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10 WAYS TO FIGHT MOHAMMED-WORSHIP
December 16, 2006 | Urbane Guerilla

Posted on 12/16/2006 1:06:03 PM PST by Urbane_Guerilla

10 WAYS TO FIGHT MOHAMMED-WORSHIP

The worship of mohammed, which is inspired by islam (the made-up mess of a book called the koran, the hadith, the sira), has a nihilist view of existence, as do all the totalitarian belief systems thought up and implemented by demented, hating men. Paradise is always on the horizon; destruction, violence, hatred, sadism, pain and death, always on the march toward the ever-receding goal; in this case, until you get the promised sex orgy in heaven.

Bombs and soldiers are not anywhere close to the answer in confronting totalitarianism. Nor is merely the will to win, as if we could gain victory if we only tolerate more deaths by our own civilization, and more of our treasure expended in ever greater amounts.

This is above all an ideological war. It needs to be waged as a battle of ideas.

The audience for this battle splits into two parts, the worshippers of mohammed, and those in the West who cannot or will not recognize their own peril, or who indeed share the totalitarian pov and hate liberty, especially because they hate America.

Here are ten ideas and themes, (they are many more) we can use in the battle.

1. YOU ARE GOING TO HELL. Jihadis and other mohammed-worshippers think they are going to the sex orgy in the sky. This is a very vulnerable mental state. The question of their ultimate other-worldly destination resides in the upper-most part of their psychologies. They must be told at every chance that their destination is HELL.

2. YOU ARE BEING EXPLOITED BY RICH COWARDS. The vast disparity of wealth in the islamic world is rich with possibilities. Poor, ignorant moslems (meaning, most) must be bombarded with the idea that their religion is a sham used by wealthy cowards, who are only interested in saving their own pampered, sheltered lives and their money, but who use mohammed-worship to keep ordinary moslems down.

3. YOUR WOMEN ARE TREATED LIKE GARBAGE. There is always going to be a large segment of moslem women who will be intelligent enough and courageous enough to be susceptible to the truth, and of acting upon it. They can be a valuable fifth column. Even with the relentless intimidation and brain-washing moslem men inflict on moslem women, the human mind is capable of understanding the truth, and the human heart of fighting for the respect and dignity every human being deserves.

4. YOUR CIVILIZATION IS A ZERO. mohammed-worship produces nothing constructive, adds nothing positive, creates nothing, and can take no pride in any accomplishments modern man can think of.

5. MOHAMMED IS THE PERFECT EXAMPLE OF A NARCISSTIC SOCIOPATH. The man worshipped by moslems had all the expected failings of a sociopath. They are familiar to anyone who has studied islam even a little, but they are unknown or denied even by mohammed-worshippers, forget about Westerners. The various aspects of this sociopath's life must be relentlessly presented to the world.

6. THE KORAN IS A VIOLENT, INCOHERENT MESS. The koran, to worshippers of mohammed, is the perfect analogy to the Resurrection for Christians. If you don't believe in the koran as the literal spoken word of allah, then you don't believe the central tenet of the faith. The koran is so incoherent and ridiculous, it cannot be defended except by death threats and intimidation. It must be "deconstructed" in the hundreds of ways possible. All that needs to be shown, literally, is that one word of the koran is false: how difficult can this be, if the propaganda is relentless enough?

7. MOHAMMED-WORSHIP CAN ONLY BE DEFENDED BY DEATH THREATS AND INTIMIDATION. The worship of mohammed is illogical and irrational, hence it can only be defended by death threats and intimidation. As long as those are the only "logical" means available to defend islam (that is, any exercise of human intelligence in any aspect of islam is deemed to be dissing allah), they should be focused upon daily.

8. ISLAM HATES AND DISRESPECTS CHRISTIANS, JEWS, HINDUS, BUDDHISTS AND EVERY NON-WORSHIPPER OF MOHAMMED. This cannot be stressed enough. Everywhere in the world the worship of mohammed goes, it hates and kills. The koran teaches moslems to disrespect and loathe the belief of Jews and Christians. The worship of mohammed deserves no more than what advocates toward others.

9. THE WORSHIP OF MOHAMMED HAS NO GOLDEN RULE, NO FORGIVENESS OF OTHERS, AND IS LOVELESS. This cannot be stressed enough. The golden rule is inherent in human nature. Even moslems, because they are human beings, must understand that the golden rule is the basic rule of existence. But they have been convinced that infidels are subhuman, and thus not worth according respect even in the most basic way.

10. WE LOVE MOSLEMS, WE PITY THEM, WE HOPE FOR THEIR REVERSION TO HUMANITY. This also cannot be stressed enough. mohammed-worshippers are human beings, just like the rest of us, no better and no worse, except their minds have been flooded with fear, intimidation, irrationality and hatred. The propaganda battle must include a constant reminder that all we want is their peaceful happiness and fulfillment.


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: civilization; dhimmis; dhimmitude; islam; mohammed; terror
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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To: Urbane_Guerilla

Those are unlikely to work.

It it trying to use intelectual arguments on individuals with only the capacity for emotional thinking.

In addition many of those who are invested in the cult of islam are told they personally are direct decendants Mohamed. In a culture where family ties are blood sacred, you can overcome the notion of direct lineage.

In fact how many of the Islamic factions are factions because of "who is a decendant."

The only way to stop the cult of islam is unquestioned victory Ulysses S. Grant style.


101 posted on 12/17/2006 6:12:35 AM PST by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: BIGLOOK

Islam IS tribalism.

It is a form of tribal governance.

In order for islam to really die out you would have to genetically conclusivly prove they are not really direct decendants of Mohamed. If there is no PERCIEVED blood connection there is less of an emotional wall.


102 posted on 12/17/2006 6:24:56 AM PST by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: JNL

anecdotes do not disprove the rule.

the london bomber was such a "quiet boy".


103 posted on 12/17/2006 6:27:34 AM PST by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: Caesar Soze
Re 91:

A perfect example why we are probably going to lose. The utter lack of imagination and ability to grasp the Main Idea.

Propaganda can be anything from subtle to overt, depending on the audience. But the essential idea is the essential idea. You need essential ideas. How you put them across is another matter. What is so difficult about that?

If you read my entire post, you will see that my wish is for clever Americans with the means to do so conduct the propaganda.

No where do I suggest that a sledgehammmer be used on anyone's head, and it would be stupid in most circumstances to use one, but not all.

Where the heck did you ever get the idea that I was suggesting that moslems read Free Republic to have their heads straightened out? Wow.

And the marxist bit? Wow again. Talk about missing the point.

The point is to demoralize mohammed worshippers and make them question their own thoughts, exactly the way they do to us. It could be by way of logical analysis, but it can also be directed to their emotions, and there are a lot of those, including resentment toward those who are exploiting you, as the rich, comfortable and powerful mohammed-worshippers do the poor ones.

moslems have bountiful hatred. It is to our benefit to have then direct it at each other rather than us.

104 posted on 12/17/2006 6:29:31 AM PST by Urbane_Guerilla
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To: Urbane_Guerilla

Your premis is all wrong. Islam is not Mohammed worship. Allah is worshipped. Mohammed is the messenger.


105 posted on 12/17/2006 6:30:20 AM PST by bert (K.E. N.P. Rozerem commercials give me nightmares)
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To: JNL

"This is a broad brush we are painting here."

Yep. The same brush Muslims paint Christians with.


106 posted on 12/17/2006 6:30:51 AM PST by bonfire
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To: Urbane_Guerilla

.....I do not believe it.....

What you believe on the matter is absolutely, totally irrelevant. You are completely wrong inspite of a blinding revelation that forced you yo write the post.

Revelation or no, you are still the author of baseless drivel.


107 posted on 12/17/2006 6:34:29 AM PST by bert (K.E. N.P. Rozerem commercials give me nightmares)
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To: Jemian
You are absolutely correct.

I work with a Palestinian Muslim fella, we trade ideas and theologies frequently. I must say, this guy is really lost.

One moment he will share how Islam is tolerant and loving, then on the other hand blast Christians and Jews as murderers, rapist and so forth. One comment was how Christians ripped babies from the wombs of their mothers in Kosovo.

Wonder where he learned this? Betcha from the imam at his local mosque.

Pray for them. Gently share the love of Jesus. Don't try to convince them your right, plant the seed of Christ in their lives and pray the Holy Spirit water the seed.

We have a Christian guy at work that gets into these verbal volleys of who's right and who's wrong. They both get all worked up and disjointed.
108 posted on 12/17/2006 6:38:55 AM PST by servantboy777
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To: longtermmemmory

So I assume that the Oklahoma bombing proves the same thing?

At 1.5 Billion people we'd better get used to Muslims being around for a long time. In all religions there are good and bad people.....bombing their cities and converting them to christianity is one of the more laughable retarded ramblings of AC....

Oh well flame away...


109 posted on 12/17/2006 6:39:48 AM PST by JNL
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To: Urbane_Guerilla

Summary of Islam: a small percentage of Muslims commit murder in the name of God, while the other 99% endorse the murders by doing absolutely nothing to stop them.


110 posted on 12/17/2006 6:40:14 AM PST by pleikumud
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To: Jemian
Please forgive my having to post such an uncharitable view of Islam on Sunday morning, but I didn't write the Koran, the hadith, ad nauseam. And this is Sunday morning.

Before I do the unavoidable deconstruction of a paragraph posted by you, it is time to point out that the thousand years of murder in the Islamic areas is best understood in terms such as these:
1. "The Arab understands best power and vengeance."
2. "The Arab is either at your throat or at your feet.
Better he be at your feet."

Googling Churchill's view of Islamic societies, found in his classic The River War, is most enlightening.

"Third, actually evangelize. We have Moslem's in the US living and working. They're in our neighborhoods. Have you gone to visit them? Have you established a relationship with them? Are you seeking to convert your unsaved neighbor? My guess is no. I really think God has brought them to the US so we will evangelize them. We do a poor job of sending evangelists to them so God brings them to us. He actually loves those heathen! Can you believe it? Perhaps God doesn't know they lop off the heads of the good guys and don't deserve to go to heaven. He wants them to hear about Jesus. We should obey.

Given the Muslin concepts of tarquayya and kitman (holy hypocrisy), anything a Muslim tells a non-Muslim is of most questionable reliability. Judeo-Christian cultures are virtually alone in demanding truthfulness of their believers.

When a Muslim is allowed, even required to lie to the unbeliever, American style conversation is impossible.

Muslims came to the USA because of a sloppy immigration policy. Surely you are not confusing G*g with ICE or The Swimmer?

Sending evangelists to Islamic areas results in the evangelists being beaten, imprisoned, tortured, being killed, or all of the above. What have your fellow Christians done to you that you would send them to such a certain fate?

As a Christian, one believes God to be omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenelovent. I wonder how you can postulate that G*d doesn't know about Muslim head lopping, and the rest of a long list assorted, sordid forbidden behaviors?

As I remember, Jesus walked the Middle East, his religious forebearers were at Sinai, which I believe was in the Middle East, and descendants of both branches of the Judeo-Christian faith were once numerous in the Middle East until they were killed off by Muslims.

Muslims know about Christians and Jews. They simply made a decision to devote their lives to killing them.

Evil does exist. Islam is evil. So are its believers.

We in the West will have to accept this, learn to live with it, and offer the Muslims a choice. That choice must be -Have a Muslim Reformation and adopt acceptable beliefs OR be killed.

Islam is antithetical to America and the entirity of Judeo-Christian cultures. Only a complete reformation of Islam will make it acceptable.

One last question for you - Given the centrality of holy hypocracy in Islam, can we afford to take their word for anything? If not, either the Islamic cultures or the Judeo-Christian cultures will be left after the religious war we are now in is finished.

I post this not to belittle what you posted, but to point out that we in American have many unjustified beliefs about Islam. Some beliefs are antithetical and can't be reconciled.
111 posted on 12/17/2006 6:44:05 AM PST by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon Liberty, it is essential to examine principles, - -)
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To: wai-ming
How you gonna deal with people who won't listen to reason or logic?

Reason and logic are only a couple of means of propaganda. Most moslems are irrational by upbringing and impervious to reason and logic, altho some can grasp it.

This is very frustrating.

Do folks understand what propaganda is?

Let me give you an example: the MSM engages in it every single day, to disparage America and discourage Americans.

But they do so indirectly, and by constant repetition. They don't say "we hate America," even tho that is the theme of their propaganda, that America is bad.

There are a million ways to say "you are going to Hell" without ever saying you are going to Hell.

112 posted on 12/17/2006 6:44:07 AM PST by Urbane_Guerilla
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To: longtermmemmory
it is trying to use intelectual arguments on individuals with only the capacity for emotional thinking

OMG ... this is so discouraging, if even Free Republic does not get it.

Where oh where do I ever say use intellectual arguments? I said propaganda, which may include intellectual arguments, but probably not, especially with moslems.

If you say "use ivory soap" a thousand times, you are not making an intellectual argument, but if you say it to any given group of human beings often enough, a substantial portion will use ivory soap.

The daily violence conducted by mohammed-worshippers is propaganda, in case folks do not realize it. The message is: we are too wild and crazy to be dealt with, so give up and don't even try.

It is succeeding only too well, when we have ridiculous words like "islamist" used by our most brilliant writers.

113 posted on 12/17/2006 6:54:54 AM PST by Urbane_Guerilla
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To: Cicero
Cicero wrote:
I think these unpleasant facts need to be confronted, not swept under the rub and ignored. The only way to deal with the problem of Islam, which is a serious threat to the survival of civilization, is to tell the truth about it.
Conversion of Muslims isn't easy, because their family and friends will kill anyone who conversts. But I believe it can be done, and must be done. The only alternatives are surrender or bloodshed on an unprecedented scale. That's what will happen if we don't wake up and confront the facts in front of us.

How to defeat Islam?

As momentous as the task appears in practice, it is really quite simple in principle, as succinctly stated by Ann Coulter in the aftermath of the World Trade Center attack:
1. Invade their countries
2. Kill their leaders
3. Convert them to Christianity

Indeed. It is "as simple as that", and as difficult, as well.

Do anything less, and Islam survives - and, eventually, may prevail in its goal for world domination.

Since we cannot afford to do anything less and still have the expectation "to win", then it is _The West_ that must recognize the enemy and muster the resolve, stomach, and wherewithal to see this struggle to its completion.

- John

114 posted on 12/17/2006 7:01:55 AM PST by Fishrrman
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To: Urbane_Guerilla
The Resurrection of Christ is in the Word of God.

When I said the word "system" when I wrote "Christians entire belief system", I was referring to the whole faith is based system on the fact that the Word of God is inerrant. Belief in the Resurrection is a fundamental part of that belief.

I can walk around all day long and believe my hamster Chris was raised from the dead and worship him. That does not make it true. If I had 500 people testify under penalty of death it was true, that might be different.

Christ himself told us, he is the Word of God. I guess he was ill informed as well

Your arrogance is especially ugly when coated in spiritually

115 posted on 12/17/2006 7:03:07 AM PST by Popman ("What I was doing wasn't living, it was dying. I really think God had better plans for me.")
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To: bert
Your premise is all wrong. Islam is not Mohammed worship. Allah is worshipped. Mohammed is the messenger.

Oh man. Wow. It is amazing to see Freepers take offense on behalf of the mohammed-worshippers.

You say they dont worship mohammed, and they say they dont worship mohammed.

OTOH, I do say they worship mohammed. Anyone who says they do not is falling for the con game mohammed was playing in fabricating his religion. Mohammed made up the religion to have people worship him, just like any garden variety sociopath does thru whatever means they devise. In mohammed's case, it was religion, like Jim Jones.

mohammed is the associate of allah who, have you noticed, doesnt exist.

116 posted on 12/17/2006 7:03:55 AM PST by Urbane_Guerilla
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To: word_warrior_bob
Penn & Teller were prevented by Showtime from doing an expose' on Mohammed, how insane is that?

Considering even CNN let Glenn Beck do a expose', I would agree.

117 posted on 12/17/2006 7:04:56 AM PST by Popman ("What I was doing wasn't living, it was dying. I really think God had better plans for me.")
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To: Popman
Your arrogance is especially ugly when coated in spiritually

Arrogant I well might be, but please do not accuse me of being spiritual, let alone coating anything I say in spirituality. I can say a lot of things about spirituality, but the only relevant thing is that I am not.

It is not I but Paul who says if you do not believe in the literal physical resurrection of Jesus then dont even bother. You probably know the cite.

And you are far far more intelligent than I if you understand the concept of Logos.

But what is so discouraging, is that many Christians are no different from leftists and liberals in their uselessness or worse when confronting islam.

Many Christians do not have the intellectual fortitude to confront islam. In effect, their pov is: I am religious, they are religious, we have more in common than not, and if I criticize them, the same arguments will be used against me.

This, I believe, is one major reason our President cannot face the truth or tell it.

It appears that free men and not Christians will be fighting this war on the field of truth.

118 posted on 12/17/2006 7:26:18 AM PST by Urbane_Guerilla
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To: Urbane_Guerilla
Many Christians do not have the intellectual fortitude to confront islam.

Spoken like a left winger.

I do realize Christians have been systematically portrayed by the MSM as willing sheeple that will follow any fire breathing preacher and check their mind at the door of the church. That number is a small majority.

Anyone who actually thinks about the best way to confront Islam without painting all Muslims as radical jihadists is written off as weak willed or as a tool of Islam as you accuse me. Nothing is further from the truth.

It appears that free men and not Christians will be fighting this war on the field of truth.

You have no idea what you are talking about

The Christian who is willing to confront Muslims in truth, love and hope is the only way to win this war of ideas. We will need superior firepower to rein in the real wacko's to protect ourselves, but to win the hearts and minds will not be at the point of a gun.

Believe me, I know. I have supported and worked with missionaries who have been working in the Sudan. These people put their literal lives on the line every single day to reach Muslims. They have lost children, property in their work.

These people who have walked to walk and talked the talk.

119 posted on 12/17/2006 8:01:56 AM PST by Popman ("What I was doing wasn't living, it was dying. I really think God had better plans for me.")
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To: Urbane_Guerilla
Your sympathy with psychopathic hatred, on the other hand, has to do with your insecurity with your own faith.

I have no sympathy for hatred. I despise it most when it seems to be coming from one who professes to be among the Christian faithful. My soul is too dear for me to abandon the teachings of my faith for Earthly gain & personal gain is where you're coming from here.

In order for me to go with your first point, I'd have to lie. As I said in my earlier post to you, "Hell" is the death of the soul, the grave. It is a state, not a place.

What makes you think I'm insecure about my faith? Because I don't agree with all of the points? My response to wasn't telling you it shouldn't be done, but instead it was a matter of doing it in a way where it might be more effective. You are too focused on yourself & what you want.

Your insecurity is why our President, a Christian, is unable to speak the truth about mohammed-worship.

I don't think I'm the reason the President can't be more frank about the ROP. He's not a preacher, so conversion of souls is a bit outside of his job description.

He is frightened about the implications of that truth about Jesus worship.

I disagree & don't think he is frightened about the implications.

In other words, he does not have the intellectual capacity to distinguish between the two.

Lacks the intellectual capacity? ::rolls eyes:: What name do you go by over at DU?

120 posted on 12/17/2006 9:02:24 AM PST by GoLightly
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To: Urbane_Guerilla
You are so correct. This cult was invented by mohammed, who in his epileptic fits manipulated and perverted the traditional beliefs of allah held by the nomadic tribes of his time. An example of his perverted manipulation can be found at this web site:

http://www.islam-watch.org/Shabana/RealIslam/Chapter2.htm
An excerpt

We all believe that one who claims to be a messenger of God must be endowed with spiritual qualities such as love, compassion, honesty, self-restraint etc. Muhammad was a lecherous, immoral and unethical man, bereft of human qualities. He was a ruthless mass murderer, a lustful sex maniac, a shameless pedophile, and a cunning assassin, a marauding chieftain, a schizophrenic narcissist, and many other vile qualities that disqualify him to be a decent human being, let alone a messenger of God.

Still, we have to admit that Muhammad was one of the greatest geniuses that our world has ever produced. Not only that, he was also a great manipulator as well as a great liar. He lied when it was necessary to manipulate people; he used force where his manipulations faced resistance from his opponents. He threatened them with Allah’s wrath where his own force against them was unlikely to bring them to their knees.

The above conclusions can easily be drawn from Quran, which tells us how he used his manipulative power to free himself from some of the important social norms of the Pagans, yet being able to use his manipulative power to keep them tied to some of the weird norms he laid out for the purpose of serving his own purpose. This fact will become clear, when the following declarations he had made are taken into consideration. Muhammad declared that a Muslim man cannot call an adopted child his son, nor can he give him all the love he is supposed to give to his biological son, as the adopted child does not carry his blood. At the same time, he forbade his followers from marrying his wives, as he declared them to be their mothers. This prohibition applied even to those Muslims who had no blood ties with him or his wives, for he himself made it clear that he was not the father of any of his followers.

His declaration that he was not the father of any of his followers was designed at granting him the freedom to have sex with their women of his choice. This declaration was also intended to make his sexual relationship with Zainab, the would-be divorced wife of his adopted son Zaid, permissible for him.

Armed with the declarations that entitled him to have sex with any women of his choosing, he decided to create a situation, which would force Zainab to succumb to his caprices. With these intentions in his mind, Muhammad asked her mother and brother to give her in marriage to Zaid, Muhammad’s freed slave-man, who was already happily married and had a son.

Because Zaid was an ex-slave and a married man, they rejected his proposal. Infuriated, he produced a revelation, reading as follows, to force them to bow down to his order.

“It is not fitting for a Believer, man or woman, when a matter has been decided by Allah and His Apostle, to have any option about their decision: if any one disobeys Allah and His Apostle, he is indeed on a clearly wrong Path.”

The “revelation” had its intended impact and they gave in to his dictate. Zainab and Zaid got married. Their marriage gave Muhammad immense satisfaction and pleasure, prompting him to hold a grand party to celebrate his success. Muhammad could now freely have unlimited sex with Zainab, as she became wife of Zaid, his ex-slave.
121 posted on 12/17/2006 10:09:20 AM PST by Red_Devil 232 (VietVet - USMC All Ready On The Right? All Ready On The Left? All Ready On The Firing Line!)
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To: Popman

I appreciate what you've said, but if we don't wipe out a significant number of these people and have us or them overthrow their regimes we will need a few hundred thousand missionaries working for 100 years to change their minds.

Many of these populations have been brainwashed, while trying to convert them to Christianity may change their hearts in time, they are more appropriately in need of professional de-programmers to release from the dangerous deeath cult they belong to.


122 posted on 12/17/2006 11:55:00 AM PST by word_warrior_bob
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To: Urbane_Guerilla

bump


123 posted on 12/17/2006 11:56:10 AM PST by VOA
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To: JNL
"In all religions there are good and bad people"

There are indeed good an bad in all religions. The larger issue is not about individual members of religion, but the religions themselves. Are all religions good? Can a religion be good if it teaches and adheres to policies of intolerance?

There were good and bad people within the nations that made war upon free nations in WWII. We did not respond with war because all people of the enemy nations were bad, but because the ideology that ruled the enemy nations was bad.

As for converting Muslims to Christianity, I've noted a number of posting to this thread that have me seeing a "Christian" mirror image of "Islam" teetering on the brink of forced conversions. My personal conviction holds that only those conversions to Christianity that are made of free will are true conversions.

The world is today in the midst of a religious war. Islam has brought this war upon the world. It is near impossible to look upon the barbarity of Islamic conflicts in Africa that have killed hundreds of thousands and made millions more refugees, Islamic terror against Hindus in India, against Buddhists in Thailand, against Christians in Indonesia and Lebanon, against Jews wherever they reside, and against Europeans and Americans, many that have no claimed personal religion, Muslim against Muslim in Afghanistan, Iraq, Algeria, Somalia and not see Islam as the single thread that binds all these conflicts together.

Your replies on this thread have been critical of others, yet, not a single solution have you offered. The old adage applies, "If you're not part of the solution, you are part of the problem."
124 posted on 12/17/2006 12:36:33 PM PST by backtothestreets (Invite Jesus to pray with you.)
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To: GladesGuru
What have your fellow Christians done to you that you would send them to such a certain fate?

In my case, you should change that wording to: what have I done to my fellow Christians that they would send me to such a certain fate. (Hint, hint)

On this sentence ...Perhaps God doesn't know they lop off the heads of the good guys and don't deserve to go to heaven..., apparently I should have used a /s marker. I was being sarcastic to make a point. Of course God knows what the moslems do.

Ecclesiastes says there is a time for war and a time for peace, a time to kill and a time to heal, a time for love and a time for hate. My husband and youngest daughter are working very hard to persuade and convert. My son is in Iraq doing the work that happens when attempts at conversion fail. There is time for aggressive evangelism and a time for engaging the enemy. I have no doubt that if moslems would kill us if they could. It is either them or us. It had better be us.

125 posted on 12/17/2006 12:37:31 PM PST by Jemian (PAM of JT ~~ If life were "fair", we'd all go to hell. I'm glad there is grace.)
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To: word_warrior_bob
This whole thread is very interesting from the standpoint of the amount of ignorance of Islamic concepts.

Regardless of what Urbane Guerrilla thinks, worship of Mohammad is strictly prohibited by the Muslim faith.

1. YOU ARE GOING TO HELL - Telling Muslims that is useless. They will never believe it.

2. YOU ARE BEING EXPLOITED BY RICH COWARDS - Islam almost conquered the world way before Arabia become rich. Most Muslims think the wealth the Arabs have now is a direct result of being blessed by Allah. (that will convince them) Anyway all the Muslims in the world think America is exploiting them

6. THE KORAN IS A VIOLENT, INCOHERENT MESS. - Yes, the Koran is an interesting book from a historically perspective. Nothing at all like the Bible. Muslims already know the Koran is a difficult book to understand. They need three companion books to began to understand it. All Muslims already know this.

9. THE WORSHIP OF MOHAMMED HAS NO GOLDEN RULE, NO FORGIVENESS OF OTHERS, AND IS LOVELESS. - Islam, not Mohammedanism has no GOLDEN RULE, it does have the concept of forgiveness. Submission is never about love.

Bottom line is the point of this thread is simply a rant and some of it is incoherent nonsense.

As for wiping out vast numbers of these people, raining down death and destruction in the long run will not work. Yes, the extreme radicals need to be dealt with extreme prejudice. Even if that means killing a million of them, they are a cancer on the world

In the long run Muslims themselves will rein back in their religion, or plunge the world back into the 8th century. I believe they will not let that happen. We will have very little to say about that outcome.

We are along for the ride.

126 posted on 12/17/2006 12:42:28 PM PST by Popman ("What I was doing wasn't living, it was dying. I really think God had better plans for me.")
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To: backtothestreets

There is a solution..stop trying to force your version of christianity on me or anyone else. Thw whole idea that by converting and or gemocide on all Muslims is a solution to the present problem is laughable at best.

I mean it when I say that this is a hate thread. A couple of born again christians with the deep belief that they are right and all others are wrong scares the frig out of me.

Again I state that there are 1.5 billion muslims....get used to it.

Am I defending their religion...damn rights I am. I believe that freedom of religion is a key...a cornerstone of our own freedoms.

The idea of focing others to believe what I believe and taking that freedom away sickens me.


127 posted on 12/17/2006 12:44:17 PM PST by JNL
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To: Popman

I don't want to be along for that ride. I have little faith that they will clean up their religion before one nut nukes an American city.

Reigning massive death upon them force them to expedite this process of cleaning up their religion and rejecting radical leaders.


128 posted on 12/17/2006 1:12:31 PM PST by word_warrior_bob
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To: JNL

Pretty much all religions believe theirs is the chosen path to heaven and pity all the other heathens who have chosen the wrong path and they will pay in the afterlife.

The difference is there is one "religion" that is hell bent on global domination, their fervor is greater than the Nazi "religion". They are not afraid to openly speak of the next holocaust they plan, they openly threat to use nuclear weapons on the west. They will gladly sell nuclear weapons to radical terrorists.

This is a "hate" thread? Who's hate? Self preservation is not hate. If you openly threaten to kill me and my family I choose to take you at your word and kill you first. It's time we take these lunatics at their word.


129 posted on 12/17/2006 1:18:02 PM PST by word_warrior_bob
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To: JNL
"There is a solution..stop trying to force your version of christianity on me or anyone else."

I have not done what you accuse me of.

"Am I defending their religion...damn rights I am. I believe that freedom of religion is a key...a cornerstone of our own freedoms."

The first two-thirds of the history of our nation would be better defined as a tolerance of religion rather than freedom of religion. It is only the more recent third of our history, beginning in 1925 that states and citizens have been stripped of their constitutional rights by the US Supreme Court, to make laws on the establishment of religion, speech, press and assembly. Only Congress was prohibited by the First Amendment from making such laws. The laws states and citizens had enacted to the point were tolerant. It is only since the courts have stripped these constitutional rights that the forces of religious intolerance have mustered strength.

"The idea of focing others to believe what I believe and taking that freedom away sickens me."

The idea of others forcing their beliefs on anyone sickens me, and their force must be answered with force. To simply allow Muslim violence to continue because they number 1.5 billion is absurd. If sheer numbers determine right from wrong, and with 2.3 billion Christians among their number, your argument based upon numbers is flawed.
130 posted on 12/17/2006 1:29:03 PM PST by backtothestreets (Invite Jesus to pray with you.)
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To: word_warrior_bob
"It's time we take these lunatics at their word."

Especially when we see these lunitics making good on their word throughout the world.
131 posted on 12/17/2006 1:35:54 PM PST by backtothestreets (Invite Jesus to pray with you.)
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To: JNL
Seriously there are bad Christians and bad Muslims.

True enough.

And I'm certain I could find a very nice headhunter in Borneo, someone who would give you the shirt off of his back.

And in his mind's eye, sacrificing and eating human flesh is necessary for him to maintain his spiritual relationship.

In other words, all we CAN do really is generalize, because if we were to comment individually, we would have to write 3 BILLION stories, one for each person.

And generally speaking, the Christian world is quick to squash those nutball 'religious' movements which pose real physical threats to others. (please dont cite that old argumentative standby, the Crusades, because that was nearly 150 generations ago)

On the other hand, can you please explain to me why it is that those 3 billion SUPPOSEDLY GOOD AND RIGHTEOUS Muslims cannot stop their extremist killing sects, those with chapters in every Muslim country on earth.

132 posted on 12/17/2006 1:36:43 PM PST by Edit35
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To: backtothestreets

But you are equating all Muslims with terror, that's why the 1.5 billion number is so important. There are muslims who go to work worry about who's going to pay the cable bill this month etc...


There are lunatics in every religion. Not all muslims believe that you should convert. Most if not all muslims accept christ as a prophet and respect that.

I know I'm talking to myself here but when people start beliving that their religion is better and or must be forced on others... then we have issues.


133 posted on 12/17/2006 1:39:30 PM PST by JNL
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To: word_warrior_bob
Reigning massive death upon them force them to expedite this process of cleaning up their religion and rejecting radical leaders.

Then you have little understand of the Muslim mind. All that will do is radicalize millions of them

Understand, I'm in the column you check off that says Islam is a cult.

They have a cult like mindset. Punishing millions of Muslims will only make them more hardened and more violent

134 posted on 12/17/2006 1:44:34 PM PST by Popman ("What I was doing wasn't living, it was dying. I really think God had better plans for me.")
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To: Popman

Then we'll have to kill them too, until a vast majority of muslims are peaceful, like Christians are.


135 posted on 12/17/2006 2:24:51 PM PST by word_warrior_bob
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To: MojoWire

I have no problem going back to the crusades. This was the crushing of the barbarian hordes (who started the aggression) and this put them in check for a while.

We need the same strategy now, the muslim hordes have risen they need to be put in check until they can't pose a threat to normal people for another 500-1000 years.

Thin the heard.


136 posted on 12/17/2006 2:27:12 PM PST by word_warrior_bob
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To: JNL
"But you are equating all Muslims with terror"

No, I am equating one religion with terror. That is not to say people of other religions, nor agnostics or atheists do not have their own terrorists, but Islam does teach and practice terrorism, even if all Muslims do not practice it. It was no different among the Shinto Japanese of Imperial Japan, the Germans in Nazi Germany, nor the Fascist of Italy. There were good people among these nations that suffered greatly because many of their own kind forced themselves violently onto others, and the good did not rise up to stop their own kind from participating in the violence. Are you aware Muslims are prohibited from interfering on behalf of non-Muslims in Jihad?

Islam has painted everyone into a corner, including Muslims. The options are few. I truly wish there were good options on the table that allowed all to live in peace. Peace is always the most desirable existence. Islam is at odds with peace, even in predominately Muslim states and populations. There is no peace in Islam, although I agree a great many Muslims desire peace. They are in as bad a predicament as non-Muslims.
137 posted on 12/17/2006 4:28:56 PM PST by backtothestreets (Invite Jesus to pray with you.)
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To: backtothestreets

Bull and ignorant propoganda. If you ever sat down and read the Koran I'd actually believe you.

Much like the Bible the Koran can be twisted to any agenda.

The Koran does not advocate violence if it does I'd like you to point out where.


138 posted on 12/17/2006 4:42:42 PM PST by JNL
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To: Urbane_Guerilla
11. Muslims cannot eat pork because cannibalism is forbidden to Muslims..
139 posted on 12/17/2006 4:49:32 PM PST by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole)
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To: JNL
"If you ever sat down and read the Koran I'd actually believe you."

Then as I have read the Koran, as well as the Bible and the Torah, be good to your word and believe my word.

Here is but one of many verses from the Koran;
"Take therefore none of them for friends, till they have fled their homes for the cause of God. If they turn back, then seize them, and slay them wherever ye find them; but take none as friend or helper, ..."

I wish you well if it is peace you seek, but your lies against me have me believing you mean to insight the very hatred you falsely claim to abhor.
140 posted on 12/17/2006 7:33:12 PM PST by backtothestreets (Invite Jesus to pray with you.)
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To: backtothestreets

Still say it is a hate thread. This is what depresses me about FR sometimes.

Kudos to you though for being sane, intelligent and honest.


141 posted on 12/18/2006 5:36:39 AM PST by JNL
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To: backtothestreets
It is even harder when the Saudi published textbooks the Muslim students use throughout their years of education teach that Christians are swine, Jews are apes, it is the purpose of every Muslim to commit themselves to Jihad, and to die a martyr is glorious.

Everyone needs to understand that this school of thought is supported by the wahabbist from saudi arabia.
142 posted on 12/18/2006 8:08:01 AM PST by bayouranger (The 1st victim of islam is the person who practices the lie.)
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To: Urbane_Guerilla
This is an excellent thread Urbane. Don't be disappointed by those who totally miss your point. Propaganda is a dry and esoteric field. My own modest pieces (linked to on my home page)have, over the last year, racked up more than 2000 views each. I just checked the views on your piece, it hit 2213 in just one day. Despite the naysayers (more often than not they were far off your core points vis-a-vis propaganda and the effect it could have in deconstructing the Mohammedan Death Cult), you have pulled in and stimulated many readers with this piece. As I said in my brief comment earlier, it's well structured and thought provoking.

I'd like to address each or your points one by one, but right now I don't have the time to indulge.

However, for now here are a couple of superb references which I think you will enjoy and can certainly assist you in your analysis.

Ibn Warraq is a real live ex-Muslim who can give us the down low on Mad Mo's dirty cult of death. He has written two books that I'm aware of. Below are links to his two books on Amazon, and one top review for each book:
/////////////////
Why I Am Not a Muslim

555 of 696 people found the following review helpful:

A review by a former Muslim, May 12, 2002 Reviewer: A reader

In Why I Am Not A Muslim, Ibn Warraq, exposes the bitter truth about Islam without sugarcoating it. He is learned and his book is well documented. He lashes out at the western intellectuals who instead of condemning the assassination order of a savage man like Khomeini against Salman Rushdi, chose to criticize Rushdi for his book The Satanic Verses because it was not "politically correct". Warraq talks about the brutal treatments of all those who fell under the domination of Islam, from the time of Muhammad to the present days. He talks about the minorities, philosophers, women and slaves in Islam. Jews were massacred and exiled by Muhammad in Medina and Kheibar; their belongings were distributed among the "believers", their women and children taken as slaves. This heinous act of barbarism was repeated time and again throughout history with Christians, Zoroastrians, Hindus, and in recent years with Ahmedies, Baha'is and other minorities in Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, India, Syria and everywhere Islam reined.

Warraq talks about the origin of Islam, its pagan background and the influence of Judaism, Christianity and Zoroastrianism on Muhammad. He talks about the origin of Allah in Arab culture, about the early days of Muhammad as a preacher and his rivalry with another storyteller "Al Nadir" and his revenge against him. Warraq traces back the origin of many Islamic rituals to Arab superstitions and Muhammad's strange belief in jinns, demons and other shadowy beings. He also describes how Muhammad rehashed the biblical nonsense about creation, Noah's Ark, birth of Christ etc. while misunderstanding a lot of it, like confusing Mary the mother of Christ with Miriam sister of Aaron, or the Christian belief in Trinity. You will learn about Muhammad's bizarre view of cosmology, science, history, and medicine. (He prescribed drinking the urine of camel as a remedy against stomachache!).

Then you will learn about Muhammad's metamorphosis from preacher to despot. How his call for tolerance, when he was still in Mecca and weak changed to the cry of killing and looting when he became powerful in Medina. You will learn how Muhammad encouraged his handful of followers to attack the caravans, kill the men, rape the women and bring the booty (20% for himself) to please Allah, while assuring them that if they are killed their rewards will be young boys, rivers of wine, and many hurries in the other world. All what Warraq says is backed by Quran and Ahadith.

The reader becomes familiar with Muhammad's favorite way of eliminating his opponents, namely assassination. Asma Bint Marwan a poetess who wrote against the prophet was assassinated by his order in the middle of the night while nursing her infant. Her five small children where forced to convert to Islam. Muhammad's hit list also included Ka'b Ibn al-Ashraf and Abu Rafi who spoke against him and had to be taken out traitorously. This policy was adopted by Muslims throughout the history and is being practiced up to this day. What we call terrorism, to a Muslim is Jihad (holy war). The much-publicized fetwa against Rushdi is an example. Among other things we learn about Muhammad's preference for young girls (Ayesha was 9 years old when he consummated his "marriage" with her) rather at an advanced age and how he is unabashed to make Allah reveal Quranic verses to justify his lust for women and his sexual appetite.

Warraq makes a thorough study of the totalitarian nature of Islam. He even goes as far as to compare the impact of monotheism on human rights versus polytheism and atheism. For all those who still wonder why Muslims hate so much the west I recommend reading this book. There is a whole chapter dedicated to this subject.

Warraq talks about "Arab Imperialism and Islamic Colonialism". He explains eloquently how through Islam, many civilized nations lost their identity, their dignity and humanity to bow in front of a savage god of a bunch of uncultured Arabs and follow the wimps of a fanatic and schizophrenic bloodthirsty madman of Arabia. Islam is the enemy of science, of freethinking, of reason and of human rights. It acts as a powerful break on the advancement of civilization. Warraq keenly points out that "Islamic Civilization" is a contradiction in terms. You can either be Islamic or civilized. In another place he argues that also "Islamic Philosophy" is a contradiction in terms, because philosophy was regarded as a "foreign science, which led to heresy, doubt, and total unbelief". Brilliant minds like Zacharia Razi and Avicena never believed in Islam and were attacked by Muslims. More recent intellectuals and freethinkers don't fare better. For example Ali Dashti, the brilliant scholar and the author of "23 years"; a book written about Muhammad and his 23 years of prophetic life, was incarcerated while in his 80s during Khomeni's rule and died in prison. In Warraq's own words: "Thus we had the spectacle of periodic persecution of various group considered either doctrinally suspect or politically subversive; individuals (philosophers, poets, theologians, scientists, rationalists, dualists, freethinkers, and mystics) were imprisoned, tortured, crucified, mutilated, and hanged; their writings burned. Significantly, none of the heretical works of Ibn Rawandi, Ibn Warraq, Ibn al-Muqaffa, and al-Razi has survived. Other individuals are forced to flee from one ruler to another more tolerant ruler (e.g. al-Amidi). Some were exiled or banished (Averroes). Many were forced to disguise their true views and opinions by difficult or ambiguous language. Those who managed to get away with blasphemy were those protected by the powerful and influential."

And in Leaving Islam: Apostates Speak Out

202 of 239 people found the following review helpful:

Islam Smothers Dissent and Basic Human Rights, July 10, 2003

Reviewer: "jbgordon38" (Tesuque, NM) - See all my reviews Ibn Warraq, who has several Fatwas issued against him by Islamist clerics has bravely sallied forth to explicate the tenuous status of former Muslims who for a variety of reasons have abandoned the faith. These apostates are under the threat of death given the clerical rulings in Islam. Some of the testifiers have been brave enough to use their real names!

Most prominent among these testimonials is the clear evidence of the lack of basic human rights as allegedly guaranteed under the UN Declaration of Human Rights circa 1948. Muslim countries have signed the UN declaration but consider the act as religiously correct dissimultude-taqqiya in Arabic.

Among the more stunning revelations among the testimonials is the genocide wreaked on the Bengalis by the Islamic Paki overlords in the early 70's of the last century. An estimated 3.5 million Bengalis were slaughtered in this religious Jihad. Some of you may be old enough to remember the plaintive Beatles tune: Bengladesh. This genocide cries out the certification before the World Court and prosecution of some of the organizers of this heinous event.

Testimonials of former Muslim women, brave enough to reveal their actual identity, clearly indicate the second class status in violation of the UN declaration of human rights.

Former converts to Islam who are included in these testimonials have given witness to the lack of basic human rights and the atavistic male domination prevalent in Muslim cricles and countries.

Overall, Ibn Warraq-his nom de guerre, has given us a powerful insight into the fundamental failings of the islamic faith to build reform from within and protect basic human rights. It is no wonder several Fatwas demanding his death have been issued. He's very religiously incorrect, but courageous.

His works deserve a wide readership in a western world ignorant of the fundamentals of the islamic faith.
///////////////////////
I would like a chance to address some of the points on your list, and will be able to over the next few days. Thanks for posting this stimulating thread!
143 posted on 12/18/2006 8:49:03 AM PST by starbase (Understanding Written Propaganda (click "starbase" to learn 22 manipulating tricks!!))
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To: JNL
"Kudos to you though for being sane, intelligent and honest."

My sanity and intelligence might be judged differently by others, but I will always strive to stay honest throughout.

There are times when the world, not just FR depresses me. I'd make myself a liar if I were to say Islam did not trouble me deeply. I want more than anything for people everywhere to live in a just peace with freedom.

By my very nature, which I never asked to have engraved in me, I stand opposed to those that seek to force themselves upon others unjustly. I would intercede physically if I witnessed a child being abused, a woman being attacked, or a neighbor's home being burglarized. I even worry myself at times because if I were on the scene of a store or bank robbery, I might not have the sense to let the robber take the money and run, but might place my life and the lives of others in jeopardy by physically confronting the robber.

Long before 9-11 I sought knowledge and solutions surrounding what was then primarily regarded an Israeli-Arab conflict. In that quest I looked beyond the immediate area of conflict for peaceful solutions. I was greatly disappointed learning wherever Islam, not necessarily individual Muslims, came into contact with non-Muslim populations, conflict ensued. Too often these were very brutal conflicts.

Maybe the must disturbing memory I ever had of Islamic violence involved only Muslims. It was during the Iran-Iraq War. Iraqi engineers had installed powerful generators in the marsh lands along the borders. At night the generators were powered up. Lacking the military equipment Iraq possessed, the Iranians threw large numbers of land forces against Iraq, many were young boys, worked into a frenzy, armed with nothing more than a knife and Koran, then thrown against the well-armed Iraqi land forces. They would try to attack the Iraqi forces under the stealth of night across the marsh lands that acted as a natural barrier between the two warring factions. It was the marshes that kept Iraqi tanks and heavy equipment from penetrating deep into Iran.

When daylight broke across the marshes, the Iraqi engineers would turn-off the generators and Iraqi soldiers would trudge through the marshes seeking Iranians electrocuted during the night. They collected the bodies. The bodies were used as the base road making material across the marshes that allowed Iraqi equipment deeper penetration into Iran. The Ayatollah never stopped sending young boys to their death, and the Iraqis never stopped using their bodies as road making material.

That image, couple with actual news accounts of Muslim parents sending their young children as suicide bombers, Muslim women being executed, and thousands of Muslims being trampled under hordes of Muslims during Muslim "celebrations" have left a lasting impression on me. Often I find myself reflecting upon the similarity of the use of children as soldiers by Nazi Germany, and the Imperial Japanese using teenage boys as Kamikaze pilots.

I wish there were easy solutions. I just don't see any against a religious ideology that has so little regard for life. We are all in for a rough ride whatever ones personal religious conviction. Despite what we face, I refuse to learn hate and thus cloud what might be good judgment.
144 posted on 12/18/2006 9:51:26 AM PST by backtothestreets (Invite Jesus to pray with you.)
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To: bayouranger
"Everyone needs to understand that this school of thought is supported by the wahabbist from saudi arabia."

People must also understand the most important element used in suicide bombings, and other acts of terrorism is not the fuse, the timing mechanism, the explosives, or the plan. The most important element is the indoctrination of those that would make of themselves suicide bombers or deliver other acts of terrorism.
145 posted on 12/18/2006 9:58:29 AM PST by backtothestreets (Invite Jesus to pray with you.)
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Comment #146 Removed by Moderator

To: Urbane_Guerilla

Every day. Every place. Every time you see one.
LAUGH at them.
Titter, giggle, gape like you're seeing a three-headed, spotted alien.
Treat the rag-draped women walking with their masters like the freak shows they are. Avoid dealing with them at all levels.
Ostracize. Shun.
And laugh.


147 posted on 12/18/2006 10:10:41 AM PST by ClearBlueSky (Whenever someone says it's not about Islam-it's about Islam. Jesus loves you, Allah wants you dead!)
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To: backtothestreets

Well put.


148 posted on 12/19/2006 8:53:55 AM PST by JNL
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To: Popman

"As for wiping out vast numbers of these people, raining down death and destruction in the long run will not work."

May this mere unbeliever ask what you do not understand about the Roman success in dealing with Carthage?

As I remember, the Roman who said "Carthage delenda est" was correct. Like software, once deleted from memory, it stays deleted.

I suggest that the non-Muslim world rallying cry will soon have to be "Islam delenda est".

Worst of all, the Muslims brought it on themselves.


149 posted on 12/19/2006 10:37:43 AM PST by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon Liberty, it is essential to examine principles, - -)
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To: GladesGuru
May this mere unbeliever ask what you do not understand about the Roman success in dealing with Carthage?

Maybe if Carthage had WMD capabilities, the Romans would have dealt with them differently ?

Just how can you apply ancient historically political and battle strategies to today's world?

Sure the basic concepts like fear and death still have their place, but any normal looking Jihad Joe from any one of a dozen countries can hop on a plane, pick up a suitcase nuke from the local Mosque, stop by the ATM to buy his cup of decaffeinated tea in a downtown Manhattan Cafe' while fingering his trigger device waiting to get his virgin.

150 posted on 12/19/2006 4:22:36 PM PST by Popman ("What I was doing wasn't living, it was dying. I really think God had better plans for me.")
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