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U.S. Muslim Writer Agitates for Citizens to Disarm -- JPFO Fires Back
JPFO ^ | 1/8/07 | The Liberty Crew

Posted on 01/10/2007 8:24:49 AM PST by kiriath_jearim

Another “think tank,” this one called the Institute for Social Policy and Understanding (ISPU), has come out for total civilian disarmament and repeal of the Second Amendment.

What’s new about that? ISPU is openly pro-Muslim, and the ISPU writer is a criminal defense attorney who argues for repealing parts of the Bill of Rights.

You can read the whole article, entitled “In the Fight Against Terrorism, Some Rights Must Be Repealed,” by Junaid Afeef, on the ISPU website:

A JPFO supporter sent us the link, and we did read the article, looking for:

a. Inaccurate “facts” b. Missing data and support for factual claims c. Tricks in shifting the context or changing the subject d. Statements of opinion presented as though they were unquestionable facts e. Insults, innuendoes and smears f. Key facts or considerations that are totally ignored g. Logic errors

We found many errors, fallacies, propaganda tricks, and an outright lie or two. When you read the piece, see how many you can find.

Or – you can go directly to our analysis and response to the article, entitled “A Muslim Writer Tells America: Drop Your Guns and Give Up" at

We take the ISPU article apart, paragraph by paragraph. Some of the points may be familiar to you, but there are a few new twists.

Do we expect to convince ISPU or Mr. Afeef of the errors of their position? Not really. We are publishing a response so that gun owners and rights supporters can keep their intellectual guns polished and powder dry.

The enemies of the Bill of Rights come in all flavors. We can never rest, thinking that we have answered all of their challenges.

Let us know what you think after reading our response.

The Liberty Crew

TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government
KEYWORDS: 2ndammendment; aamirrehman; abdulazizsachedina; abdulbasit; afeef; ahmed; akbarahmed; akram; aliens; aminahmccloud; arshadahmed; asifaquraishi; bagby; banglist; basit; benjaminpowell; billofrights; ceiii; chamberlin; dhimmitude; ejazakram; eland; ezzeldine; fareed; faridsenzai; fawazgerges; fifthcolumn; fmcdh; gerges; grahamfuller; grewal; haddad; hanley; heatherjanisse; ihsanbagby; immigration; islam; ispu; ivaneland; jackshaheen; jackson; jameshanley; jamespiscatori; janisse; josephlumbard; jpfo; jumanivasi; junaidafeef; lumbard; mccloud; mogul; muneerfareed; muqtedarkhan; muslims; nyang; omarezzeldine; paultoro; piscatori; powell; quraishi; rehman; sachedina; saeedkhan; senzai; shaheen; shermanjackson; simonchamberlin; sulaymannyang; toro; trop; umarmogul; vasi; wot; yvonnehaddad; zareenagrewal
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To: Ancesthntr

Excellent definition of "Never again"

101 posted on 01/10/2007 6:28:39 PM PST by healy61
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To: Darksheare; scott0347; timpad; Conspiracy Guy; NYC GOP Chick; MeekOneGOP; Fedora; OSHA; cyborg; ...

a for-real RKBA ping

now, why would a "think tank" comprising mostly immigrant muslims think it meet to advocate disarming the private citizens of the US, and repealing the Second Amendment?
< /biting sarcasm >

102 posted on 01/10/2007 6:34:13 PM PST by King Prout (many complain I am overly literal... this would not be a problem if fewer people were under-precise)
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To: perfect stranger

Probably ran it when it came out in late Oct. Thanks!

103 posted on 01/10/2007 6:47:48 PM PST by pookie18 ([Hillary Rotten] Clinton does Dr. Demento Dean, Bela Pelosi & Benedick Durbin!!)
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To: Just A Nobody

Bump THAT!

104 posted on 01/10/2007 6:59:35 PM PST by Brad’s Gramma (
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To: 3AngelaD

My guess that most of it comes from Saudi Arabia. The fools and idiots who voted in the Democrats in '06 contributed the rest.

105 posted on 01/10/2007 7:04:29 PM PST by sport
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To: supercat
"...Many people campaign for gun control for the purpose of putting themselves and their friends in a position of superiority over those foolish enough to disarm..."

True enough! It's the people that believe them that are fu*king morons................FRegards

106 posted on 01/10/2007 7:04:50 PM PST by gonzo (I'm not confused anymore. Now I'm sure we have to completely destroy Islam, and FAST!!)
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To: wku man
As far as pistols go, the most important thing to remember is that a handgun is a last ditch defense weapon. Forget the movie stuff about picking off a bad guy at 50 yards with a snub nosed revolver or Colt Peacemaker.

I believe that it was the late, Great (and greatly missed) Colonel Jeff Cooper ("The developer of the modern pistol methods")who said that "a handgun is what you use to fight your way back to your rifle!"


107 posted on 01/10/2007 7:18:10 PM PST by MarkL (When Kaylee says "No power in the `verse can stop me," it's cute. When River says it, it's scary!)
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To: King Prout
Image hosted by cause they're fraid we're bout ready to start playin Cowboys and Muslimes my Liege???

good to hear from you.

108 posted on 01/10/2007 7:46:55 PM PST by Chode (American Hedonist ©®)
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To: King Prout
"...against all enemies, foreign or domestic."

My oath to my country didnt end when I retired.

There is now a muslim inside the halls of congress. This kind of spew will only get worse until it is crushed out.
109 posted on 01/10/2007 7:52:08 PM PST by Delta 21 ( MKC USCG - ret)
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To: Fred Nerks; jan in Colorado; ariamne; USF; Dark Skies; Former Dodger; Alouette; hosepipe; ...

Uhhhhh -

That was "Roll call" at the local wahhabi mosque last Friday, right?

or maybe the attendance roster at the IED manufacturing lecture?

couldn't have been a list of moslem scholars

we all know there is no such thing!

A.A.C. - acid wit set on "Stun and kill"

"The Final Crusade has commenced: Slot your local imam!"

110 posted on 01/10/2007 8:23:42 PM PST by AmericanArchConservative (Armour on, Lances high, Swords out, Bows drawn, Shields front ... Eagles UP!)
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To: kiriath_jearim

It is all quite reasonable considering that mohos think of terrorism as anything that retards the progress of Sharia.

111 posted on 01/10/2007 8:31:15 PM PST by arthurus (Better to fight them over THERE than over HERE)
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To: MarkL
Exactly! Of course, that's why I recommend every rifle and shotgun have a sling. You don't have to fight your way back to it if you have it with you at all times.

Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!

112 posted on 01/10/2007 9:07:34 PM PST by wku man (Claire Wolfe's "awkward time" is quickly coming to an end!)
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To: JZelle
What arsenal do you recommend?

The M1 Garand is a classic.

Available at a good price from the Civilian Marksmanship Program.

113 posted on 01/10/2007 9:14:08 PM PST by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: AmericanArchConservative

Dr. Benjamin Powell (Fellow) Director Center on Entrepreneurial Innovation The Independent Institute

Graham Fuller (Fellow) Political Consultant RAND Corporation

Dr. Heather Janisse (Fellow) Project Director: Research Group on Homelessness and Poverty

Dr. Ivan Eland (Fellow) Director Center On Peace & Liberty The Independent Institute

Dr. James Piscatori (Adjunct Scholar) Professor Oxford University

James Hanley (Fellow) Professor & Dept. Chair Adrian College

Dr. Joseph Lumbard (Adjunct Scholar) Professor American University, Cairo

Dr. Linda Forsyth Weidenhamer ISPU Fellow

Dr. Paul Toro (Fellow) Director: Research Group on Homelessness and Poverty

Dr. Sherman Jackson (Adjunct Scholar) Professor University of Michigan

Simon Chamberlin (Fellow) Ph.D.Candidate Oxford University

OK, I've taken out the smelly names, and this is what we are left with...LEFT with...a bunch of goody two shoes who wouldn't know if a terrorist bit them on the A$$ and a few academics in ivory towers.

Lord save us from idiots, cowards and fools. The muzzies who want to kill us we can deal with ourselves.

114 posted on 01/10/2007 9:14:28 PM PST by Fred Nerks (Read THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD free pdf download. Link on my bio page.)
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To: King Prout; All
Hi, KP!

a for-real RKBA ping

And this prompts me to dust off and post the for-real RKBA logo!

115 posted on 01/11/2007 1:59:31 AM PST by Watery Tart (And some here think it ONLY stands for RoadKillBeeberAssociation!)
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To: Joe Brower

Did you take a look at their BOD?

Every one is a Muslim.

116 posted on 01/11/2007 2:04:11 AM PST by Abundy
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To: kiriath_jearim

In the end it will take the common everyday American to stand up to these jihadis.

117 posted on 01/11/2007 4:15:02 AM PST by Biggirl (A biggirl with a big heart for God's animal creation.)
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To: Red_Devil 232

At least the Australians get it. I wish our government had even a slight clue, instead of sucking up, apologizing and pandering to them. What ever we do overseas does not serve us one bit until we correct the situation in our own country.

118 posted on 01/11/2007 7:51:33 AM PST by 3AngelaD (ic.)
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To: unionblue83

This fifth column group in Michigan is advertising for an executive director.

119 posted on 01/11/2007 7:53:03 AM PST by 3AngelaD (ic.)
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To: kiriath_jearim
Well well . . . moslems arguing for civilian disarmament. That must be a shock to the folks who go around saying that "the Jews are an anti-gun race" (ignoring the position of America's Catholic bishops, who have much more influence than any Jew) and who reflexively take the side of the enemies of the Jewish People.

No, strike that. It won't change a thing.

And remember, folks, liberals are not "anti-gun." Liberals love guns. They love them so much they want to be the only people who can legally own them. It's the fact that anone can own a gun that drives them crazy!

120 posted on 01/11/2007 7:53:50 AM PST by Zionist Conspirator ( . . . vayar' vehinneh, haseneh bo`er ba'esh, vahaseneh 'eynennu 'ukkal.)
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To: kracker

'He's personally welcome to take mine.' I'll say. Molon labe buddy.

121 posted on 01/11/2007 8:06:28 AM PST by bboop (Stealth Tutor)
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To: mbynack

Well, the qualifications don't evidently include that you have to THINK.

122 posted on 01/11/2007 8:08:18 AM PST by bboop (Stealth Tutor)
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To: backtothestreets
There was an amendment proposed in the 102nd Congress (1991-1992) to repeal the Second Amendment

That used to be the FIRST thing that Charles "Chucky-boy" Schumer would submit when Congress convened.
There was also a document called the "Declaration of Interdependence" or some such crap introduced at one time.
I have a copy of that somewhere, I'll see if I can find it.
It's with my "Combat Arms Survey" I think.

123 posted on 01/11/2007 8:30:49 AM PST by concretebob (Those that insist we can just feed the alligator will be eaten last.)
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To: 3AngelaD
Gosh, wonder why the Muslims want us to give up our guns?

Ooh, Ooh, I know, I know!

124 posted on 01/12/2007 10:32:06 AM PST by archy (Et Thybrim multo spumantem sanguine cerno. [from Virgil's *Aeneid*.])
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To: kalee
Repeal the koran.

Nah. Feed it to pigs.

They know what to do with it.

125 posted on 01/12/2007 10:34:32 AM PST by archy (Et Thybrim multo spumantem sanguine cerno. [from Virgil's *Aeneid*.])
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To: MarkL
I believe that it was the late, Great (and greatly missed) Colonel Jeff Cooper ("The developer of the modern pistol methods")who said that "a handgun is what you use to fight your way back to your rifle!"

He certainly agreed with the idea, though Cooper had personally experienced several situations during which a handgun was the only weapon immediately practical or permissable, as when he travelled in Central America.

The aphorism is more properly attributed to Clint Smith, founder of the Thunder Ranch training facility, which teaches expertise with both weapons.

Like the late Col. Cooper, Smith is a former Marine.

126 posted on 01/12/2007 10:39:47 AM PST by archy (Et Thybrim multo spumantem sanguine cerno. [from Virgil's *Aeneid*.])
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To: JZelle
What arsenal do you recommend? I only have a 12 ga. at the moment.

That's a good basic beginning, though the shotgun has a limited ability against multiple opponents or those at a distance. And some ammunition can throw a considerable muzzleflash at night, which can either flashblind you or shout *throw grenade here* to those who don't like you. Get yourself a handgun for those circumstances when your longer weapons are immediately unavailable, and a rifle with much greater range than either, and you're well on your way. And get yourself three times as much ammunition as you *think* you need; a third is your immediaye working reserve, a third is for practice and training, and the rest can be used as backup as you expend any of the other, for barter, or for friends of yours less well-equipped.

127 posted on 01/12/2007 10:46:24 AM PST by archy (Et Thybrim multo spumantem sanguine cerno. [from Virgil's *Aeneid*.])
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To: 3AngelaD
Battle of Vienna 1683: The Turks lost about 15,000 men in the fighting, compared to approximately 4,000 for the Habsburg-Polish forces. Where is Leopold I when we need him?

You need to check out the details of the First Battle of Plevna on On 18 July 18 1877, and the following engagements, when both the Turks and the presumably Orthodox Christian Tsarist Russian forces were using single-shot rifles, the Turks Spencers, and the Russians their *Krnka* breeckloader similar to our trap-door Springfield.

Until the outnumbering Russians reached a marked point about 200 yards fromn the Turkish trenches, whereupon the Turks set their single-shots aside and picked up the nice new lever-action 1966 and 1973 Winchester rifles they'd obtained. The First Battle of Plevna ended with Russian losses of 74 officers and 2,771 men who fell in a fire fight that lasted only 15-20 minutes. They left behind on the field 17 wagons of ammunition. Turkish losses were only 12 killed and 30 wounded.

The Russians continued to attempt frontal assaults on the Turkish positions for some six days, finally running out of conscripts before the Turks ran out of ammo. And so it went until September of that year, with the final results being the annihiliation of more than a Russian Corps, more than 25,000 men, by a force of 10-15,000 Turks.

The Russian infantry accepted these losses in their usual stoic manner, but by the time they were 600-700 yards from the Turks, they began to unravel and break up into clusters. Some groups lay down to avoid the hail of lead and were goaded to their feet by their officers who valiantly urged them onwards. The concussion of Turkish rifle fire was constant and was augmented by Turkish artillery firing shrapnel shells into the Russian line. As the Turk officers called out each new range change, the riflemen adjusted their sights and poured forth more bullets in the general direction of the Russian line. The Winchesters lay next to many of them, fully loaded with 14 rounds. A box of 500 rounds was placed next to each repeating rifle, and other ammunition reserves were close at hand.

Still they came forward, these obedient Russian sol­diers, until they reached a point 200 yards from the Turkish trench line, when the order was given for the Turkish artillery, to cease fire and the riflemen to pick up their Winchesters and commence rapid fire. As the Winchesters spewed forth their rapid fire fusillade of lead, Russians fell in greater numbers than before. Still they came forward, bayonets fixed, ready to impale their oppressors in the trenches. According to prior plans, the Turks stopped shoot­ing when the Russians were about 50 yards from the trench line, and they now abandoned their first line of trenches and ran back into their second trench line, where they commenced their rifle fire all over again. The Russian advance stalled and took cover in the Turkish first line of trenches.

Prince Schachowskoi received a message that Gen. Krudner was sending a regiment to reinforce him, but they lost their way and never arrived in time to help. At 4:00 p.m., he could hold himself back no longer and ordered his remaining troops to charge the second line of trenches. The long-range Peabody-Martinis started their deadly plunging fire again, and Russians fell in large numbers as they worked their way uphill. closer to the second line. Once more the Winchesters took up the close-range fight, sending their wall of hot lead, decimating the oncoming infantry line. In a few places, Russians managed to get into the second line trench­es and, surprisingly, two companies actually got into Plevna itself, but Osman threw strong reserves into these points and drove them back.

By 6:00 p.m.. both flanks of the Russians had ended their attacks, but in desperation, Gen. Krudner sent his reserves, the Serpoukhof Regiment, into action near the center. These gallant men caught plunging fire as soon as they formed up their lines, and not one got closer than 100 yards of the Turk first trench line. Their leader, General Bojerianof. was hit near the 100 yard markers and was car­ried back by those of his personal guard who were still unhurt.

By 7:00 p.m., the Turks had full control of their second line trenches and attacked the now retreating forces of Prince Schachowskoi. who had no men available to act as a rear guard. The Prince sent a message to Gen. Skobeleff on his left. It read, "Extricate yourself as best you can. My companies (originally 200 strong) are coming back 5 and 10 men strong!" His personal guard had all been slain, and he kept around himself a small group of Cossacks. He man­aged to escape back to the Russian encampment four miles north of Plevna. His remaining soldiers were literally being driven before the Turkish rifle fire, causing the Russians to abandon three artillery pieces, all their wagons and their wounded (whom the Turks killed off during the night, as they took no prisoners).

News reporters wrote " find another instance of a corps being so rapidly destroyed as those the Russians used here, one has to go back to some of the frightful slaughters in the wars of the First French Empire." An official Russian report stated, "Turkish rifle fire was infernal on the flanks and center and seemed to in­crease greatly as our men neared the trenches." Thus ended the Second Battle of Plevna. Losses were reported to be 169 officers and 7,136 men. This represents 30 percent of the 26,000 that Gen. Krudner sent into battle.

The Grand Duke Nicholas was appalled and frustrated while Czar Alexander II messaged his demand for a successful attack to eliminate the stalemate at Plevna and to get the entire army moving again on all fronts. An army of Romanians had now joined the forces that Krudner had at Plevna. Rearmed, resupplied and rest­ed, the combined Russo-Romanian forces now numbered 80,000 men (later to increase to 150,000). These were divided into two 40,000-man groups, and one group was held back as a reserve. Those in the attack­ing group were ordered to move forward as close as possi­ble and to dig entrenchments and artillery positions on the north, south and east sides of Plevna. On the morning of Sept. 7th, they commenced a massive artillery bombard­ment which they maintained for four and one half days until noon on September 11th.

Turkish reports stated that this cannonade was totally ineffective and caused virtually no casualties or irreparable damage to their positions. The Turks were quite correct on this matter. Infantry in zig-zag trenches 15 inches wide could not be effectively harmed by shrapnel from shells that exploded in the ground. Only a direct hit could kill and wound, and then only in that immediate trench area.

At noon, the Third Battle of Plevna started much the same way that the others had, except for one difference. The Peabody-Martinis started killing the allied reserves that were gathered a few hundred yards behind the actual line of attacking units, over 1,000 yards from the Turkish riflemen! Turkish artillery and long-ranging Peabody-Martinis cut down large numbers of allied infantry long before they managed to reach the first trench line of the Turks. As before, the Winchesters did their remarkable job at the clos­er ranges. It was a repeat of battles number one and two. Krudner and his ranking advisors had seemingly learned nothing from their earlier mistakes.

128 posted on 01/12/2007 11:03:54 AM PST by archy (Et Thybrim multo spumantem sanguine cerno. [from Virgil's *Aeneid*.])
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