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Troops Flee From Border Outpost(Unarmed National Guard)
The Washington Times ^ | January 6, 2007 | Jerry Seper

Posted on 01/06/2007 6:38:04 AM PST by kellynla

Armed men overran a National Guard observation post along the U.S.-Mexico border in Arizona this week, forcing the soldiers to retreat and prompting an investigation by the U.S. Border Patrol that has focused on the intruders' identity. No shots were exchanged and no one was injured in the incident, which occurred shortly after 11 p.m. on Wednesday. The National Guard troops were members of an entry-identification team, assigned to monitor major illegal-alien and drug-smuggling corridors. After forcing the soldiers to flee, the unidentified men retreated into Mexico. National Guard Sgt. Edward Balaban said the troops did not know how many men were involved in the attack "because obviously it took place in the dark." He said National Guard officials are investigating the incident and will determine shortly whether to change any procedures for troops at the border.

(Excerpt) Read more at washtimes.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Government
KEYWORDS: aliens; border; illegals; immigrantlist; nationalguard; natlguarddisarmed; natlguardunarmed; unarmedpatrol
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The agents, who referred to the assignment as "the nanny patrol," said most of the Guard troops are not allowed to carry loaded weapons, despite a significant increase in violence directed at Border Patrol agents during the past year.
1 posted on 01/06/2007 6:38:08 AM PST by kellynla
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To: gubamyster; A. Pole; HiJinx

ping


2 posted on 01/06/2007 6:38:42 AM PST by kellynla (Freedom of speech makes it easier to spot the idiots! Semper Fi!)
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To: kellynla

Thank God Pelosi's here. She'll fix this.


3 posted on 01/06/2007 6:40:47 AM PST by neodad (USS Vincennes (CG-49) Freedom's Fortress)
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To: kellynla; Dane

"The agents, who referred to the assignment as "the nanny patrol," said most of the Guard troops are not allowed to carry loaded weapons, despite a significant increase in violence directed at Border Patrol agents during the past year."

Dane is going to be thrilled about this policy.


4 posted on 01/06/2007 6:41:48 AM PST by indcons (Fellow FReepers - Best Wishes for 2007.)
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To: neodad

Thank God Bush is there. He'll fix it.


5 posted on 01/06/2007 6:43:32 AM PST by Iwo Jima ("Close the border. Then we'll talk.")
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To: neodad

It is disturbing that the current administration choose to condone this.


6 posted on 01/06/2007 6:43:39 AM PST by WhiteGuy (GOP Congress - 16,000 earmarks costing US $50 billion in 2006)
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7 posted on 01/06/2007 6:43:42 AM PST by kellynla (Freedom of speech makes it easier to spot the idiots! Semper Fi!)
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To: kellynla

According to the Minuteman representative that was on FOX this morning, these "incursions" have happened twice this week. On Wednesday the Guard retreated and on Thursday the invaders retreated.

It may explain the lack of clarity on this story.


8 posted on 01/06/2007 6:44:48 AM PST by cripplecreek (Peace without victory is a temporary illusion.)
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To: kellynla

This is positive proof that not every illegal immigrant is coming to do the work Americans won't do.

Might as well refer to the National Guard as Bobbies if they are going to be unarmed. That kind of protection from criminal intent is unacceptable.


9 posted on 01/06/2007 6:46:03 AM PST by o_zarkman44
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To: kellynla

So, let's see if I understand this......

We send National Guard troops to the border to help the Border Patrol.

We send National Guard troops to the border to help defend the border.

We send National Guard troops to help the border patrol and defend the border - but we give them no powers to do anything and no weapons.

This is in a known area of violence and heavily used by drug and smuggling gangs.

And the National Guard when confronted - runs away.

This is worse than not having a National Guard on the border.

"National Guard" is an oxymoron.

The president and congress who set this up are not an oxymoron.

They are simply moronic.


10 posted on 01/06/2007 6:47:07 AM PST by Basheva
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To: cripplecreek

bottom line: the NG are UNARMED!
I haven't heard such a ridiculous story since the NG were stationed at LAX after 9/11 without ammo!!!


11 posted on 01/06/2007 6:48:21 AM PST by kellynla (Freedom of speech makes it easier to spot the idiots! Semper Fi!)
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To: kellynla
(Guard wasn't overrun by gunmen, official says)

A must read!

12 posted on 01/06/2007 6:52:37 AM PST by yoe
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To: kellynla
National Guard officials are investigating the incident and will determine shortly whether to change any procedures for troops at the border.

Arming them might be the first order of business.

===

New amnesty push likely in 07 by Bush, Dems
  Posted by Mount Athos
On 01/04/2007 7:32:40 AM CST · 14 replies · 209+ views


Marietta Daily Journal ^ | Wednesday, January 3 | D.A. King
Five years into the war on terror, most Americans desperately hoped 2006 would be "the year" for solutions to the long national nightmare of intentionally unsecured borders and the resulting illegal immigration crisis. For many, the dream was that at a minimum, we would begin to see border security and immigration law enforcement similar to what Mexicans still living in Mexico enjoy. It didn't happen. According to a report released in late 2006 by the House Committee of Homeland Security, up to 10 million people entered the United States illegally and un-inspected last year. Georgia watched as its population of...

13 posted on 01/06/2007 6:53:38 AM PST by TomGuy
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To: WhiteGuy

"It is disturbing that the current administration choose to condone this."

Reminds me of US Marines in Beruit, 1983.


14 posted on 01/06/2007 6:53:56 AM PST by Rb ver. 2.0
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To: kellynla

Which is why the National Guardsmen should be backed up with overhead UAV surveillance making video tapes of this sort of engagement.

The National Guard was intentionally sent to the border without weapons at the ready, something they would not consider if they were putting down an eruption of violence at a shopping mall.


15 posted on 01/06/2007 6:56:42 AM PST by alloysteel (Character is a private trait. Reputation is the public aspect that is revealed.)
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To: kellynla
http://www-tech.mit.edu/Bulletins/nafta.html

North American Free Trade Agreement

It is complete and in HTML

I get the idea that our military can not be on the border without agreement with the other country.
16 posted on 01/06/2007 6:57:21 AM PST by HuntsvilleTxVeteran ("Remember the Alamo, Goliad and WACO, It is Time for a new San Jacinto")
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To: kellynla

Armed border agents with the right to shoot is what is needed not this crappy wimpy crap.


17 posted on 01/06/2007 6:58:05 AM PST by Dustbunny (The BIBLE - Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth)
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To: yoe

yep, I read the piece earlier this week.


18 posted on 01/06/2007 6:58:06 AM PST by kellynla (Freedom of speech makes it easier to spot the idiots! Semper Fi!)
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To: kellynla
I haven't heard such a ridiculous story since the NG were stationed at LAX after 9/11 without ammo!!!

I have.

US guards at Iraqi prisons were issued rubber bullets after the Abu Ghraib prison fiasco.

Imagine being in a war zone, guarding the worst of the enemy prisoners, and having only rubber bullets. [This problem came to light when US guards had to retreat and await forces will real bullets during prison riots and insurgent incursions.]
19 posted on 01/06/2007 6:58:10 AM PST by TomGuy
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Comment #20 Removed by Moderator

To: yoe
From your link.

A Border Patrol official says National Guard troops acted appropriately this week when they abandoned their post near the border southwest of Tucson as four gunmen approached from Mexico.

Sounds like a word game to me. Since they retreated they couldn't have been overrun.
21 posted on 01/06/2007 7:05:20 AM PST by cripplecreek (Peace without victory is a temporary illusion.)
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To: yoe


Border Patrol official says they weren't overrun, but the NG did abandon their post as 4 armed men from Mexico approached.

===

BP official needs to extract his head from where the sun doesn't shine.


22 posted on 01/06/2007 7:06:12 AM PST by TomGuy
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To: kellynla
These are trial runs. This is what terrorists do. They test the will and if they see us running, they're going to become more emboldened and start opening fire or even outright invade.
23 posted on 01/06/2007 7:09:51 AM PST by Extremely Extreme Extremist (Why can't Republicans stand up to Democrats like they do to terrorists?)
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To: neodad

"Thank God Pelosi's here. She'll fix this."

Absolutely. The lesson for her will be that when soldiers don't have those nasty ol' guns, no one gets hurt. Next she'll want to disarm the troops in Iraq.


24 posted on 01/06/2007 7:15:48 AM PST by Spok (He who bites the hands that feeds him will lick the boot that kicks him.)
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To: TEX06

"The so called Republican party needs to go the way of the Whigs in early 1850s --into oblivion and the trash heap of history."


As one who has been very critical of Bush's failure to enforce the immigration laws and the runaway congressional spending, I believe the Gelding Old Party just needs a testicle transplant.
I would like to see Dick Cheney run for POTUS in 2008, Condi Rice run for U.S. Senate in California and a return to conservative values and policies.


25 posted on 01/06/2007 7:16:35 AM PST by kellynla (Freedom of speech makes it easier to spot the idiots! Semper Fi!)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
Anti-Cut-and-Run Sarcasm Torpedo ARMED. FIRE!!

It's a quagmire!

US OUT of North America!

Cheers!

26 posted on 01/06/2007 7:17:30 AM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
"outright invade?"

This country has been "outright overridden" for decades.
We have millions of illegals roaming about the country unabated, one third of all incarcerated being illegals, illegal drugs being trafficked, who knows how many muzzie terroists have crossed the borders and the Bush administration just sits on their fat arses and does
N...O...T...H...I...N...G!
27 posted on 01/06/2007 7:25:33 AM PST by kellynla (Freedom of speech makes it easier to spot the idiots! Semper Fi!)
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To: kellynla

We're losing our country, and all we stand for.


28 posted on 01/06/2007 7:25:37 AM PST by MizSterious (Anonymous sources often means "the voices in my head told me.")
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To: Dustbunny

If I were President, I'd send snipers to the border and pick them off one by one as they tried to cross the border. That's what we need, not "nanny patrols."


29 posted on 01/06/2007 7:27:52 AM PST by MizSterious (Anonymous sources often means "the voices in my head told me.")
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To: kellynla
I haven't heard such a ridiculous story since the NG were stationed at LAX after 9/11 without ammo!!!

Well, you remember how much damage Barney Fife did (usually to himself) when he used his one bullet.

Some of our leaders watched too much Andy Griffith as a kid.

30 posted on 01/06/2007 7:31:40 AM PST by Ole Okie
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To: kellynla

Do they make them paint a bull's eye on their uniforms, too?


31 posted on 01/06/2007 7:41:20 AM PST by 3AngelaD (ic.)
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To: yoe

this article is even more amazing than the other one. the guards were armed, apparently, but they are not supposed to really stop armed gangsters coming into America. so they have to retreat.


32 posted on 01/06/2007 7:46:57 AM PST by drhogan
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To: kellynla

Why in God's name would anyone deploy Nat Guard troops w/ out being armed? If only to set them up for failure, then it can be declared time to send them home, apparently.


33 posted on 01/06/2007 7:50:34 AM PST by Freedom4US (u)
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To: TEX06

the protection of our borders should be the issue that we emphasize most of all. we need armed forces with the authority to shoot, all along the entire southern border.


34 posted on 01/06/2007 7:51:22 AM PST by drhogan
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To: TEX06
Another example of the incompetence and corruption of the Bush Administration. The impeachment of President Bush is one of Nancy Polosi's project that I would support. Conservatives along with patriots and and Christians should coalese into a National Unity Part to protect and sustain Western Culture. The so called Republican party needs to go the way of the Whigs in early 1850s --into oblivion and the trash heap of history. I continue to be amazed that Bushbots and RINO lovers continue to deny reality!

The only thing dumber than the disarming the Nat'l Guard on the border is the over-reaction of some of the Tancredo/3rd Party kooks.

35 posted on 01/06/2007 7:51:51 AM PST by Diddle E. Squat (An easy 10-team playoff based on the BCS bowls can be implemented by next year. See my homepage.)
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To: kellynla

America 2007 is not America 1914.


36 posted on 01/06/2007 7:53:05 AM PST by AEMILIUS PAULUS (It is a shame that when these people give a riot)
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To: MizSterious

The US is about done, as a going concern, nobody has the guts to admit it, certainly not the politicians and un-elected trash that have precipitated these affairs. This is obviously by design and not incompetence. Best resign yourself to that fact and prepare yourself and family accordingly.


37 posted on 01/06/2007 7:53:32 AM PST by Freedom4US (u)
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To: cripplecreek

possibly the guard will be ordered to make a "strategic retreat" to somewhere near the canadian border, to prevent the possibility of being overrun by the gangsters.
that should fix the problem!


38 posted on 01/06/2007 7:54:00 AM PST by drhogan
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To: neodad
Thank God Pelosi's here. She'll fix this.

Bush sent them there unarmed... most of them were not even sent to patrol the border, most just in little training areas not even near the border.

39 posted on 01/06/2007 8:02:33 AM PST by LowOiL (Paul wrote, "Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil" (Rom. 12:9))
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To: kellynla
National Guard Sgt. Edward Balaban said the troops did not know how many men were involved in the attack "because obviously it took place in the dark."

Ever heard of "Night vision binoculars" ? I have a pair, they work.

40 posted on 01/06/2007 8:03:57 AM PST by LowOiL (Paul wrote, "Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil" (Rom. 12:9))
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To: kellynla; 1_Inch_Group; 2sheep; 2Trievers; 3AngelaD; 3pools; 3rdcanyon; 4Freedom; 4ourprogeny; ...
said most of the Guard troops are not allowed to carry loaded weapons,

I believe these troops were indeed carrying loaded M-16s. Rules of Engagement are such that they were not authorized to use their weapons under these circumstances.

(Old copy of ping list, forgive me if you're on this one after being asked to be removed...HJ)

41 posted on 01/06/2007 8:05:30 AM PST by HiJinx (Ask me about Support for our Troops)
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To: MizSterious
If I were President, I'd send snipers to the border and pick them off one by one as they tried to cross the border

That was my first thought when I read the article, just let the deer hunters snipe em.

42 posted on 01/06/2007 8:06:03 AM PST by DeepInTheHeartOfTexas
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To: drhogan

The OBL would scream "Posse Comitatus" but I fail to see how the posse comitatus act is supposed to prevent the NATIONal GUARD from GUARDing the NATION.


43 posted on 01/06/2007 8:11:36 AM PST by cripplecreek (Peace without victory is a temporary illusion.)
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To: yoe

No, they weren't overrun, they had to RETREAT because guys with M-16s were approaching them. We are being invaded. We can give guys in Iraq guns, but no guns for those who are defending American territory. Martinez is a master of confusion. Here's what your article says:

'The armed confrontation occurred around 11 p.m. Wednesday near Sasabe , about a quarter-mile north of the border. A team of four or five Guard troops, armed with M-16s , were watching for border crossers at an observation post when they spotted four men carrying what appeared to be rifles, Martinez said.

As the men came closer, the Guard troops left their post and called for the Border Patrol.

"In order to not be detected, they moved to a safer location," Martinez said. "That's exactly what we want them to do.

"They're armed for their protection. Once they are afraid for their lives, they can defend themselves.

"That was not the case." '


44 posted on 01/06/2007 8:13:28 AM PST by 3AngelaD (ic.)
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To: kellynla
Several Border Patrol agents in the area told The Washington Times yesterday the armed men might have been trying to find out what the Guard troops would do if they were confronted by drug or alien smugglers... "I guess they got their answer," said one veteran agent. "When in doubt, the troops will run."

Nice.

Its's official. The Minutemen are a more effective armed force along our border than the United States Army!

My only remaining question is, do we have an "exit strategy" to redeploy from America?

45 posted on 01/06/2007 8:14:13 AM PST by Gritty (What does it profit us if we save Anbar province but lose Arizona? Pat Buchanan)
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To: kellynla

Border insanity BUMP.


46 posted on 01/06/2007 8:15:13 AM PST by moehoward
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To: kellynla

Dick Cheney and Condi Rice are both members of CFR. I'll never vote for another member of that outfit. H. Bush was a member in the 1980 and resigned to run for president.

http://www.mega.nu:8080/ampp/roundtable/CFRL-Rlist.html#R


47 posted on 01/06/2007 8:26:03 AM PST by texastoo ("trash the treaties")
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To: Dustbunny

Send some Delta operators down there with open rules of engagement and see how many more times these druggies come across.


48 posted on 01/06/2007 8:26:52 AM PST by Farmer Dean (Every time a toilet flushes,another liberal gets his brains.)
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To: kellynla
I would like to see Dick Cheney run for POTUS in 2008, Condi Rice run for U.S. Senate in California and a return to conservative values and policies.

You're kidding, right?

Condi Rice espouses freedom of choice for women, aka abortion.

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20050311-115948-2015r.htm

Dick Cheney espouses homosexuality as an alternative lifestyle (in order to appease his lesbian daughter).

These are not conservative people. We need conservatives, but these ain't it!

49 posted on 01/06/2007 8:33:58 AM PST by LouAvul
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To: kellynla

The rules of engagement for this should be very simple. Carry loaded weapons but don't fire unless you are being threatened by armed intruders. Identify yourself and warn them that unless they retreat into Mexico immediately you will open fire. And then do it. Shoot, shovel, let the dips sort it out.


50 posted on 01/06/2007 8:34:52 AM PST by Sender ("Great powers should never get involved in the politics of small tribes.")
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