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Repost: (+) THE ART OF THE (WEAPONS) CACHE (+) (defunct website?) ^ | March 1, 2001 | Travis McGee

Posted on 11/08/2006 7:21:48 PM PST by SW6906

This is a repost from 2001. Here is the original (locked) thread

Sad to say, the march of anti-constitutional laws continues to quicken the pace. Today tens of thousands of law abiding citizens face becoming "armchair felons" because they are not gullible enough to comply with mandatory registration and licensing of long owned firearms. Collectors have been raided on bogus pretexts, then arrested for "paper violations", and had their assets seized. It's a shame, but in many jurisdictions your AR-15 or SKS is an "outlaw rifle", and you are at risk every day that you keep it in your house. It is doubly a shame because these are exactly the types of arms the founding fathers were speaking of when they wrote the 2nd Amendment...

So if you will not register or turn in your weapons, and are reluctant to keep some of them in your house, what is to be done with them, to preserve them for use at some future date? Many folks just say "bury them" but this is simplistic and may be self defeating, for a buried gun may be rusted, forgotten, or paved over in time. The "art of the cache" is then the subject of this lesson.

First we must define a few terms, for there are several classes of caches. A fighting cache or ready cache is one where a rifle or other weapon is kept, sighted in and with the correct ammunition and cleaning gear, available on short notice. A long term cache should be able to lay undetected for years if need be. An Escape and Evasion cache will contain a complete getaway kit in addition to a firearm, against the day that the owner finds himself pursued by enemies.

An E&E cache will contain the items listed in Squantos' E&E kits, as well as hair dye, "instant tan" lotion, scissors, a razor, a nylon windbreaker and a hat for a quick appearance change. Cash, gold, a space blanket, a poncho for shelter and a pistol would also be included. All of these items can be kept in a .50 caliber metal ammo box available at any army surplus store.

What arms to cache? If you are considering caching any weapons, it makes sense to cache both your black "outlaw" firearms and your cheap surplus military rifles, the Enfields and SKS's and so on. The former may land you in legal trouble, the latter are inexpensive and may best prove their worth by waiting hidden and silent for the moment of need. Pistols also should be considered, particularly inexpensive surplus police revolvers. There is no other type of firearm which may be handed to a complete novice with confidence that the new shooter will be able to use it effectively on the first try, and you may someday be in the position of arming a complete novice. Millions of non-shooters may become ardent RKBA advocates in the years to come and you should consider arms for them as well as for yourself.

Where should you locate your cache?I will consider three broad areas: rural caches, urban caches, and underwater caches.

The Rural Cache: In the countryside, cache options abound far beyond the cliched hole in the ground, although that option is not to be left out! In the boonies, look for old private junkyards, every big farm has at least one on the back 40! Rusty forgotten tractors, cars, refrigerators and farm equipment are made to order, full of hidden nooks and crannies where a rifle or three may be inserted, yet remain readily available. Of course, hiding firearms in and around old iron negates the chance of technical detection. Abandoned farmhouses, barns, ruins, and foundations provide countless hiding places, as do small caves, worked out mines, and graveyards. And of course you can just bury your package, preferably near or around some clutter of old scrap metal to provide magnetic camouflage.

The Urban Cache: In cities and towns you must be a bit more creative to find a good cache location which will remain undisturbed for years. Abandoned factories and warehouses, forgotten steam tunnels, scrap yards and neglected corners of basements and attics of some buildings may be used. You need to find a quiet dark out of the way corner were you can remove some tile or blocks or panels to create a mini vault, then hide by replacing the cover. Old large diameter pipes or pump casings may be used as is. Sometimes it is possible to create a cache by adding a bogus utility box or fake run of pipe which has no other purpose than to look old and nasty, and hide a gun or two.

The Underwater Cache: Arms may be sealed into a PVC pipe, then sunk for a great cache. Ammo packed inside around the arms will provide enough weight to sink the tube. Tie a strong nylon or monofilament line around the middle of the pipe, and lower the cache under an old rotten abandoned dock or wharf. So much junk accumulates under old docks that one more slime and barnacle encrusted pipe section will attract no attention at all. Tie the top end of the line to a piling down under the waterline, the entire line will soon be so nasty that no one will ever touch it, except you!

Packaging the Cache: No matter where your cache will be located, you should go to great pains to make sure that it remains sealed and moisture proof. As mentioned, large diameter PVC pipe fits the bill perfectly. If you want access without cutting open the pipe, you can buy an end cap with a threaded center. For really long term storage, release the springs from your magazines and operating rods where possible. A chunk of dry ice dropped into a watertight package and allowed to "steam off" before sealing will purge out the rust producing oxygen. Store bought silica desiccant bags may also be used. Wherever ammo is stored, beware of using penetrating oils, as in time they may deaden the primers.

Plastic five gallon buckets with sealed lids may also be used, as well as heavy duty "white water rafting" bags, marine "flare kit" boxes and containers, surplus military ammo and ordnance boxes and many other types of containers. Where possible, for long term storage seal the lids with a bead of silicone glue.

Where tight cache space is a consideration, you may have to merely wrap your weapons in plastic. In this case use the biggest thickest heavy duty lawn and garden bags you can find. After placing the arms inside, suck out all the air you can, twist the end, put a few strong wires ties around the neck, fold it over, and put more wire around it again. Then do this again inside another bag. Long rifles which will not fit in a bag will have to be wrapped in industrial plastic sheeting, taped up, and kept in a fairly dry location. This type of packaging may be considered where a weapon may be in a "fighting cache", ready for use on short notice.

Locating Your Cache: Nothing is worse than stumbling around looking for a cache so well hidden that you cannot find it, so give a lot of thought to the landmarks you will locate it by, and write them down! Don't put the entire location on one piece of paper (for security), just the final directions which will not make sense if the paper is compromised. Remember, your cache area may look very different in different seasons, so choose landmarks which will stand out in summer foliage or winter snow. It is a good idea to take compass bearings from several permanent landmarks, as well as pacing the distances where possible. Or you may locate the cache by aligning it with an old wall, or between distinctive boulders, just make sure the features are permanent: bushes and gullies may disappear. Be alert to construction around your cache, and if the survey stakes go up, move it out ASAP. You may use GPS coordinates, but consider that GPS may be degraded or turned off at any time, and mark your location the "old fashioned way" first.

Cache Security: When you look for a cache location, consider that you will need a "cover for action" to explain your presence in the area. If you jog cross country, go on hikes, bike or four wheel drive you have it made. The cache location must have terrain or vegetation cover to conceal your loading and unloading it: forget the "cover of darkness", in this era of NVGs that is a thing of the past.

Before returning to a cache do some counter-surveillance: loop around the area looking for the "watchers" who may be staking it out, or a new "utility box" which may contain a remotely operated camera. When finally approaching the cache, don't go directly to it, first "fish hook" your trail, double back and observe your own path in to check for followers. Finally, walk right past your cache and make a "false unload". If you are taken down at this point, they may not find the true cache, and your "cover for action" (eg.: taking a leak on a routine hike) may pass muster. Only when you are truly sure of your safety should you go to the cache and unload it.

In addition, you should leave "tell-tales", small innoucuous secret marks which will tell you if anyone has disturbed and replaced your cache. It is a favorite trick of security forces to put tracking devices into cached weapons in order to follow the guerrilla back to his base and catch the entire band. A tell-tale may be a bit of thread or a pebble etc. placed in such a way that if the cache is disturbed it will break or fall out without the security forces noticing it.

In Summary: I hope this has been an informative and thought provoking article. Even if you do not think it is necessary to cache any weapons (or an E&E kit!) at this time, you will at least be able to take walks in the woods to scout out some likely sites for future use. Look for sites at various distances from your home from a short walk to a day's drive: don't keep all your eggs in one basket. It is a good idea to "load" a cache with some old tools just for practice. See if they rust, see if the local eleven year old boys find them, see if you can get in and out of the area without being seen. Practice makes perfect, so try some "dry runs" today so that you will be a seasoned pro if and when it becomes necessary to cache "the war iron" for real and for keeps.

And don't forget to BLOAT! Buy Lots Of Ammo Today!

TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: banglist; cache; cwii; stockpiling; survival
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To: Bear_Slayer

Hey, I liked the guy and I didn't ban him, I'm just saying that's why he was banned. It's not my perception that matters, it's the big guys perception that matters.

141 posted on 11/11/2006 7:45:49 AM PST by ozarkgirl
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To: ozarkgirl
I like the guy too and many others that left when he was banned. I'm pi$$ed that he lost his priviledges over something as simple as what he posted and I wanted, with you, to clear up why he was banned. One can go to the original thread and read the transcript. I think JR was very heavy handed in his reaction to Travis.

I wonder if JR is eating crow now that the GOP lost the senate and house. Maybe him and Rush shouldn't have carried water for so many quislings. Ya think?

FR used to be a spirited place. I'm sorta glad the GOP lost the house and senate. Maybe the GOP can once again realise how bad the Dems are gonna destroy this country, and maybe the GOP won't cower from or pander to them, or at worst, sell out the party to line their own pockets.

142 posted on 11/11/2006 8:04:11 AM PST by Bear_Slayer (When liberty is outlawed only outlaws will have liberty.)
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To: GingisK

the brass varies by lot number for both military and civilian cartridges.
I weigh the brass, and group them by weight. If one case weighs more than the other, and the outside is the same, then the difference is on the inside, The heavier one actually shoots higher (I find), most likely due to the higher pressure when touched off, due to same charge in a smaller space. The difference can be more than 20 fps out the barral.

143 posted on 11/11/2006 9:19:50 AM PST by going hot (Happiness is a momma deuce)
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To: oyez
What I was getting at is for most of it is too late. Our neighbors know we hunt. The see us load up and go to the range. We got the trucks that say "Sportsman". There's the bass boat. We're already profiled.

"Profiled"? Well, of course. As a white, middle-aged, heterosexual Christian male, I'm profiled many times over. The larger worry is being "on the list" - which I most assuredly am. Back before the anti-gun crowd caught my attention and made me re-evaluate certain practices of mine, I bought several firearms over the counter from a local dealer. Years later, that dealer was investigated and eventually the FFL holder was convicted of selling guns to felons. All the transactions were legit, as I understand the regs governing FFL holders; it was an ATF fishing expedition. But I digress.

Bottom line - ALL of the dealer's 4473s were seized. So, the feds know what I bought there - as well as the purchases by many others, including my dad, cousins, friends, etc. We're all in the database. So now, I consider all of the stuff bought on a 4473 to be "sacrificial". It's not the entirety of my collection, though... and it's certainly not all in one place.

Here's another thought: Do y'all remember the Smith & Wesson "agreement"? Well, it's not dead. In fact, I think I just saw it twitch.

144 posted on 11/11/2006 12:23:34 PM PST by Charles Martel (Liberals are the crab grass in the lawn of life.)
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To: Charles Martel
Bottom line - ALL of the dealer's 4473s were seized.

Yeah, I can see where an activist Federal Judge could link a search warrant to every one. Agents could go online for a particular 4473 and the server could come up with all kinds of information plus a ready made search warrant. Is this a wonderful country, or what?

145 posted on 11/11/2006 12:42:48 PM PST by oyez (Why is it that egalitarians act like royalty?)
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To: going hot

Thank you! Makes me want to get back into loading. I sure have a mean pile of empty brass now.

How do you measure muzzle velocity?

146 posted on 11/11/2006 4:22:10 PM PST by GingisK
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To: GingisK

there are kits. You set up the device just ahead of the bench, and shoot through two hoops. The minicomputer measures the bullet speed from the first ring though the other.

147 posted on 11/12/2006 3:23:09 AM PST by going hot (Happiness is a momma deuce)
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To: GingisK

Chrony to measure muzzle velocity.

148 posted on 11/12/2006 5:38:07 AM PST by Hazcat (Live to party, work to afford it.)
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To: SW6906
I have recently become very enamored with a Taurus 4410 Tracker 45/410 Revolver. I want it bad, but it occurred to me that one day it may be considered the equivalent of a sawed off Shotgun and I will be forced to "hand it over"

To me it seems to be an excellent Home Defense weapon, the first and maybe second round being 410 #4 or #6 and follow up with the next three or four being being 45

What are your thoughts on both the gun grabber aspect as well as the Home Defense attributes

149 posted on 11/12/2006 5:48:16 PM PST by TexasTransplant (NEMO ME IMPUNE LACESSET)
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To: TexasTransplant
Regarding the Taurus, I'm not sure I would want such a gun. Seems to me whenever anyone tries to do more than one simple thing with a tool, they end up doing both badly. Better to have more than one tool - each dedicated to the task at hand - and get it done right. JMHO.

You might have a point about the gun grabber aspects. I could see them going that route just like they did with "assault rifles" that are functionally identical to most any other rifle, just "military" in appearance.

Read my tagline: there is no such thing as having too many guns. I keep a Mossberg 500 (?) shotgun with the shorter (legal) barrel, plug removed and pistol grip on it for home defense. I have it loaded bird shot - bird shot - buck shot - buck shot - slug. I figure it is in order of needing to get the perps attention. If he's still coming by the time I get to the slug, the slug will certainly stop him. ;o)

150 posted on 11/14/2006 4:41:19 AM PST by SW6906 (6 things you can't have too much of: sex, money, firewood, horsepower, guns and ammunition.)
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To: SW6906
>>>>>"I have it loaded bird shot - bird shot - buck shot - buck shot - slug. I figure it is in order of needing to get the perps attention. If he's still coming by the time I get to the slug, the slug will certainly stop him. ;o)"<<<<<<

By the time you get to the slug you would have to decide which half of the perp you want to shoot.

151 posted on 11/14/2006 6:53:51 AM PST by TexasTransplant (NEMO ME IMPUNE LACESSET)
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To: xrp
Free Republic is the better for all the longtime conservative posters it's banned.


152 posted on 11/14/2006 7:06:19 AM PST by Rb ver. 2.0
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To: Petruchio
If I was going to cache some firearms, I would not cache all. First off, I would sort by which ones have a paper trail. Those would be left at home for the JBT's to find. After all, they already know I have those ones . . . Those with absolutely no paper trail (no 4473, no sales receipt, no gunsmith records, etc. ) would get cached with ammo and cleaning kits.

You can always keep a few to turn in in good faith and for the rest, say you sold/traded/gave them away. Copy of the classified ad you took out (you told all callers they were already sold) a handwritten receipt with drivers license # (how were you to know it was fake?) may be just enough to let you live. Probably not a good idea to report anything stolen though. If you ever give it to your grandson and he gets stopped for a traffic ticket, you don't want him to be in possession of a "stolen gun".

153 posted on 01/13/2007 3:06:19 PM PST by fso301
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To: fso301

So, it would not be a good idea to say they were stolen "a week from next Tuesday" ???

154 posted on 01/13/2007 4:46:19 PM PST by Petruchio (* Censored *)
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To: Petruchio
So, it would not be a good idea to say they were stolen "a week from next Tuesday" ???

I guess my concern is that once reported as stolen, it will always be stolen. Keeping it next to your bed will essentially carry the same legal risk as keeping an unregistered machinegun next to your bed. You have no other choice but to bury it in a cache.

Should your days turn to twilight and you never needed to use your cache, you'll want to let a son or grandson know where it/they are. Unfortunately, as "stolen" weapons, they'll be able to do nothing with them other than keep them cached or run the risk of being caught in possession of stolen property.

By selling/trading/giving them away, you can always come back later and claim you happened to run across the guy you sold it to and bought it back.

155 posted on 01/13/2007 5:46:20 PM PST by fso301
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To: SW6906

A Goody for later..

156 posted on 11/12/2008 12:28:27 PM PST by Chinstrap61a
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To: Chinstrap61a


157 posted on 11/12/2008 12:31:21 PM PST by ctdonath2 (I AM JOE THE PLUMBER!)
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To: SW6906


158 posted on 11/12/2008 1:00:06 PM PST by bonnieblue4me (You can put lipstick on a donkey (or a dimrat), but it is still an ass!)
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To: SW6906


159 posted on 11/12/2008 2:19:51 PM PST by Jasper (Stand Fast, Craigellachie!!)
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To: Jasper

Book mark.

160 posted on 11/12/2008 2:21:46 PM PST by Jet Jaguar
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