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A Return to Triangulation (libertarion vs social right)
National Review Online ^ | 10/25/06 | David Boaz & David Kirby

Posted on 10/25/2006 11:10:46 AM PDT by Blackirish

As the Republican base fragments and Christian conservatives consider a “fast” from politics, the polling data point to a mid-term Republican thumping. Less than two weeks from now, Republicans will begin their post-mortem soul searching. And as the corpses of their House and Senate majorities grow cold, so should Karl Rove’s 2006 campaign strategy.

(Excerpt) Read more at article.nationalreview.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: besthijack; bestthread; blackirish; braad; creation; darwin; darwincentral; darwinhomebase; doublehijacked; evolution; frhero; frlegend; hero; hijack; hijacked; hijackedthread; legend; libertian; minifreepathon; monthlydonorthon; rehijacked; religion; science; socialright; threadjacked; threadjacking
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To: Dimensio; Jim Robinson
Sheesh, the innocent one again.

I have asserted no inncoence. I am merely requesting clarification of your claim.

Apparently, you've never been on a "crevo" thread.

You are mistaken. I have witnessed many such discussions, and I have participated in many of them as well.

I don't know. Just shooting fish in a barrel I guess.


Thank YOU, Jim, for recognizing a REAL problem here.

If it is "not worth the effort" to support your claim with evidence, why then did you make the claim?


Dimensio...you have been a TROLL from day one.

It's so nice to see that others have finally figured you out.

951 posted on 10/26/2006 11:34:52 PM PDT by dixiechick2000 (There ought to be one day-- just one-- when there is open season on senators. ~~ Will Rogers)
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To: nopardons

These are battles?


952 posted on 10/26/2006 11:35:31 PM PDT by ml1954 (ID = Case closed....no further inquiry allowed...now move along.)
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To: Senator Bedfellow

He's your twee boy-toy, is he? How precious.............NOT!


953 posted on 10/26/2006 11:35:45 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: nopardons

See, now he won't make you one, and you don't know what you're missing. Seriously.


954 posted on 10/26/2006 11:37:08 PM PDT by Senator Bedfellow (If you're not sure, it was probably sarcasm.)
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To: Liberal Classic
Science is just the discipline of trying to find a consistent reason for something being the way it is.

Though I respect science in areas such as engineering where it created new helpful devices, it seems to fall apart all the time regarding things of space, earth and especially creation and God.
955 posted on 10/26/2006 11:37:51 PM PDT by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: fatima; Dimensio

"You assume too much importance."


LOL!

That is the understatement of the year!

This one is.........dull.


956 posted on 10/26/2006 11:38:13 PM PDT by dixiechick2000 (There ought to be one day-- just one-- when there is open season on senators. ~~ Will Rogers)
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To: Senator Bedfellow

So is homework-get your rest.


957 posted on 10/26/2006 11:39:37 PM PDT by fatima
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To: ml1954
These are battles?

Sort of a Jets-versus-Sharks style battle, sure.

958 posted on 10/26/2006 11:39:39 PM PDT by Senator Bedfellow (If you're not sure, it was probably sarcasm.)
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To: nopardons

This is a topic I can fully support.

I'm sick of this crap.

Have a wonderful evening.

Nitey nite.


959 posted on 10/26/2006 11:41:54 PM PDT by dixiechick2000 (There ought to be one day-- just one-- when there is open season on senators. ~~ Will Rogers)
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To: Senator Bedfellow; nopardons
So I guess petty insults and sophomoric innuendo are what pass for substantive argument over here.
960 posted on 10/26/2006 11:42:58 PM PDT by ml1954 (ID = Case closed....no further inquiry allowed...now move along.)
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To: dixiechick2000
This thread is funny at this point.Are they dead yet Jim:)scientist yet or so called.
961 posted on 10/26/2006 11:44:01 PM PDT by fatima
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To: dixiechick2000; Jim Robinson; Dimensio; nopardons; ml1954
As I posted before, the problem with Crevo threads is that they always end up like this:

I'll leave it to each poster to decide which of the cre's / evo's side is Calvin, and which is Hobbes.

G'night all.

Cheers!

962 posted on 10/26/2006 11:44:52 PM PDT by grey_whiskers
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To: Senator Bedfellow
I hardly ever drink alcoholic beverages, but evidently you imbibe heavily and too often. That explains a lot.

Please spare us all from sordid details about what else the two of you engage in.

963 posted on 10/26/2006 11:44:58 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: ml1954
Whaddaya mean? We're having a battle, by gum.

Oh, well - I'm gonna retire back to the rear echelons there and put my feet up for a while. This battling thing wears a fella out, ya know.

See you on the flip side, ML :)

964 posted on 10/26/2006 11:45:04 PM PDT by Senator Bedfellow (If you're not sure, it was probably sarcasm.)
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To: Senator Bedfellow

And here I thought FR was some kind of intellectually oriented site.


965 posted on 10/26/2006 11:45:09 PM PDT by ml1954 (ID = Case closed....no further inquiry allowed...now move along.)
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To: ml1954
Only on your side.

Me? I'm laughing, uproariously, at your fatuousness.

966 posted on 10/26/2006 11:46:34 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: ml1954

How bout over there-Yer Majesty~

You have every right to be angry.

Just this: You are no liar.

You've been betrayed.

FR and the Republican party left YOU.

The fault and shame is theirs.


967 posted on 10/26/2006 11:47:07 PM PDT by fatima
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To: Senator Bedfellow
Nobody here cares about any of that.

Get thee to an AA meeting. :-)

968 posted on 10/26/2006 11:48:19 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: ml1954
Actually, you haven't. But as usual, lousy try on your part. Keep it up....you've almost got enough points for a cupiedoll; sugar.
969 posted on 10/26/2006 11:49:38 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: dixiechick2000

Pleasant dreams.................... :-)


970 posted on 10/26/2006 11:51:00 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: ml1954; Senator Bedfellow

How nice of you to finally admit to what the two of you have been trying to pass off as scintillating wit.


971 posted on 10/26/2006 11:52:23 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: grey_whiskers
Truthfully, the ridiculous, banal, inane, and all too pointless crevo/enviro threads and arguments bore me silly. I frankly couldn't care less about this topic, if I tried for the next 1,000 years. As far as I'm concerned, they can all beat up one another until the end of the world. I just wish that they'd go off and do it in their own space, stop hijacking POLITICAL threads, and leave the rest of us alone!

Good night and pleasant dreams.......................

972 posted on 10/26/2006 11:56:55 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: nopardons

nopardons,pretty sad to debate people in highschool for a science forum with people I used to respect.


973 posted on 10/26/2006 11:57:49 PM PDT by fatima
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To: A CA Guy
Thanks for the thoughtful reply. We haven't always seen eye to eye, you and I, but I'll try to return the favor.

I wouldn't say "fall apart" so much as to say our models become inaccurate close to the beginning of time. No one in science declares answes with the same kind of certainty and authority that a pastor or rabbi does. This is not to say that scientific answers aren't authoritative, only that scientific language is always qualified. The language of faith, on the other hand, is typically absolute.

The way I see it, science fills is what we can learn, and faith helps us find those answers that we can't learn (or maybe have a hard time learning) on our own. Science is good at hows and where, while faith answers why. I don't believe there is any conflict between science and faith, because I've worked with too many scientists and engineers who have it. The theological position of the mainstream of Christianity and Judaism is that the Lord exists beyond scientific scrutiny.

One thing I've been trying to say on this thread is that it is not only the Dems that want to drive a wedge between religious conservatives and secular conservatives. There are likely elements of both that are repelling each other. I have represented myself as a libertarian for a long time on these threads, and I have often spoken of the need for fiscal and social conservatives to close ranks. The Dems want to see us tear outselves apart. (They have their own internal pressures, too, but that's for a different therad maybe.)

One of the things I've been driving at for the past couple nights is need to recognize that there are some cranks on FR who would be plenty happy to see pro-science people like me banned and gone for good. I'd like to think I am not an outsider here, but a member in good standing.

My purpose for posting has been to get Jim and other readers of this thread to realize that it is not the mainstream Christians causing problems. What we have are some cranks who believe in things like the moon landing was faked, and doctors can't cure disease, and crop circles, and alien abductions, and geocentrism, man walked with dinosaurs, oil doesn't come from fossils, the earth used to orbit Saturn, man was created on another planet, far out stuff. Once you get a couple of nutballs they attract each other like a magnet attracts iron filings. They clump together. They have cloaked themselves in the mantle of mainstream Christianity, and are leading the charge against "evilutionism" and by playing on people's religious sympathies, hope others will join in. These nuts are driving good posters out, and ultimately playing into the hands of the Dems by driving a wedge between religious conservatives and secular conservatives.

974 posted on 10/27/2006 12:03:01 AM PDT by Liberal Classic (No better friend, no worse enemy. Semper Fi.)
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To: fatima

I think that you need to explain THAT, in private. Something got very lost along the way.


975 posted on 10/27/2006 12:03:54 AM PDT by nopardons
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To: Liberal Classic
A+Bert thought/thinks that the moon landing was staged and not real. He was banned long ago. Through the years, there have been other such tinfoilers on FR.

All of us KNOW that there have been and still are KOOKS posting to FR. Give it up............you aren't serving any function at all. Your "news" is "news" to NOBODY!

Oh, and BTW, you can't be "an outsider" here, as well as "a member in good standing"; that's an oxymoron.

976 posted on 10/27/2006 12:11:16 AM PDT by nopardons
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To: fatima

Hi Fatima. Thanks so for the hello.


977 posted on 10/27/2006 12:20:47 AM PDT by RadioAstronomer (Senior member of Darwin Central)
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To: RadioAstronomer

Hi FRiend,nice to so you.Can we calm things down here?


978 posted on 10/27/2006 12:22:20 AM PDT by fatima
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To: Liberal Classic
The biggest problem I see with some people are they think like whining children.

They want something now, their way and if they don't get it they think wisdom dictates some form of election punishment as a lesson.

The problem with that is it is totally counter productive. It has been proved in the past to only get the fire breathing Democrats in power and sets back our efforts a year or more with the little punishing hissy fits.

Regarding science and evolution, I have no problem with them in general.
Problem I have is first off the TEACHER'S UNION who keeps trying to get religion and conservatism out of the classroom and leave liberalism & a form of humanism in.

As a Christian person, I have no problem in believing that part of the creation job of God was what we call evolution as creation moved forward. Steps if you will of creation adapting as life moved forward.
The public schools want to acknowledge some possible function of creation, but deny the Creator completely.
That I have a problem with.

So OK, they say not in public school, well then there should be vouchers that give us back our tax money so we can use it to a school that meets our approval.

Why should there be a collection of all our education money for a monopoly in public school education? Especially since it fails people and doesn't satisfy many parents with varied belief systems.

So, I have no problem with evolution as a part of creation, but have a problem with how creation is not acknowledged at school at all.
I also think we don't punish Republicans to teach ourselves some lesson that gets the fire breathing Democrat into power. That is total idiocy IMO.
979 posted on 10/27/2006 12:24:31 AM PDT by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: ml1954; Senator Bedfellow
... but to directly say someone is lying is a serious accusation.

Go cry to mommy Charlie!


980 posted on 10/27/2006 12:35:57 AM PDT by BigSkyFreeper (Karl Rove you magnificent bastard!)
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To: A CA Guy
Problem I have is first off the TEACHER'S UNION who keeps trying to get religion and conservatism out of the classroom and leave liberalism & a form of humanism in.

I read an article the other day how as part of a cultural sensitivity class that children were asked to dress up in turbans and robes and fast during the day in observance of the holy month of Ramadan. Hello? I will agree with you whole heartedly something is wrong with a school administration that green lights that while at the same time disallows student-run bible study group. I don't disagree that public schools need reform. A lot of reform, from management to funding to parental involvement.

As a Christian person, I have no problem in believing that part of the creation job of God was what we call evolution as creation moved forward.

This is the exact position of many people I highly respect, and I lean towards something similar myself. Thank you and bless you.

981 posted on 10/27/2006 12:38:15 AM PDT by Liberal Classic (No better friend, no worse enemy. Semper Fi.)
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To: nopardons

I think I did.


982 posted on 10/27/2006 12:39:53 AM PDT by fatima
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To: Senator Bedfellow; Jim Robinson
UNL chemists research bomb detection options

Ah, thanks for that link! I thought I'd never find it again.

Isn't it wonderful that our country has such professors as the one spotlighted in the article, who are dedicated to finding ways to defeat islamofascist terrorists and preserve our security and our American way of life? I'll bet if you asked that scientist, that professor, he'd turn out to be something of a right-winger - just the kind of heroic, pro-American scientist that in earlier times would have been welcomed to FreeRepublic with open arms.

Ah, but ya know, he probably also accepts the godless theory of evolution (maybe he isn't even turned on by Ann Coulter!) so he's probably a Marxist stooge who should not be welcome here. So the management would sooner or later find some flimsy excuse to boot him out.

I wonder who'd be the poorer for that?

983 posted on 10/27/2006 1:14:43 AM PDT by jennyp (The ennui of the short-timer)
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To: Jim Robinson
So you wanna be a FReeper?

Ok, but:

1) You first must pledge to cease and desist from flaming, insulting, attacking, belittling, trashing, defaming or bringing any kind of harm or discomfort whatsoever to other FReepers and or to religious conservatives, anywhere, anytime, on this planet, or in any life hereafter, for all time and forevermore.

2) You must now and forevermore denounce any and all claims to the title "antifreeper" and cease and desist from dissing other FReepers or Free Republic from aforementioned Darwinian base camp or any other such place where antifreeping, stabbing in the back, and other equally unhonorable, unmentionable and despicable acts are conducted.

3) You must recognize that FR does not offer advanced degrees in the field of Evolutionary Science and shall therefore foreverafter swear not to attempt to title thyself "Evolutionary Scientist."

No, Jim. I am a freeper. I am neither a troll nor a disruptor, and I've been around a long time. I haven't been sarcastic, snide, or rude to you at all. Your response here to me is childish and petulant, just as nuking Patrick's homepage for no good reason was a childish and petulant prank. Frankly, I expected better of you, and you ought to be ashamed of yourself.

No, I'm not going to agree to those silly terms. They amount to 'I can hit you, but you can't hit me' law of the schoolyard type stuff.

I think you need to take charge of your site before it gets a reputation for being cranky.

984 posted on 10/27/2006 2:39:53 AM PDT by Liberal Classic (No better friend, no worse enemy. Semper Fi.)
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To: Liberal Classic

So, you have no sense of humor or what?


985 posted on 10/27/2006 3:35:06 AM PDT by Jim Robinson
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To: jennyp

I thought you left already?


986 posted on 10/27/2006 3:35:50 AM PDT by Jim Robinson
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To: jennyp

It is odd that you make fun of someone for believing in demons.


987 posted on 10/27/2006 4:02:03 AM PDT by MarMema
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To: Admin Moderator
Why do I never get these memos?

OK, that was my first-cup-of-coffee LOL for today!

988 posted on 10/27/2006 4:30:28 AM PDT by PistolPaknMama (Al-Queda can recruit on college campuses but the US military can't! --FReeper airborne)
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To: grey_whiskers; Dimensio
-- you happened to ask where *evolutionists* were flaming people, so I gave examples of that.

Simply clicking on evolutionists posting histories at random would provide enough evidence for that, and some are worse than others. A good start is the list you gave.

989 posted on 10/27/2006 5:35:02 AM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: nopardons
Just give him what he's been begging for; his freedom from FR.

The question of the day is *Why doesn't he just leave?* along with the rest of the disatisfied, critical malcontents?

Oh wait, I got it, then they can claim to have been banned from FR for their views and wear it like a badge of honor and use it to smear JR and the site.

Never mind.

990 posted on 10/27/2006 5:46:04 AM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: fatima

He's entertaining at the very least; and very precdictable.


991 posted on 10/27/2006 5:47:52 AM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: fatima
Well Dimensio it does because you think you are important.

Considerations of "importance" are relative. I have never assumed myself particularly "important" with respect to your website. It would appear that your presumption is inaccurate.
992 posted on 10/27/2006 5:48:41 AM PDT by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: jennyp
Conservatism, and FR, truly needs more people like you.
"It is our wits that make us men." (Malcolm Wallace in Braveheart).

The real manly appendage is at the top of the spine when a man is standing upright. Since so many men have no spine anymore and are so used to lying down in feminized submissiveness, they cannot tell the difference between which one is for thought.

The impoverished egos of feminized men make me sick.

993 posted on 10/27/2006 5:52:38 AM PDT by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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To: stands2reason

So, so true. Good science will push out bad.


994 posted on 10/27/2006 5:55:21 AM PDT by satchmodog9 (Most people stand on the tracks and never even hear the train coming)
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To: jennyp; Jim Robinson

rwp was banned for no flimsy reason, as I recall. Why does he keep popping up on this thread?


995 posted on 10/27/2006 5:59:39 AM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Jim Robinson
So, you have no sense of humor or what?



FWIW, No sense of humor is the most outstanding
characteristic of an evo.
996 posted on 10/27/2006 6:11:57 AM PDT by WKB (I Refuse To Have A Battle Of Wits With An Unarmed Person.)
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To: Jim Robinson

Ah, a "loyalty oath."


997 posted on 10/27/2006 6:27:35 AM PDT by Junior (Losing faith in humanity one person at a time.)
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To: metmom
The question of the day is *Why doesn't he just leave?* along with the rest of the disatisfied, critical malcontents?

Some just have an ax to grind with the Christians and the Jews... I do not. I AM NOT AN ORTHODOX ATHEIST!

In fact, I have very little problem with the Hindu or the Buddhist (I have practiced the martial arts all my life, which is really a form of Buddhist movement meditation).

The Islamics and neo-pagans are another story. Their cultures exist only to tear things down.

Like a few quislings here and there, who have no other purpose but to tear down the conservatives in the Republican party and the culture that made this country what it is, I would rather just openly wage war upon them, just as I would unceremoniously nuke Mecca if given the opportunity.

It is no coincidence Islamic pagans hate Israel, Jews, Christians and Western Civilization. The entire basis of Western Civilization is Mosaic Law, something both the Neo-Pagan Left and the pagan Islamic thugs cannot abide and wish to destroy.

It is truly the only reason some are here now and within the Republican party, interlopers from the left who can only defeat America and the Republicans by rotting the party from the inside out.

The only way the Left can win is to destroy the Republican Party from within. They have lost the public argument and cannot win on the issues, they have to have despotic judges do it for them and they have to undermine conservatives in the Republican primary.

998 posted on 10/27/2006 6:28:56 AM PDT by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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To: Junior; Jim Robinson

Better than the conditions set by DC. Evos get a lot more leeway here than non-evos get over at DC.


999 posted on 10/27/2006 6:30:03 AM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom

I WANT THE EVOLUTIONISTS OFF OF EDUCATIONAL WELFARE...


1,000 posted on 10/27/2006 6:32:14 AM PDT by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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