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FUTURE OF THE GOP - All factions agree it's time to start over on an agenda
San Francisco Chronicle ^ | 11/9/6 | Carolyn Lochhead

Posted on 11/09/2006 7:48:23 AM PST by SmithL

Washington -- Republicans woke Wednesday to a coast-to-coast wreckage in the midterm congressional elections that many acknowledged was of their own making.

Tuesday's political earthquake -- destroying Republican majorities that took decades to build -- slammed the door on the Bush era and opened the door to recrimination, regrouping and a rethinking of the party's governing philosophy.

"I can tell you none of us wants to spend a minute longer in the minority than we have to, but I think we recognize that this is not a loss where you can just repackage the same agenda and move ahead," said Rep. Jeff Flake, R-Ariz., who coasted to re-election by campaigning against "earmarked" spending for lawmakers' pet projects and for comprehensive immigration reform. "We need a major course correction, and some of us have been making that argument for quite a while."

Just what that course correction will be -- a return to the party's small-government roots, a new centrism or something else -- will take shape as surviving Republicans choose new leaders, decide how to work with the new Democratic majorities in the House and the Senate and take sides in what will be a wide-open contest for the 2008 GOP presidential nomination to succeed President Bush.

The loss of the House was expected, but the loss of the Senate came as a hard shock to the party. The consequences are devastating to the survivors, who with their majorities also lose the chairmanship of every policymaking committee -- the power centers on Capitol Hill.

The post-rout housecleaning started first thing Wednesday.

House Speaker Dennis Hastert announced that he would step down, while back-bench fiscal conservatives led by Rep. Mike Pence, R-Ind., began plotting a takeover.

(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: bluestatewhine
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Free advice from the Comicle.
1 posted on 11/09/2006 7:48:26 AM PST by SmithL
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To: SmithL

Here is the crux of the problem. We've got guys that have no core convictions, they just try to guess what will get them elected.


2 posted on 11/09/2006 7:49:22 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: SmithL

The GOP must get back to its conserivitive roots bigtime.


3 posted on 11/09/2006 7:51:30 AM PST by Biggirl (A biggirl with a big heart for God's animal creation.)
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To: SmithL

Mitt Romney in 2008.


4 posted on 11/09/2006 7:52:10 AM PST by meg88
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To: dfwgator

Interesting comment by Flake---"small government," si. "Comprehensive immigration reform=amnesty," no. This is the GOP's problem. It needs to figure out if it indeed represents Americans or immigrants first. There is a necessary place for LEGAL immigrants, but Flake's not getting athe message, and having Graf and Hayworth lose doesn't help send it.


5 posted on 11/09/2006 7:52:24 AM PST by LS
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To: SmithL
We need to return to conservatism and ignore the media's advice to go moderate. That is a sure path for the GOP to go the way of the Whigs.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." -Manuel II Paleologus

6 posted on 11/09/2006 7:55:46 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: Biggirl
The GOP must get back to its conserivitive roots bigtime.

Agreed, but I wonder if that's even possible. Has the Reagan Revolution become just a fond memory?

7 posted on 11/09/2006 7:56:01 AM PST by randog (What the...?!)
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To: LS
We need to make it clear we are not against LEGAL immigration. But we are against amnesty of any kind for people entering our country ILLEGALLY. Its not fair to reward people with citizenship and its benefits who flout the most basic of our laws: a nation's right to control its borders and decide who gets to live here.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." -Manuel II Paleologus

8 posted on 11/09/2006 7:58:14 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: SmithL

This should work, but someone like Hagel will probably spoil any attempt!


9 posted on 11/09/2006 8:00:43 AM PST by F-117A (They say there is no such thing as an ex-Marine,.Murtha disproves that!!!)
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To: meg88

"Mitt Romney in 2008."

Yup, another triangulator is just what we need.


10 posted on 11/09/2006 8:01:41 AM PST by FastCoyote
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To: dfwgator

I agree that there are only a handfull in the GOP with core conservative convictions...but I am not sure that this is the ONLY cause of the rout.

Has ANYONE mention the price of gasoline having an effect?...there are millions of people out there who pay little attention until their cable rates go up, or gas prices spike....How can we explain the fact that EVERY state that put forth an ammendment defining marriage as man and woman saw that ammendment approved by 60% or more, yet they voted for senators and congressmen who belong to the party that supports gay marriage? The two do not compute.

I saw this in South Carolina once....a dem ran for governor promising the lottery...people who don't know a dem from a republican voted the idiot into office...once they had the lottery...they didn't vote the next time...he lost his re-election...

I could be wrong, but I think there were millions of votes due to gas prices...they blame whoever is in office.


11 posted on 11/09/2006 8:02:04 AM PST by Moby Grape
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To: FastCoyote

you want McInsane or Rudy instead?


12 posted on 11/09/2006 8:03:53 AM PST by meg88
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To: Biggirl
The GOP must get back to its conserivitive roots bigtime.

Like readin', rittin', and rithmetic. :-)

13 posted on 11/09/2006 8:04:51 AM PST by rhombus
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To: Impeach the Boy

One way I see it is that Dean, Pelosi and Reid sold their souls to get this election win, by bringing in more centrist, even conservative candidates. They might have planted the seeds that ultimately result in their own doom within the party. And that would be a great result. This country is much better off if truly the Democratic Party can move back towards the center, where they were before the moonbats took over the party in the early 70s.


14 posted on 11/09/2006 8:05:18 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: SmithL
Some planks for our platform.

New law to end earmarking bills
Balanced budget
Pay down the national debt
Repair the military (The Dems will leave it in tatters)
Finish the fence
15 posted on 11/09/2006 8:05:29 AM PST by Dixie Yooper (Ephesians 6:11)
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To: Impeach the Boy

Gas prices? They're low now. I think if anything can be generalized it was impatience with the war.


16 posted on 11/09/2006 8:06:16 AM PST by rhombus
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To: Dixie Yooper
Some planks for our platform. New law to end earmarking bills Balanced budget Pay down the national debt Repair the military (The Dems will leave it in tatters) Finish the fence

Good start. What about Iraq and the War on terror? What about Social Security? What about Health care? What about the cost of education? YOU many not care but people voting will care.

17 posted on 11/09/2006 8:07:30 AM PST by rhombus
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To: Dixie Yooper
Institute congressional term limits. Replace the income tax with a consumption tax. Abolish federal involvement in education and social services and return the responsibility to state and local governments. Complete the transformation of the military into a lighter and mobile force equipped to fight the insurgency wars of the future. Get America out of the UN.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." -Manuel II Paleologus

18 posted on 11/09/2006 8:09:27 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: rhombus
What about Iraq and the War on terror? What about Social Security? What about Health care? What about the cost of education? YOU many not care but people voting will care

The planks I laid down are definite ideas, not questions. If you have answers to your questions, please lay down more planks.

19 posted on 11/09/2006 8:11:55 AM PST by Dixie Yooper (Ephesians 6:11)
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To: Dixie Yooper

New law to end earmarking bills - must be made into a CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT...........or it won't work......


20 posted on 11/09/2006 8:12:42 AM PST by Red Badger (New! HeadOn Hemorrhoid Medication for Liberals!.........Apply directly to forehead.........)
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To: dfwgator
Find some REAL men and REAL women to run, bunch of wimp's that were holding office and got 'whupped up on'. Sell out and pay the price.
21 posted on 11/09/2006 8:12:43 AM PST by gulfcoast6
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To: gulfcoast6

Hastert's defending of William Jefferson, D-LA was the last straw for me. From that point I got totally disgusted, and my old cynical attitudes about government returned in spades.


22 posted on 11/09/2006 8:14:44 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: rhombus

Gas prices were around 1.00 a gallon when Bush took office. They are over 2.00 a gallon now and began to rise again two days before the election.

If you will recall, there was a gas price spike when Carter was president...he got routed in the next election.


23 posted on 11/09/2006 8:14:49 AM PST by Moby Grape
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To: goldstategop

Amen. That's why I say, the best place to start any "comprehensive immigration reform" is with mass deportations. Once the pool is emptied, we can see if there are cracks and re-fill it.


24 posted on 11/09/2006 8:15:17 AM PST by LS
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To: dfwgator

I agree...Yes, the GOP has been their own worst enemy, but there is MORE to it than that.


25 posted on 11/09/2006 8:15:29 AM PST by Moby Grape
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To: SmithL

Here is the problem as I see it. These Bozo's will see the election as move to the left. What it actually is, is a move by conservatives away from the left that has become the Republican party.

They will then attempt to remedy the solution by moving further to the left.

a clusterf#*& if there ever was one.


26 posted on 11/09/2006 8:17:06 AM PST by Vaquero ("An armed society is a polite society" Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: Dixie Yooper
What about Iraq and the War on terror? What about Social Security? What about Health care? What about the cost of education? YOU many not care but people voting will care The planks I laid down are definite ideas, not questions. If you have answers to your questions, please lay down more planks.

OK, Iraq/War on Terror: We will be safer when these countries take responsibility for their own representative governments and we continue to help them achieve that. Social Security: We can't afford it, therefore it needs to be privatized over a period of time... oh wait, Bush said that so it has to be wrong now that the Republicans in Congress decided not to suppport him and lost.

27 posted on 11/09/2006 8:17:21 AM PST by rhombus
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To: SmithL
Start here.

Stop with the last sentence. Trim off anything that does fit within.
28 posted on 11/09/2006 8:17:42 AM PST by Dead Corpse (Anyone who needs to be persuaded to be free, doesn't deserve to be.)
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To: Impeach the Boy

I don't buy it, gas prices are low now and everyone is talking about how low they are. Iraq is a MUCH bigger issue right now. When they do spike up again people will be whining but this election? No way.


29 posted on 11/09/2006 8:19:13 AM PST by rhombus
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To: SmithL
this is not a loss where you can just repackage the same agenda and move ahead

The agenda isn't the problem. The problem is the lack of intestinal fortitude when it comes to advancing the agenda. For the past six years the Republicans have been the mail carriers and the Democrats have been a pack of yapping dogs nipping at their heels. Mail carriers with intestinal fortitude mace the little bastards, not throw doggie treats to them in an effort to buy their affection. Item number one on the agenda should be, 'grow a pair!'

30 posted on 11/09/2006 8:19:35 AM PST by layman (Card Carrying Infidel)
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To: All

This is not an earthquake.

It's Not Even A Significant Defeat.

The left is unaware that they seats they took from GOP candidates were won by pro life, pro gun conservative Democrats because the Dems kept that secret from their base.

The GOP doesn't have to change one iota philosophically. All the columns being written are all about earning the columnist's paycheck because THEY HAVE NOTHING TO SAY THAT MATTERS.

The number one issue of voters was corruption scandals because a conservative country will not tolerate corruption.

Present squeaky clean candidates to the electorate and those GOP seats return to the GOP in 2008 -- if those Democrats vote EVEN ONCE with the liberals.

So stop wasting your time pontificating about philosophy and get to work creating spreadsheets to track the votes of these alleged conservative Democrats who will either toe our line, change parties, or not even bother to unpack when they get to DC. Everytime they vote liberal, send notice to their local newspapers.


31 posted on 11/09/2006 8:19:48 AM PST by Owen
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To: SmithL
Hindsight is 20/20.

We wouldn't be talking about "starting over" if our guys hadn't lost their principles in the first place.

If we're not willing to dump the guys who led us astray, we'll be in disarray for years to come.

We can't be successful unless everybody is on the same page.

32 posted on 11/09/2006 8:23:49 AM PST by moondoggie
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To: rhombus

I asked IF any exit polling, etc. had mentioned the possibility of any effect from the prices...I have not heard, as of yet of any.

I am confident that there are non-political types (millions of them) who do get fired up over matters that effect them personally.


33 posted on 11/09/2006 8:24:47 AM PST by Moby Grape
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To: Red Badger
New law to end earmarking bills - must be made into a CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT

I agree. Any other ideas?

34 posted on 11/09/2006 8:26:43 AM PST by Dixie Yooper (Ephesians 6:11)
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Actually its the continual shift of the middle 5 % of voters that flips this thing back and forth.

The true libs and true conservatives can't win power without them, but they waffle back and forth over issues. Iraq kicked them back to the left. It all depends on whether Pelosi and Schumer's ilk can swallow their beliefs for very long. If they go too far off the reservation, I could see a handful of the house dems revolting...maybe not flipping GOP, but getting out of the game or turning independent.


35 posted on 11/09/2006 8:26:58 AM PST by Crimson Elephant
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To: goldstategop

They already know this. They leave off the word "illegal" with intention. The next Senate bill will likely be worse that the original mostrosity. I'm hoping the Dem leadership will put a stop to it just to keep Bush from claiming credit for it, and put it off until 2008.


36 posted on 11/09/2006 8:28:33 AM PST by Mamzelle
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To: Impeach the Boy
I am confident that there are non-political types (millions of them) who do get fired up over matters that effect them personally.

No question this is true. We better have some alternatives to offer over the high cost of health care...other than "tough it out" and be a conservative.

37 posted on 11/09/2006 8:31:49 AM PST by rhombus
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To: Dixie Yooper

Yes, but they are not very popular.........


38 posted on 11/09/2006 8:32:47 AM PST by Red Badger (New! HeadOn Hemorrhoid Medication for Liberals!.........Apply directly to forehead.........)
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To: dfwgator

The guys with no core convictions should just be honest and become outright Democrats...lying numbnuts.


39 posted on 11/09/2006 8:32:58 AM PST by madison10 (Live your life in such a way that the preacher won't have to lie at your funeral.)
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To: SmithL

I think a new party rule should be to ban anyone with the last name of 'Bush' from ever running for President again. Just like his father, dubya has led us to electoral disaster.


40 posted on 11/09/2006 8:34:01 AM PST by Ikemeister
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To: dfwgator
I agree that the RINOs had a lot to do with it but so did conservative voters. They want what they want and they want it NOW.

Immigration is the best example. Just like Dimocrats, many got carried away on the tide of news coming from the MSM and instantly got angry. Illegal immigration has been a concern of mine since the 80s but most people gave it no thought until the MSM riled them up and got the exact reaction they wanted.

Bush got the blame for all of it and that wasn't the case. It was first the Reagan amnesty and then the elder Bush, who actually tried but couldn't get anything done and then the Clinton administration who actively made it worse and then Bush who didn't seem to be doing much. He was, but 9/11, of course, took much of his attention and many, many of the already stretched thin BP were transferred to the Canadian border which was very sparsely covered. It has taken time to train new agents and get them down on the border. The National Guard has made an immense difference.

With a majority controlled by the Dims we will be more likely to get another amnesty bill and though some of those anti-illegal immigration people voted GOP this election, they had sown so much enmity in the wake of their anger that there were many that they influenced who didn't. Those wishy-washy voters just hear and think about those things which are trumpeted the loudest.

I'm not advocating rolling over and acquiesing to every RINOs bill. I'm not saying the conservatives should support the GOP even when they go against our principles, I am saying we need to be reasonable and not just complain online but call and write all those who are against our positions and do it in numbers that they can't ignore. Be an activist, not a whiner, bitcher or complainer. MAKE the RINOs listen to us.

But in the end, if a RINO is actively against our core values and can't be changed we have to get rid of them while not poisoning all the water.

41 posted on 11/09/2006 8:36:41 AM PST by tiki
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To: rhombus
Social Security: We can't afford it, therefore it needs to be privatized over a period of time... oh wait

Good point, Social Security is the Dooms Day Machine. It will someday be the end of the world if left alone. If tampered with, it will destroy the world even sooner. FDR should be recognized for doing this to us.

42 posted on 11/09/2006 8:36:51 AM PST by Dixie Yooper (Ephesians 6:11)
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To: tiki

I don't buy the spin that the base stayed home. They may have held their noses, but they were there. We lost the center this time. And we truly lost the center because the center actually for the most part agrees with conservative principles, but unlike the hardcore base, they will consider voting for Democrats, which is precisely what they did.


43 posted on 11/09/2006 8:39:05 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: Dead Corpse
Trim off anything that doesn't fit within.

I gotta learn to slow down...

44 posted on 11/09/2006 8:46:06 AM PST by Dead Corpse (Anyone who needs to be persuaded to be free, doesn't deserve to be.)
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To: LS
but Flake's not getting athe message, and having Graf and Hayworth lose doesn't help send it.

And Hayworth's opponent tried to get to the right of him on immigration! But the problem is, Bush and the Dems will push amnesty almost immediately and pass it, the only thing stopping them from doing it last time was the House. There is now no way to stop this, Hayworth and Graf (and Hostettler, although his loss had nothing to do with immigration) are being used to say Americans support an amnesty. The Dems will let any of their folks who are in border districts vote against this, as they will easily pick up from Cannon/Flake/Pence all the votes they need. And once the amnesty is done, it can't be undone.

That makes the Republicans a permanent minority, and America goes the way of European socialist democracy. This was the second most important election of my life, right after 1980, and it went the wrong way. I'm not even going to think about the repercussions on Islamic terrorism.

45 posted on 11/09/2006 8:50:58 AM PST by justanotherfreeper
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To: goldstategop

--We need to return to conservatism and ignore the media's advice to go moderate. That is a sure path for the GOP to go the way of the Whigs.--


That sounds good, but the problems with conservatism are manifold:

1. The definition of conservative is too subjective? Who is a conservative? George Will? Bill Kristol, Pat Buchanan?

2. Reason for problem 1 is that conservatism is not a well-defined ideology. Conservatism has no manifesto; it has no blueprint for an ideal future to be attained. Conservatism does not do a good job of explaining why certain things are conservative and certain things are not, and it does an even worse job of explaining why conservative ideas are so much better.

3. Ordinary people like a clear goal. They look at political ideology like a homework assignment or a therapy of sorts ("If we do X, then we will attain Y, "Y" being a society as close to perfect as humanly possible). Maybe 3 is a problem for us because so many people who call themselves conservative are so interested in getting into a Heaven of the hereafter that they have lost sight of attaining at least a quasi-perfection here on earth.

4. What is the point of political victory when it is transient. The dems had power, then the republicans took it, then the dems took it back; in 2, 4 20 years the republicans (in some form) will take it back again ... ad nauseum, ad infinitum. I wish there was some way we could stop that damnable pendulum from swinging, so we could leave a LASTING political legacy for our descendants when we are gone.



46 posted on 11/09/2006 8:54:04 AM PST by ruffedgrouse (Think outside the box, dammit!)
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To: Impeach the Boy
I agree with you. I think some of the more includes the voters who don't bother to keep the feet to the fires throughout the term and then complain their rep/sen didn't do what they wanted.

Many of us send mixed messages. As an example, there was huge outrage over the Harriet Miers nomination and that outrage sent a clear message pretty fast. But I didn't see that same swelling of outrage and anger to get SS reform, health care reform, making tax cuts permanent and so on. What kind of message does that send to reps/sens? That we didn't care all that much about those issues? So if we are assessing blame, I think some of it needs to fall on our shoulders, if we aren't willing to hold their feet to the fire on EVERY issue, then we get what we get.

47 posted on 11/09/2006 9:02:28 AM PST by Ruth C
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To: meg88

The cupboard is pretty bare. Let's see... We have McCain who engineereed a 1st Amendment abridgement, and Rudy, a pro-abortion, pro-gay liberal. Talk about a Hobson's choice!


48 posted on 11/09/2006 9:05:03 AM PST by rashley (Rashley)
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To: goldstategop
We need to make it clear we are not against LEGAL immigration. But we are against amnesty of any kind for people entering our country ILLEGALLY. Its not fair to reward people with citizenship and its benefits who flout the most basic of our laws: a nation's right to control its borders and decide who gets to live here.

Amen.

And I think most Americans would agree with that, including Hispanics.

49 posted on 11/09/2006 9:05:59 AM PST by fortheDeclaration (Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth? (Gal.4:16))
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To: dfwgator
One way I see it is that Dean, Pelosi and Reid sold their souls to get this election win, by bringing in more centrist, even conservative candidates. They might have planted the seeds that ultimately result in their own doom within the party. And that would be a great result. This country is much better off if truly the Democratic Party can move back towards the center, where they were before the moonbats took over the party in the early 70s.

Agreed.

But they know that to be the majority Party they have to have a 'conserative' wing, as we have to have a 'liberal' wing in ours.

The key is not letting that wing effect policy, as we were letting the RHINO's do in the GOP.

50 posted on 11/09/2006 9:08:21 AM PST by fortheDeclaration (Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth? (Gal.4:16))
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