments" are an accurate representation of God's view?

504 posted on 10/16/2006 3:08:14 PM CDT by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)

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-----------------------------------------------------------

There's one example and I could show you more, but I'm not playing your game.

It's obvious for everyone to see that you enjoy taunting posters. I have no interest in you or in your head games. In my opinion, your posts are a total waste of bandwidth and font.

884 posted on 10/26/2006 10:47:09 PM PDT by onyx (We have two political parties: the American Party and the Anti-American Party.)
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To: Jim Robinson
You hardly need my permission to make me go away, of course. If it helps, I probably won't be posting much after tonight, though.

You may not believe this, but I personally bear you no ill will - I hope that FR continues to grow and be a success for you. This business here, all this mishagoss, is something that was inevitably going to happen sooner or later - I'm only surprised it took this long. People's feelings have been hurt, and they're saddened and disappointed, but everyone will eventually get over it and move on. Folks just outgrew each other, I guess.

885 posted on 10/26/2006 10:48:02 PM PDT by Senator Bedfellow (If you're not sure, it was probably sarcasm.)
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To: Liberal Classic
Sheesh, it's hard to keep up with you evasive types. I was just using your own lingo or the lingo I find on the "crevo" threads you frequent. Ok, you're not evolutionists. And even though you call your base camp "Darwin Central" you wish not to be called "Darwinists" or "Darwin-idolaters." You prefer to be called "Scientists?" "Evolutionary Scientists?" I presume that means you all have advance degrees in Evolutionary Science?
886 posted on 10/26/2006 10:50:00 PM PDT by Jim Robinson
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To: Senator Bedfellow

I guess you're right.


887 posted on 10/26/2006 10:50:56 PM PDT by Jim Robinson
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To: Senator Bedfellow
There used to be a FREEPER here with the nic Jabberwocky, or some such. He always posted from both ALICE books, accompanied by the Tenniel illustrations. At least when HE did it, it was appropriate, made sense, and was funny; none of which is applicable to you and your posts.

You may imagine that you are clever and more intelligent than the rest of us, but that is pure delusion.

You may feel liberated by posting the way you that you do; however, I, for one, find your "liberation" banal and inane.

888 posted on 10/26/2006 10:51:05 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: Jim Robinson
Some are, some aren't (IMHO).

Some are just -- as some other poster said -- playing "mine's bigger than yours."

But there are those who -- in complaining about the lack of scientific credentials -- are playing right into the lefty's hands, by making "intellectual attainments" the only measure of a person's worth.

What they seem to forget is that most of life is about something more than merely academic attainments. Which is why Lance Armstrong made more money than most scientists. :-)

Thanks again for FR, Jim.

Cheers!

889 posted on 10/26/2006 10:51:47 PM PDT by grey_whiskers
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To: grey_whiskers
Jim Robinson (founder of FR) pointed out that as the founder of the site he had the right to ban people. Exactly right. As evidence of the "bad faith" (so to speak) of *some* of the evos, he posted links to Darwin Central in his post 655 of this thread.

Well, you know - he runs his site, and we run ours. He has yet to ask me if I approve of the job he's doing, and I have a feeling he's not going to ;)

Many of them were being disdainful of FR, or of the conservative movement, or the Republican party, because they disagreed with the influence of "anti-science" types. Some of the posts said so in so many words, some of the posts merely commiserated.

Go to a lefty forum sometime - if it hasn't been overrun, you'll find plenty of people gnashing their teeth about how Howard Dean nutjobs or 9/11 conspiracy theorists have hijacked the left. Doesn't mean they're gonna pull the (R) lever in a couple of weeks.

890 posted on 10/26/2006 10:52:03 PM PDT by Senator Bedfellow (If you're not sure, it was probably sarcasm.)
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To: Dimensio

I don't know. Just shooting fish in a barrel I guess.


891 posted on 10/26/2006 10:52:43 PM PDT by Jim Robinson
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To: Dimensio; Jim Robinson

Does this ring a bell?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6e/Touched_by_His_Noodly_Appendage.jpg


892 posted on 10/26/2006 10:53:38 PM PDT by AndrewC
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To: Jim Robinson
, Jim Robinson wrote: Sheesh, it's hard to keep up with you evasive types. I was just using your own lingo or the lingo I find on the "crevo" threads you frequent. Ok, you're not evolutionists. And even though you call your base camp "Darwin Central" you wish not to be called "Darwinists" or "Darwin-idolaters." You prefer to be called "Scientists?" "Evolutionary Scientists?" I presume that means you all have advance degrees in Evolutionary Science?

Jim, how about freepers?

893 posted on 10/26/2006 10:53:56 PM PDT by Liberal Classic (No better friend, no worse enemy. Semper Fi.)
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To: AndrewC
My point was that metal objects look like metal objects.

OK. Well, perhaps unidentified metal objects that look like they might be large enough to conceal a hazardous amount of C4 will warrant further investigation.

894 posted on 10/26/2006 10:54:04 PM PDT by Senator Bedfellow (If you're not sure, it was probably sarcasm.)
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To: Senator Bedfellow
Doesn't mean they're gonna pull the (R) lever in a couple of weeks.

Intelligence isn't their strong suite, is it?

895 posted on 10/26/2006 10:54:31 PM PDT by SoldierDad (Proud Father of a 10th Mountain Division 2nd BCT Soldier fighting in Mahmudiyah)
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To: BIGLOOK

Yup. Faith.


896 posted on 10/26/2006 10:55:42 PM PDT by Jim Robinson
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To: fatima
The set mathematics doesn't work here. We are all conservatives. Some conservatives on FR hold a position on a particular issue, lets call them set A. Some others on FR disagree on this particular issue, lets call them set B. Outside of that issue, A and B agree on, lets say 80+% of the issues. Does that make a forum established by B to discuss these issues amongst themselves without having to talk to A anti-A? That is what you are asserting, and it's silly and not in the mutual interest of both A and B.
897 posted on 10/26/2006 10:59:13 PM PDT by ml1954 (ID = Case closed....no further inquiry allowed...now move along.)
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To: Liberal Classic
I don't think reasonable people trust science as set in stone since things are ever changing and disproved.
898 posted on 10/26/2006 10:59:20 PM PDT by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: SoldierDad

Anyway, the point is, I wouldn't assume the folks at DC are going to pull the (D) lever in a few weeks, regardless of how much griping you see.


899 posted on 10/26/2006 10:59:26 PM PDT by Senator Bedfellow (If you're not sure, it was probably sarcasm.)
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To: ml1954; Senator Bedfellow
Are you postings as ml1954 AND as Senator Bedfellow? Are you his puppet, or is he your Charlie McCarthy doll?

He claimed that he didn't care that he might not be thought to be "important" here, amongst other things...to which I responded with "You're lying."

You are now off on yet another wild tangent, a flight of fancy, trying to make it appear that I said things which I did not and implying that I responded to something that only fills your own mind.

You haven't upset me at all; dear, though it would seem that I have quite "upset" you! In fact I am laughing AT you and your patently ridiculous posts. You've proven to be a rather comical break from the rest of the nonsensical tripe being posted by some others on this thread. LOL

900 posted on 10/26/2006 11:00:04 PM PDT by nopardons
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