Europe's Demographic Doom

The Economist ^ | 13 Nov 06 | Posted by: Economist.com

[A. Pole]

Creating a child is not stunted because the welfare state makes people more secure. People don't produce children because they no longer believe in the promise of the future. They don't believe the future holds promise because they cannot innovate and produce a brighter future for their progeny-- a socialist state is not accommodating to this.

How do you explain the fact that the reproduction rate in Eastern Europe collapsed AFTER market reforms and dismantling of Communism?

[A. Pole]

A similar proposal was made by John Zmirak in his article in The American Conservative. I strongly recommend this article.

Thanks. I posted it now.

[steveyp]

How much hope do those people have in the Russian Kleptocracy now? Communism can be rather persuasive when it comes to reproduction-- they have total control. Not even the Europeans can be compared with complete command/control states.

A better counter example to my thesis would be China.

[A. Pole]

A better counter example to my thesis would be China.

Chine is a complicated example - they have one child policy.

[Feldkurat_Katz]

How do you explain the fact that the reproduction rate in Eastern Europe collapsed AFTER market reforms and dismantling of Communism?

There is no single reason. On the economic side, people are consuming more, but there is also greater insecurity, so people who are one paycheck away from bankruptcy are playing it safe by not having children.

Another factor is the hedonistic lifestyle, promoted by the media.

[GOP_1900AD]

The problem is affirmative action and micromanagement of hiring by governments. If there weren't so many women in the work force, wages would be higher, and it would be easier to raise a family the right way, leading to more kids, etc, etc.

[steve-b]

How do you explain the fact that the reproduction rate in Eastern Europe collapsed AFTER market reforms and dismantling of Communism?

This is a "fact" not in evidence. I recall Heinlein's observation in Expanded Universe to the effect that basic logistics indicated that Moscow simply did not have the population levels cited in the official statistics. One wonders how widespread such divergences between official and actual demographics were....

[Rummenigge]

Well we talked about innovations didn't we ?

Innovation is 1.) an idea 2.) the power to realize it 3.) a market for the product...

..so nobleprices don't count. (what a quaint idea - noble prices are not given to people by objective criteria but by a commity of elder noble price holders. That and american universities tend to buy out the guys on the list for the next price - many prices in the field of technology go to america but to foreign researchers - then you got the (wo)man and you know the idea - but there's still no innovation)

Patents we got more then u guys - at least if we count them per head and refer to germany.

Scientific start ups you got more - but they don't live that long (look at the biotec ruins of raleigh)

So maybe in the end there's pretty much innovation taking place in the US. But there's still enough in germany to make shiny products for the american market.

[Rummenigge]

... and the wine is still much better then that cali stuff. even if they ask all your money for a bottle from napa valley.

[Rummenigge]

*clap* *clap* *clap*

[patton]

So...how's that entire DaimlerChrysler deal working out for you? ;)

[Rummenigge]

I guess it wasn't a bad idea - at least not innovation wise. The chrysler guys were very innovative (Voyager beeing the first really mass produced van) so daimler made a good buy - oops sorry merger. The other ideas Schrempp had were let's say 'second best' ideas - like the mitsubishi deal and that whole smart story.

But DCX IS very innovative - if you look at the A-Class e.g. Plus they finance a lot of innovation by their subcontractors like Bosch, Dürr and others.

[patton]

I have been making jokes for years, about what the Germans fail to conquer, they come back a generation later, and buy.

[Rummenigge]

conquering is sooo vulgar... ask the chineese about their plans with taiwan.

[A. Pole]

This is a "fact" not in evidence. [...] One wonders how widespread such divergences between official and actual demographics were....

Are you saying that the statistics are false or that do not exist?

Moscow simply did not have the population levels cited in the official statistics

What about Poland and other East European countries? Did they fake the statistics too?

[Vicomte13]

Hein...conquering has its merits...
(But for it to work, you've GOT to hold Moscow!)

[Sirloin]

Wait a minute! Do you support child penalty tax?

No, I don't. I also agree with you that having a stable population is a good thing, but it is something that shouldn't be socially engineered through taxes.

My apologies for the late reply.

[Cacique]

bfl

[FreedomPoster]

>>It does mean that similar demographic patters are happening in the US as in Europe.

The difference between Catholic Hispanics and Muslim North Africans / Arabs / Turks is pretty profound.

[FreedomPoster]

I wasn’t aware that the Kaiser and the Prussians were Nazis. You learn so much at Free Republic.