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Please remember these 17-yo Americans who died Nov, Dec 1950, under Truman, to free S. Korea.

Posted on 01/02/2007 9:05:40 AM PST by syriacus

115 youths in all. All younger than 18.

No one demanded that WMDs needed to be found in 1950 Korea, in order to justify freeing South Koreans from potential domination by Kim Jong-Il's father, Kim Il-sung..

Name -- State -- Date of death

Donald R Abel -- Pennsylvania   4 Nov 1950
James V Ashbaugh -- Ohio   6 Dec 1950
Donald L Bakie -- Maryland   2 Nov 1950
Ronald R Barker -- Virginia   2 Dec 1950
Robert A Jr Best Jr --Wisconsin   2 Dec 1950
Curtis L Bowman -- Virginia   24 Dec 1950
Donald W Boyd -- Pennsylvania   28 Nov 1950
Kenneth L Bridger -- Washington   30 Nov 1950
Buddy B Burris -- California   4 Dec 1950
John M Carnes -- Ohio   12 Dec 1950
Melvin H Chantre -- Massachusetts   2 Nov 1950
John B Christiana -- Pennsylvania   30 Nov 1950
Freddie E Church -- Ohio   1 Nov 1950
Arthur A Clifton -- New Mexico   11 Dec 1950
William Colletti -- Maryland   2 Dec 1950
Clifton W Conley -- Pennsylvania   4 Dec 1950
Henry D Connell -- Massachusetts   2 Nov 1950
Howard D Cook -- Kentucky   6 Nov 1950
John E Cook -- New York   29 Nov 1950
Patrick H Creagan -- Iowa   3 Dec 1950
Arthur E Crim -- Ohio   28 Nov 1950
Harold E Dale -- Michigan   13 Dec 1950
Edward H Davis -- Mississippi   2 Dec 1950
Amos Jr Douglas -- Ohio   28 Nov 1950
Richard D Espinoza -- Illinois   29 Nov 1950
Gene E Evans -- California   12 Dec 1950
William F Evans -- New Jersey   3 Dec 1950
Gerald A Farris -- California   2 Dec 1950
Eric N Jr Flackman -- California   11 Dec 1950
Irvin E Focht -- Ohio   12 Dec 1950
James L Franklin -- Virginia 6 Nov 1950
Royce C Gibson -- Kentucky   27 Nov 1950
J W Gilland -- Alabama   3 Nov 1950
Larry O Greenfield -- Iowa   14 Dec 1950
Raymond Gunderson -- Wisconsin   10 Nov 1950
Lewis S Harsher -- West Virginia   2 Dec 1950
Clarence G Hartley -- Washington   30 Nov 1950
Paul E Heald -- Florida   3 Dec 1950
Glenwood C Helman -- Pennsylvania   30 Nov 1950
Jerold C Hoffman -- Pennsylvania   15 Nov 1950
Charles L Hogan -- Texas   2 Dec 1950
Theodore H Hopke -- New York   2 Nov 1950
William C Hunt -- Kentucky   26 Nov 1950
Jack W Hutchison -- Michigan   30 Nov 1950
Harold S Jackson -- Ohio   13 Nov 1950
Herbert Jackson -- Pennsylvania   11 Nov 1950
Joseph B Joe -- Louisiana   1 Dec 1950
Eldride Johnson -- Louisiana   27 Nov 1950
John B Johnson -- North Carolina   15 Dec 1950
Wesley Johnson -- Alabama   2 Nov 1950
Robert N Jones -- California   26 Nov 1950
John J Keglovitz -- Pennsylvania   15 Dec 1950
Donald E Kelly -- California   3 Dec 1950
George E Kessler -- Virginia   28 Nov 1950
Martin A King -- Pennsylvania   2 Nov 1950
George H Lawall -- Pennsylvania   15 Dec 1950
Ray K Lilly -- West Virginia   2 Nov 1950
Kenneth W Lippert -- Ohio   2 Nov 1950
Richard A Lucas -- New Jersey   26 Nov 1950
Marshall F Lyons -- Michigan   11 Nov 1950
Donald V MacLean -- Ohio   2 Dec 1950
Henry E Jr Matton -- Wisconsin   11 Nov 1950
Donald McClellan -- Michigan   11 Dec 1950
Richard McKinney -- California   2 Dec 1950
Gerald W McLean -- Kentucky   30 Nov 1950
John D Meikle -- Virginia   15 Dec 1950
Norman E Moore -- Massachusetts   28 Nov 1950
Roland B Mullen -- Pennsylvania   21 Dec 1950
George R Jr Nedley -- Pennsylvania   29 Nov 1950
Henry R Oneal -- California   28 Nov 1950
Dick E Osborne -- Pennsylvania   2 Nov 1950
Edison F Owens -- Illinois   28 Nov 1950
Michael H Paczocha -- Wisconsin   28 Nov 1950
James R Palmer -- Ohio   2 Nov 1950
Thomas L Parker -- Georgia   27 Nov 1950
Philip O Peterson -- Minnesota   2 Dec 1950
George Jr Petty -- Pennsylvania   27 Nov 1950
Walter Pierce -- Pennsylvania   2 Nov 1950
Roger W Pleshek -- Michigan   30 Nov 1950
Alton R Register -- North Carolina   2 Dec 1950
James A Riddle -- Michigan   2 Dec 1950
Kenneth M Rinkes -- Ohio   3 Dec 1950
Joseph A Roberts -- Massachusetts   2 Nov 1950
Joseph C Robinson -- Pennsylvania   28 Nov 1950
Herman Rose -- North Carolina   3 Dec 1950
Paul E Rose -- Pennsylvania   3 Dec 1950
Joseph Serback -- West Virginia   27 Nov 1950
Anthony R Sidoti -- Connecticut   2 Nov 1950
Marvin M Sihrer -- South Dakota   27 Nov 1950
Donald M Smith -- Kentucky   28 Nov 1950
Donald R Smith -- Ohio   2 Dec 1950
William Sneed -- Michigan   3 Dec 1950
Walter A Snyder -- Ohio   6 Dec 1950
Louis Jr Sonnier -- Louisiana   28 Nov 1950
Elmo M Spiller -- Washington   2 Nov 1950
John O Strom -- Minnesota   2 Nov 1950
John L Sullivan -- Tennessee   29 Nov 1950
Earl W Taylor -- Missouri   28 Nov 1950
James W Teague -- North Carolina   28 Nov 1950
Billy E Tennison -- Texas   1 Dec 1950
Ernest L Jr Thorpe -- Pennsylvania   15 Dec 1950
Barney A Tolbert -- Alabama   2 Dec 1950
Alfredo T Trevino -- Texas   2 Dec 1950
Darold D Urbanski -- Wyoming   1 Dec 1950
Richa Van Newhouse -- Ohio   6 Dec 1950
Rex E Wagner -- Ohio   2 Nov 1950
Lawrence R Walker -- California   30 Nov 1950
Donald E Wallace -- Tennessee   28 Nov 1950
George W Walters -- Maryland   2 Nov 1950
Kenneth E Walters -- Oklahoma   6 Dec 1950
Calvin Benjamin Ward -- Maryland   3 Dec 1950
Willie Jr Watts -- South Carolina   27 Nov 1950
Berl D Weekley -- Florida   28 Nov 1950
David G Wheat -- Louisiana   11 Nov 1950
Richard W Young -- Pennsylvania   26 Nov 1950


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: koreanwar; nowmds; truman; trumandoctrine
I did a search on those born in 1933. There may have been more who were 17, if they died before their 18th birthday in 1950. (e.g., someone born December 20, 1932, might have died at age 17 in November 1950).

Also, it's possible that some 16 year-olds are among those who died in 1950.

1 posted on 01/02/2007 9:05:43 AM PST by syriacus
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To: syriacus

I believe we still have 800 or so buried up in North Korea, killed when the Chinese unilaterally, illegally, pre-emptively, immorally, and unjustly entered the war.


2 posted on 01/02/2007 9:18:05 AM PST by Chi-townChief
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To: syriacus

I doubt that any "surge" into Iraq would include many 17 year olds.


3 posted on 01/02/2007 9:26:12 AM PST by syriacus (30,000 US deaths in Korea in 2 1/2 years under Democrat Truman (Jul, 1950 - Dec, 1952))
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To: syriacus
Did anyone object to Truman's 1950 "police action" against "bandits" on the grounds that 0 Koreans flew planes into prominent US buildings?
4 posted on 01/02/2007 9:31:41 AM PST by syriacus (30,000 US deaths in Korea in 2 1/2 years under Democrat Truman (Jul, 1950 - Dec, 1952))
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To: syriacus
Truman was a Democrat, therefore the Korean War was a "good" war.
5 posted on 01/02/2007 9:32:33 AM PST by KarlInOhio (Baker's Iraq Surrender Group - warming up the last helicopter out of Baghdad.)
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To: syriacus

May they rest in peace.


6 posted on 01/02/2007 9:44:37 AM PST by fieldmarshaldj (Cheney X -- Destroying the Liberal Democrat Traitors By Any Means Necessary -- Ya Dig ? Sho 'Nuff.)
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To: syriacus
Anyone who has an honest or moderately intelligent bone in his/her body knows that saddum had WMD's.

That "we" somehow allow this spin to continue is nuts. At each mention of this stupid spin, honest people need to stop the conversation and ask the person of he/she REEEEALLY believes that there were no WMD's. Press them. Interrupt the flow of the spin.

So much of the arguments against Bush and the war are BASED on this stupid fallacy that, without it, the arguments would be obvious jokes..
7 posted on 01/02/2007 9:50:09 AM PST by bannie
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To: fieldmarshaldj
May they rest in peace.

Yes. And may we all remember to be grateful to these young men, who (most likely) have no descendants.

If they were still alive, they could be 73 year-old grandparents or great-grandparents.

8 posted on 01/02/2007 9:50:32 AM PST by syriacus (30,000 US deaths in Korea in 2 1/2 years under Democrat Truman (Jul, 1950 - Dec, 1952))
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To: bannie
Anyone who has an honest or moderately intelligent bone in his/her body knows that saddum had WMD's.

Dictators have a powerful craving for powerful weaponry.

If someone would have hanged Kim il-sung soon after he invaded South Korea in 1950, his son would most likely not be threatening to develop nuclear weapons in the 21st Century.

9 posted on 01/02/2007 9:56:46 AM PST by syriacus (30,000 US deaths in Korea in 2 1/2 years under Democrat Truman (Jul, 1950 - Dec, 1952))
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To: KarlInOhio
Truman was a Democrat, therefore the Korean War was a "good" war.

And I might add that the Korean War was "UN-approved"

10 posted on 01/02/2007 9:57:58 AM PST by D-Chivas
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To: bannie

Isn't it funny.....

* Kennedy didn't need to find WMDs to justify going into Vietnam
* Clinton didn't need to find WMDs in the former Yugoslavia and
* Truman didn't need to find WMDs in Korea.


11 posted on 01/02/2007 10:00:03 AM PST by syriacus (30,000 US deaths in Korea in 2 1/2 years under Democrat Truman (Jul, 1950 - Dec, 1952))
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To: D-Chivas
That was only because the "wrong" China was recognized by the UN so the Soviet Union was having a hissy fit and boycotted to vote. If it had been business as usual, the USSR would have vetoed UN action so the US, South Korea and a few allies would have had to fight without the UN's blessing.
12 posted on 01/02/2007 10:01:22 AM PST by KarlInOhio (Baker's Iraq Surrender Group - warming up the last helicopter out of Baghdad.)
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To: KarlInOhio
Truman was a Democrat, therefore the Korean War was a "good" war.

Exactly.
Since Truman was a Democrat, it's okay that almost 34000 Americans died for Korean freedom.
Since Bush is a Republican, it's not okay for 3,000 Americans to die for Iraqi freedom.

More Americans died in Korea in one month* than have died in all the years we have been in Iraq.

*3475 Americans died fighting for Korean freedom in November, 1950
3345 Americans died fighting for Korean freedom in September, 1950

13 posted on 01/02/2007 10:04:52 AM PST by syriacus (30,000 US deaths in Korea in 2 1/2 years under Democrat Truman (Jul, 1950 - Dec, 1952))
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To: syriacus

lets remember all that died in all wars to continue providing us our freedom. i lost an 18 year old uncle who fought the inchon invasion as well as the chosin and survived only to die shortly after in korea from spinal meningitis.


14 posted on 01/02/2007 10:11:47 AM PST by tatsinfla
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To: syriacus

It's also no coincidence that the U.S. either lost those wars, or has committed itself to a perpetual military presence in those places.


15 posted on 01/02/2007 10:17:29 AM PST by Alberta's Child (Can money pay for all the days I lived awake but half asleep?)
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To: syriacus

16 posted on 01/02/2007 10:33:14 AM PST by HEY4QDEMS (Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.)
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To: D-Chivas
And I might add that the Korean War was "UN-approved"

Truman was lucky. Russia was boycotting the security council.

here's a chrononology

June 24, 1950 - (U.S. time = Saturday, June 24) (Korea time= Sunday, June 25) at 4 am NK invaded SK with 90,000 troops equipped with Soviet weapons and Soviet T-34 tanks, quickly overran SK defenses, captured Uijongbu highway center 20 mi. north of Seoul in 2 days, captured Seoul by June 28 as ROK fled south blowing up Han River bridges, killing refugees, trapping 44,000 own men north of river

June 25, 1950 - Sunday, Truman returned to Blair House from Independence, MO, and met with NSC - ordered U.S. Navy and AF into SK to stop invasion (but not Army ground troops)

June 26, 1950 - Monday, Truman asked and received support from UN - Russia was absent because boycotting Security Council until seat given to Communist China

June 27, 1950 - Tuesday, 2nd UN meeting approved use of ground troops; Truman ordered the 7th Fleet to the Taiwan Strait to protect Formosa. -

Ironically, within 6 months, the Europeans were complaining that Truman was paying too much attention to Asia. They wanted the US to be available for their defense. MacArthur later pointed out that the US needed to fight the communists in Korea or the fight against Communism would take place in the streets of Europe.
17 posted on 01/02/2007 10:36:07 AM PST by syriacus (30,000 US deaths in Korea in 2 1/2 years under Democrat Truman (Jul, 1950 - Dec, 1952))
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To: syriacus

In the interest of balance, you did pick two of the worst months in the Korean War (I believe your choices covered the Inchon landings/first re-capture of Seoul and the Chinese offensive)


18 posted on 01/02/2007 10:36:55 AM PST by Panzerfaust
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To: HEY4QDEMS

I love it!!

19 posted on 01/02/2007 10:37:22 AM PST by syriacus (30,000 US deaths in Korea in 2 1/2 years under Democrat Truman (Jul, 1950 - Dec, 1952))
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To: Panzerfaust
n the interest of balance, you did pick two of the worst months in the Korean War (I believe your choices covered the Inchon landings/first re-capture of Seoul and the Chinese offensive)

I'm not sure what your point is.

20 posted on 01/02/2007 10:38:06 AM PST by syriacus (30,000 US deaths in Korea in 2 1/2 years under Democrat Truman (Jul, 1950 - Dec, 1952))
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To: syriacus

Let me add, your analogy is basically sound. Korea was a civil war, fueled by outside money/forces, just like Iraq. Unlike Vietnam, at least the politicians stayed the course in Korea and were able to save the South.


21 posted on 01/02/2007 10:39:26 AM PST by Panzerfaust
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To: syriacus

18 is the new 17.


22 posted on 01/02/2007 10:40:39 AM PST by krb (If you're not outraged, people probably like having you around.)
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To: syriacus
My point is that casualty comparisons would be more accurately done by comparing average monthly losses.

Then again, you are preaching to the choir, as anybody with a modicum of military history background knows that the Iraq war has had miraculously few casulaties relative to past conflicts. The folks against the war in Iraq have never heard of places like Unsan or the Chongchon river valley.

23 posted on 01/02/2007 10:43:50 AM PST by Panzerfaust
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To: syriacus
It's all a political spin. It's as though the left has discovered how stupid the public is, and they're playing thier spin game to the max.

My lazy self asks...does anyone have a link to a list of the things that we've found which are proof of WMD's?

24 posted on 01/02/2007 10:55:06 AM PST by bannie
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To: Panzerfaust
In the interest of balance, you did pick two of the worst months in the Korean War (I believe your choices covered the Inchon landings/first re-capture of Seoul and the Chinese offensive)

Whichever month Democrats choose, Democrats can't get around the fact that more men died in one month of Truman's War than in all the months of Bush's War.

If 3,000 deaths is some "magic cutoff point" for support for a war, Truman should have withdrawn his troops within a couple of months of sending them there.

It's 'telling" that the news services didn't detail the thousands of deaths in Korea, or the mass evacuations of troops and citizens. (I'm not sure...I'm just learning about the Korean War....did I read that a million Korean civilians died?)

Did NBC read the names, over the air, of all 781 Americans who died on November 30, 1950?

How about the 621 Americans who died on November 28, 1950

No?

Maybe that's because the numbers are truly overwhelming, even when pictures aren't attached to the names!

Try to imagine a photograph (using a zoom lens of course) of 781 flag-draped coffins!!

At any rate, I'll be glad to reword my statistics.

10 times as many Americans were killed in "Truman's Korean War," in 2 1/2 years,
as were killed in
all the years of "Bush's Iraq War."

25 posted on 01/02/2007 11:11:43 AM PST by syriacus (30,000 US deaths in Korea in 2 1/2 years under Democrat Truman (Jul, 1950 - Dec, 1952))
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To: Panzerfaust
you are preaching to the choir,

Not really.

Not many people know much about Korea, just as few Americans know about D-Day at Salerno. History books ignore the large numbers of deaths in places where we freed people and focus on deaths in places like Vietnam, where we gave up before freeing people.

I was a history major, and the number of deaths in Korea came as a big surprise to me

My Ueberliberal sister was quite astounded when I told her that 10 times as many troops died in Korea as in Iraq.

The word is spreading....

26 posted on 01/02/2007 11:39:29 AM PST by syriacus (30,000 US deaths in Korea in 2 1/2 years under Democrat Truman (Jul, 1950 - Dec, 1952))
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To: bannie
Anyone who has an honest or moderately intelligent bone in his/her body knows that saddum had WMD's.

Well, that would eliminate 99.99% of the Democrats, the MSM, and the "International Community".

27 posted on 01/02/2007 11:41:55 AM PST by Spiff (Death before Dhimmitude)
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To: syriacus

Yes. By all means, let us all wallow in the past.


28 posted on 01/02/2007 11:42:06 AM PST by Glenn (Annoy a BushBot...Think for yourself.)
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To: Glenn
By all means, let us all wallow in the past.

LOL.

You're asking for the impossible.

Too few Americans know about the gallons of blood shed for the freedom of Koreans.

29 posted on 01/02/2007 12:58:41 PM PST by syriacus (30,000 US deaths in Korea in 2 1/2 years under Democrat Truman (Jul, 1950 - Dec, 1952))
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To: Glenn
Americans are not the only ones who have forgotten about Korea.

Korea, 1950 - 53. The Forgotten War

The United Nations sent thousands of men and women from all of the armed services to the Korean peninsula to fight in what has since become known as Britain’s forgotten war

 Those brave men and in some cases women fought against Communist North Korean and Chinese troops in what was one of the bloodiest wars ever fought. And yet little is known about the role played by British troops in that conflict.


30 posted on 01/02/2007 1:10:29 PM PST by syriacus (30,000 US deaths in Korea in 2 1/2 years under Democrat Truman (Jul, 1950 - Dec, 1952))
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To: syriacus
Great Website: Korean War Casualty Databases
31 posted on 01/02/2007 2:04:48 PM PST by syriacus (30,000 US deaths in Korea in 2 1/2 years under Democrat Truman (Jul, 1950 - Dec, 1952))
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To: bannie

Saddam did have WMD.
The media ignored it.
Take a look at the Duelfer Report.
Six projects were never declared to UN inspectors.

*Iraqi Intelligence Service had clandestine laboratories and safe houses that contained equipment to make CB weapons. The Regime's intent: to assassinate political rivals.

*Documents and equipment buried in Iraqi scientists' homes to enrich uranium.

*Line of unmanned aerial vehicles with ranges of 500 kilometer. Only 150 Kilometers is allowed by the UNRES.

*Concealed from UN inspectors advanced design work for long-range ballistic and cruise missles with ranges over the 150 Kilometers limit.

*Clandestine attempts between late 1999 and 2002 to obtain from North Korea technology. IIS tried to purchase 1,300-kilometer range ballistic missiles and 300-kilometer range anti-ship cruise missiles. Including other hardware prohibted by the UN.

*On June 23, 2004, the United States airlifted approximately two tons of low-enriched uranium and 1,000 sources of radioactivity from a repository at Tuwaitha, south of Baghdad, to an undisclosed location in the United States. Nearly 400 tons of natural uranium remains in Iraq.

http://www.iraqwatch.org/update/archive-12-19-06-excerpts.htm
http://www.nti.org/e_research/profiles/Iraq/Nuclear/2121_4595.html


32 posted on 01/02/2007 2:06:16 PM PST by Milligan (THERE IS A CONNECTION)
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To: Milligan

Thank you for providing the great rundown, Milligan.


33 posted on 01/02/2007 2:18:46 PM PST by syriacus (30,000 US deaths in Korea in 2 1/2 years under Democrat Truman (Jul, 1950 - Dec, 1952))
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To: tatsinfla
tI am grateful for you uncle's service to his country.

Many Koreans are grateful, too [see the emails from Koreans and Korean-Americans which begin slighly above the middle of the page].

Have you visited the Korean War Project?

34 posted on 01/02/2007 2:41:44 PM PST by syriacus (30,000 US deaths in Korea in 2 1/2 years under Democrat Truman (Jul, 1950 - Dec, 1952))
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To: Alberta's Child
It's also no coincidence that the U.S. either lost those wars, or has committed itself to a perpetual military presence in those places.

Interesting....

35 posted on 01/02/2007 3:07:54 PM PST by syriacus (30,000 US deaths in Korea in 2 1/2 years under Democrat Truman (Jul, 1950 - Dec, 1952))
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To: syriacus
Isn't it funny.....
* Kennedy didn't need to find WMDs to justify going into Vietnam
* Clinton didn't need to find WMDs in the former Yugoslavia and
* Truman didn't need to find WMDs in Korea.

And isn't it even funnier that not one of those was justified?

But she goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own. She will commend the general cause by the countenance of her voice, and the benignant sympathy of her example. She well knows that by once enlisting under other banners than her own, were they even the banners of foreign independence, she would involve herself beyond the power of extrication, in all the wars of interest and intrigue, of individual avarice, envy, and ambition, which assume the colors and usurp the standard of freedom. The fundamental maxims of her policy would insensibly change from liberty to force.... She might become the dictatress of the world. She would be no longer the ruler of her own spirit....--John Quincy Adams

36 posted on 01/02/2007 3:16:08 PM PST by billbears (Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it. --Santayana)
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To: billbears

I was a pacifist for almost 30 years, so I think I can look at wars fairly objectively.


37 posted on 01/02/2007 3:21:36 PM PST by syriacus (30,000 US deaths in Korea in 2 1/2 years under Democrat Truman (Jul, 1950 - Dec, 1952))
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To: syriacus

It has nothing to do with pacifism but rather the role the Framers intended for this union of states. WWII was necessary. But if only to fix Wilson's mistakes. Unfortunately once you start down that road every 'fix' creates yet another mistake.


38 posted on 01/02/2007 3:33:56 PM PST by billbears (Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it. --Santayana)
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To: billbears
Unfortunately once you start down that road every 'fix' creates yet another mistake.

I agree. When we fix one world problem, another one results. We will never have peace the way things are now.

The question becomes...how much do you undertake to do to save people who are in trouble right now? How much do you undertake to do to deter folks who you realize want to harm you?

39 posted on 01/02/2007 6:20:10 PM PST by syriacus (30,000 US deaths in Korea in 2 1/2 years under Democrat Truman (Jul, 1950 - Dec, 1952))
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To: syriacus
how much do you undertake to do to save people who are in trouble right now?

None. Not any of our business (from a government standpoint). However if a private individual wishes to donate to or serve in a separate movement that is working to alleviate that situation that's their business. But government intervention? Not a chance.

How much do you undertake to do to deter folks who you realize want to harm you?

Again, none. Just war only applies in defense, or in some cases retaliation against harm already done to you. Pre-emptive attacks are nonsensical and in some cases, unfortunately after the fact, it is determined there was little to no actual threat.

If there are only two things the 20th century should have taught, it is those. Unfortunately we will not learn. From Iraq, with the Democrats now in control, it will become a national interest to somehow become involved in Darfur. After that who knows where the rambling wreck of democracy will be off to? But more than likely over time (long term) it will prove to be yet another failure. This is not an anti-American sentiment. It is based solely on history and the failed importation of ideas into other cultures by force.

40 posted on 01/02/2007 6:46:30 PM PST by billbears (Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it. --Santayana)
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To: syriacus

That ain't it!

Saddam still had Pre-Gulf War CW stashed all around Iraq. It was suppose to be declared to the UN after the Gulf War but US forces discovered it after 2003!

The whole country must be chemical dump.


"Santorum said the two-month-old report was prepared by the National Ground Intelligence Center, a military intelligence agency that started looking for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq when the Iraq Survey Group stopped doing so in late 2004.

Last year the head of Iraq Survey Group, Charles Duelfer, said that insurgents in Iraq had already used old chemical weapons in their attacks.

Nevertheless, "the impression that the Iraqi Survey Group left with the American people was they didn't find anything," Hoekstra said.

"But this says: Weapons have been discovered; more weapons exist. And they state that Iraq was not a WMD-free zone, that there are continuing threats from the materials that are or may still be in Iraq," he said.

Asked just how dangerous the weapons are, Hoekstra said: "One or two of these shells, the materials inside of these, transferred outside of the country, can be very, very deadly."

The report said that the purity of the chemical agents -- and thus their potency -- depends on "many factors, including the manufacturing process, potential additives, and environmental storage conditions."

"While agents degrade over time, chemical warfare agents remain hazardous and potentially lethal," it said.

Reporters questioned the lawmakers as to why the Bush administration had not played up the report to boost their case for continued warfare in Iraq.

"The administration has been very clear that they want to look forward," Santorum said. "They felt it was not their role to go back and fight previous discussions."

Fear that Saddam Hussein might use his alleged arsenal of chemical and biological weapons was may reason US officials gave for launching the March 2003 invasion of Iraq."

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/06/21/060622014432.acs11f38.html

Though about 500 chemical weapons - the exact number has not been released publicly - have been found, Maples said he doesn't believe Iraq is a "WMD-free zone."

"I do believe the former regime did a very poor job of accountability of munitions, and certainly did not document the destruction of munitions," he said. "The recovery program goes on, and I do not believe we have found all the weapons."

http://www.military.com/features/0,15240,103631,00.html?ESRC=coastgnews.RSS


41 posted on 01/03/2007 1:15:48 PM PST by Milligan (THERE IS A CONNECTION)
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To: Milligan


Making Perfume bottles into CW

Iraq War Truth Squad
Frank Gaffney | June 19, 2006
http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,101725,00.html


42 posted on 01/03/2007 1:39:17 PM PST by Milligan (THERE IS A CONNECTION)
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To: syriacus
On average, a bad month in Iraq would have been a good month in Korea

Number of US deaths, month by month

-------Iraq War------Korean War

65 2,849
73 1,754
37 3,345
30 386
47 3,475
35 2,154
30 657
43 2,068
82 886
40 1,072
47 1,161
19 806
52 314
147 504
88 1,394
44 1,659
61 531
71 221
84 206
68 147
140 175
73 226
108 201
62 484
36 450
52 412
82 619
77 1,017
55 302
85 197
54 173
96 243
88 541
67 310
65 199
56 471
33 1,006
81 7
71 5
61 63
51 52
70 360
76 131
108 129
76 83
30

43 posted on 01/05/2007 6:16:04 AM PST by syriacus (Iraq War is like the Korean War - but with a GOP prez, 10% of the deaths, an antagonistic MSM)
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To: Panzerfaust
You were unhappy with my choice of months for a comparison between US military deaths in the Iraq War and in the Korean War.

Spurred on by your dissatisfaction, I've composed a rudimentary table which compares the two "wars," month-by-month for close to 4 years.

I think it can be safely said tha, a bad month in Iraq would have been a good month in Korea

Number of US military deaths, month by month

-------Iraq War------Korean War

65 2,849
73 1,754
37 3,345
30 386
47 3,475
35 2,154
30 657
43 2,068
82 886
40 1,072
47 1,161
19 806
52 314
147 504
88 1,394
44 1,659
61 531
71 221
84 206
68 147
140 175
73 226
108 201
62 484
36 450
52 412
82 619
77 1,017
55 302
85 197
54 173
96 243
88 541
67 310
65 199
56 471
33 1,006
81 7
71 5
61 63
51 52
70 360
76 131
108 129
76 83
30

I hope to do some calculating, to figure out running totals for each war, by month and by year.

It should be interesting. Thank you for the idea!!

44 posted on 01/05/2007 6:23:12 AM PST by syriacus (Iraq War is like the Korean War - but with a GOP prez, 10% of the deaths, an antagonistic MSM)
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To: Chi-townChief

One of them is my wife's uncle


45 posted on 01/05/2007 6:24:14 AM PST by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
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To: syriacus
If 3,000 deaths is some "magic cutoff point" for support for a war, Truman should have withdrawn his troops within a couple of months of sending them there.

Correction:

If 3,000 deaths is some "magic cutoff point" for support for a war, Truman should have withdrawn his troops from Korea within 35 days of sending them there.

46 posted on 01/05/2007 6:30:17 AM PST by syriacus (Iraq War is like the Korean War - but with a GOP prez, 10% of the deaths, an antagonistic MSM)
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To: bannie

"Interrupt the flow of the spin."


Indeed. The key to defeating the IdiotLeft is to destroy their basic premises.

Similarly, this same concept writ large, indicates that there is a screaming need for conservative news generation sources. Even a truly conservative national television channel would be just a small step in the proper direction.

The genesis and initial orientation of news stories is where conservatives need to get busy.


47 posted on 01/05/2007 6:37:48 AM PST by EyeGuy
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