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Shuler's(D) election means end of quest to finish 'Road to Nowhere'
Fayetteville Observer, AP ^ | November 18, 2006

Posted on 11/18/2006 5:43:33 PM PST by Dane

Shuler's election means end of quest to finish 'Road to Nowhere'

The Associated Press CHARLOTTE, N.C.

After an election that removed its chief backer from the halls of Congress, the Road to Nowhere may once and for all be going nowhere.

Heath Shuler, an incoming Democratic congressman who will represent far western North Carolina, opposes spending hundreds of millions of dollars to build the road through an undeveloped section of Great Smoky Mountains National Park. The road would be a replacement for a state highway flooded by construction of Fontana Dam in the 1940s.

And that likely means the end of a project that was backed by Rep. Charles Taylor, the powerful Republican incumbent Shuler ousted earlier this month.

"We've said from the very beginning that we think the road has the appropriate name," Shuler told The Associated Press. "We don't need to build that road. The appropriation to build that road is now a dead issue."

The issue is near to Shuler's heart. He grew up in Bryson City, at the eastern end of the planned road, which would to follow the north shore of Fontana Lake. A 1943 agreement between North Carolina and the federal government included a promise to build it, provided Congress appropriated the money.

Only seven of 42 miles were completed before high costs and environmental concerns halted construction in 1972. Supporters of the road have continued to lobby for its completion, saying it would give residents forced out by construction of the dam access to family cemeteries and homesteads. The National Park Service now pays to transport those people across Fontana Lake by boat for their annual cemetery decoration days.

"Heath Shuler should be ashamed of himself," said Linda Hogue, a leader in the North Shore Road Association and an organizer of the boat trips. Hogue said she hopes a National Park Service study of whether to finish the road will continue despite Shuler's opposition.

"I hope Mr. Shuler is not as powerful as he thinks he is," she said. "I hope that someone in Washington can hold the line. It's only fair to let the process play out."

Taylor, a member of the House Appropriations Committee, revived conversation about the road in 2000, when he included $16 million to resume construction in the federal budget. That kicked off a lengthy study conducted by the National Park Service, which has included multiple public hearings and issued a draft environmental impact report early this year.

The report identified five possible alternatives for resolving the long-running debate, including doing no further work on the road and making a $52 million payment to Swain County to buyout the 1943 agreement; and extending the road to the dam _ a project that comes with a projected price tag of some $600 million.

In a break from tradition, the park service did not identify a "preferred alternative" in its draft report; many observers have speculated that the agency was waiting to see whether Taylor would win his re-election fight with Shuler. The park service has called the settlement with Swain County the "environmentally preferred" alternative.

Bob Miller, a spokesman for Great Smoky Mountains National Park, said the final decision about what alternative to recommend is now in the hands of new Interior Secretary Dirk Kempthorne and new National Park Service Director Mary A. Bomar. Both, he said, "must be brought up to speed with a lot of issues across the country. So we do not know when they'll render a decision."

Even if the park service came down in favor of building the road, Congress would have to appropriate money for construction. And that seems unlikely with Shuler _ and not Taylor _ representing the district.

Shuler said he intends to push for the settlement _ an option that has been endorsed by the Swain County board of commissioners, North Carolina Gov. Mike Easley, Tennessee Sen. Lamar Alexander and the Washington-based taxpayer watchdog group Taxpayers for Common Sense.

Alexander has called completion of the road _ which would cross one of the largest roadless tracts of land in the eastern United States _ a "terrible idea." Easley has said almost "any construction activity on the north shore of Fontana Lake threatens the delicate balance of streams, woodlands and wetlands that we in North Carolina are working diligently to protect and preserve."

Shuler, a former NFL quarterback who led Swain County High School to three state titles in the late 1980s, said during his campaign that he often went to a quiet spot near where the road dead-ends to mull major life decisions. It was there that he decided to attend college at the University of Tennessee and to propose to his wife Nikol.

Shuler said he would like to see money spent to improve the pontoon boat service that takes families across Fontana Lake to the hard-to-reach family cemeteries.

"I sympathize, and my heart goes out to the people that have their families out there," he said. "We need to do a much better job of transportation into Great Smoky Mountains National Park for the people that have cemeteries to visit. We need a fund to make it more accessible."

David Monteith, a Swain County commissioner who supports finishing the road, said Shuler's action on the issue will determine whether he lives up to a campaign promise to bring "mountain values" back to Washington.

"We have a legal binding contract signed by the federal government to fulfill that road," Monteith said. "Once Heath Shuler takes the oath of office, he's got no other choice _ if he's going to have any integrity or mountain values or whatever _ but to honor this contract. If he does not, his mountain values have run out the door."


TOPICS: Government; US: North Carolina
KEYWORDS: shuler
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To: billbears

My dad grew up in Andrews, North Carolina...his parents retired to Robbinsville. My aunt, his sister was married to a postmaster who passed away of a tumor in the mid 1980's, she was still alive the last I knew a few years ago...perhaps you knew the Carvers. Blaine was the post master in question and Frances was his wife.

My dad passed away at Natahala(lived in his second wife's family homestead near the high school)3 years ago this thanks- giving so your posting brings it all home to me. I lived for a year in Andrews when I was still a boy, a year after my parents divorced. The whole mountain country side was wonderful!


51 posted on 11/18/2006 7:40:45 PM PST by mdmathis6 (Save the Republic! Mess with the polling firms' heads!)
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To: padre35

H.R. 2088: Veterans' Heritage Firearms Act of 2005

A bill in US Congress: To provide an amnesty period during which veterans and their family members can register certain firearms in the National Firearms ...
www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h109-2088 - 23k -


52 posted on 11/18/2006 7:46:09 PM PST by Richard-SIA ("The natural progress of things is for government to gain ground and for liberty to yield" JEFFERSON)
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To: Dane
But I forgot, you like nancy pelosi and heath shuler, know what is better for the displaced families of Swain county, nevermind.

LOL, I do so enjoy conversing with party faithful..

The report identified five possible alternatives for resolving the long-running debate, including doing no further work on the road and making a $52 million payment to Swain County to buyout the 1943 agreement; and extending the road to the dam _ a project that comes with a projected price tag of some $600 million.

So to 'fulfill' a promise made by a Democrat over 70 years ago, you suggest we just plop down another $600 million (which will end up being over $1 billion by the time it's said and done) and in the process destroy some of the most beautiful land this side of Heaven, that BTW is already a national park. Land that I seriously doubt you've ever seen. And because a Democrat is against it, it must necessarily be a good thing to be for it, right?

There are literally thousands of gravesites, and some of those folks I'm related to, in the mountains of NC that are unreachable by road. But it's land that doesn't need a road. I myself have walked to some of these gravesites (not the ones mentioned in the article but kin buried between Franklin and Murphy). Using a GPS and a map just to find where you believe they may be. It's land that's undisturbed. Step out in some areas and you're in the 1700s-1800s within a few feet. It's almost as if you can hear your ancestors walking and talking beside you. Now if that makes me a liberal or some sort of nut in your eyes, then so be it. I've reached a point in my life that I don't need nor want to have everything paved over. Some things and locales supersede progress. And this area is one of them

53 posted on 11/18/2006 8:08:51 PM PST by billbears (Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it. --Santayana)
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To: Dane

Absolutely one of the most beautiful places anywhere. I've still got some pictures stashed somewhere of that area, including one rather spectacular shot of what I think is the Fontana Dam from about a thousand feet above it. I thought I was on US 129 when I got the picture, but that map seems to indicate I would've been on another highway, or else I wasn't looking down on Fontana Dam.

I see Cades Cove mentioned there too...my mother-in-law married her second husband up there (he's originally from Oak Ridge, his father worked at the Y-12 plant).

}:-)4


54 posted on 11/18/2006 8:10:50 PM PST by Moose4 (Baa havoc, and let slip the sheep of war.)
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To: Torie

I wouldn't give them any more than whatever is standard for national parks.


55 posted on 11/18/2006 8:17:37 PM PST by AntiGuv ("..I do things for political expediency.." - Sen. John McCain on FOX News)
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To: Dane

Odd that a former NFL quarterback would become a scumbag Democrat.


56 posted on 11/18/2006 8:22:40 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: kylaka

"Ah, The Joyce Kilmer service area on the New Jersey Turnpike.... one of Jim McGreevey's favorite places."

Oh geez!


57 posted on 11/18/2006 9:12:34 PM PST by dljordan
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To: CheyennePress
He's right on this road. I just can't believe the man is in office.

I think that fact that Shuler is on the right side of this issue and the GOP representative was wrong, is a sad commentary on today's GOP.

58 posted on 11/18/2006 9:18:36 PM PST by dfwgator
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To: Richard-SIA



Thanks Richard-SIA


59 posted on 11/18/2006 9:21:07 PM PST by padre35 (We are surrounded, that simplifies our problem Chesty Puller)
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To: dfwgator
Nonsense he is dead wrong and taking the wrong track on the issue.

It is a sad day when supposedly freedom loving responsible people will simply write off a entire community because well, the flowers are pretty.

You have no clue why shuler is doing what he is doing.

It isn't because of his principles or even the money.
60 posted on 11/18/2006 9:24:38 PM PST by padre35 (We are surrounded, that simplifies our problem Chesty Puller)
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To: Dane
Regular Season Stats
  PASSING   RUSHING   RECEIVING   FUMBLES
Year AGE Team LG GP ATT CMP PCT YDS YPA TD INT SKD SKY RAT RAT+   ATT YDS AVG TD LNG   REC YDS AVG TD LNG   TOT OWR OPR YDS TD
1994 22 WAS NFL 11 265 120 45.3 1658 6.26 10 12 12 83 59.6 76   26 103 4.0 0 26   0 0 0.0 0 0   3 0 0 -9 0
1995 23 WAS NFL 7 125 66 52.8 745 5.96 3 7 13 76 55.6 70   18 57 3.2 0 13   0 0 0.0 0 0   1 1 0 0 0
1996 24 WAS NFL 1 0 0 0.0 0 0.00 0 0 0 0 0.0 0   1 0 0.0 0 0   0 0 0.0 0 0   1 0 0 -14 0
1997 25 NOR NFL 10 203 106 52.2 1288 6.34 2 14 21 132 46.6 60   22 38 1.7 1 8   0 0 0.0 0 0   8 3 0 -20 0
4 NFL Season Totals   29 593 292 49.2 3691 6.22 15 33 46 291 54.3     67 198 3.0 1 0   0 0 0.0 0 0   13 4 0 -43 0

Heath Shuler

46 interceptions, 15 touchdowns. Pathetic.

61 posted on 11/18/2006 9:31:23 PM PST by John Lenin (The most dangerous place for a child in America is indeed in its mother's womb)
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make that 33 intercepts, still pathetic ...


62 posted on 11/18/2006 9:32:48 PM PST by John Lenin (The most dangerous place for a child in America is indeed in its mother's womb)
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To: dljordan
Gimmie a break.

I've often wondered why they would name a rest stop on the NJTPK after Joyce Kilmer, as opposed to something like a park, or a river or anything more befitting the world class poet that he was. I mean, well, Joyce Kilmer and Howard Stern (who also has a rest stop named after him) are not exactly in the same league, are they? I don't know about you, but if I'm taking a wiz, I'm about 50 times more likely to be thinking "Howard Stern" than "Joyce Kilmer".

63 posted on 11/18/2006 9:42:18 PM PST by kylaka
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To: padre35
It is a sad day when supposedly freedom loving responsible people will simply write off a entire community because well, the flowers are pretty.

So 'freedom loving responsible people' are now defined by those that want to spend over $600 million to build a road that will increase traffic in an area that doesn't need it just to visit some gravesites (even though a workable solution is already in place for less than a tenth of the cost). And it has nothing to do with 'pretty flowers' and more to do with holding onto one of the last bastions of this state, my state, that hasn't been paved over in the name of progress. I'm no environmentalist but to watch what has happened in the mountains of NC in the past 15 years in the name of 'progress' is sickening. 'Progress' is destroying my heritage. 'Progress' is doing its best to destroy the culture of the mountains. So frankly 'progress' and 'promises' by Democrats 70 years ago can take a flying leap as it pertains to this road

You have no clue why shuler is doing what he is doing.

Considering this is a divisive issue within that community and considering Shuler grew up in Bryson City and attended the high school that is located within a couple hundred yards where the Road to Nowhere enters Bryson City, I'd err on the side of caution as to why he is doing this. He, and others, have heard this debate their whole life. Somebody popping in at the end of 2006 with their 'wisdom' about this road cannot even begin to understand the complexities behind this issue.

It isn't because of his principles or even the money.

As if Charles Taylor had principles. Right. Oh I do forget he had the right letter by his name so he must have principles....

64 posted on 11/18/2006 9:43:05 PM PST by billbears (Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it. --Santayana)
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To: Congressman Billybob
This is obviously a subject you are knowledgeable about, what is your position on 'The Road to Nowhere'?
65 posted on 11/18/2006 9:51:23 PM PST by Lucius Cornelius Sulla (I went down in 1964 for Barry Goldwater with all flags flying! This is just a blip!)
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To: billbears
So, those families should just be written off? That blather in the thread starter about "ferry services are available" is bunk, instead of fixing the problem, the Fedgov simply pushed the problem down the road with no solutions in sight.

Merely let's wait for them to die off, or we can pay off the county commissioners.

If the fedgov had done the right thing 30 years ago the road would have been on budget. Of course they didn't and now they have accomplices in there non action.

Your state? Really so I don't live in NC, I've never been to Fontana Dam, or hiked the Nantahala never went to the endless forest service hearings. Or talked to the forest service employees to get their take on it?

Shuler hasn't lived in WNC for years, he lived in Knoxville, were he has his real estate business.

I would not call that road "progress" at all, it was poorly thought out and the gurantees were never really satisfied.


For myself, a statement by Shuler that basically tells those folks to go pound sand isn't acceptable at all.


I live in WNC, I know some of those families whose land got submerged to build that dam.
66 posted on 11/18/2006 9:58:54 PM PST by padre35 (We are surrounded, that simplifies our problem Chesty Puller)
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To: Dane
And also who is going to pay the lawyer bills when a pontoon boat sinks.

Dude, if you're that worried about the hazards of a half-mile journey across a man-made lake in a pontoon boat, you've really got to learn to live a little.

67 posted on 11/18/2006 10:55:04 PM PST by ReignOfError
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To: billbears
I don't know. I'm torn on this one.

Yeah, me too, though I don't have the personal connection you do. I mean, a promise is a promise, and these folks were clearly screwed 63 years ago. On the other hand, sticking to the letter of the promise won't undo that. A $600 milion road through a rare relatively pristine place strikes me as a Faustian bargain -- make it easier to get somewhere, but then find out that it's not the same place, because some a-holes built a big road through it.

Also I can't see the memorial services lasting much longer (maybe 25-30 years) before the next generation just drops it off altogether.

I don't know about that. "Old times there are not forgotten," as the song goes. But it'll drop off to a few families and some historic preservation enthusiasts. I'd never thought of this before, but it would be a pretty decent Boy Scout project to take on maintaining remote cemeteries and assisting families in getting to them -- it would combine boating and camping, public service, and a potent history lesson on both the creation of the lake and the folks who were there before.

As a bit of an aside, I love walking through old cemeteries. Aside from the fact that they're a quiet place to gather your thoughts, every stone represents a life, and every life has a story. If you know the story, you can take your kids for what these days is called a "teachable moment." If you don't know the story, you can let your imagination run wild. Older and rural cemeteries, in particular, can really drive home in a visceral, emotional way how hard life was for our forebears. It's all there, if you know how to read it.

In one old (1820s to present) cemetery near me that I wander around every now and then, there's one family with a mother and father, and half a dozen children, of whom only one survived to adulthood, and then just barely (I think he was 24).

Another section is walled off, and there's a monument that simply reads "Marble Hill Sunday School." No date. I haven't been able to find out more about it. There is a stone for someone age 19, name too weathered to read. And all around are 20-30 graves, with headstones and footstones with only names -- no other information -- placed between two and four feet apart. I surmise that there was a fire, and the 19-year-old was the teacher.

The family of a friend of mine has a former dairy farm, now run by my friend's sister as an organic produce farm, in East Tennessee. I go there when I can, and should make the time to do so more often. On the property is a little family plot, and it tells a story, too. The markers date back to the 1840s or so, and the earliest ones are the ornate product of a skilled carver. In the 1860s and 1870s, the stones become homemade and more crude, because war and Reconstruction stripped away the time and money for such luxuries. More important to care for the living and leave the dead to God.

Every stone is meant to mark a life, and was placed by someone who thought that life was worth remembering. Every life has a story, and most people take most of their stories from this world with them when they leave. Every cemetery is a novel, if you have the right kind of mind to read it and to fill in the missing details from imagination.

And because of the view up there I'm not sure I'd want a road running through that area. I don't want it turning into another 441 (that road between Cherokee and Gatlinburg).

Between Miami and Lake City, TN, actually. I bring that up not to be a jerk, but because 441 from east of Atlanta, north to NC and south to FL, used to be one of my favorite roads, and it's losing its charm for me. Most of its stretch is now a 4-lane divided highway, not quite as sterile and soulless as the Interstates, but moving in that direction. A chain convenience store is hardly an acceptable substitute for the roadside stands selling boiled peanuts and apples that taste like real apples, and the stands are becoming harder and harder to find.

Franklin has been overrun, Murphy's just hanging on last time I checked, and Bryson City is one of the last (even though they have filmed a few movies up there)

Murphy lost a big cash cow when they caught Eric Rudolph, and all the Feds -- who had to be clothed and housed, after all, providing local jobs -- split town.

It's a tough if not impossible choice for any small town, and I've seen towns come to grief by going either way. If you turn away big roads, new businesses and corporate tourist dollars, the young folks move away to look for jobs and the town withers. If you embrace big roads, new businesses and corporate tourist dollars, you become another Pigeon Forge or Cherokee, or just another truck stop on the way to them.

68 posted on 11/18/2006 11:57:31 PM PST by ReignOfError
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To: Dane
There's no such thing as a "Federal Contract" you putz.

The decisions of one Congress are not binding on any future Congress.

L

69 posted on 11/19/2006 12:11:48 AM PST by Lurker ("A liberal thinks they can sleep in and someone will cover their lame ass."Ted Nugent)
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To: Dane

This appears to be a very emotional issue for a lot of people, but seriously -- if these folks get their road because FDR made their grandparents a promise, then I sure as h*ll want a balanced budget, which FDR promised my grandparents and the rest of the country in the 1932 campaign. Kind of like the "middle class tax cut" in the 1992 campaign.


70 posted on 11/19/2006 12:24:08 AM PST by Burma Jones
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To: padre35
It is a sad day when supposedly freedom loving responsible people will simply write off a entire community because well, the flowers are pretty.

There is no "entire community" being written off here, at least not in the 21st century. The valley was flooded in 1943, the residents were relocated, and this isn't about a road to bring economic opportunity.

The issue is how best to allow people to visit their ancestral homes and their kinfolks' graves. Another goal is to preserve the character of those places as much as practical.

Every so often, I drive up to Mount Airy, Georgia, where my grandmother was born. It's a special place to me, and all the old family stories come back to me most sharply when I'm there. The home site is now part of a state park, because my great-grandmother deeded it to the state in her will.

The house was in poor repair, and her kids and grandkids would have stayed there to keep it going -- that's why she gave it away. They'd all moved on to their own lives in various cities, so she cut the cord.

Just down the road is the Grandview cemetery. Three generations of my family are there, and I will be one of the fourth generation. "There" is kind of a philosophical question, actually. My g-gmother is buried there, alongside her husband and firstborn child. Most of the rest of us decided to be cremated and scattered, but with a marker placed in the family plot.

The family plot wasn't that big to begin with, so we decided to stack the headstones (along the surface of the ground; I'm not talking about treating them like Legos) to save space.

Some future anthropologist will be really puzzled when he finds one grave in the usual proportions, another, then another, then a row of headstones arrayed one above the other (y-axis). They might think that we were buried one on top of the other (z-axis). I kinda like to think that I will confuse future anthropologists.

But I digress.

After that visit, I stop by the local school, still standing and strong, which has my g-gfather's name on the cornerstone (he was on the town council, and later served as mayor) and where my g-gmother worked as teacher and principal for three decades.

These are dear places to me. They take me a little effort to get to. And I would chain myself to a bulldozer before I would let someone carve up the countryside to build a gazillion-dollar highway to them and pave over some of it to make it easier to get to the sliver that's left. You might as well put neon beer signs on the Parthenon, fly Golden Arches over the Grand Canyon, or rent out the Ellipse for BMX races.

71 posted on 11/19/2006 12:45:17 AM PST by ReignOfError
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To: ReignOfError
Just down the road is the Grandview cemetery. Three generations of my family are there, and I will be one of the fourth generation. "There" is kind of a philosophical question, actually. My g-gmother is buried there, alongside her husband and firstborn child. Most of the rest of us decided to be cremated and scattered, but with a marker placed in the family plot.

And I bet you there is a road to the cemetary, isn't there.

72 posted on 11/19/2006 2:19:31 AM PST by Dane ("Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall" Ronald Reagan, 1987)
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To: dfwgator
I think that fact that Shuler is on the right side of this issue and the GOP representative was wrong, is a sad commentary on today's GOP.

Why is fullfilling a promise being "wrong".

JMO, your above italicized shows your true mindset.

73 posted on 11/19/2006 2:22:05 AM PST by Dane ("Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall" Ronald Reagan, 1987)
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To: ReignOfError

BTW, if you were true to your intentions about these oeople on Fontana lake not having this road, why don't you show the way and having the road going to your family cemetary torn up and replaced by a trail maintained by the Boy Scouts.


74 posted on 11/19/2006 2:33:18 AM PST by Dane ("Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall" Ronald Reagan, 1987)
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To: Dane
BTW, if you were true to your intentions about these oeople on Fontana lake not having this road

Okay. Leaving aside the fact that you're almost completely incomprehensible, let's move on.

Why don't you show the way and having the road going to your family cemetary torn up

That's a good point, except for the part where you missed every atom of the point and couldn't find the point with both hands and a flashlight if it had a bell tied to its ass.

I didn't talk about tearing up any roads, because the whole point -- have you been paying attention at all? -- is that there is no road. The question is whether or not to to build a new road. At a cost of six hundred million dollars in federal money.You could give each of the aggrieved families a million bucks in tax-free cash, and that would be far less expensive.

If the folks living on the banks of Fontana Lake are really, sincerely tied to that patch of land, then they can adapt. If not, they can take a check.

75 posted on 11/19/2006 2:53:05 AM PST by ReignOfError
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To: padre35

If they're going to do that, the $52 million ought to go to the families.


76 posted on 11/19/2006 3:03:19 AM PST by McGavin999 (Republicans take out our trash, Democrats re-elect theirs)
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To: ReignOfError
You could give each of the aggrieved families a million bucks in tax-free cash, and that would be far less expensive.

I think there is something like 1,300 familes and at a mil apiece that would be 1.3 billion dollars.

Building the road that was promised would be cheaper.

77 posted on 11/19/2006 3:43:46 AM PST by Dane ("Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall" Ronald Reagan, 1987)
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To: ReignOfError
I didn't talk about tearing up any roads, because the whole point -- have you been paying attention at all? -- is that there is no road.

JMO, your attitude about the Fontana lakes families is basically, "screw you, I've got my road to my family cemetary, but you can't have one".

Sounds kinda of limosine liberalish to me.

78 posted on 11/19/2006 3:46:43 AM PST by Dane ("Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall" Ronald Reagan, 1987)
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To: Lancey Howard
Odd that a former NFL quarterback would become a scumbag Democrat.
Back in the Dark Ages Sports Illustrated had an article on the psychological profile of the various positions in football. On defense, a sense of responsibility is especially needed in your defensive backs since if they allow the ball carrier to get past them, it's a touchdown. Whereas the defensive linemen tend to be very aggressive. On offense, the linemen tend to be responsible types to protect the quarterback. Wide receivers tend to be showoffs (T.O., anyone?). And quarterbacks come in two flavors - either Broadway Joe or Straight Arrow. Venture a guess which kind would become a Democratic Congressman??

79 posted on 11/19/2006 3:54:57 AM PST by conservatism_IS_compassion (The idea around which liberalism coheres is that NOTHING actually matters except PR.)
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To: billbears
The road was promised but times change as well.

Yeah, and I promised to mail in my tax check but, you know, times change.

I wonder how that would fly with FedGov?

If the government wants its citizens to obey the law, it needs to set the example.

They promised the road. Build it and move on.

80 posted on 11/19/2006 3:59:19 AM PST by Knitebane (Happily Microsoft free since 1999.)
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To: McGavin999
That is what I had in mind, Swain County is very poor, satisfy the contract with them, make the cemetery part of the National Park system so the forest service would be responsible for upkeep, and then offer cash settlements to the families in lieu of the road and offer ten years of pontoon service.

If two or three families don't want the settlements, well, at least the fedgov tried to mitigate there non performance.

It certainly wouldn't cost 600 million dollars, and the forest wouldn't have to suffer a "Road to Nowhere".

Shuler basically told the families to get lost.
81 posted on 11/19/2006 6:49:13 AM PST by padre35 (We are surrounded, that simplifies our problem Chesty Puller)
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To: padre35
If the fedgov had done the right thing 30 years ago the road would have been on budget. Of course they didn't and now they have accomplices in there non action

So to reiterate because the 'right thing' wasn't done over 30 years ago, Republicans should 'fix' the mistake. Because that's what limited government is all about isn't it? Building a road for a very small group of people that already have a fix in place..

Your state? Really so I don't live in NC, I've never been to Fontana Dam, or hiked the Nantahala never went to the endless forest service hearings. Or talked to the forest service employees to get their take on it?

Oh well there you have it. Talking to government employees and listening to government hearings. That's different that is. I'm sorry I was wrong. Let's just tear up more of the forest because we've got to have that road. If you have hiked or traveled part of the Nantahala, I suggest you take a quick trip up to Cherokee and then across 441 then. Because if that road is built that's what this area will look like in 20-30 years. And I for one do not want that.

Shuler hasn't lived in WNC for years, he lived in Knoxville, were he has his real estate business

Never said he had. But he did grow up in the shadow of that road so I'd say his take is just as important.

I live in WNC, I know some of those families whose land got submerged to build that dam.

And I very well could be related to some of them. So what? Should I petition the government because of some promise 70 years ago, they should build a road to my great-great-great-grandfather's gravesite? Or great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandfather's gravesite? Because they're up there. I can't get to them very easily but I'm sure some politician made some promise to my ancestors too at some point during the TVA years

The TVA was a mistake. All of Roosevelt's actions were a mistake. I just don't think we need to compound that mistake by destroying even more land. Both Swain County and Bryson City have accepted the terms of $52 million in 2003. Accept it for a tenth of the supposed cost for building the road and move on

82 posted on 11/19/2006 9:52:32 AM PST by billbears (Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it. --Santayana)
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To: billbears; padre35; AntiGuv; Torie; ReignOfError
Yuh know bill, roads aren't evil, except to such people as algore and heath shuler. They help bring commerce together and foster economic growth.

Oh well anyway, I guess the people who's land was taken away by FDR should have to be subjected to your slowboat solution after a promise of a road was broken by heath shuler, as you get in your car and drive to get your essentials of life, akin to al gore getting in a SUV after a speech about the dangers of the internal combustible engine.


A pontoon boat loaded with descendants of Samuel and Clarissa Jones Cable makes it's way across a section of Fontana Lake, near Robbinsville, N.C., May 18, 2003. For almost 60 years, a boat ride or a backwoods trek have been the only way to reach family cemeteries and homeplaces cut off when the Tennessee Valley Authority finished Fontana Dam in 1944. Democrat Heath Shuler, who beat longtime GOP Rep. Charles Taylor in the Nov. 7, 2006, election, says he's opposed to spending hundreds of millions of federal dollars to build a road through one of the largest undeveloped tracts in Great Smoky Mountains National Park to replace a state highway flooded by the construction of a dam. (AP Photo/Alan Marler, File)

83 posted on 11/19/2006 10:03:14 AM PST by Dane ("Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall" Ronald Reagan, 1987)
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To: kylaka

Well, I was talking about the Joyce Kilmer Wilderness Area not a rest stop. It's in the Appalachian mountains and has one of the last stands of old growth forest in the Eastern U.S.


84 posted on 11/19/2006 10:03:57 AM PST by dljordan
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To: Dane

Why do you hate separation of powers?


85 posted on 11/19/2006 10:42:04 AM PST by A.J.Armitage (http://calvinist-libertarians.blogspot.com/)
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To: A.J.Armitage
Why do you hate separation of powers?

Nothing. And why do you hate someone such as me bringing up that a promise wasn't kept, and pointing out a fact that someone who showers himself in FDR populism(heath shuler) is breaking the FDR promise.

86 posted on 11/19/2006 11:11:55 AM PST by Dane ("Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall" Ronald Reagan, 1987)
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To: Dane
They help bring commerce together and foster economic growth.

Ah so that's what they call that nonsense between Cherokee and Pigeon Forge. Destruction of an entire landscape so tourists have a quicker pass between Dollywood and the casino in Cherokee. Have you been there? Have you seen what it's done over the years? Of course you haven't but that's never stopped 'conservatives' from blathering on about something they know nothing of. padre35 may agree with you but if that poster has lived in WNC for long even they've seen what's happening. Never mind it's killed off a lot of the old forests in the area. Progress!!! (And there are several ways over the mountains I-40, the new I-26 extension, etc.). Why stop at just one road Dane? Why don't we just asphalt the whole damn park? Who needs trees? I don't need to see that area of the state as my ancestors did. And neither does anyone else to you apparently.

And it's only going to cost an estimated $600 million. Hey, what's money? What's limited government? That's some more old thinking we need to get rid of. Your only disagreement with this is that a Democrat is against it, so by definition being a good Republican you must be for it.

I guess the people who's land was taken away by FDR should have to be subjected to your slowboat solution after a promise of a road was broken by heath shuler

In 2003 Swain County Commissioners and Bryson City Town Council signed off for the $52 million to drop the issue. But yet, being a good 'conservative' you're for wasting over $600 million for a road that by your own picture is going to pander to a few boatloads of folks.

Yes to reiterate, the local government, elected by the people that ride that boat every year, voted to accept $52 million to drop the matter. And a Democrat is against wasting $600 million to build an unneeded road. But because a Republican is for wasting at least $600 million, we should needlessly destroy the landscape. All over an issue you know nothing about.

Roads aren't evil, but useless roads aren't necessarily good either. BTW, where's the post office at the end of this road you're for? Oh that's right there probably wouldn't be one...

87 posted on 11/19/2006 12:02:22 PM PST by billbears (Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it. --Santayana)
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To: Dane
So a President can promise something, and Congress is obligated to do it. And you don't hate separation of powers.
88 posted on 11/19/2006 12:28:21 PM PST by A.J.Armitage (http://calvinist-libertarians.blogspot.com/)
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To: billbears
Yes to reiterate, the local government, elected by the people that ride that boat every year, voted to accept $52 million to drop the matter. And a Democrat is against wasting $600 million to build an unneeded road. But because a Republican is for wasting at least $600 million, we should needlessly destroy the landscape. All over an issue you know nothing about

Huh did FDR(heath shuler's guru) promise a road to the families displaced or hush money to current politicians in Swain county.

He promised a road.

89 posted on 11/19/2006 1:42:58 PM PST by Dane ("Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall" Ronald Reagan, 1987)
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To: Dane
Oh well anyway, I guess the people who's land was taken away by FDR should have to be subjected to your slowboat solution after a promise of a road was broken by heath shuler

So a promise that hasn't been fulfilled by ANY president or Congress in 63 years was "broken" by Heath Shuler, who hasn't even taken office yet. That's an interesting theory.

90 posted on 11/19/2006 2:54:05 PM PST by ReignOfError
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To: dljordan
I knew that. I saw the map, though I didn't know it was old growth, and I've never been there. I was just talking about things named after Joyce Kilmer in general. I once lived at Camp Kilmer, which is now closed and pretty much torn down. Given what's been named after him, over the years, I think the Wilderness Area is the best and most fitting memorial.

"I think I shall never see, a poem as lovely as....." and all that.

91 posted on 11/19/2006 2:59:21 PM PST by kylaka
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To: Dane
JMO, your attitude about the Fontana lakes families is basically, "screw you, I've got my road to my family cemetary, but you can't have one".

Not comparable. Mine is in a place where people live and work. The highways run between towns and facilitate commerce. Access to family cemeteries is a pretty weak justification for a $600 million road.

92 posted on 11/19/2006 2:59:29 PM PST by ReignOfError
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To: Dane

The original road to nowhere went to Ohio. It started out paved, was dirt farther on, was a trail farther on, and ended running up a tree.


93 posted on 11/19/2006 3:02:10 PM PST by RightWhale (RTRA DLQS GSCW)
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To: Dane
I think there is something like 1,300 familes

Then that must be one big honkin' pontoon boat they're using.

94 posted on 11/19/2006 3:11:48 PM PST by ReignOfError
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To: padre35
It is a sad day when supposedly freedom loving responsible people will simply write off a entire community because well, the flowers are pretty.

I believe the community was written off when the dam was built prior to WW2.

95 posted on 11/19/2006 3:14:41 PM PST by TN4Liberty (Sixty percent of all people understand statistics. The other half are clueless.)
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To: Dane
He promised a road.

Boy, if you think Swain County has a beef, you should talk to the Indians.

96 posted on 11/19/2006 3:16:34 PM PST by TN4Liberty (Sixty percent of all people understand statistics. The other half are clueless.)
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To: Moose4
I see Cades Cove mentioned there too

One of the most beautiful places on earth, IMO.

97 posted on 11/19/2006 3:29:58 PM PST by kcvl
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To: TN4Liberty
Boy, if you think Swain County has a beef, you should talk to the Indians.

If you can find one.

98 posted on 11/19/2006 3:41:03 PM PST by ReignOfError
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To: kylaka

"I knew that. I saw the map, though I didn't know it was old growth, and I've never been there."

The govt. bought the land from a gentleman who HATED logging companies and would never let them on his property. I've been there many times and have pictures of me and three of my friends trying to encircle a Poplar tree with our arms and not making it. I can only imagine what this country looked like before it was logged off.

On a side note, I took a friend who had never been camping before up there and the first day he finds a freaking quartz arrowhead that was just beautiful. I'm still kicking myself.


99 posted on 11/19/2006 3:54:07 PM PST by dljordan
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To: Dane

My old stomping grounds.


100 posted on 11/19/2006 3:57:23 PM PST by Rb ver. 2.0
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