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Dad Still Lost As Missing Family Found Alive ( Latest on CNET Editor )
The Associated Press ^ | December 5, 2006

Posted on 12/05/2006 9:18:33 AM PST by george76

Searchers intensified their efforts Tuesday to find a San Francisco man missing for more than a week in a rugged, remote area of the snow-covered Oregon Coast Range as his wife and two young children, rescued just the day before, recovered in a hospital.

Trained dogs, horse patrols and a helicopter with heat-sensitive sensors were sent to join other helicopters, snowmobiles and foot patrols Tuesday for 35-year-old James Kim.

Trackers had followed his footprints until dark Monday night.

"They determined that he went over the side of the road into the Big Windy Creek drainage area and that's when the two deputies from Jackson County went over the edge and they are tracking his footprints right now," ...Tuesday morning.

"There are some cliffs they may have to go down to get down to the creek.

And there's still snow and ice, cold temperature, but they've been out all night and they plan to be out all day. And their hope is to find him today," ...

Kim...had left his wife and two young children in their frozen, snowbound car and set off into the wilderness to seek help, wearing only tennis shoes, a sweater and a jacket.

State Police Lt. Gregg Hastings said Kati Kim told a detective the family intended to take Oregon 42, the usual route from Interstate 5 to the south Oregon coast, but they missed the turnoff, found Bear Camp Road on the map and decided to take it instead of turning back.

Their car was 15 miles from Bear Camp Road when found.

The complicated network of roads in the area is commonly used by whitewater rafters on the Rogue River or as shortcuts to Gold Beach in the summer, but the roads are not plowed in winter and can be impassable.

(Excerpt) Read more at thedenverchannel.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; News/Current Events; US: California; US: Oregon
KEYWORDS: cnet; grantspass; jameskim; kim; missing; missingfamily; oregon
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To: null and void

Your wrong. They found an extra pair of pants. The pants they found were grey. He is wearing blue jeans. He left the spare pants as a marker.

Get your facts before you start diagnosing medical conditions!


101 posted on 12/05/2006 4:32:22 PM PST by surfer
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To: surfer

In fact finding the pants is the most positive thing that has happened since finding the family.

It is a sign of life. As long as we find signs of life there is still hope.


102 posted on 12/05/2006 4:43:32 PM PST by surfer
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To: george76

Didn't this same thing happen in the same area about a year ago?


103 posted on 12/05/2006 5:02:37 PM PST by Mercat (a large tub of bullfrogs without proper invoices)
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To: Mercat

Same road...just this past winter in the Feb-Mar 2006 time-frame. The searchers never thought the RV went as far as they did on the road. Two people left the family and found help. If they all had stayed with the RV who knows what would have happened.

However having the RV is a big help in this type of situation. They were there for a long time. Weeks and weeks.


104 posted on 12/05/2006 5:07:10 PM PST by surfer
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To: surfer

" They are now reporting the trackers found a pair of pants that belonged to James Kim."

Not good.

He also apparently has no hat and no gloves in freezing temperatures...

He could have used these pants ?



105 posted on 12/05/2006 5:14:22 PM PST by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: gura

We are all pulling for the guy.

Hopefully, the searchers will find him soon.


106 posted on 12/05/2006 5:17:25 PM PST by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: Mercat

Yes, and apparenlty it happens there very frequently.


107 posted on 12/05/2006 5:22:46 PM PST by BunnySlippers (Never Forget / Giuliani 2008)
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To: Paradox

I can personally recommend this guy. He'll sell you a kit, sure, but what he has to say is perhaps even more important.

It's also cheaper to make your own kit.

http://www.equipped.com/


108 posted on 12/05/2006 5:27:37 PM PST by Sally Golightly
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To: surfer
Your wrong.

Good!

109 posted on 12/05/2006 5:54:21 PM PST by null and void (To succeed in life, you need three things: a wishbone, a backbone and a funnybone. --Reba McEntire)
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To: Paradox

There's a backup power adapter for cell phones that uses two AA batteries. My mom got it at Wal*Mart.


110 posted on 12/05/2006 5:55:13 PM PST by TenthAmendmentChampion (Pray for our President and for our heroes in Iraq and Afghanistan, and around the world!)
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To: null and void

:)

BTW...I didn't mean to chomp...it is just so many people on these threads seem eager to write this poor guy off.

Drives me nuts...


111 posted on 12/05/2006 5:58:08 PM PST by surfer
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To: surfer

No problem!

No offense taken.


112 posted on 12/05/2006 6:07:02 PM PST by null and void (To succeed in life, you need three things: a wishbone, a backbone and a funnybone. --Reba McEntire)
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To: surfer

Yep, but those people didn't want to be found...a little thing about warrants...


113 posted on 12/05/2006 6:10:19 PM PST by OregonRancher (illigitimus non carborundun)
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To: surfer

Yep, but those people didn't want to be found...a little thing about warrants...


114 posted on 12/05/2006 6:11:56 PM PST by OregonRancher (illigitimus non carborundun)
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To: OregonRancher

Yes that is true...isn't that interesting how that works out...lol.

What ever happened were they finally prosecuted? Wasn't is something in New Mexico or AZ?


115 posted on 12/05/2006 6:22:01 PM PST by surfer
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To: surfer

Something about warrants due to the illegal use of drugs. The parents really didn't want to see the cops...I laughed for a day on that one.


116 posted on 12/05/2006 6:26:02 PM PST by OregonRancher (illigitimus non carborundun)
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To: surfer

We live in Phoenix and every time we watched a show where a guy was wanted it seemed like he was last seen in Arizona, in Phoenix in particular. Must be lots of good places to hide here...


117 posted on 12/05/2006 6:41:00 PM PST by TenthAmendmentChampion (Pray for our President and for our heroes in Iraq and Afghanistan, and around the world!)
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To: null and void

If this guy is eating snow for thirst, there aint much chance he is alive. Eating to much snow in cold weather will lower your body temp. If he stays moving HARD during the day he might have a fighting chance. That, and he must make shelter at night..out of tree boughs and such. But, I doubt they have seen any sign of such as they would have said so if they would have found such shelters. I fear the man slipped into the river and drowned or has froze to death. I give him a less than 30% chance at this time.

Still, it is possible..


118 posted on 12/05/2006 7:41:16 PM PST by crz
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To: george76

If he dropped these pants to mark the spot he went in, it was a big mistake. It tells me he doesnt know as much as they are saying about the woods. You mark with a tree limb or something. You never discard anything that would help you to survive. Those drawers could'a been torn to cover his head and wrap his feet and hands-the three most important areas of heat loss, especially the head. In cold weather, if you keep your head and feet warm you can sustain in cold weather quite a long time. The hands can be kept a tad warm by flailing your arms across your back driving the warmth down to the hands.


119 posted on 12/05/2006 7:53:30 PM PST by crz
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To: crz

A serious mountain person might leave some signs if he wanted to be tracked later by others.

Small rock piles, rocks arranged in an arrow fashion, marking trees, breaking branches...would be useful.

Leaving pants when one does not have a hat nor gloves is not a good sign. ( It is also not helpful that the local sheriff professes this as a 'sign.' )

Second, I do not know why he did not build a large fire on the road near his car. He had nine days to find dry branches, small dead trees...so he had lots of fuel for a 24 hour, every day and night fire.

The smoke could have been seen during the day by passing airplanes and the flames at night. Plus he could have used the fire for warmth instead of draining the car's gas.


120 posted on 12/05/2006 8:39:34 PM PST by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: george76
He should have been found within hours of the finding of his spouse and kids, if he was capable and in control of the situation.

In the wilderness, you can't rely on maps to the point where you lose control of the situation, or let reliance on technology override prudence and common sense.

Lose control of the situation, and the situation controls you.

121 posted on 12/05/2006 10:27:38 PM PST by SteveH (First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win.)
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To: Disambiguator
I think the spare tire fire would be the most effective. Especially in Oregon, a thick, black, oily-looking smoke column would get immediate attention.

If only they could have found a Spotted Owl to kill... now THAT would have gotten the immediate attention!

122 posted on 12/06/2006 2:06:38 AM PST by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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To: george76

Yup. I agree. They are saying these people were clever? I dont buy into that. They had the means to light their car tires and not the means to find firewood and use that?
Then take off cross country instead of following the road? Something doesnt quite add up..


123 posted on 12/06/2006 5:05:51 AM PST by crz
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To: george76

He should have stayed where he was, and maybe done something to attract attention, like if you had the means, burn the spare tire setting off a column of black smoke.


124 posted on 12/06/2006 5:07:41 AM PST by Conservomax (There are no solutions, only trade-offs.)
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To: crz

This would be a good time for the Oregon State Police Lt. to stop repeating that the removed pants is a possible sign.

Lots of city people ( when they become lost in the future ) may start leaving their clothes behind...as a sign.

The state police should offer a better list of recommendations of what to do when lost in the woods.

IMO.


125 posted on 12/06/2006 5:52:55 AM PST by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: SteveH

We all wish the best for him and his family.

We hope that he is found by the searchers soon.

The fact that he has not identified himself with four helicopters above and with hundreds of searchers also making lots of noise on the ground ( after 4 days ? ) is not a good sign.


126 posted on 12/06/2006 5:56:35 AM PST by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: Conservomax

The helicopter pictures of their car shows lots of trees near-by.

One could have found lots of dry branches and some small dead trees to build a large fire on that dirt road. The fire could have been going 24 hours day and night.

The smoke would have been seen by passing airplanes in the day time and flames at night.

Plus the warmth would have been helpful.

The point of the above is not to be critical, but to help some lurker here who may get lost in the future.


127 posted on 12/06/2006 6:02:33 AM PST by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: george76

I have a job very similar to this guy's - slightly more technical, I can build you the next myspace, but I don't know if I could build a fire in the wild.

I too enjoy Bear Grylls.


128 posted on 12/06/2006 6:55:42 AM PST by Conservomax (There are no solutions, only trade-offs.)
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To: CertainInalienableRights
It isn't even a bad snow you have to worry about - fuel pumps, just as an example, can often die without warning leaving your car essentially dead.

I have sometimes wondered if it would be possible to carry enough spare parts to prevent the possibility of such breakdowns. Perhaps someone could create a special vehicle with two engines.

129 posted on 12/06/2006 7:06:11 AM PST by wideminded
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To: george76
One should be able to walk 2 to 3 miles per hour unless the snow was really high...without snow shoes or a x-c ski.

Most people can barely manage walking at 2-3 miles per hour on pavement. In the woods, over rugged and likely hilly terrain, in snow, he would probably have been lucky to make 1 mile per hour. And keep in mind that he'd been out there for something like 6 or 7 days already, so he was already likely to be short on sleep, short on hydration, and short on nutrition. On a road or clear trail, rested, fed, and hydrated, 2-3 mph would have been more likely, but it doesn't sound like he stayed on the road for too long.

130 posted on 12/06/2006 7:15:32 AM PST by Sicon
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To: Conservomax

We all have our skills and interests.

I would get lost trying to understand your technical skills. It is interesting for me to watch skilled people in action.

However, I can build a roaring fire in no time even in a rain forest in the middle of a rain storm ( I have many times ). A skill that I do not use much anymore.

One of my goals here is to help the willing learn a few basic tips that may keep them alive in the future.


131 posted on 12/06/2006 7:21:00 AM PST by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: Sicon
My one experience in the woods of the great Northwest was about 15 years ago on an elk hunting trip to the lower part of the Cascades in Washington state. On this or another thread someone posted satellite images of the area. They showed I think recent logging in the area and there have been many references to logging roads. One thing I found on my trip was it's one thing to walk on a road, trail or even through woods but it's quite another to walk in an area that has been logged. There are lots of limbs etc. left on the ground so that many times you are climbing or crawling over branches or tree trunks it's much worse when covered by snow. It takes lot's of energy to go just a mile or so in those conditions I did it for a week but that was with a dry heated trailer to come back to at the end of the day and a hot supper and breakfast the next morning.
132 posted on 12/06/2006 7:34:32 AM PST by nomorelurker (wetraginhell)
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To: Sicon

You are correct.

At this point, few could do much.

I was thinking that many could walk 2 to 3 miles per hour on the dirt road earlier on their disaster. He might have been able to follow his own tire tracks on the somewhat level road.

I am also trying to plant the seed for any lurkers on what to consider if they have a similar event.

Also, I was asking any local FReeper if the closest town was 15 miles away or much more. Apparently there was a cell phone tower remotely available somewhat. If so, he might have been lucky to get a signal.

Going uphill after waiting 9 days in the car short on food and water would be tough.

For any lurker, please consider staying on the road and avoid the temptation of taking a short cut...unless you are a skilled mountaineer. Even many mountaineers die in the back woods.


133 posted on 12/06/2006 7:37:52 AM PST by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: george76

Does anyone know how far from the last town they passed their car was found?


134 posted on 12/06/2006 7:53:11 AM PST by IM2MAD
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To: george76
Agreed. Best-case scenario would have been walking on the road, hopefully on a downhill grade most of the time. Most people without wilderness experience simply don't appreciate just how difficult it is to move over wild terrain. Trying to make your way through a forest, over fallen trees, streams, ridges and cliffs, through dense thickets, etc., while trying to maintain your bearings and stay on course, is extremely difficult. To do so in a physically depleted (and I would imagine in Kim's case, at least a partially panicked) state, would be far worse.

His best bet would have been to backtrack by the route they followed in, assuming he could remember the turns that got them there. That would have kept him on roads, more likely to eventually encounter another vehicle, and ultimately, get him back to the main road. If he ventured into that creek/valley as the current reports suggest, and into an area with large cliffs, etc., I think the odds that he is still alive are extremely low. Given his attire (jeans and sneakers, no hat, as far as I have read, combined with cold and damp), hypothermia would have taken him down pretty quickly.

But miracles do happen, and maybe he has managed to survive somehow.

135 posted on 12/06/2006 7:55:55 AM PST by Sicon
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To: Sicon

Earlier in the disaster, he should have been able to follow his tire tracks...even if he could not remember the turns that he took.

Traveling cross country can be very tough physically and mentally...even for experienced, well conditioned, and well equiped folks. Even in my youth, I rarely would try to jump over all of the dead fall, etc. with a full pack.

When I heard that he left the road for the river and the cliffs...with no hat nor any gloves...wearing cotton pants...I was very worried for him.



Ditto :

" But miracles do happen, and maybe he has managed to survive somehow. "


136 posted on 12/06/2006 8:06:28 AM PST by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: cajungirl

Latest ?

Searchers pulled out of the lower canyon area Tuesday night because darkness heightened the risk. Anderson said searchers checked Black Bar Lodge, a popular summer spot along the Rogue that is closed in winter. They found no sign of him there.

Anderson said he does not know why Kim went into the drainage area. "I hope to have the opportunity to ask why he did that,"

Precipitation was forecast for Friday with temperatures expected to drop below freezing in the valleys and settle in the high 40s on ridges.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20061206/D8LR9F2O0.html


137 posted on 12/06/2006 8:22:46 AM PST by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: Paradox

You are correct: Stay with the car. A big car is easier to spot from the air than your little body. It's also, at the very least, some form of shelter. It might not be as warm as you'd like, but it's still warmer than a snowdrift; especially with more than one person inside. There are also things and materials in a car that can be used to signal rescuers. Tear a mirror off and you have a signal mirror. Cut the spare tire off of its rim, toss it into a fire (that you started using the car's lighter), and you have a nice, smoky signal fire.

I hope and pray that I'm wrong, but I think that they're gonna find this poor guy deader than dead; if they find him at all.


138 posted on 12/06/2006 9:07:52 AM PST by Redcloak (Speak softly and wear a loud shirt.)
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To: Redcloak
Sadly it has just been announced Mr Kim Has been found dead in the Big Windy Creek area.

No further information at this time per local television.

139 posted on 12/06/2006 12:49:15 PM PST by wanderin
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To: All

It's official, Kim found dead
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1748417/posts?page=1012#1012

KGW Stream (heartbroken announcement by Sheriff Anderson)
God bless those that searched so hard for him
http://www.kgw.com/sharedcontent/VideoPlayer/videoPlayer.php?vidId=57406&live=yes


140 posted on 12/06/2006 1:08:40 PM PST by AliVeritas (Save a child... club a lib.)
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To: AliVeritas

Thanks.

Sad news.

Prayers for the family.


141 posted on 12/06/2006 2:51:43 PM PST by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: wideminded
I have sometimes wondered if it would be possible to carry enough spare parts to prevent the possibility of such breakdowns. Perhaps someone could create a special vehicle with two engines

Certainly it would be possible to build greater redundancy into vehicles. Much could be accomplished with higher-quality materials and engineering, but even beyond that adding redundant systems would definitely be doable in a lot of areas.

Three problems would be cost, and weight, and space. Cost isn't necessarily an issue. Plenty of people are willing to pay a premium for vehicles going well beyond the minimum necessary features. Weight and space would be less of an issue without CAFE standards to meet.

I suspect that the most likely vehicle in which redundant systems could be designed into would be something large, like a SUV or Hummer.
142 posted on 12/06/2006 6:05:07 PM PST by CertainInalienableRights
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