[Vigilanteman]

Northen Africa had a great civilization. Carthage was founded approximately 200 years before Rome and was more advanced in commerce, the arts and many other aspects of life before they decided it was a waste to spend to much for their military fighting on the other side of the Tyrhennian Sea. By the time their army reached the gates of Rome, their politicians managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

It didn't happen right away, but 14 years after fighting their way to the gates of Rome, Carthage was forced to defend themselves on their home turf on the Plains of Zama. The lost. They survived as a vassal state for another 56 years.

The rest of Africa fared a little better. Roman rule helped a little and even Carthage was rebuilt, getting another 750 years or so of life. Mali, Timbuktu and surrounding areas were building great cities and libraries at a time Europeans were largely prefeudal and illiterate. The decline of the civilizations of North Africa, the Indian Subcontinent and final destruction of Cathage for the final time in 698 a.d. all coincided with the introduction of the Religion of Peace. But I'm sure it was just a strange coincidence. < / sarcasm >

[arthurus]

The decline of the civilizations of North Africa, the Indian Subcontinent and final destruction of Cathage for the final time in 698 a.d. all coincided with the introduction of the Religion of Peace

This perhaps says something about Western Europe's future, and maybe also America's if America does not get serious about defending itself.

[GSlob]

For greater clarity, the life of society could be divided in three more or less autonomous areas [albeit they influence and interpenetrate one another]:
1. Economics;
2. Culture [everything man-made [excepting economics and sociology] in the life of that society - from national cuisine and architecture to song, dance and pottery shards - the stuff of ethnologists and archaeologists.
3. Sociological [i.e. civilization proper] aspects - how that society exists and self-perpetuates as a sociologically distinct entity, i.e. how its members relate to one another and to their groups in socially important situations. Sociological aspects of "national character", value systems [weltanschauung] and dominant religions come right here. This is merely an elaboration of Huntington's thesis - he used the whole religion [and not only its sociological side] as a convenient marker. Such an elaboration is perfectly justified - Huntington did not split the Western Civ into Protestant civ[s] and a Catholic Civ, after all.
Thus what you were talking about is mostly culture. Even a most primitive and barbaric Stone Age tribe could have a great dancer or a singer [or a totalitarian despotism could have good scientists], but this fact does not make that tribe a civilized one. As far as the civilization is concerned, one could argue that "at a time Europeans were largely prefeudal and illiterate" the Germanic tribes already posessed the rudiments of [sociologically superior] civilization.

[Criminal Number 18F]

Carthage was founded approximately 200 years before Rome and was more advanced in commerce, the arts and many other aspects of life

You don't say. Bit of a pity about their human infant sacrifices then.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

[ffusco]

North Africa is a product of Mediteranean civilization. Carthage and Egypt. Prior to the Arabization of Africa and the Muslimization of Africa these were all a part of Alexander the Great's greater Greece. South Africa has no great civilization so revisionist history and the culture of self-esteem tries to portray the Ancient Egyptians as dark skinned. Also Carthage was rightfully burned to the ground after 2 broken treaties with Rome and Hannibal's plunder of the Italian penninsula for about 20 years. Scipio the African finally defeated the savages and upon doing so returned to his farm.