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Japan's Yasukuni Shrine Accuses U.S. of Provoking Japan into WWII
BBC News ^ | Oct. 6, 2006

Posted on 11/19/2006 7:56:32 PM PST by davy

Japan's controversial Yasukuni shrine is to review a controversial display that says the US provoked Japan into entering WWII, Japanese media reports.

The US government complained about the exhibit, which claims that a US economic embargo forced Japan into war.

The Yasukuni shrine, seen by critics as a symbol of Japan's past militarism, has soured ties with its neighbours.

It is likely to overshadow a fence-mending visit to neighbours that New PM Shinzo Abe begins on Sunday.

He will visit China - the first Japanese premier to visit Beijing in five years - before moving on to South Korea.

China had refused to meet his predecessor, Junichiro Koizumi, because of his annual visits to the shrine.

Mr Abe has not said if he plans to visit Yasukuni himself.

Japan denied reports out of China that he had promised not to visit the shrine "for the time being".

The Yushukan museum, based in the Shinto shrine, was changing or deleting the reference to the US at the request of US officials and others who had questioned its accuracy, Japan's Kyodo news agency said.

Reuters news agency quoted a statement from the shrine that said it was reviewing all the museum's exhibits - and would be seeking the opinions of experts - in line with the fifth anniversary of its renovation.

"In order to make the exhibits more substantial, we will also review the historical accounts," the statement said.

Controversy over Yasukuni centres on the fact that 14 Japanese war criminals are venerated at the shrine, alongside its war dead.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Japan
KEYWORDS: japanhistorywwii
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1 posted on 11/19/2006 7:56:34 PM PST by davy
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To: davy

Welcome to Free Republic.


2 posted on 11/19/2006 7:59:13 PM PST by Tench_Coxe
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To: davy
and your opinion about this ?

Or am I IBTZ

3 posted on 11/19/2006 8:01:07 PM PST by clamper1797 (Kerry does support the troops ... just not ours)
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To: davy

I suppose China provoked Japan into slaughtering untold numbers of Chinese as well.


4 posted on 11/19/2006 8:01:30 PM PST by cripplecreek (If stupidity got us into this mess, then why can't it get us out?)
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To: davy

Another conspiracy theorist, I see.


5 posted on 11/19/2006 8:02:24 PM PST by sageb1 (This is the Final Crusade. There are only 2 sides. Pick one.)
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To: davy

Isn't this the same shrine that glorifies the kamikaze forces?


6 posted on 11/19/2006 8:03:23 PM PST by WorkingClassFilth (Ever learning . . .)
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To: davy

Did he also claim that "Nanking shouldn't have dressed so provocatively"?


7 posted on 11/19/2006 8:04:21 PM PST by inkling
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To: davy

DUers are so freakin' boring.


8 posted on 11/19/2006 8:04:39 PM PST by sageb1 (This is the Final Crusade. There are only 2 sides. Pick one.)
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To: davy

Personal Responsibility is only for the strong.

For the weak we have BLAME.


9 posted on 11/19/2006 8:05:01 PM PST by bannie
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To: davy

The US had issues with Japan before WWII because Japan was slaughtering and enslaving large numbers of Koreans and Chinese. It is as simple as that.


10 posted on 11/19/2006 8:06:26 PM PST by DB
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To: DB

By some accounts I've read, even the nazis were shocked at the behavior of the Japanese in China.


11 posted on 11/19/2006 8:08:22 PM PST by cripplecreek (If stupidity got us into this mess, then why can't it get us out?)
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To: inkling

There is some truth to this. Marxist influence got FDR to do the very things that provoked Japan, giving Russia a break in WWII. According to one book, that was the plan of the Russians, to keep Japan from attacking Russia. It was also a Japanese Navy versus Japanese Army fight. One wanted to attack Russia. The other wanted to attack America.

Nevertheless, nothing FDR did justified the attack on Pearl Harbor. How much he knew in advance - that's another story.


12 posted on 11/19/2006 8:08:43 PM PST by sine_nomine (No more RINO presidents. We need another Reagan.)
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To: DB

Yes, FDR did provoke them, but only because of Japan's designs on East Asia.


13 posted on 11/19/2006 8:10:29 PM PST by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: davy
Go here and type Greater Ea and let Google fill in the blank for you. It has to do with hegemony — of the Japanese Empire. Next, look up "Rape of Nanking" for a hint as to the nature of that hegemony. Economic sanctions? No big deal...
14 posted on 11/19/2006 8:10:39 PM PST by cynwoody
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To: sine_nomine

We were surprised because we all , from FDR down, underestimated the Japs. They took a huge gable and almost swept the boards. If they had hit the storage tanks.....


15 posted on 11/19/2006 8:13:24 PM PST by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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We did cut off their oil supplies, but what were the Japanese doing in China? What was Italy doing in Africa before this, too?


16 posted on 11/19/2006 8:14:33 PM PST by PageMarker
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To: DB

or that Japan attacked a US Navy River Patrol boat in China in '38 giving us only a toothy smile, with a "Sooo Sorrrrey! Big Misstake!"


17 posted on 11/19/2006 8:14:33 PM PST by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country. What else needs to be said?)
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To: davy

This is pretty funny. The last time I was at the Smithsonian I got the distinct impression that this was OUR government's position as well.

But then, they ALWAYS blame America first.


18 posted on 11/19/2006 8:17:09 PM PST by Cincinnatus
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To: cripplecreek
There was at least one, John Rabe, a dedicated Nazi.

He was in Nanking, and protected hundreds of Chinese from the Japanese during the massacre there. He collected hours of video evidence while protecting those people. He even tried to get top ranking Nazi's to try to stop the Japanese atrocities.

For all his trouble, he got a visit from the Gestapo and had all his film taken away..
19 posted on 11/19/2006 8:21:06 PM PST by Madison Moose
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To: inkling

EXACTLY!


20 posted on 11/19/2006 8:23:34 PM PST by BenLurkin ("The entire remedy is with the people." - W. H. Harrison)
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To: clamper1797

Thanks for the welcome, Tench, it's good to be here.

I was watching the Disney-made Pearl Harbor (I know, I know, it's a monstrosity in historical accuracy...) earlier and was rather moved by the scene where the US sailors went down with their ships. Then I came across this gem while surfing, and was REALLY, REALLY p'd off by the line
"Reuters news agency quoted a statement from the shrine that said it was reviewing all the museum's exhibits - and would be seeking the opinions of experts - in line with the fifth anniversary of its renovation.

"In order to make the exhibits more substantial, we will also review the historical accounts," the statement said."

I guess they don't have any history books in Japan that they must consult "experts" about what I learned as 7th grade history...

What does IBTZ stand for?


21 posted on 11/19/2006 8:26:33 PM PST by davy
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To: Tench_Coxe
Too many conspiracy theories on this subject. We knew they were coming, and we also needed an excuse to enter the war in Europe. We got our invite after the Dec 7th attack when Hitler declared war on us thinking that if he did that the Japanese would invade the eastern end of Russia. Many thought that FDR couldn't get the public motivated enough to fight in Europe, although we were already involved as the arsenal of democracy providing weapons and material to Britain and escorting convoys. Even with the sinking of a couple of US escort destroyers in the Atlantic it wasn't enough to get the public's backing. However after the Japanese attack we had the public's backing, but surprise, we went full scale against Germany first and held back supplies to our Pacific forces. Japan was the aggressor in the Pacific and they started the war 10years earlier with their invasion of Manchuria and eventually China. We didn't provoke them into invading Manchuria or China. The Tenaka Plan was ready before we were brought into the war. It will be more interesting to see how history is revised 200 years from now. Many believe that FDR wanted the attack on Pearl Harbor as an excuse to get us into WW II.
22 posted on 11/19/2006 8:29:04 PM PST by Bringbackthedraft (Thank you John Kerry, we never doubted your feelings towards us. Loser!)
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To: davy

The US embargo was in response to years of Japanese agression against China and East Asia, enslavement of millions, vast numbers of murders, etc. etc.

To say the US "provoked" Japan into WWII is like saying "we can invade anyone we want, and if you object we will invade you, too!"

Still, FDR and others were quite naive in not realizing fully that to the militarists of Japan the only appropriate response to the embargo would be war, and most likely via surprise attack as they had previously used against the Russians. It required profound ignorance for US leaders to imagine that the Japanese military would simply say "ooops, US embargo, we'd better back down...."

Similar puzzlement arises when looking at the irrational faith in the value of "sanctions" and "diplomacy" today vs. Iran and North Korea. What rational person thinks that either of those governments is going to be constrained by the mere inconvenience of sanctions??? Sure, they won't feel they can get away with launching a surprise attack on the USA ala Pearl Harbor, but both of those countries are certainly willing to practice plenty of brinksmanship while improving their nuclear programs, and external pressures only make their internal controls clamp down even harder.


23 posted on 11/19/2006 8:29:48 PM PST by Enchante (America-haters and Terrorists Around the World Embrace Chamberlain Democrats)
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To: Madison Moose

That would be a great movie.


24 posted on 11/19/2006 8:31:32 PM PST by endthematrix ("If it's not the Crusades, it's the cartoons.")
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To: davy
IBTZ means

In Before The Zot

"In [to the thread] before the [administrator's] Zot!"

Where Zot means that the thread will be pulled. I don't know where the term came from. Help??

Whenever we see a newbie posting "blame America first" propaganda, we tend to assume that it might be a visitor from DU.
25 posted on 11/19/2006 8:36:21 PM PST by the_Watchman
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To: Bringbackthedraft

"Japan was the aggressor in the Pacific and they started the war 10years earlier with their invasion of Manchuria and eventually China. We didn't provoke them into invading Manchuria or China."

The Japanese government claims they were never in Manchuria. That, would make you a liar, Bringbackthedraft.

But seriously, some of my younger friends still in college told me that in their exchange programs to Japan (they're graphic design major, closely related to Japanese cartoons), they noticed Japanese history books have no mention of Pearl Harbor. You can look those two words up in the index, but they're not there. This worrys me; will future Japense generations eventually blame us for the casualty they took from the war? If the US started WWII with Japan, than those nukes would eventually be interpreted as our fault too.


26 posted on 11/19/2006 8:47:36 PM PST by davy
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To: the_Watchman
I don't know where the term came from. Help??

For your reference, specifically the B.C. and FR parts.

27 posted on 11/19/2006 8:56:29 PM PST by Hoplite
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To: the_Watchman

Thanks for the explanation, pal. No worries, I'm DEFINITELY not one of them "we had it coming on Sept. 11" crowds.

What's DU?


28 posted on 11/19/2006 8:57:17 PM PST by davy
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To: RobbyS
They were just betting that Germany would win in Russia. The day of the attack, German reconnaissance units were within sight of the Moscow skyline.
29 posted on 11/19/2006 8:59:47 PM PST by JasonC
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To: Enchante
"they won't feel they can get away with launching a surprise attack on the USA"

Complacency kills many felines.

Of course they will. They will have a bagman deliver it quietly in an unmarked container ship, rather than a horde of planes with the Iranian flag painted on them, that's all.

30 posted on 11/19/2006 9:03:31 PM PST by JasonC
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To: davy

31 posted on 11/19/2006 9:06:05 PM PST by BunnySlippers (Never Forget / Giuliani 2008)
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To: davy
Just in:

Japanese proclaim Koreans and Chinese forced them to invade, rape, pillage, slaughter and enslave said peoples. Said Kuki Iminsana, "They made us do it. We were peacefully fishing, growing rice and watching kabuke when Japan was forced to travel far away and teach the inferior subhumans of China and Korea that Japan was superior."

No clearer explanation is there.

Back to our regular inane programming.

32 posted on 11/19/2006 9:10:00 PM PST by Thumper1960 (Unleash the Dogs of War as a Minority, or perish as a party.)
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To: JasonC

You may be right, alas - that's why every US government from here forward needs to promise these various scumbags a policy of "multiple deterrence" -- if any WMD attack is conducted against the USA, here or abroad, from any unknown sources, then ALL of the scumbags will suffer retaliation -- Iran, North Korea, Syria, etc...... we can no longer afford the luxury of trying to figure out who has attacked us when 9/11 style attacks or worse can happen without any return address.

Of course, that is why pre-emption is more important than ever, though the Demagogues and their UN butt-buddies seem determined to tie down the USA's Gulliver in Lilliput.


33 posted on 11/19/2006 9:10:18 PM PST by Enchante (America-haters and Terrorists Around the World Embrace Chamberlain Democrats)
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To: davy

DU - "Democratic Underground" - a toxic cesspool of subhuman debris.


34 posted on 11/19/2006 9:14:41 PM PST by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: Enchante
Yeah that's credible. We won't muss Iran's hair now when we know they are aiming at this because it isn't sufficiently popular. And the whole crew you mention are already just the deniable cut-outs for the Russians and Chinese giving them the technology and covering their diplomatic backsides.
35 posted on 11/19/2006 9:15:02 PM PST by JasonC
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To: JasonC

Which is why Hitler was dumb enough to declare war on the United States. If he had not, the United States would have thrown its full effort into the war against Japan.


36 posted on 11/19/2006 9:15:35 PM PST by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: JasonC

Yeah, but if nuke (or heaven forbid multiple nukes) should go off in any US city then all bets are off - I doubt even the weasel Demagogues would dare to stand in the way of American wrath and retaliation, though of course they would re-assert themselves over time ala Jimmy Carter.


37 posted on 11/19/2006 9:19:32 PM PST by Enchante (America-haters and Terrorists Around the World Embrace Chamberlain Democrats)
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To: sine_nomine
By cutting off the oil, Roosevelt gave the upper hand to the Imperial Navy [the Southern thrust], which needed the oilfields of Indonesia as a source of POL. That meant war with the Dutch and the British - and possibly the Americans. Hence Pearl Harbor. The Japanese Army wanted to attack Siberia [the Northern thrust]. But no oil. And the Japanese Navy had something like a 90 day reserve.

Plus, the U.S , as part of the pre- Pearl Harbor negotiations, told the Japanese they had to withdraw from China [which, after the war we said meant Indo-China]. That wasn't going to happen.
38 posted on 11/19/2006 9:21:03 PM PST by PzLdr ("The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am" - Darth Vader)
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To: davy

Actually, in some ways, the claim is absolutely correct.

FDR went out of his way to harm the Japanese economy with our own efforts against them there. FDR WANTED Japan in the war so he would have an excuse to attack the Nazis.

He thought Japan would be easy to defeat and he could move on the Hitler, whom FDR thought the real threat (not that Hitler wasn't a threat, of course).

Of course, the economic avenue would not have been successful if the Japs had not been so militaristic and aggressive in the Pacific Rim in the first place. Sure, FDR wanted to defeat Japan, but it wasn't because Japan was so mean to it's neighbors. He just wanted a way at the Nazis that he could get past US voters who put him back in office NOT to go to war (he promised he would stay out of the war, and lied the whole time as he was constantly LOOKING for a way in).

FDR was one of our worst liars ever to hit the White House. Even worse than Clinton.


39 posted on 11/19/2006 9:23:04 PM PST by Mobile Vulgus
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To: sine_nomine
According to one book, that was the plan of the Russians, to keep Japan from attacking Russia.

Mind you, in 1939 the Japanese tried to attack Soviet forces on the Battle of Khalkhin Gol the Japanese were thoroughly defeated by the command of one Georgy Zhukov, who would later command Soviet troops on their invasion of Germany in 1944-1945.

40 posted on 11/19/2006 9:25:32 PM PST by RayChuang88
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To: JasonC

The Russian counterattack in front of Moscow started December 6th, the day before the Pearl Harbor attack. If I remember correctly, the German unit [from Kluge's 4th Army?] spotted the Kremlin on the 5th.


41 posted on 11/19/2006 9:25:39 PM PST by PzLdr ("The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am" - Darth Vader)
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To: davy

If you want to see how liberals think in the worst way, check out http://www.democraticunderground.com. A Haz Mat suit is recommended.

Welcome to Free Republic and thanks for the interesting post.

And people are all nuts over us still being in Iraq. We haven't even left Japan yet.


42 posted on 11/19/2006 9:30:32 PM PST by skr (We cannot play innocents abroad in a world that is not innocent.-- Ronald Reagan)
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To: DuncanWaring

Hey the cesspool of rotting fecal matter behind my house is asking for an apology!!!


43 posted on 11/19/2006 9:32:15 PM PST by Xenophon450 (im on ur thread, replyng to ur topix)
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To: davy
Well from their point of view they probably did see it somewhat that way. They seem to be forgetting some of the history that led up to that embargo though
44 posted on 11/19/2006 9:34:22 PM PST by RunningWolf (2-1 Cav 1975)
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To: Mobile Vulgus

Actually, in some ways, the claim is absolutely correct.

FDR went out of his way to harm the Japanese economy with our own efforts against them there. FDR WANTED Japan in the war so he would have an excuse to attack the Nazis.

He thought Japan would be easy to defeat and he could move on the Hitler, whom FDR thought the real threat (not that Hitler wasn't a threat, of course).

Of course, the economic avenue would not have been successful if the Japs had not been so militaristic and aggressive in the Pacific Rim in the first place. Sure, FDR wanted to defeat Japan, but it wasn't because Japan was so mean to it's neighbors. He just wanted a way at the Nazis that he could get past US voters who put him back in office NOT to go to war (he promised he would stay out of the war, and lied the whole time as he was constantly LOOKING for a way in).

FDR was one of our worst liars ever to hit the White House. Even worse than Clinton.


I see... so we Americans, through our intrigue and plotting, tricked the Japs into WWII??? With all due respect, WTH are you talking about?


45 posted on 11/19/2006 9:34:41 PM PST by davy
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To: davy

I believe it's true.

There were 10 years of depression. The New Deal had basically failed. Of course FDR wanted the conflict.

You don't move your Navy some 3000 miles closer to Japan and not expect them to get worried.


46 posted on 11/19/2006 9:50:40 PM PST by mc6809e
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To: DuncanWaring

you overate the place :)


47 posted on 11/19/2006 9:51:16 PM PST by xp38
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To: davy

DU is a reference to the Democrat Underground site. They are also referred to, fondly, as DUmmies! :)


48 posted on 11/19/2006 10:07:02 PM PST by the_Watchman
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To: Mobile Vulgus

Why would he want to have a war on two distant fronts. I've always heard this said about FDR but never believed it. Why not just get Italy to offend you in some way ?


49 posted on 11/19/2006 10:24:29 PM PST by Rumple4
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To: Enchante
They aren't bets, and no they won't be off. The left will blame it all on provoking our enemies and say it is Bush's fault - you know it - and will counsel appeasement and UN sovereignty and all the rest of it.
50 posted on 11/19/2006 10:40:24 PM PST by JasonC
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