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Saginaw man TASERed at City Council meeting[Michigan]
SAGINAW (WJRT) ^ | 07 Nov 2006 | Terry Camp

Posted on 11/10/2006 11:48:51 PM PST by FLOutdoorsman

Man refused to remove hat, struggled with police

Saginaw's City Council meeting featured a shocking incident Monday night. A Saginaw Valley State University student was TASERed after he became unruly after being asked to take off his baseball cap.

There is a new rule at Saginaw City Council meetings. Men are required to take their hats off. Evidently, they are pretty serious about this new rule.

The man was wearing a Los Angeles Dodgers hat. Officer Doug Stacer of the Saginaw Police Department asked him to remove the hat. The man raised his voice and did not remove the hat.

As the officer tried to grab the hat and then tried to grab the man, the man with the hat tried to kick Saginaw Police Chief Gerald Cliff, who was coming to help out.

At that point, Stacer TASERed the man, which sends 50,000 volts into a person's body. Cliff and Stacer got help from Saginaw County Sheriff Charles Brown hauling the man off to jail.

A few people stood up and watched the event; the meeting resumed a short time later.

The man faces possible charges of alarming and harassing conduct -- a misdemeanor -- and assaulting a police officer. That's a felony. He was not arraigned Tuesday.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government; US: Michigan
KEYWORDS: meeting; michigan; police; taser
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1 posted on 11/10/2006 11:48:53 PM PST by FLOutdoorsman
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To: FLOutdoorsman

holy moly, would be fun to send someone there in a burqa wouldn't it??? bwahahahahahaha


2 posted on 11/10/2006 11:51:23 PM PST by ferri (Be Politically Incorrect: Support the Constitution!)
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To: FLOutdoorsman
There is a new rule at Saginaw City Council meetings. Men are required to take their hats off. Evidently, they are pretty serious about this new rule.

What were they doing ...... playing the National Anthem?

;-)

3 posted on 11/10/2006 11:56:53 PM PST by beyond the sea ( Now that Nancy Pelosi Galore is in charge, it's never too late to start drinking.)
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To: FLOutdoorsman
Saginaw's City Council meeting featured a shocking incident Monday night.

LOL

4 posted on 11/10/2006 11:56:59 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: ferri

lol


5 posted on 11/10/2006 11:57:07 PM PST by beyond the sea ( Now that Nancy Pelosi Galore is in charge, it's never too late to start drinking.)
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To: FLOutdoorsman
Saginaw's City Council meeting featured a shocking incident Monday night

LOL ........ that Terry Camp is a real funny fellow.

;-)

6 posted on 11/10/2006 11:58:43 PM PST by beyond the sea ( Now that Nancy Pelosi Galore is in charge, it's never too late to start drinking.)
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To: FLOutdoorsman

Young adults frequently need a good dose of reality before they get a bit humble.

No doubt he is a spoiled bratt used to raising his voice, and running his mouth, towards adults.


7 posted on 11/11/2006 12:08:19 AM PST by MonroeDNA (Libertarians are more conservative than pubbies. Strictest interpretation of the constitution,)
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To: FLOutdoorsman

They could never enforce a law like that here in South Mississippi. A man without some type of ball cap is about the same thing as a pickup truck without your basic Redneck Package; ie, 4-wheel drive, gun rack with shotgun in the back window, 7-foot CB antenna, cracked windshield, Ole Miss front license plate with the the little Colonel on it and a rebel flag on the back bumper. And, if they are REALLY lucky, they have an ego tag on back with their name on it. That lucky name is somewhere between BUBBA and BUBBA 999. There would be more such tags, but they won't take more letters/numbers. : )


8 posted on 11/11/2006 1:01:31 AM PST by jmax
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To: jmax

There was a time in Mississippi and Alabama...when gentlemen did remove their hats upon entering a building. Somewhere over the past 60 years...we've lost our compass and map...to be being true southern gentlemen.

As for the Saginaw punk...I'd say if that jolt wasn't enough...then we may have to give him a second jolt. That should be enough to convince him on the appropriate behavior expected in public facilities. I've got no issue with this treatment.


9 posted on 11/11/2006 1:05:07 AM PST by pepsionice
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To: jmax

Dunno. I'm from the South and we wear caps and stuff. But, we remove them when we go into a store our a place to eat. Always, been that way.

I just thought the cops went too far. Ask him to leave and if he does not, remove him. No need to reach for his hat.

Just remove him from the court.


10 posted on 11/11/2006 1:05:48 AM PST by FLOutdoorsman
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To: FLOutdoorsman
I think the meeting was about a tax increase for more cops!
11 posted on 11/11/2006 1:10:21 AM PST by endthematrix ("If it's not the Crusades, it's the cartoons.")
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To: FLOutdoorsman

When gentlemanly respect doesn't work, fear should work. In the South, I seldom wore a hat for fear of being mistaken for one of those defined by 'hat'. Now, I wear a hat for warmth and will not be covered indoors.


12 posted on 11/11/2006 1:14:37 AM PST by dhuffman@awod.com (The conspiracy of ignorance masquerades as common sense.)
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To: ferri

>>holy moly, would be fun to send someone there in a burqa wouldn't it??? <<

The article clearly states that ONLY MEN are required to remove their hats.

Hey... isn't that sexist?


13 posted on 11/11/2006 1:53:29 AM PST by alexander_busek
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To: alexander_busek

you know? you have a point there!!! okay. so we send in a turban wearer. how about THAT? LOL


14 posted on 11/11/2006 2:00:29 AM PST by ferri (Be Politically Incorrect: Support the Constitution!)
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To: Lancey Howard

Revolting!


15 posted on 11/11/2006 2:00:31 AM PST by sine_nomine (No more RINO presidents. We need another Reagan.)
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To: beyond the sea

Electrifying!


16 posted on 11/11/2006 2:00:57 AM PST by sine_nomine (No more RINO presidents. We need another Reagan.)
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To: FLOutdoorsman

I was learning toward firing a warning shot then dropping the perp.

Really, this is so pathetic. Anyone can be removed without the taser.


17 posted on 11/11/2006 2:02:26 AM PST by sine_nomine (No more RINO presidents. We need another Reagan.)
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To: FLOutdoorsman

Wow. I feel safer now. I'm glad those brave police officers beat and tazed that citizen. Next thing you know, he'll have a baseball cap on BACKWARDS or something and they might have to shoot him!


18 posted on 11/11/2006 2:32:15 AM PST by Bon mots
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To: FLOutdoorsman
Well I have a problem with arbitrary rules that politicians decide we must live by in their presence.

So what about if they decide you have to wear a tie or jacket or whatever.

What about a veteran's military cap?

I just see this whole thing as petty people exercising their powers over the little people whom they are suppose to serve. This was a public hearing - open to the public. I hope he sues them.

There, how's that for a different take... ;-)

19 posted on 11/11/2006 2:37:34 AM PST by DB ()
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To: Bon mots

I think cops have come to rely to heavily on the tazer. We've even seen incidents where schoolchildren have been "tazed" for acting up.
50,000 volts has the potential to be deadly. Rules of deadly force should apply.
Better yet...outlaw the use of the tazer, since cops have not demonstrated the ability to use them responsibly.


20 posted on 11/11/2006 2:59:39 AM PST by gruntSGT (Can anyone help me tell me the difference between Lindsey Graham and John Kerry?)
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To: gruntSGT

to heavily= too heavily


21 posted on 11/11/2006 3:01:02 AM PST by gruntSGT (Can anyone help me tell me the difference between Lindsey Graham and John Kerry?)
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To: FLOutdoorsman

The rule is stupid to begin with. Doesn't Saginaw have anything more important to deal with? Is there no REAL crime for the donut eaters to worry about like maybe murders, robbery, assaults etc?
Yeah the ked is a moron but does the cop have ANY right to try to take the morons cap?


22 posted on 11/11/2006 3:06:24 AM PST by Joe Boucher (an enemy of islam)
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To: gruntSGT
Better yet...outlaw the use of the tazer, since cops have not demonstrated the ability to use them responsibly.

You make a valid point.
23 posted on 11/11/2006 3:33:05 AM PST by kinoxi
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To: MonroeDNA

My thoughts exactly. No manners, and if asked to act appropriately, the response is predictable.


24 posted on 11/11/2006 3:38:28 AM PST by Fzob (Why does this tag line keep showing up?)
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To: MonroeDNA

I think he got supersized on his dose of reality. They should give everybody tasers. So many in need, so few volts.

(kidding... kind of)


25 posted on 11/11/2006 3:43:38 AM PST by listenhillary (You can lead a man to reason, but you can't make him think)
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To: sine_nomine
........... one more and you win the prize.

;-)

26 posted on 11/11/2006 3:58:15 AM PST by beyond the sea ( Now that Nancy Pelosi Galore is in charge, it's never too late to start drinking.)
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To: FLOutdoorsman

Shades of Stalin; welcome to Amerika!


27 posted on 11/11/2006 3:58:33 AM PST by jwatzzzzz (jwatzzzzz)
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To: beyond the sea

Thanks.


28 posted on 11/11/2006 4:01:05 AM PST by sine_nomine (No more RINO presidents. We need another Reagan.)
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To: FLOutdoorsman

Oh no! They've created a potential terrorist.


29 posted on 11/11/2006 4:13:17 AM PST by MrBambaLaMamba (Buy 'Allah' brand urinal cakes - If you can't kill the enemy at least you can piss on their god)
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To: FLOutdoorsman

Oh no! They've created a potential terrorist.


30 posted on 11/11/2006 4:13:19 AM PST by MrBambaLaMamba (Buy 'Allah' brand urinal cakes - If you can't kill the enemy at least you can piss on their god)
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To: FLOutdoorsman
The man was wearing a Los Angeles Dodgers hat

Well, that explains everything.........

31 posted on 11/11/2006 4:19:47 AM PST by RckyRaCoCo ("When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk!")
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To: FLOutdoorsman
I'll bet he appears in court, hat in hand.

I have a vision ala Mommie Dearest.... No ballcaps, ever !

32 posted on 11/11/2006 4:25:22 AM PST by csvset (Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil & inhumane)
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To: FLOutdoorsman

Anyone remember the first year of the Sopranos when Tony told the punk in the restaurant to remove his hat.

My fav scene ever.


33 posted on 11/11/2006 4:35:06 AM PST by Recon Dad (Marine Spec Ops Dad)
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To: traviskicks
Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting
34 posted on 11/11/2006 4:37:22 AM PST by 383rr (Those who choose security over liberty deserve neither- GUN CONTROL=SLAVERY)
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To: MrBambaLaMamba
Oh no! They've created a potential terrorist.

More likely an actual litigant. And properly so, I think; a misuse of government power all the way, unless there's something the report doesn't tell us.

35 posted on 11/11/2006 4:44:52 AM PST by Grut
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To: FLOutdoorsman

Who would want to live in Michigan?


36 posted on 11/11/2006 4:53:50 AM PST by D.P.Roberts
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To: FLOutdoorsman
So It took an officer, the police chief and then an additional sherriffs deputy & a Tazer gun to remove one guy with a ball cap and an attitude?

God help them if someones grandmother jay- walks they'll probably have to call out the national guard.

I'm not that old ( 40 ) I can remember a time when a police officer would have gently tapped his night stick in his hand and stared the punk down, then removed him. Now everyone of these cops thinks he's on a t.v. show and has 50 special forces gadgets strapped to his out of shape ass. They don't possess the self confidence judgement and determination of the past, instead they reach for the weapon and use it without any descretion, then brag about it as if they saved the world.

37 posted on 11/11/2006 4:57:07 AM PST by Kakaze (Exterminate Islamofacism and Apologize for nothing.....except not doing it sooner!)
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To: Joe Boucher
Yes, Saginaw does have bigger problems, and Saginaw's city council is one of them.

They also have drive-by shootings, increasing gang violence, and a real big bad entrenched Democrat voter base. The Mayor and most of the city council are Democrats, Madam Mayor is also a woman of color and she apparently asked this young man to remove his hat. I guess his mama never taught him to remove his hat in the presence of a lady.

I heard this report on the radio but no where can I find any information on the young man in question - I wonder if he was white?

The sheriff who was there and helped with the situation is a Democrat and also worked against CCW becoming the law in this state.

38 posted on 11/11/2006 5:13:57 AM PST by Mrs. P (I am most seriously displeased. - Lady Catherine de Bourg)
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To: gruntSGT
"Better yet...outlaw the use of the tazer, since cops have not demonstrated the ability to use them responsibly."

What the fudgesicle…?

We might as well outlaw pistols too. SOME cops have also – not demonstrated the ability to use them responsibly. Plus cars, and Billy Clubs, and handcuffs and…

39 posted on 11/11/2006 5:17:21 AM PST by Dacus943
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To: gruntSGT

...and Pepper Spay, and Police Dogs, and Tear Gas, and Physical Restraints, and Traffic Tickets, and Warrants, and my favorite - the Cops that direct traffic for funerals and weddings. Talk about demonsratable inability to provide a smooth flow of traffic. Oh… and speed traps, and DWI tests…


40 posted on 11/11/2006 5:26:49 AM PST by Dacus943
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To: D.P.Roberts

"Who would want to live in Michigan?"

I would, and thank you for asking.


41 posted on 11/11/2006 8:40:12 AM PST by Highway55
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To: Mrs. P

Seems this may take the focus off real problems then.
Thanks


42 posted on 11/11/2006 9:04:18 AM PST by Joe Boucher (an enemy of islam)
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To: sine_nomine
Anyone can be removed without the taser.

The tasering was in response to kicking at the officer, not for refusing to leave.

43 posted on 11/11/2006 9:22:09 AM PST by ASA Vet (3.03)
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To: DB
I have a problem with arbitrary rules that politicians decide we must live

That's what politicians do.

If the people aren't happy with those politicians they can remove them.

People have the government they deserve.

44 posted on 11/11/2006 9:26:04 AM PST by ASA Vet (3.03)
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To: ASA Vet
Hat on? Hat off?

It's an interesting question. Is the hat off thing more east coast? I live in Oregon and Washington and I *never* see people take their hats off. I see hats on in theatres, restaurants, church. I think they do make you take your hat off in court, but I haven't been there for 15 years so it may have changed too.

Is taking your hat off when, for instance, you sit down to eat a "old school" manners thing, or is it a "eastern" custom that never took hold in the west?

45 posted on 11/11/2006 10:02:04 AM PST by Jack Black
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To: ASA Vet
The tasering was in response to kicking at the officer, not for refusing to leave.

Yes and the kicking was in response to the beating which was in response to him swatting away the hand of the LEO who tried to take his hat off for him. The correct response, for the LEO who supposedly is trained and professional, would have been to inform the citizen he was going to be arrested for failing to follow the "no hats" rule and they attempt to peacefully arrest him.

He did not do this but acted like a common thug.

46 posted on 11/11/2006 10:04:32 AM PST by Jack Black
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To: Jack Black
As the officer tried to grab the hat and then tried to grab the man, the man with the hat tried to kick Saginaw Police Chief Gerald Cliff, who was coming to help out.

Guess I missed the "beating" part.

Seems even the officers attempt to "grab the man" was a failure as it was described as "tried."

47 posted on 11/11/2006 10:21:51 AM PST by ASA Vet (3.03)
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To: Jack Black
Is taking your hat off when, for instance, you sit down to eat a "old school" manners thing, or is it a "eastern" custom that never took hold in the west?

I think in this case it was a matter of the Mayor and her fellow council members wanting to command more respect for themselves and the city government, and make young people understand civility and things like that. Too bad this kid started getting feisty, if he had just quietly gone out he probably wouldn't have been roughed up - especially with a whole room full of bleeding heart liberals looking on. Unless he was white.

48 posted on 11/11/2006 10:31:40 AM PST by Mrs. P (I am most seriously displeased. - Lady Catherine de Bourg)
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To: Mrs. P
Unless he was white

He wasn't.

49 posted on 11/11/2006 11:01:15 AM PST by ASA Vet (3.03)
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To: FLOutdoorsman; Abram; albertp; AlexandriaDuke; Alexander Rubin; Allosaurs_r_us; Americanwolf; ...
Libertarian ping! To be added or removed from my ping list freepmail me or post a message here.
50 posted on 11/11/2006 1:00:11 PM PST by traviskicks (http://www.neoperspectives.com/optimism_nov8th.htm)
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