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The Iraq War Is a Cake-Walk
Me

Posted on 11/02/2006 8:26:18 AM PST by Dominic Harr

In a month of fighting on Iwo Jima, we had over 6,000 dead, 25,000 wounded.

And that was a victory.

And now, many Americans consider 2,500 dead/20,000 wounded over several years to be a loss!?

The only hope for victory the enemy has is American public opinion. We've won all the battles. We kill more of them than they kill of us. We hold most of the territory.

Yet I even see Rs calling this a 'failed' war, and suggesting we can't win.


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: deathbyhanging; iraq; killalqaeda; killhamas; killhezbollah; killmoreterrorists
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Please forgive me for the vanity, but I'm very interested in this issue. I'm always fascinated when 'conventional wisdom' is flat-out-wrong. 'Group-think' just fascinates me.

The issue seems so easy to win in a debate. Every single time I chat with someone on the issue, they end up agreeing with me.

1 posted on 11/02/2006 8:26:20 AM PST by Dominic Harr
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To: Dominic Harr

Support The Troops, Vote Republican


2 posted on 11/02/2006 8:26:56 AM PST by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: Dominic Harr

Dont forget the 9000 KIA in one day at Normandy


3 posted on 11/02/2006 8:27:28 AM PST by Former MSM Viewer ("We will hunt the terrorists in every dark corner of the earth. We will be relentless." W 2001)
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To: Dominic Harr

Please send this to Ralph Peters. He is the latest and greatest victim of Paul Craig Roberts syndrome.


4 posted on 11/02/2006 8:28:14 AM PST by .cnI redruM (We can leave the battle field, but the battle field will not leave us.)
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To: Former MSM Viewer
Dont forget the 9000 KIA in one day at Normandy

Outstanding point. Thanks. I just saw 'Flags of our Fathers' so I was thinking about Iwo Jima, but your point is even more illustrative.

How is it suddenly 2,500 dead over years is a 'disaster'?

5 posted on 11/02/2006 8:28:48 AM PST by Dominic Harr (Conservative: The "ant", to a liberal's "grasshopper".)
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To: george76

I know a few folks who wouldn't call their time in Iraq a cake walk...


6 posted on 11/02/2006 8:28:51 AM PST by nicko (CW3 (ret.) CPT, you need to just unass the AO; I know what I'm doing- Major, you're on your own.)
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To: Dominic Harr
Viewed on the wide table of history, the War in Iraq and in Afghanistan are BY FAR the least bloody and most utterly overwhelming military campaigns in the history of history.
7 posted on 11/02/2006 8:30:07 AM PST by Danae (Anál nathrach, orth' bháis's bethad, do chél dénmha)
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To: Dominic Harr

The kill ratio in Afghanistan is 100 to 1 in our favor, yet the libs say we are losing.


8 posted on 11/02/2006 8:31:44 AM PST by Brilliant
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To: Dominic Harr
The Iraq War Is a Cake-Walk

Remember, the war in Iraq has been over for quite some time. Saddam's army was defeated. What's going on now is in the same place, but it's not the same conflict.
9 posted on 11/02/2006 8:31:51 AM PST by aruanan
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To: Dominic Harr

Subject: Iraq versus Washington

If you consider that there has been an average of 160,000 troops in the Iraq theatre of operations during the last 22 months, and a total of 2,112 deaths, that gives a firearm death rate of 60 per 100,000 soldiers.

The firearm death rate in Washington, D.C. is 80.6 per 100,000 for the same period. That means that you are about 25% more likely to be shot and killed in the U.S. Capitol, which has some of the strictest gun control laws in the nation, than you are in Iraq.

Conclusion: The U.S. should pull out of Washington immediately.


10 posted on 11/02/2006 8:32:07 AM PST by 2banana (My common ground with terrorists - they want to die for islam and we want to kill them)
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To: Dominic Harr
That was a different world, dude.

You might also point out that the U.S. eventually dropped two atomic bombs on the enemy in that specific example.

Since that ain't gonna happen anytime soon in Iraq, your point is -- well, pointless.

11 posted on 11/02/2006 8:32:39 AM PST by Alberta's Child (Can money pay for all the days I lived awake but half asleep?)
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To: Dominic Harr

For example, 2,300 murdered in California in 2003.

Iraq isn't a cakewalk but we lost 3,200 in ONE DAY in 2001.


12 posted on 11/02/2006 8:33:32 AM PST by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
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To: Former MSM Viewer
Dont forget the 9000 KIA in one day at Normandy

About 9,000 casualties on D-Day including around 3,000 killed.

13 posted on 11/02/2006 8:33:51 AM PST by KarlInOhio (Hey Kerry, What part of showing heels and ass is a winning strategy in Iraq?)
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To: nicko
I know a few folks who wouldn't call their time in Iraq a cake walk...

Compared to Omaha beach? Or Iwo Jima?

I don't believe you.

14 posted on 11/02/2006 8:33:59 AM PST by Dominic Harr (Conservative: The "ant", to a liberal's "grasshopper".)
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To: aruanan
What's going on now is in the same place, but it's not the same conflict.

Much like WWI and WWII were really the same conflict, I don't think history will agree with you -- in my opinion.

15 posted on 11/02/2006 8:35:07 AM PST by Dominic Harr (Conservative: The "ant", to a liberal's "grasshopper".)
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To: Dominic Harr

Cake walk ???


16 posted on 11/02/2006 8:35:35 AM PST by NYleatherneck (It ain't a World War until the French surrender.)
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To: 2banana
You're mixing up a monthly rate / 100,000 in Iraq with a yearly rate in DC. Also, a lot (maybe most) of the deaths of our troops in Iraq are from explosives rather than gunfire.
17 posted on 11/02/2006 8:36:14 AM PST by KarlInOhio (Hey Kerry, What part of showing heels and ass is a winning strategy in Iraq?)
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To: Alberta's Child
That was a different world, dude.

Right -- a world in which the people had been thru *real* hard times, a previous major war (WWI) and a great depression.

Now, people have had it so easy, that they are ignorant of 'real' bad times, of a 'real' military disaster.

Our troubles always consume us, no matter how minor those troubles are. It's human nature.

18 posted on 11/02/2006 8:37:16 AM PST by Dominic Harr (Conservative: The "ant", to a liberal's "grasshopper".)
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To: NYleatherneck
Cake walk ???

Compared to a Iwo Jima? Or Normandy? Or WWI? Or the Civil War?

Yes.

19 posted on 11/02/2006 8:38:36 AM PST by Dominic Harr (Conservative: The "ant", to a liberal's "grasshopper".)
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To: Dominic Harr

....ask some soldier sitting in a Vet hospital with no arms and legs pissing out of a tube if Iraq has been a cake walk.

Opinions differ.

At the very least...it's a bad choice of words.


20 posted on 11/02/2006 8:38:42 AM PST by taxed2death (A few billion here, a few trillion there...we're all friends right?)
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To: Dominic Harr

I wonder if the issue isn't the number of casualties, but what and how long it will take to defeat the enemy and win this unconventional war.


21 posted on 11/02/2006 8:40:26 AM PST by newgeezer (Just my opinion, of course. Your mileage may vary. You have the right to be wrong.)
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To: Dominic Harr

Funny... I've never found people shooting at me to be a cake walk. Next time I'm down in Virginia visiting old friends, I'll ask them what they think.

Semper Fi,
NYleatherneck


22 posted on 11/02/2006 8:40:44 AM PST by NYleatherneck (It ain't a World War until the French surrender.)
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To: Dominic Harr

Arabs have killed more arabs than we have. They don't care who they harm.


23 posted on 11/02/2006 8:42:39 AM PST by Waco
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To: taxed2death
....ask some soldier sitting in a Vet hospital with no arms and legs pissing out of a tube if Iraq has been a cake walk.

Ask that person, "Compared to the trench battles in WWI, did you have it easy in Iraq?"

24 posted on 11/02/2006 8:42:48 AM PST by Dominic Harr (Conservative: The "ant", to a liberal's "grasshopper".)
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To: Dominic Harr
The 3 month long Battle of Okinawa, (March - June, 1945) saw American losses at over 72,000 of whom 12,500 were killed or missing, over twice the number killed at Iwo Jima and Guadalcanal combined. Several thousand soldiers who died indirectly (from wounds and other causes), at a later date, are not included.

About a third of the civilian population of the island were killed (approx 150,000 and about 100,000 Japanese soldiers killed and 7,000 captured. Some of the soldiers committed seppuku or simply blew themselves up with grenades. Some of the civilians, having been convinced by Japanese propaganda that the Americans were barbarians who committed horrible atrocities, killed their families and themselves to avoid capture.

25 posted on 11/02/2006 8:44:17 AM PST by Ditto
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To: Dominic Harr
The issue seems so easy to win in a debate. Every single time I chat with someone on the issue, they end up agreeing with me

Yeah, I imagine it's pretty easy to convince 7th graders this Iraq War bears a lot of similarity to WWII.

26 posted on 11/02/2006 8:44:38 AM PST by edsheppa
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To: NYleatherneck
Next time I'm down in Virginia visiting old friends, I'll ask them what they think.

It's a matter of perspective.

Ask them, compared to Verdun in WWI, is this a cake walk?

We've lost such perspective, I'm so amused.

27 posted on 11/02/2006 8:44:42 AM PST by Dominic Harr (Conservative: The "ant", to a liberal's "grasshopper".)
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To: Dominic Harr
You're completely correct in your views.

It's "all" about perceptions at this point.

Even the nation building is coming along at a pace that is without parallel. How long has it been? 3 years and we are seeing a new Iraqi Army, Constitution, elections, judicial system, operating courts, Police, Saddam is caught, AQ's #1 man is dead, a new currency is in use, real wages have near doubled, infrastructure is largely repaired and oil is flowing.

If you say something long enough, "It's a quagmire", "miserable failure", "another Vietnam", some will believe it. Truth is, viewed from a historical perspective, Germany, France, or South Korea took LONGER to recover after the wars. Germany didn't have a currency until later, their first Army stood up in 1952 (seven years after the war ended), it took longer for them to have a Constitution, their first elections........ It's all about "perceptions".

If people expect that we should have all the infrastructure in Iraq repaired within 3 months of the war, despite Baghdad being a city of 5.6 million and all having A/C in a nation where it gets to 122F, then achieving this in 1.5 years is a failure, even if it was a logistical and engineering marvel! Again, it's a percieved failure.
28 posted on 11/02/2006 8:44:50 AM PST by Red6 (Weird thoughts -)
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To: Dominic Harr
"Yet I even see Rs calling this a 'failed' war, and suggesting we can't win."

You are too right to remark on this. I just finished reading "The Burma Road" by D. Webster and though I read Stilwell's bio earlier, this was truly a grim account and a detailed and exhaustive rendering of everything British/American/Indian/Chinese/Chindits and others had to endure and to accomplish in that theater. I still cannot believe humans are capable of such silent and unheralded sacrifice... but it was done. The exact same effort with nothing like the loss in men and materiel is taking place now in the WOT and American Liberals cannot see far enough past their own noses to understand it for the monumental and history making military and foreign policy accomplishment that it is.
29 posted on 11/02/2006 8:45:51 AM PST by SMARTY ("Stay together, pay the soldiers and forget everything else." Lucius Septimus Severus)
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To: Dominic Harr

I guess perspective is relative at Arlington.

Semper Fi,
NYleatherneck


30 posted on 11/02/2006 8:45:55 AM PST by NYleatherneck (It ain't a World War until the French surrender.)
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To: edsheppa
Yeah, I imagine it's pretty easy to convince 7th graders this Iraq War bears a lot of similarity to WWII.

It is, actually. It's very easy to point out the obvious.

I have had a lot of success with my kids and their friends.

There's no arguing it.

This war, compared to others, is a cake walk.

31 posted on 11/02/2006 8:46:09 AM PST by Dominic Harr (Conservative: The "ant", to a liberal's "grasshopper".)
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To: Dominic Harr
How is it suddenly 2,500 dead over years is a 'disaster'?

It's a disaster when there's no need for the 2500+ to be dead. I'm sorry, but your condescending remark is no different than Kerry's in my opinion. Rumfeld's policies and actions towards the military are more reflective of Kerry elitism than support for the troops.
32 posted on 11/02/2006 8:46:09 AM PST by Chief_Joe (From where the sun now sits, I will fight on -FOREVER!!!)
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To: Dominic Harr

Cake walk? Why aren't you over there enjoying the cake?
Is Kerry ghost writing your text?


33 posted on 11/02/2006 8:47:25 AM PST by SAR_Bill
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To: NYleatherneck
I guess perspective is relative at Arlington.

Are you saying that if any soldiers die, it equals a military disaster?

Would you agree that, compared to the battle of Okinawa, this war has been very low-cost?

34 posted on 11/02/2006 8:47:34 AM PST by Dominic Harr (Conservative: The "ant", to a liberal's "grasshopper".)
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To: Dominic Harr
We kill more of them than they kill of us. I think THEY kill more of them than they kill of us.
35 posted on 11/02/2006 8:47:50 AM PST by SF Republican
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To: Dominic Harr

Did Jon Carry give you the title to this thread? Kinda dumb if you ask me.


36 posted on 11/02/2006 8:48:22 AM PST by John Lenin
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To: Dominic Harr; All

Those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it. We lost in Viet Nam not because our military suffered defeat, but because of the political war waged here at home. We stand to yet again lose a political war, and by extension the military one as well, if these loud mouths continue providing aid and comfort to our enemies. Our troops, given the ability and time, will win this fight. God Bless each and every one of them.


37 posted on 11/02/2006 8:48:28 AM PST by SoldierDad (Proud Father of a 10th Mountain Division 2nd BCT Soldier fighting in Mahmudiyah)
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To: Dominic Harr

Abortionists will brutally, with malice aforethought, kill more Americans TODAY than were killed on 9-11 or in the entire Afghan and Iraq Wars combined.


38 posted on 11/02/2006 8:48:43 AM PST by EternalVigilance ("Don't be a Nancy Boy, Vote Republican!")
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To: Danae

The Japanese and Nazi military's dwarfed anything Iraq had in place post Gulf War. Comparing asymetrical warfare with symetrical warfare can be a bit misleading. Defeating the Japanese empire militarily is quite different than fighting an enemy with no clear command structure. In fact, even determining who the enemy is can be a difficult proposition when sectarian violence accounts for a large percentage of the fighting and no one wears uniforms to identify who they are fighting for.


39 posted on 11/02/2006 8:49:10 AM PST by cccp_hater (Just the facts please)
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To: Dominic Harr

Oh, and by the way, they will kill that many tomorrow, and the next day, and the next and the next...until we put a stop to it.


40 posted on 11/02/2006 8:50:02 AM PST by EternalVigilance ("Don't be a Nancy Boy, Vote Republican!")
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To: Chief_Joe
It's a disaster when there's no need for the 2500+ to be dead.

!?

It's a bridgehead against the terrorists. A 'target of opportunity'.

We picked the time and place for the battle, chose ground we want to fight on.

We took the battle *to* the enemy, and have now not been attacked on our soil in years.

The Iraq war is a cause celeb for the terrorists. They all want to go fight there. This is a *brilliant* and successful strategy.

41 posted on 11/02/2006 8:50:45 AM PST by Dominic Harr (Conservative: The "ant", to a liberal's "grasshopper".)
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To: Dominic Harr
Nope... I'm saying that Central Park in the fall is a cake walk, patrolling Fallujah is most definately not.
42 posted on 11/02/2006 8:51:25 AM PST by NYleatherneck (It ain't a World War until the French surrender.)
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To: SAR_Bill
Why aren't you over there enjoying the cake?

I'm too old, now.

I was in the Tx Army Nat'l Guard, many years ago. I would have had to go to Iraq, had I been younger.

And I would have.

Do you agree that in Iraq, the death rate is low, compared to past wars?

43 posted on 11/02/2006 8:52:22 AM PST by Dominic Harr (Conservative: The "ant", to a liberal's "grasshopper".)
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To: EternalVigilance
Oh, and by the way, they will kill that many tomorrow, and the next day, and the next and the next...until we put a stop to it.

Would you agree that compared to the Civil War, WWI, WWII, Korea, Viet Nam -- this is a very low-bodycount war?

44 posted on 11/02/2006 8:54:25 AM PST by Dominic Harr (Conservative: The "ant", to a liberal's "grasshopper".)
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To: NYleatherneck
Nope... I'm saying that Central Park in the fall is a cake walk, patrolling Fallujah is most definately not.

Compared to assaulting the German trenches at Verdun, is patrolling Fallujah a cake walk?

45 posted on 11/02/2006 8:55:14 AM PST by Dominic Harr (Conservative: The "ant", to a liberal's "grasshopper".)
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To: Dominic Harr

The term "cake walk" for dead and maimed American soldiers is the issue, not comparisons with previous wars. If I give you some email addresses of mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, spouses and children of the dead, would you be so kind as to write them and tell them their loved-ones died in a "cake walk?"


46 posted on 11/02/2006 8:56:14 AM PST by SAR_Bill
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To: Dominic Harr

Can't say... Wasn't at Verdun.

Semper Fi,
NYleatherneck


47 posted on 11/02/2006 8:56:21 AM PST by NYleatherneck (It ain't a World War until the French surrender.)
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To: cccp_hater

Completely true.


48 posted on 11/02/2006 8:56:55 AM PST by Danae (Anál nathrach, orth' bháis's bethad, do chél dénmha)
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To: Dominic Harr

ah, so there you have it...frankly, I could give a shit less if you "believe me" or not...I did not compare anything to anything...I simply said what I said...maybe you've been in combat, maybe not...I would tend to think you're in the latter group...maybe you'd like to post your service record so my friends can hold up their "cake walk" time in Iraq to yours...


49 posted on 11/02/2006 8:57:30 AM PST by nicko (CW3 (ret.) CPT, you need to just unass the AO; I know what I'm doing- Major, you're on your own.)
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To: John Lenin
Did Jon Carry give you the title to this thread? Kinda dumb if you ask me.

Compared to landing on Omaha beach, is this war in Iraq a cake-walk?

50 posted on 11/02/2006 8:57:43 AM PST by Dominic Harr (Conservative: The "ant", to a liberal's "grasshopper".)
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