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The Iraq War Is a Cake-Walk
Me

Posted on 11/02/2006 8:26:18 AM PST by Dominic Harr

In a month of fighting on Iwo Jima, we had over 6,000 dead, 25,000 wounded.

And that was a victory.

And now, many Americans consider 2,500 dead/20,000 wounded over several years to be a loss!?

The only hope for victory the enemy has is American public opinion. We've won all the battles. We kill more of them than they kill of us. We hold most of the territory.

Yet I even see Rs calling this a 'failed' war, and suggesting we can't win.


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: deathbyhanging; iraq; killalqaeda; killhamas; killhezbollah; killmoreterrorists
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To: 2banana
Found this online:

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=594867

While I thought the "joke" about pulling out of D.C. was kind of funny, I couldn't believe that those figures were right, so I checked them. They are not even anywhere close based on my calculations. Whoever published that email really twisted his statistics.

According to the email, there have been 2112 deaths in 22 months.
Average US soldier population in Iraq was 160,000
2112 / 1.6 = 1320 deaths per 100,000
1320 deaths / 22 months = 60 deaths per MONTH per 100,000

DC has had 188 murders so far this year, 11 months. http://www.safestreetsdc.com/
Population of D.C. is around 550,000 http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0108620.html
188 deaths / 5.5 = 34.2 deaths per 100,000
34.2 deaths / 11 months = 3.1 deaths per MONTH per 100,000

So take your pick:
D.C. = 3 people killed per MONTH for every 100,000
Iraq = 60 soldiers killed per MONTH for every 100,000 (or 2 per DAY for every 100,000!!!)

101 posted on 11/02/2006 9:31:45 AM PST by Stone Mountain
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To: rlmorel
I know what you are saying, but to use the term "Cake Walk" is a mistake.

That amuses me, to be honest. That's so 'politically correct'.

The objection here is that for 'big victory' I'm using the term cake-walk?

Jeez, even here on FR we're PC to the max.

102 posted on 11/02/2006 9:32:55 AM PST by Dominic Harr (Conservative: The "ant", to a liberal's "grasshopper".)
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To: citizenmike
Sometimes it is useful to look at wars objectively and disspassionately in order to evaluate them. It seems to me that most of the negative commenters are more focused on the emotional aspect of our lost soldiers rather than trying to understand the point you are making.

You know, I've found it to be a lot easier to be "objective", "dispassionate", and "unemotional" sipping my latte and being reflective from comfy confines thousands of miles away from the Cake Walk.
103 posted on 11/02/2006 9:34:12 AM PST by Chief_Joe (From where the sun now sits, I will fight on -FOREVER!!!)
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To: All; RVN Airplane Driver; nicko; Dominic Harr; rlmorel

I hate to see acrimony among some of the older members on this thread. A better title would have been (borrowing from RVN Airplane Driver's paragraph):

"Although every loss is tragic, compared to WW I or II, Viet Nam, or Korea, Iraq is a relatively low loss war."

IMO, dominic's post was meant to say we need to support our troops by seeing them through to the end by winning the war, NOT cutting and running, and if comparisons needed to be made to prior conflicts and wars to remind fence straddlers that this war is one of many we have proudly waged and won, then so be it.

On an individual basis every loss is obviously tragic for the soldier and the family, hence the reaction that is being generated on the thread.

Just my 2 cents.


104 posted on 11/02/2006 9:34:34 AM PST by bwteim (bwteim = begin with the end in mind)
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To: Dominic Harr

Poor choice for a title. It's titles like this that give conservatives chikenhawk and arm chair general.


105 posted on 11/02/2006 9:34:43 AM PST by armymarinemom (My sons freed Iraqi and Afghan Honor Roll students.)
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To: nicko
I think you might want to consider rucking up and seeing for yourself whether or not Iraq is a cake walk...

Is your whole objection here the term 'cake walk'? Or do you feel we are not winning big at all?

106 posted on 11/02/2006 9:35:18 AM PST by Dominic Harr (Conservative: The "ant", to a liberal's "grasshopper".)
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To: bwteim
On an individual basis every loss is obviously tragic for the soldier and the family, hence the reaction that is being generated on the thread.

We've become so PC, we can't even say we're winning big in a cake walk now? We have to qualify our statement of victory now?

Interesting. We're embarrassed to win.

107 posted on 11/02/2006 9:37:07 AM PST by Dominic Harr (Conservative: The "ant", to a liberal's "grasshopper".)
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To: NYleatherneck
Eye gno ... Jann Carrie tauld mi awl abhowt et.

Can you suggest a better term than cakewalk? I don't like it either ...

The underlying point is correct, though. Casualties in Iraq and Afghanistan have been very few compared to the carnage that characterised many previous wars. The MSM hysteria is 'way out of proportion.

Part of the problem is expectations; many Americans expect to have the world handed to them on a silver platter. Life ain't like that. Another part is that thousands of casualties in one day are literally mind-numbing. Folks just can't really grasp the enormity of it the way they can a single death or maiming. "One death is a tragedy; 1000 deaths is a statistic."

108 posted on 11/02/2006 9:37:53 AM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: armymarinemom
Poor choice for a title. It's titles like this that give conservatives chikenhawk and arm chair general.

Only if the PC media has won, and we're embarrassed to admit we're winning a war big.

Consider -- if I went to a mother of a dead soldier and said, "Your son died fighting the enemy, and we won in a cake-walk".

That is in no way insulting, in fact it's gratifying.

Yet look at how the PC world has house-broken FReepers!

109 posted on 11/02/2006 9:39:06 AM PST by Dominic Harr (Conservative: The "ant", to a liberal's "grasshopper".)
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To: Dominic Harr
I think that nicko has a problem with people that weren't there and don't know, calling it a cake walk.

I hope I'm not putting words in your mouth Chief...

Semper Fi,
NYleatherneck
110 posted on 11/02/2006 9:39:12 AM PST by NYleatherneck (It ain't a World War until the French surrender.)
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To: Dominic Harr
Yet I even see Rs calling this a 'failed' war, and suggesting we can't win.

Yes and it ticks me off too. These people need to GET OVER Vietnam and get on with the real world. It drives me crazy.

111 posted on 11/02/2006 9:39:49 AM PST by pollyannaish
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To: NYleatherneck
I think that nicko has a problem with people that weren't there and don't know, calling it a cake walk.

Right, it's all PC here now.

I'm saying we're winning big.

But people are freaking out that I stated it so blankly. Militarily, this enemy has never once threatened to win. That makes it a cake-walk.

The MSM with their PC insistence has made inroads even with FReepers.

112 posted on 11/02/2006 9:41:21 AM PST by Dominic Harr (Conservative: The "ant", to a liberal's "grasshopper".)
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To: Dominic Harr
As the son of a VN Veteran, this matters a lot to me.....Do not let our Nation betray the Troops again!!
113 posted on 11/02/2006 9:41:37 AM PST by Uriah_lost (We've got enough youth, how about a "fountain of smart")
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To: Dominic Harr

Hi Dom,

No, it is not a case of being PC, far from it. It is just obvious that your title suffers from being misinterpreted.

If you had just added the words:
"Compared to WW I or II, the Iraq War is Cake-Walk"
you would have been more clearly understood.

My two cents;)


114 posted on 11/02/2006 9:42:15 AM PST by bwteim (bwteim = begin with the end in mind)
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To: NYleatherneck
I don't think the comment was intended to be "on an individual basis." It was a serious look at the numbers and the American publics understanding of "national" struggle and sacrifice.

It isn't a cakewalk for our hard-working, heroic military...but it has been a cakewalk for the whiny, short attention-spanned American public.
115 posted on 11/02/2006 9:42:44 AM PST by pollyannaish
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To: Dominic Harr

Because, a Cake Walk is Admiral Dewey in the Spanish-American War where there was only one death in the battle.

Granted, we will win, and with minimal losses, but cake walk isn't the best description...


116 posted on 11/02/2006 9:43:05 AM PST by Experiment 6-2-6 (Admn Mods: tiny, malicious things that glare and gibber from dark corners.They have pins and dolls..)
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To: ArrogantBustard
I really can't. Cake walk is insulting, disaster is insulting and inaccurate. It's just combat. It is what it is.

Semper Fi,
NYleatherneck
117 posted on 11/02/2006 9:43:19 AM PST by NYleatherneck (It ain't a World War until the French surrender.)
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To: Dominic Harr
If you'd just say that we're kicking their sorry asses up one side of Iraq and down the other, I don't think anybody would object.

But Cakewalk??? How would you like to commute to work every day wondering if some raghead had buried a pile of explosives under the highway?

118 posted on 11/02/2006 9:44:29 AM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: bwteim
It is just obvious that your title suffers from being misinterpreted.

I like it cuz it's an attention getter. People get all up in arms, come in to argue the point, lose the argument quickly, and go away thinking about it.

I don't want to be liked. I want to get in people's faces, and make them think about this war, about the victory we're winning.

119 posted on 11/02/2006 9:44:33 AM PST by Dominic Harr (Conservative: The "ant", to a liberal's "grasshopper".)
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To: bwteim
It is just obvious that your title suffers from being misinterpreted.

I like it cuz it's an attention getter. People get all up in arms, come in to argue the point, lose the argument quickly, and go away thinking about it.

I don't want to be liked. I want to get in people's faces, and make them think about this war, about the victory we're winning.

120 posted on 11/02/2006 9:44:35 AM PST by Dominic Harr (Conservative: The "ant", to a liberal's "grasshopper".)
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To: Dominic Harr

I doubt many Iraqi soldiers who are risking their lives every day agree that they are engaging in a "cake walk."


121 posted on 11/02/2006 9:45:14 AM PST by Captain Kirk
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To: Dominic Harr

your title, and the use of the term "cake walk" is perhaps one of the stupidest fuckin' things I've read on FR in quite some time...let it go...


122 posted on 11/02/2006 9:46:10 AM PST by nicko (CW3 (ret.) CPT, you need to just unass the AO; I know what I'm doing- Major, you're on your own.)
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To: Dominic Harr

Mission Accomplished.


123 posted on 11/02/2006 9:47:05 AM PST by NYleatherneck (It ain't a World War until the French surrender.)
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To: Dominic Harr

Misinterpreted? You mean like Kerry's speech. No, I don't think his words are misinterepreted at all here. He really belives that the Iraq war is akin to an afternoon outing the springtime.


124 posted on 11/02/2006 9:47:09 AM PST by Captain Kirk
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To: ArrogantBustard
But Cakewalk???

The enemy has never once even threatened to come close to winning a single battle.

That is a cakewalk.

I like the inflamatory nature of this title. I want to get people talking about it, thinking about it. People understood me just fine. But the 'PC' mindset that has infected so many requires qualifiers, soft language, etc.

I want people talking about this, arguing about this.

125 posted on 11/02/2006 9:47:20 AM PST by Dominic Harr (Conservative: The "ant", to a liberal's "grasshopper".)
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To: Chief_Joe
You know, I've found it to be a lot easier to be "objective", "dispassionate", and "unemotional" sipping my latte and being reflective from comfy confines thousands of miles away from the Cake Walk.

I don't drink latte, but if it helps you then sip away.

126 posted on 11/02/2006 9:47:24 AM PST by citizenmike
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To: Dominic Harr

You have done that. We are winning, if the MSM and their Left supporters would let the truth out. The Cut and Run crowd are poison now just like they were during Viet Nam.

PS - I still like ya;)


127 posted on 11/02/2006 9:47:29 AM PST by bwteim (bwteim = begin with the end in mind)
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To: Dominic Harr

Er...ahem.

No, that is NOT Politically Correct language.

It is just, plain and simply wrong. As I said, your rhetoric is flawed. I am trying to help you out here.

If someone is killed by having holes drilled in their head, and someone else is killed by being decapitated, does that make the experience of the decapitation victim a "Cake Walk"? No, it doesn't, any more than seeing one of your buddies blown to smithereens by an IED is a cake walk compared to seeing 20 of your buddies blown to pieces by a direct hit from an artillery shell.

MY life is a cake walk compared to someone in combat.

The flaw in your rhetoric is that you think "Cake Walk" is a completely relative term like "better". It is not. I will grant you that a veteran of combat in Tarawa may have thought fighting the Germans in France was a "Cake Walk", but it is his right to make that characterization. Veterans of the European theater would have every right to disagree, and it would be their right to do so.

Good gosh. Why am I having this discussion?


128 posted on 11/02/2006 9:48:20 AM PST by rlmorel (The US Media...Where you get Million Dollar Words From people with a Ten Cent Fart for a brain.)
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To: Captain Kirk
I doubt many Iraqi soldiers who are risking their lives every day agree that they are engaging in a "cake walk."

Ask them if they're winning in a cake-walk.

Ask them if the enemy ever once threatens to win.

129 posted on 11/02/2006 9:48:23 AM PST by Dominic Harr (Conservative: The "ant", to a liberal's "grasshopper".)
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To: Dominic Harr
Yeah, anyone complaining about the low number of casualties just doesn't know what war is.

In a real war you have hundreds of thousands of troops killed on both sides. Civilians, too, get slaughtered if they are on the wrong side. There are shortages, rationing, wage and price controls, blackouts, high taxes, censorship, all kinds of sacrifices required of the populace.

And a military draft.

Now, how many on this site would like to have a real war? Are you ready for all it would entail?

130 posted on 11/02/2006 9:48:47 AM PST by logician2u
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To: Dominic Harr

You're resounding victory in your struggle to be disliked is a real "cake walk."


131 posted on 11/02/2006 9:49:14 AM PST by SAR_Bill (Not real fond of the Froggies.)
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To: Captain Kirk
No, I don't think his words are misinterepreted at all here.

No misinterpretation.

I mean that the enemy has not once threatened to win. That means we're winning in a cakewalk.

132 posted on 11/02/2006 9:49:32 AM PST by Dominic Harr (Conservative: The "ant", to a liberal's "grasshopper".)
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To: bwteim
PS - I still like ya;)

Dang -- and I'm trying so hard to be provocative!

133 posted on 11/02/2006 9:50:35 AM PST by Dominic Harr (Conservative: The "ant", to a liberal's "grasshopper".)
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To: Dominic Harr; rlmorel; NYleatherneck
Provocative;)

Here, I'll give you provocative:



134 posted on 11/02/2006 9:53:07 AM PST by bwteim (bwteim = begin with the end in mind)
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To: rlmorel
As I said, your rhetoric is flawed.

The first post by me made if very, very clear what I am saying.

Compared to Iwo Jima, etc, Iraq is a cake-walk.

Now if people are in a habit of not reading what I say, then that's their problem, isn't it.

I said what I meant, and I meant what I said.

135 posted on 11/02/2006 9:54:04 AM PST by Dominic Harr (Conservative: The "ant", to a liberal's "grasshopper".)
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To: SAR_Bill
You're resounding victory in your struggle to be disliked is a real "cake walk."

:-)

I think this is mainly a story of folks who read the headline, but didn't bother to read the post!

I clearly said, compared to Iwo Jima, this is a cake walk.

Yet many seem to have read something else entirely into it, and believe I'm disparaging the death and loss.

That makes this thread lively, and gets people thinking.

My work here has been productive.

136 posted on 11/02/2006 9:56:09 AM PST by Dominic Harr (Conservative: The "ant", to a liberal's "grasshopper".)
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To: Dominic Harr

I think people have been pretty easy on you, as a non-combat vet, calling the experience of those in any degree of combat a "cake walk".

You make the mistake of thinking that because people disagree with your rhetorical "attention getter" device, that they are wrong and you are right.

You are plainly and simply wrong on this. And, I can guarantee you, every single veteran, without exception, would disagree with you on the characterization.


137 posted on 11/02/2006 9:56:48 AM PST by rlmorel (The US Media...Where you get Million Dollar Words From people with a Ten Cent Fart for a brain.)
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To: bwteim
I do think this is a classic case of FReepers not bothering to read a thread before commenting.

The first post makes clear what I'm saying, no possible misunderstanding.

And yet -- many here did indeed misunderstand!

Very interesting study in online debating.

138 posted on 11/02/2006 9:57:49 AM PST by Dominic Harr (Conservative: The "ant", to a liberal's "grasshopper".)
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To: Dominic Harr; taxed2death
>>....ask some soldier sitting in a Vet hospital with no arms and legs pissing out of a tube if Iraq has been a cake walk.

>Ask that person, "Compared to the trench battles in WWI, did you have it easy in Iraq?"

And you think that they will answer, "Why yes, I did have it easy"?

139 posted on 11/02/2006 9:59:26 AM PST by drungus
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To: Dominic Harr
I'm saying we're winning big. But people are freaking out that I stated it so blankly.

Could be because "we're winning big" is as facile as "in a cake walk."

Militarily, this enemy has never once threatened to win. That makes it a cake-walk.

Right now, on the ground in Iraq, who's the enemy?

140 posted on 11/02/2006 9:59:54 AM PST by atlaw
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To: rlmorel
And, I can guarantee you, every single veteran, without exception, would disagree with you on the characterization.

:-)

Did you read the post I started this thread with? I don't believe Veterans would disagree with what I stated.

I know you think you understand what you thought I said. But what you heard is not what I said. Go back and read what I actually said.

141 posted on 11/02/2006 10:00:32 AM PST by Dominic Harr (Conservative: The "ant", to a liberal's "grasshopper".)
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To: drungus
And you think that they will answer, "Why yes, I did have it easy"?

I *know* most would answer, "wow, compared to charging the German trenches in Verdun, I have it easy".

Well, the ones who know anything about Verdun, anyway.

142 posted on 11/02/2006 10:01:48 AM PST by Dominic Harr (Conservative: The "ant", to a liberal's "grasshopper".)
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To: Dominic Harr
Only if the PC media has won, and we're embarrassed to admit we're winning a war big.

I'm about as un-politically correct as you can get and I still think the title is bad. Making valid points doesn't get you anywhere when you choose a title that just doesn't work. Even with the casualty numbers much lower than WWII it doesn't change the fact that our troops are tired and war is hell. When you approach those fighting or the families of those fighting and use terms such as "Cake Walk", you are in danger of getting a good cyber smack to the snout.

I do very much agree that Americans should go over the numbers from previous wars and count our lucky stars. Americans should also be aware that fighting a PC war is actually costing lives.

I bet if you walked up to a family with loved ones deployed during WWII and said that compared to the great war this is a cake walk you could have walked away with a shiner.

143 posted on 11/02/2006 10:02:16 AM PST by armymarinemom (My sons freed Iraqi and Afghan Honor Roll students.)
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To: atlaw
Right now, on the ground in Iraq, who's the enemy?

That is the main trick here in this war.

It's an interesting, dangerous problem. But militarily, it never once threatens a 'victory' on the battlefield.

Compared to "how do we take this island with 20,000 dug-in Japanese", tis a better problem to have.

144 posted on 11/02/2006 10:03:53 AM PST by Dominic Harr (Conservative: The "ant", to a liberal's "grasshopper".)
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To: Stone Mountain

Both are on a yearly basis


145 posted on 11/02/2006 10:05:01 AM PST by 2banana (My common ground with terrorists - they want to die for islam and we want to kill them)
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To: NYleatherneck

roger that...meet me at the VFW...


146 posted on 11/02/2006 10:05:05 AM PST by nicko (CW3 (ret.) CPT, you need to just unass the AO; I know what I'm doing- Major, you're on your own.)
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To: Dominic Harr

I haven't read through the entire thread but I read enough to know that the title you chose caused more comments to be negative than the body of your post. If the title had read, "The Iraq War is a Cake-Walk COMPARED TO...", you probably wouldn't have gotten so many negative responses.

I looked past the title and read the body of what you posted. After reading the body, I knew what you meant in your title, and that you were not saying that our military men and women in Iraq were on a "calk walk". Just that it's a "cake-walk" compared to past wars. And that sir, is historically true. I'm confident that in the context of what your point is, our son, who served in Iraq, would agree with you. His great-uncle was killed in WWII on Iwo Jima. Time, history and perspective are assets.


147 posted on 11/02/2006 10:06:46 AM PST by Chena ("I'm not young enough to know everything." (Oscar Wilde))
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To: Dominic Harr

You think your point is clear, and you then go on to disparage those who point out that your "attention getter" does not help the point you make.

Only liberals have the license to use words and make them mean whatever they want them to mean.

Conservatives, and most Freepers, understand that words have meaning, and if you make a point you wish people to take seriously, you need to be able to back up your words with logic.

You have used a phrase "Cake Walk" and decided that you are the arbiter of the meaning of that phrase. The fact is, utility, history and usage of the phrase are not on your side.

Some people who probably HAVE the right to tell you how wrong you are have been exceedingly civil in their comments to you, and you disparage them.

That says a lot more about you than it does about them.


148 posted on 11/02/2006 10:06:47 AM PST by rlmorel (The US Media...Where you get Million Dollar Words From people with a Ten Cent Fart for a brain.)
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To: armymarinemom
I bet if you walked up to a family with loved ones deployed during WWII and said that compared to the great war this is a cake walk you could have walked away with a shiner.

You would be very wrong.

On 1/2 a dozen occasions I have said, "It's tragic your son died over there, but he's a hero. We're winning this thing in a cake-walk. The enemy never once even threatens to win, militarily."

That's my point -- you folks have somehow lost sight of the reality. Victory, winning in a cake-walk, is a *good* thing, not insulting.

149 posted on 11/02/2006 10:06:56 AM PST by Dominic Harr (Conservative: The "ant", to a liberal's "grasshopper".)
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To: Dominic Harr

Just to be clear, most of the soldiers you know "sitting in a Vet hospital with no arms and legs pissing out of a tube" would answer your question, "wow, compared to charging the German trenches in Verdun, I have it easy"?


150 posted on 11/02/2006 10:08:03 AM PST by drungus
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