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10 WAYS TO FIGHT MOHAMMED-WORSHIP
December 16, 2006 | Urbane Guerilla

Posted on 12/16/2006 1:06:03 PM PST by Urbane_Guerilla

10 WAYS TO FIGHT MOHAMMED-WORSHIP

The worship of mohammed, which is inspired by islam (the made-up mess of a book called the koran, the hadith, the sira), has a nihilist view of existence, as do all the totalitarian belief systems thought up and implemented by demented, hating men. Paradise is always on the horizon; destruction, violence, hatred, sadism, pain and death, always on the march toward the ever-receding goal; in this case, until you get the promised sex orgy in heaven.

Bombs and soldiers are not anywhere close to the answer in confronting totalitarianism. Nor is merely the will to win, as if we could gain victory if we only tolerate more deaths by our own civilization, and more of our treasure expended in ever greater amounts.

This is above all an ideological war. It needs to be waged as a battle of ideas.

The audience for this battle splits into two parts, the worshippers of mohammed, and those in the West who cannot or will not recognize their own peril, or who indeed share the totalitarian pov and hate liberty, especially because they hate America.

Here are ten ideas and themes, (they are many more) we can use in the battle.

1. YOU ARE GOING TO HELL. Jihadis and other mohammed-worshippers think they are going to the sex orgy in the sky. This is a very vulnerable mental state. The question of their ultimate other-worldly destination resides in the upper-most part of their psychologies. They must be told at every chance that their destination is HELL.

2. YOU ARE BEING EXPLOITED BY RICH COWARDS. The vast disparity of wealth in the islamic world is rich with possibilities. Poor, ignorant moslems (meaning, most) must be bombarded with the idea that their religion is a sham used by wealthy cowards, who are only interested in saving their own pampered, sheltered lives and their money, but who use mohammed-worship to keep ordinary moslems down.

3. YOUR WOMEN ARE TREATED LIKE GARBAGE. There is always going to be a large segment of moslem women who will be intelligent enough and courageous enough to be susceptible to the truth, and of acting upon it. They can be a valuable fifth column. Even with the relentless intimidation and brain-washing moslem men inflict on moslem women, the human mind is capable of understanding the truth, and the human heart of fighting for the respect and dignity every human being deserves.

4. YOUR CIVILIZATION IS A ZERO. mohammed-worship produces nothing constructive, adds nothing positive, creates nothing, and can take no pride in any accomplishments modern man can think of.

5. MOHAMMED IS THE PERFECT EXAMPLE OF A NARCISSTIC SOCIOPATH. The man worshipped by moslems had all the expected failings of a sociopath. They are familiar to anyone who has studied islam even a little, but they are unknown or denied even by mohammed-worshippers, forget about Westerners. The various aspects of this sociopath's life must be relentlessly presented to the world.

6. THE KORAN IS A VIOLENT, INCOHERENT MESS. The koran, to worshippers of mohammed, is the perfect analogy to the Resurrection for Christians. If you don't believe in the koran as the literal spoken word of allah, then you don't believe the central tenet of the faith. The koran is so incoherent and ridiculous, it cannot be defended except by death threats and intimidation. It must be "deconstructed" in the hundreds of ways possible. All that needs to be shown, literally, is that one word of the koran is false: how difficult can this be, if the propaganda is relentless enough?

7. MOHAMMED-WORSHIP CAN ONLY BE DEFENDED BY DEATH THREATS AND INTIMIDATION. The worship of mohammed is illogical and irrational, hence it can only be defended by death threats and intimidation. As long as those are the only "logical" means available to defend islam (that is, any exercise of human intelligence in any aspect of islam is deemed to be dissing allah), they should be focused upon daily.

8. ISLAM HATES AND DISRESPECTS CHRISTIANS, JEWS, HINDUS, BUDDHISTS AND EVERY NON-WORSHIPPER OF MOHAMMED. This cannot be stressed enough. Everywhere in the world the worship of mohammed goes, it hates and kills. The koran teaches moslems to disrespect and loathe the belief of Jews and Christians. The worship of mohammed deserves no more than what advocates toward others.

9. THE WORSHIP OF MOHAMMED HAS NO GOLDEN RULE, NO FORGIVENESS OF OTHERS, AND IS LOVELESS. This cannot be stressed enough. The golden rule is inherent in human nature. Even moslems, because they are human beings, must understand that the golden rule is the basic rule of existence. But they have been convinced that infidels are subhuman, and thus not worth according respect even in the most basic way.

10. WE LOVE MOSLEMS, WE PITY THEM, WE HOPE FOR THEIR REVERSION TO HUMANITY. This also cannot be stressed enough. mohammed-worshippers are human beings, just like the rest of us, no better and no worse, except their minds have been flooded with fear, intimidation, irrationality and hatred. The propaganda battle must include a constant reminder that all we want is their peaceful happiness and fulfillment.


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: civilization; dhimmis; dhimmitude; islam; mohammed; terror
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To: Urbane_Guerilla
My hope is that those with the means and talent to wage the battle on a mass scale, do so..

The moral bankruptcy of Islam has been identified, discussed, verified and accepted in many circles of right-thinking in America.

Yet I am fairly certain we will never see any major organized public relations campaign to "out" Islam, (from conservatives or otherwise) mainly because most people get squeemish at the idea of pummelling any "religion" -- regardless of how looney and hateful that religion happens to be.

I have no problem telling anyone I come across that Islam is a mental disease, but that is me.

But heck, we can't even get anyone of political note to admit that having a new US Congressman swear in on the Koran is a major step toward balkanized destruction of the United States.

How in the world will anyone tolerate a major publicity campaign stating the evils of one of the world's major religions?

51 posted on 12/16/2006 3:50:34 PM PST by Edit35
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To: Urbane_Guerilla
Reason #1:

You are a sinner and Jesus died on the cross to pay for your sin.


52 posted on 12/16/2006 3:53:12 PM PST by fishtank
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To: Jemian
Make no doubt this is a spiritual battle against powers...

Praise the Lord.... and Pass the ammo!!!

What God hasn't already done in His mighty wisdom, He often leaves up to His righteous flock here on earth.

53 posted on 12/16/2006 3:53:37 PM PST by Edit35
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To: RobbyS
The point I was making is belief in the nature of the Koran is not one of the Five pillars of Faith Muslims are required to do.

Where as a Christians entire belief system is based on faith in Gods word and not on their Christian works, a Muslim is based on works only. Whether or not you believe the Koran is inerrant word of Allah will not affect your eventually destiny. You might lose your position in the tribe, but you will still be a Muslim

I would quibble over your use of "Word of God" for the Koran as Allah is not God in Judeo/Christian sense.

Allah and the Yahweh is very different in their attributes.

54 posted on 12/16/2006 4:05:30 PM PST by Popman ("What I was doing wasn't living, it was dying. I really think God had better plans for me.")
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To: backtothestreets
Saudi Arabia is essentially colonizing our nation and creating very closed communities.

Let them decriminalize Christianity in Arabia first.

55 posted on 12/16/2006 4:11:08 PM PST by A. Pole (" There is no other god but Free Market, and Adam Smith is his prophet ! Bazaar Akbar! ")
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To: Vinnie

You never saw one because you can't put pron on TV.


56 posted on 12/16/2006 4:12:21 PM PST by BMC1 (11/7/06 THE DAY WE LOST THE WAR. TERRORISTS AND THE TERRORIST LOVING DEMONCRATS ARE NOW IN CONTROL.)
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To: Popman
Christianity is basically about "truth"...

If I had to come up with one word, I would say Christianity is about forgiveness.

The 'truth' of foregiveness, I suppose, would work also.

57 posted on 12/16/2006 4:13:52 PM PST by Edit35
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To: MojoWire

I've never commented on the hate threads that sometimes pop up on this site but this one takes the cake.


58 posted on 12/16/2006 4:16:59 PM PST by JNL
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To: MojoWire

America, Not Keith Ellison, decides what book a congressman takes his oath on
TownHall ^ | Tuesday, November 28, 2006 | Dennis Prager

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1746587/posts

To: Rummyfan
This Prager article has been posted a number of times. It was factually inaccurate the first three times it was posted, and is still factually inaccurate.

There is absolutely no Constitutional requirement for House members or even the President to swear on the Bible when taking his oath of office - while Presidents have traditionally done so, it's not clear that any oath needs to be with one hand on the Bible to qualify as an oath (it likely doesn't), and under the Constitution, office holders can take an affirmation of office of office instead of an oath anyway. In fact, President Teddy Roosevelt didn't swear on the Bible when he became President after McKinley's death in 1901. One simply might not have been available at the time. He still became President. And Franklin Pierce (and according to some historians, Herbert Hoover) affirmed his oath of office instead of swearing it. President Pierce's faith was shaken after he and his wife were involved in a fatal train accident - they saw their own son die before their eyes. Some sources claim Pierce made his affirmation with his hand on a law book, not the Bible.

House members are traditionally sworn in en masse by the Speaker on the first day of Congress immediately after the Speaker of the House is elected and sworn in. The 2005 swearing in ceremony is available on C-SPAN's website here. The Speaker is sworn in around 2:13:30 by the Dean of the House; the rest of Congress is sworn in shortly thereafter.

All Speaker Hastert asked members to do was raise their right hands while being sworn in. As a practical matter, the House floor normally seats 448 (they somehow squeeze in more seats for the State of the Union address), and there are up to 439 other members of the House (including non-voting members from the territories and the Resident Commissioner of Puerto Rico) that need to be sworn in at that time. There isn't that much room on the floor for aides or family members to hold the Bible for Congressmen to swear on. So, as you can see from the video, most Congressmen appear to raise their right hand and put their left hand on nothing, at least during this ceremonial swearing in.

Now, there may be a chance for members to have a ceremonial one-on-one swearing in for photo-op purposes (or if the Member is not present at the opening of Congress or is later elected). For example, Congressman Rothman (D-NJ) has a picture of him being "sworn in" with his hand on what appears to be the Bible on his House website. This is when Ellison might swear on the Koran - for a photo-op.

8 posted on 11/30/2006 3:34:34 PM CST by conservative in nyc


59 posted on 12/16/2006 4:23:29 PM PST by Valin (History takes time. It is not an instant thing.)
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To: jamese777
If someone had told me right after 9/11 that President Bush would be hosting at the White House Shi'ite cleric Abdul Aziz al-Hakim..

One of the Christian tenents GWB takes seriously (almost to a fault) is to "love they neighbor as thyself."

His failure is that he refuses to demand that same Islamic "neighbor" take some responsibility in this world, or at least ADMIT that the OTHER neighbors' in the world of Islam are evil and destructive.

Furthermore, GWB should insist that these Shi'ite clerk stand up and, in front of FOXCNNABC, etc, demand these Islamo-nutball sects stop sending suicide bombers to Iraq, stop dissing Israel, ect.

Until GWB does that, his "love" for his fellow man falls empty, in my view.

60 posted on 12/16/2006 4:30:42 PM PST by Edit35
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To: Jemian
THIS IS A SPIRITUAL BATTLE WHICH MUST OCCUR FIRST IN THE SPIRITUAL REALM.

Praise the Lord, and pass the ammo,

Praise the Lord, our tanks we need.

Praise the Lord, stay prepped for battle,

Stay strong and righteous, no time to bleed.

(I just made this up)

61 posted on 12/16/2006 4:34:49 PM PST by Edit35
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To: Popman
"Most Muslims are just like the back slided Christian that go to church twice a year, they will tell you they are Christians, but in reality they are Christian in name only, many Muslims have the same problem."

You are correct in most of your statements. Most Muslims do NOT go to the mosque on a regular basis. Even muslims who carry their prayer beads have no idea what they are supposed to say when fiddling with those 33 beads. They are just something they fiddle with.

Also, you can spot a very devout muslim by the dark spot on their forehead. That is from constantly putting their heads on the prayer rug. Which by the way is very course.
62 posted on 12/16/2006 4:40:30 PM PST by BMC1 (11/7/06 THE DAY WE LOST THE WAR. TERRORISTS AND THE TERRORIST LOVING DEMONCRATS ARE NOW IN CONTROL.)
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To: Urbane_Guerilla

#1 Should be obliterate the kuhbah. This destroys the need to hadj to mecca. It also invalidates one of the pillars of their "religion". This also invalidates the queeranus, being infallible. One step would take out their entire satanic slave society!


63 posted on 12/16/2006 4:45:34 PM PST by rawcatslyentist (When true genius appears, know him by this sign: all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.)
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To: Urbane_Guerilla
ISLAMONAZIS THEN ISLAMONAZIS NOW: WWII AINT CLOSE TO OVER

Amin Al Husseini seen inspecting his Hanzar Division made up exclusively of Muslims, mostly from the Crotia/Bosnia/Serbia region. They actively lead the genocide against Serbs, Serbian Jews and Gypsies.

Amin Al Husseini meets with Adolf Hitler in November 1942, weeks before the decision to implement the Final Solution which sent Europe's Jews to the gas chamber. The Third Reich provided Amin Al Husseini with a salary and appointed him Head of the Hanzar SS Division. The Hanzar Division was made of Nazi Muslims and implemented the genocide of 250,000 Serbs, Gypsies and Jews during WWII.

Amin Al Husseini shown here on a Nazi poster recruiting fellow Muslims to join Hitler in the fight against the West and the Jews. His disciples today include Yasser Arafat, Saddam Hussein and the leaders of Hamas, Al Qeida and Islamic Jihad.

Amin Al Husseini, future President of the World Islamic Congress (1961) and founding father of the Arab League (1944) inspects his Muslim Nazi troops, the Hanzar Division. Amin Al Husseini making the traditional nazi salute.

Yasser Arafat became a disciple of Amin Al Husseini since the age of 17. Here: recent picture of Palestinian soldiers under the leadership of Arafat making the traditional Nazi salute.

WWII . Amin Al Husseini spent most of the war in Berlin. He was on Hitler's payroll as he lead the Hanzar Division of Muslim SS and played a lead-role in determining the fate of Europe's Jewish community.. From Berlin, Amin Al Husseini helped organize the transfer of Nazi officers into the Middle East

Amin Al Husseini inspecting his Nazi troops, the Hanzar. Here, he is showing a young Muslim recruit how to use his rifle. Amin Al Husseini himself had been an officer in the defeated Ottoman Islamic Empire of World War I.

64 posted on 12/16/2006 4:48:55 PM PST by Rome2000 (Peace is not an option)
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To: Urbane_Guerilla

Rationalize in, rationalize out. Those that didn't arrive at their faith through logic are not going to be convinced they're wrong using logic.

Your heart seems to be somewhat hardened to these people & your desire to get them to reject their faith seems to have more to do with you, what you want, than it has to do with them & their salvation.

Begin again at your tenth point & reach out for them with your heart, rather than your mind.

One of the aspects to our nature has to do with the kind of stimulus that motivates us to change the most. For some, moving away or avoidance of something negative works, while for others there's a need to feel one is moving toward something. From your stated solution, I assume avoiding is the greater motivator for you. I don't see anything about sharing the good news, so right off the bat you're speaking the wrong language for a portion of the population.

Faith in our Father makes us want to spend eternity with him & the orgy scenario created by Islam not only doesn't glorify our Father, it's cheap & a poor replacement theology. Imagine, our Father wants us to experience something greater than anything we experience here on Earth & Islam offers something that is limited & grounded to Earth.

They are selling themselves short & I think you're doing the same, because you & they use Hell as something to avoid, an awful place where no one wants to go, so better shape up, or else... Hell is the grave, it is death. Fear not the one who can kill your body, but fear (revere) the one who can kill your soul.

I'm only trying to get you to see the other half of the truth, though I agree we are called upon to do the work our Father wants us to do, share his message with non-believers. When it is something that is self serving, you're missing the purpose, which includes action that helps to soften our own hearts.


65 posted on 12/16/2006 5:10:54 PM PST by GoLightly
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To: JNL
this one takes the cake.

which one?

66 posted on 12/16/2006 5:12:49 PM PST by Edit35
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To: Urbane_Guerilla
MOHAMMED IS THE PERFECT EXAMPLE OF A NARCISSTIC SOCIOPATH

I'm surprised clinton hasn't converted then..

67 posted on 12/16/2006 5:25:33 PM PST by Wil H
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To: MojoWire

I'd don't know maybe the believe in the Jesus I believe in or you are going to hell type cake.

Not everyone is born again, we liked the first one.


68 posted on 12/16/2006 5:38:10 PM PST by JNL
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To: BMC1

"Most Muslims do NOT go to the mosque on a regular basis."

Because they know if they do, they will be pressured into jihad.


69 posted on 12/16/2006 5:48:50 PM PST by ViLaLuz (2 Chronicles 7:14)
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To: A. Pole
"Let them decriminalize Christianity in Arabia first."

I'd favor shutting down the Muslim colonies already here first and repatriate all Muslims that have immigrated here.
70 posted on 12/16/2006 6:41:11 PM PST by backtothestreets (Invite Jesus to pray with you.)
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To: pieceofthepuzzle

Ideas are shared after the enemy is defeated.

1. Bombs
2 Bullets
3. Tanks
4. Planes
5. Spies
6. Helicopters
7. Army
8. Navy
9. Air Force
10. Marines

That's how you fight these lunatics, elimnate as many fanatics as humanly possible until the sane ones are the majority, if that means killing 100 million or more muslims, so be it. It's us or them.


71 posted on 12/16/2006 6:46:24 PM PST by word_warrior_bob
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To: Urbane_Guerilla
Over the top, I'd say.

Muslims have the potential to be entirely constructive members of the community. Just look at professional and economic status that American Muslims have achieved, once they are free of the tribalism, autocracy, and socialism which distorts much of the Islamic world.

Are an observant Muslim's beliefs heavily at odds with those of small-o orthodox and observant Christians? Yes, certainly -- but much less so than your run-of-the-mill white secularist, who, by the way, constitute a large and rising percentage of the population in this country, and a clear majority of the bankers, executives, lawyers, and professors under 40 -- in other words, the ruling class of the next few decades.
72 posted on 12/16/2006 7:14:31 PM PST by only1percent
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To: word_warrior_bob

Amen to that! Don't like it but this course of action is being forced upon us. It is US or them.


73 posted on 12/16/2006 7:22:34 PM PST by 11B40 (times change, people don't)
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To: Valin

I'll amend my statement by making two additional statements. The ones I know personally (and I know quite a few) aren't violent madmen. And, we haven't had to shoot a bunch of them (yet).


74 posted on 12/16/2006 7:30:07 PM PST by Hardastarboard (Hey! What happened to my tagline?)
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To: MojoWire

One of the Christian tenents GWB takes seriously (almost to a fault) is to "love they neighbor as thyself."

-------

This popular and growing segment of Christians who believe that their innate goodness and warming of hearts will defend us from a depraved, brainwashed, psychopathic population will lead to far more American deaths than neccesary.

Harry Truman had the right idea. The Japanese were ready to fight to the last man, woman and child until they got THEIR wake up call-that the Emperor was NOT God.

Until we have a leader with the stones to drop a few nukes on these fanatics they will keep festering. Want to see how fast the common people start rebelling against the terrorists when they come to the realization that America is NOT a paper tiger? Once they see America is the most powerful nation in the world, capable of killing them and their children at will, they will get the message.

The terrorists at the beginning of the war on terror said they will stay and fight and Americans once they see their sons and daughters coming home in body bags will lose their stomach for war.

The anti-war party (with help from the big media parroting this terrorist rallying cry) won a huge victory in the last election.

Now tell me, were they wrong? The fanatics see these "prophecies" coming true and now more fervently support "Allah".

I'm not a lunatic let's kill all the raghead rabble rouser. I see the situation as dire and intellecually I see the way to save the most AMERICAN lives in the long run is to use EXCESSIVE AND OVERWHELMING force to snap these brainwashed people out of their fantasy instead of fullfilling their prophecy of the American Paper Tiger who when the going gets tough, gets going.


75 posted on 12/16/2006 8:04:25 PM PST by word_warrior_bob
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To: word_warrior_bob

Yes, we have these things, but they can't help us if our own public isn't behind us. We marched through Iraq incredibly swiftly, but here we are several years later and our own press, and a large percentage of the American public, think we are losing or have lost. That's how important winning in the public arena is.


76 posted on 12/16/2006 8:25:04 PM PST by pieceofthepuzzle
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To: sauropod

review


77 posted on 12/16/2006 8:26:16 PM PST by sauropod ("Come have some pie with me.")
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To: pieceofthepuzzle

But right now George Bush is President, and the decisions he makes in the "Global War on Terror" will affect civilization for the next 1000 years.

History repeats itself, in hindsight everyone WOULD have decimated the Nazi's before millions died.

We have a new Nazi machine and they are Radical Islam, does Bush have the courage to kill a few million of them before they plunge the world into a war which kills millions in many countries? No, he doesn't, and many Americans will needlessly die because of it.

We are ready to march home with our tail between our legs saying there is no way to win this war, depressing the population, losing status on the world stage, being exposed as a paper tiger again like in Vietnam.

It is time to kill a few million of them in one day, let them believe there is no way for THEM to win this war against the most powerful, technologically advanced nation in the history of the world. Let THEM walk away with their tails between their legs. Let THEM rebel against their theocracies instead of idiots in America voting for the anti-war party and condemning future generations to muslim nukes and dirty bombs for their own selfish needs today.


78 posted on 12/16/2006 8:40:14 PM PST by word_warrior_bob
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To: Urbane_Guerilla

I would add that in Islam there is no meaning or redemptive aspect to human suffering. Islam can't explain why good Muslims have to suffer or why Islam has been so unsuccessful in recent centuries. Only Christianity can properly explain the salvific role of human suffering.


79 posted on 12/16/2006 9:04:02 PM PST by Ronaldus Magnus
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To: Popman

Look how intimidated many are to criticize Islam or Mohammed.

Penn & Teller were prevented by Showtime from doing an expose' on Mohammed, how insane is that?


80 posted on 12/16/2006 9:13:41 PM PST by word_warrior_bob
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To: Jemian
This is a subject close to my heart. But, I do live on the other side of the world and I must get ready for the day. Please forgive me for not responding further, in a timely fashion. I'll answer when I return to the 'net tonight.

I truly would like to discuss it with you, Jem.

81 posted on 12/16/2006 10:58:52 PM PST by Urbane_Guerilla
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To: MojoWire
How in the world will anyone tolerate a major publicity campaign stating the evils of one of the world's major religions?

This is the very crux of the matter. worshippers of mohammed feel free to say and do whatever they want, counting on the hobbled silence of the West.

This is a direct result of American slavery. Americans rightfully feel gravely ashamed by that aspect of our history.

mohammed-worshippers, who endorse slavery, take advantage of our shame and past sinfulness.

mohammed-worshippers are no more than Jesse Jacksons and Al Sharptons with regard to America. They understand that the race-hustle of those corrupt men is the key to keeping us silent. And they are succeeding. The race-hustle is a perfect fit with islam, an amoral con.

82 posted on 12/16/2006 11:08:52 PM PST by Urbane_Guerilla
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To: MojoWire
What God hasn't already done in His mighty wisdom, He often leaves up to His righteous flock here on earth.

That is a totally speculative and unprovable pov. As far as we know, God has nothing to do with it.

And that is why our president is too cowardly to speak the truth.

He prefers his fantasy.

83 posted on 12/16/2006 11:12:30 PM PST by Urbane_Guerilla
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To: MojoWire
If I had to come up with one word, I would say Christianity is about forgiveness.

I could not disagree with you more.

The one word is "love," a word totally alien to islam, as opposed to any other religion whatsoever.

84 posted on 12/16/2006 11:14:51 PM PST by Urbane_Guerilla
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To: Popman
Where as a Christians entire belief system is based on faith in Gods word and not on their Christian works, a Muslim is based on works only. Whether or not you believe the Koran is inerrant word of Allah will not affect your eventually destiny. You might lose your position in the tribe, but you will still be a Muslim.

You are ill informed.

Christianity is based absolutely and categorically on the belief in the Resurrection.

If you do not believe in the actual, physical, bodily resurrection of Jesus, you cannot be a true Christrian.

You might be a species of Christian, but not a true Christian.

85 posted on 12/16/2006 11:19:31 PM PST by Urbane_Guerilla
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To: GoLightly
I'm only trying to get you to see the other half of the truth, though I agree we are called upon to do the work our Father wants us to do, share his message with non-believers. When it is something that is self serving, you're missing the purpose, which includes action that helps to soften our own hearts.

I understand and honor your sentiment. But please watch Zulu and pay attention to the Christian.

My desire to get mohammed-worshippers to reject their faith has everything to do with me. Yes, you are no doubt correct. Their rejection of their faith is very dear to me.

Your sympathy with psychopathic hatred, on the other hand, has to do with your insecurity with your own faith.

Your insecurity is why our President, a Christian, is unable to speak the truth about mohammed-worship.

He is frightened about the implications of that truth about Jesus worship.

In other words, he does not have the intellectual capacity to distinguish between the two.

86 posted on 12/16/2006 11:32:24 PM PST by Urbane_Guerilla
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To: word_warrior_bob
Look how intimidated many are to criticize Islam or Mohammed.

Absolutely.

Brilliant men resort to the weasel word, "islamism". They are scared of speaking the truth. They are intellectual cowards.

Has anyone anywhere said, "I am an islamist"?

LOL ... of course not. I am a nazi. I am a communist. I am a socialist. I am a facist. Those are things real human beings say.

But I am an "islamiscist," or "I am an islamo-fascist"?

Ridiculous and absurd.

And our most brilliant people utter those risible things.

Somewhere on the net someone even came up with the embarrassing word, "counterjihad."

OMG ... we are defeating ourselves, when even those who understand refuse to speak the truth.

87 posted on 12/16/2006 11:46:24 PM PST by Urbane_Guerilla
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To: Urbane_Guerilla
Excellent effort, Urbane. Well structured and thought provoking.
88 posted on 12/16/2006 11:51:34 PM PST by starbase (Understanding Written Propaganda (click "starbase" to learn 22 manipulating tricks!!))
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To: Urbane_Guerilla

Look how intimidated many are to criticize Islam or Mohammed.
Absolutely.

Brilliant men resort to the weasel word, "islamism". They are scared of speaking the truth. They are intellectual cowards.

Has anyone anywhere said, "I am an islamist"?

LOL ... of course not. I am a nazi. I am a communist. I am a socialist. I am a facist. Those are things real human beings say.

But I am an "islamiscist," or "I am an islamo-fascist"?

Ridiculous and absurd.

And our most brilliant people utter those risible things.

Somewhere on the net someone even came up with the embarrassing word, "counterjihad."

OMG ... we are defeating ourselves, when even those who understand refuse to speak the truth.

_______


The de-construction of the English language and the fear of speaking bluntly, no matter who it offends will be the death of us all someday.

The Emperor has no clothes and everyone is afraid to say it. Something has happened to American society in the past 40 years, we are de-evolving into a soft society who lives in a fantasy world, unable to acknowledge the barbarians at the gate.

People in theoretical conversation say "I would have killed Hitler" with hindsight being 20/20.

We've got a religion full of Hitlers, how fast are we killing them? Not NEARLY fast enough.

Radical Islam and it's leaders are FAR MORE OVERT in their desire to exterminate all Jews, they even threaten to destroy America. Hey, who's on OPRAH today!

Hitler tried to keep the holocaust secret, our current enemy speaks openly about it, what's our response? Do you think Jennifer Aniston will marry Vince Vaughn?


89 posted on 12/17/2006 12:01:18 AM PST by word_warrior_bob
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To: Urbane_Guerilla

"But please watch Zulu and pay attention to the Christian. "

Watch me?


90 posted on 12/17/2006 12:08:55 AM PST by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis, Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts, and guns made America great.)
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To: Urbane_Guerilla
I commend you for wanting to fight the ideological fight, but your plan for the "battle of ideas" is somewhat lacking. In order to win an ideological fight, you need your target to listen to and adopt your ideas. Why would the world's Muslim community listen to your ideas if your ideas are a continual refrain of, "You are going to burn in hell, you Muhammad-worshipper, you are evil, your religion is all wrong," ad nauseam? The battlefield of ideas is much like any other battlefield -- you need to understand the terrain, the enemy, and their weapons. That requires careful study of the target society, the identification of truly dangerous ideas, the development of counter-ideas, and the development of a means to deliver those ideas. It's not a place to express righteous anger or smug superiority, no matter how justified you feel those may be.

For now, I'm going to assume that the ideological battleground is the Muslim world. I don't think most of these proposals are workable in the Muslim world. A few might have a bit more currency with the non-Muslim world, but I doubt their overall utility there. The ideological war in the West has a lot more to do with the old left/right hatreds than it does with Muslim culture.

One, the only way to convince a Jihadist he's going to hell is for another orthodox Muslim to tell him that. I don't think Ahmad al-Muj is terribly interested in the theological musings of Freepers, but he might listen to a mufti or an ayatollah with a sufficiently large pulpit. He may also listen to a family, clan, or tribal leader -- depends on how far gone he is.

Two, exploiting class-envy to deconstruct religion is a bit too Marxist for me, especially when many terrorists aren't that poor anyway. Disparities of wealth develop anywhere with sufficient wealth, it's only natural for the advantaged to amass whatever wealth they can. We need the Islamic world to reform commerce and property rights so the advantage passes from the de facto aristocracy to a meritocracy. This may be accelerated by instituting representative government while reforming Islamic education beyond the usual array of madrassas and state-sponsored bachelors' in Islamic history. It may be useful to set up American-run universities in Iraq and Afghanistan; they'd be electromagnets for terrorism, but they could train future leaders. We already do it for their military, why not their civilians?

Three, it is a point of pride to orthodox Muslims that they "protect" their women, and to Muslim women that they are more pious than poorly-dressed nonbelievers; to them, we treat our women like garbage. This is a private religious matter for most Muslims. But I agree that those societies that limit the movement of women or submit them to cruel punishments need to reform. After changes in codified law, the best way to deal with it would be to support those ulama who have liberal views regarding women, ideally through open scholarship. Think widespread reports on seventh-century Muslim women going about without veils, or how the change in the sex ratio since then has fundamentally changed marriage. Covert funding and propagandizing might get it done, but if it were uncovered, we'd lose a great deal of face.

Four, we already saw what happened when the Pope brought that idea up. It's a non-starter.

Five and six are pretty good ideas, but a soft touch is needed -- this could best be carried out by the academe, using traditions of Western rationalism (which are uncommon, but not unheard of in the Muslim world). Humanizing Muhammad and recasting the Quran as an inspired text, rather than the virtual embodiment of Allah it's become, would go a long way towards modernizing Islamic culture. It could set up a chain-reaction doing away with established fiqh ("jurisprudence") and bringing back itjihad ("reasoning" in the application of sharia to circumstances unforeseen by Muhammad).

Seven misses the mark completely, since Muslims do not worship Muhammad. Even if they did, telling them that the only way to defend their religion is with violence -- as part of a campaign to delegitimize their religion -- is probably going to provoke more violence.

Eight is another idea that Muslims won't grasp. To orthodox Muslims, Jews and Christians were always safe and happy under the Caliphate. The Crusades and the State of Israel messed things up, but their religion at its height -- the era to which they long to return -- was very tolerant. It might be useful to remind them of this fact, that they've failed in their responsibilities to their dhimmies, but accusing the religion of being inherently violent will shut down the listener and any chance of delivering a message.

Nine, Islam certainly has a concept of forgiveness, and love. (Maybe not the agape you're thinking of, though.) I don't know if it has a "golden rule," but a Muslim would counter that Western culture has no "rule of submission." You're assuming that his values are the same as your values, and that he will find wrong with his religion exactly the same things you find wrong with it. He won't.

Ten is good, but the wording is a bit polemical. (Ya think?)

Please read Mr. Gawthrop's article in the Fall 2006 issue of The Vanguard. He describes the centers of gravity, critical vulnerabilities, and seams that can be exploited in the ideological war.

91 posted on 12/17/2006 1:07:25 AM PST by Caesar Soze
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To: Urbane_Guerilla
Good thread! Lots of good discussion.

A thought to ponder, and I do not have the answer although it's been on my mind 10 or 15 years. Muslim martyrs really do believe they are gaining Paradise by their act. What is Paradise?

Consider Paradise was mentioned only three times in the Bible, first by Jesus on the cross to one of the men crucified alongside Him. Jesus said, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise."

Jesus did not ascend into Heaven until a time after He arose from the dead. Paul spoke of Paradise as a place where a man "heard inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter". It is mentioned one more time in the Book of Revelations, but this time with a qualifier that may set it apart from some "other" Paradise. Here it is spoken of as "the Paradise of God". not simply Paradise. Heaven is mentioned over 50 times in the Book of Revelations.

Paradise may indeed be where Muslims are headed. What is Paradise? I ask because if Satan were to raise an army of followers, would he not deceive them, would he not distort their final destination? Would he have any success raising an army of followers by telling them they would gain eternal damnation in Hell?
92 posted on 12/17/2006 1:37:43 AM PST by backtothestreets (Invite Jesus to pray with you.)
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To: word_warrior_bob
"It is time to kill a few million of them in one day ..."

That's precisely where I see the war of Islam headed, and the longer we restrain ourselves, the more devastating the toll will need to be when we finally react to defeat Islam.
93 posted on 12/17/2006 1:46:15 AM PST by backtothestreets (Invite Jesus to pray with you.)
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To: Urbane_Guerilla
Muslims worship Allah. They revere Mohammed as the Final Prophet. Jews and Christians still think the Messiah has yet to come so one cannot say definitely Islam is the final revealed religion. Indeed, Bahai'ism, the newest religion was born after the rise of Islam.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." -Manuel II Paleologus

94 posted on 12/17/2006 1:50:08 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: goldstategop

"Jews and Christians still think the Messiah has yet to come"

You might want to revise that statement a wee bit!


95 posted on 12/17/2006 1:52:32 AM PST by bonfire
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To: bonfire
Christians believe in the second coming of Jesus. Jews believe God will reveal the identity of the Messiah. My point is there will be an End Time. At that time, God through His servant, will rule the world and all mortals will worship Him.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." -Manuel II Paleologus

96 posted on 12/17/2006 1:56:00 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: Urbane_Guerilla

How you gonna deal with people who won't listen to reason or logic?


97 posted on 12/17/2006 2:02:30 AM PST by wai-ming
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To: gregwest
GREGWEST WROTE: "This question goes right to the heart of what really works to save souls. What did Jesus do to save people? He taught them truth in the spirit of kindness and then he submitted himself to die to prove his point. He was willing to go to his death to prove that love overcomes all things."

Here are a couple of FANTASTIC sites:

http://www.livingwaters.com/good/
http://www.biblicalevangelism.com/

98 posted on 12/17/2006 2:23:46 AM PST by Concerned (My Motto: It's NEVER wrong to do what's RIGHT!!!)
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To: Urbane_Guerilla
The one word is "love,"

That is a great description of Christianity.

99 posted on 12/17/2006 5:21:48 AM PST by Edit35
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To: MojoWire

Have you actually read this thread?

Seriously there are bad Christians and bad Muslims/ I know a couple of Muslims (one of whom takes his breaks and goes and prays)

Are they bad .... no most will give you the shirt off their back. Do they like extremists...no they don't....do they believe in Jesus....yes they do....

This is a broad brush we are painting here.


100 posted on 12/17/2006 5:58:14 AM PST by JNL
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