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Navy orders stand down of entire submarine force
wavy.com ^ | 01/15/2006 | N/A

Posted on 01/15/2007 12:17:56 PM PST by rwa265

Navy orders stand down of entire submarine force

In a news release, the commander of the U.S. Submarine Force announced today that it will conduct an Operational Stand Down in the wake of recent submarine incidents.

In a message to the submarine force, Vice Adm. Chuck Munns, U.S. Submarine Force commander, directed the immediate "stand down" to focus energy and intellect back onto the basics of submarine operations.

The stand down comes after two incidents involving Norfolk-based submarines.

(Excerpt) Read more at wavy.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: submarine
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To: TheKidster

How do you propose to do that?...When your entire submarine fleet stands down it becomes patently obvious. The stand down will not include three Missleboats on station.

The stand down will alleviate safety slack appearing in the fleet. Naval aviation has had such stand downs before when aviation accident rates increase due to maintenance or safety failures.


51 posted on 01/15/2007 3:27:37 PM PST by tomcorn
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To: UpAllNight

Riiiiiiiight.


52 posted on 01/15/2007 3:29:24 PM PST by Robert A. Cook, PE (I can only donate monthly, but Hillary's ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: Doohickey

--I'd spent eight of my 13 years on sea duty, which was merely "above average" compared to others I know.--

I would say above average amount of SHORE duty!


53 posted on 01/15/2007 3:29:24 PM PST by UpAllNight
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To: justshutupandtakeit

Subs have blue and gold crews. Don;t know what the cycle rate but is think a typical cycle is 90 day patrol 30 days refit and resupply then the gold crew takes a 90 day patrol then 30 days refit and supply.


54 posted on 01/15/2007 3:32:23 PM PST by tomcorn
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To: Disambiguator

Dont believe Lombardi coached at Notre Dame. He coached at Fordham,West Point, and Green Bay.


55 posted on 01/15/2007 3:36:36 PM PST by tomcorn
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To: justshutupandtakeit
How do the subs stay at sea almost all the time it there is no off crew?

There are two crews (Blue and Gold). They swap when the sub comes into port

56 posted on 01/15/2007 3:39:15 PM PST by SauronOfMordor (Never try to teach a pig to sing -- it wastes your time and it annoys the pig)
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To: UpAllNight

Heh. If submarine detailers didn't force us to do an instructor tour in Groton, nobody would go. I'm sure I won't be the only one on this thread that wanted another boat rather than rotate to NAVSUBSCOL.


57 posted on 01/15/2007 3:41:50 PM PST by Doohickey (I am not unappeasable. YOU are just too easily appeased.)
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To: tomcorn

Got it, thanks


58 posted on 01/15/2007 3:42:44 PM PST by TheKidster (you can only trust government to grow, consolidate power and infringe upon your liberties.)
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To: rwa265

thanks Clinton.


59 posted on 01/15/2007 3:43:31 PM PST by balch3
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To: SauronOfMordor
That's only true of hotels boomers. Real submarines have only one crew.
60 posted on 01/15/2007 3:43:35 PM PST by Doohickey (I am not unappeasable. YOU are just too easily appeased.)
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To: justshutupandtakeit
here is a good article on sub procedure (with good pics)
61 posted on 01/15/2007 3:45:26 PM PST by SauronOfMordor (Never try to teach a pig to sing -- it wastes your time and it annoys the pig)
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To: tomcorn

That was my understanding. Thanks.


62 posted on 01/15/2007 3:49:45 PM PST by justshutupandtakeit (If you believe ANYTHING in the Treason Media you are a fool.)
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To: SauronOfMordor

Thanks that is what I was calling two crews.


63 posted on 01/15/2007 3:50:35 PM PST by justshutupandtakeit (If you believe ANYTHING in the Treason Media you are a fool.)
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To: RedRover

Thanks for this sonar ping Red.


64 posted on 01/15/2007 3:50:50 PM PST by lilycicero (It wasn't Waddles' fault.)
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To: SauronOfMordor

Ohio has been undergoing transformation from the Boomer type to one undertaking tactical missions. I got to tour it last summer when visiting my boy. Incredible machine and men manning her.

I am happy to say I admire my son for his achievement in this program. And thank his glorious mother for him she would be bursting with pride.


65 posted on 01/15/2007 3:54:03 PM PST by justshutupandtakeit (If you believe ANYTHING in the Treason Media you are a fool.)
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To: justshutupandtakeit
SSN = Saturdays, Sundays and Nights. The majority of of submarines do not have two crews. The poster you responded to is correct. Subsequent posters are providing you with information that true for only about 25 percent of the submarine force.
66 posted on 01/15/2007 3:55:57 PM PST by Doohickey (I am not unappeasable. YOU are just too easily appeased.)
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To: lilycicero

Thought you might like the company.


67 posted on 01/15/2007 4:01:48 PM PST by RedRover (They are not killers. Defend our Marines.)
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To: Doohickey

Cheap Shots duly noted, aye.

Question, though. Do the boats that have been converted from SSBNs to SSGNs have one or two crews?


68 posted on 01/15/2007 4:04:30 PM PST by SmithL (Where are we going? . . . . And why are we in this handbasket????)
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To: RedRover

Yes, it only took me one family cruise to know that it is a hard living. Submariners are ok by me!


69 posted on 01/15/2007 4:06:20 PM PST by lilycicero (It wasn't Waddles' fault.)
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To: Doohickey

See #49.


70 posted on 01/15/2007 4:13:40 PM PST by justshutupandtakeit (If you believe ANYTHING in the Treason Media you are a fool.)
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To: TheKidster

On the contrary--this is entirely for public consumption.


71 posted on 01/15/2007 4:14:57 PM PST by rottndog (While reading this tag, remember Tens of Thousands of Americans are risking their lives for you.)
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To: SmithL
Okay, okay. Im sorry. From now on I won't make fun of my Fleet Ballistic Missile boat brethern. I know how sensitive y'all are

Do the boats that have been converted from SSBNs to SSGNs have one or two crews

Ohio's web page only lists one CO, so I think it's safe to assume that gone to a singe crew now.

72 posted on 01/15/2007 4:17:13 PM PST by Doohickey (I am not unappeasable. YOU are just too easily appeased.)
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To: Palladin

A Safety stand down will not result in Submarines coming back to port--all it will be is a couple of days of intense training on basic seamanship and safety, and more importantly, documenting that this has been done. All other training and drilling will stop until this is done. This is much more for PR than anything else, although it does have a lot of value in rehashing the basics of safety.


73 posted on 01/15/2007 4:18:22 PM PST by rottndog (While reading this tag, remember Tens of Thousands of Americans are risking their lives for you.)
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To: justshutupandtakeit
How do the subs stay at sea almost all the time it there is no off crew?

At Sea priority #1--get on station and patrol, and stay there as long as possible or until relieved.

In Port priority #1--Get back out to sea to relieve another boat.


I can't tell you how many times we pulled into port just long enough to effect repairs and required maintenance, and then turned right back around and got back out to sea. Many times we were in just for a few hours. That's the life of an SSN submariner--very intense and fast paced, and absolutely unrelenting.

I have nothing but the deepest respect and admiration for those that stuck it out longer than I did, and I have absolutely no regrets for having served. I would gladly do it again.
74 posted on 01/15/2007 4:33:47 PM PST by rottndog (While reading this tag, remember Tens of Thousands of Americans are risking their lives for you.)
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To: tomcorn

Yes, I've already acknowledged my mistake. Next time I'll check up on myself before posting.

:^)


75 posted on 01/15/2007 4:39:12 PM PST by Disambiguator
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To: rwa265

Is this one of those "who is John Galt" things?


76 posted on 01/15/2007 4:40:37 PM PST by RobRoy (Islam is a greater threat to the world today than Nazism was in 1938.)
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To: justshutupandtakeit; SmithL

Okay, there's not really a blanket answer to that question. As much as I like to make fun of the boomer guys, they had a strategic mission that had entirely different demands from SSNs. Having to get a boat turned over to another crew and back to sea in a month was no picnic.

SSNs have a more tactical mission, so we went where operational requirements dictated. They're not "out all the time". Brief, frequent underways between deployments just makes it seem that way. My personal best is 284 days in a 12-month period, but most of the time it wasn't quite so much.


77 posted on 01/15/2007 4:41:16 PM PST by Doohickey (I am not unappeasable. YOU are just too easily appeased.)
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To: rwa265

bump for later reading


78 posted on 01/15/2007 5:33:32 PM PST by Kevmo (Darn, if only I had signed up 4 days earlier, I'd have a 3-digit Freeper #)
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE
Want I'm REALLY afraid of is that a "stand down" means thousands and thousands of EXTRA man-hours (or tens of thousands of extra man-days!!!!) of extra training and inspection - instead of a couple of hours of REST and THINKING of an overextended force with too few subs to do too many jobs that is actually what is needed. You can micro-manage your people to death. Literally.

It's been going on since Gulf War one when the downsizing started under Poppy. People need to wake up and understand ones like John Warner and Carl Levin should have been relieved of his chairmanships of the Armed Services Committee for failing to provide for our military. The over extensions have cost us plenty both in manpower and in loss of ships due to missed maintenance because they had to shorten rotation times and missed yard periods.

It started going downhill in 1989 here is the proof Shipboard Casualties The numbers speak for themselves and this wasn't even in war time but it was when the Reagan military gutting began. Note the high numbers in 1989. Several events happened. A new Secretary of Defense the second one after Weinberger, Secretary of the Navy, and likely CNO changed that year as well.

It's simply not gonna get any better at all until some congress critters like Warner and Levin are replaced as well as finding us another capable Sec of Defense the stature and wisdom of Cap Weinberger who actually honest to goodness understood how to rebuild and run the military that the DEMS and RINO's have now nearly ruined in overextending a minimal force.

Cap was outside the Ford/Bush inner circle as well that has been an albatross to our military within the GOP. The truth needs saying on the matter.

We've got to stop making the same ongoing mistakes of Ford/Rummy, Carter/Brown, Bush/Cheney, Clinton/Aspin/Perry/Cohen and Bush/Rummy and go back to what actually worked. Weinberger was the best Secretary of Defense post WW2 second to none and Bush and his buddies need to take a look at what the man did and follow his examples. Any man who could rebuild the military that Ford and Carter ran to the level of readiness IMO is the very best.

79 posted on 01/15/2007 9:58:40 PM PST by cva66snipe (If it was wrong for Clinton why do some support it for Bush? Party over nation destroys the nation.)
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To: grobdriver
We would do this in the VP Navy whenever there was an incident or accident.

USAF would do this periodically too when ever there is a rash of accidents.
80 posted on 01/15/2007 10:12:45 PM PST by Kozak (Anti Shahada: " There is no God named Allah, and Muhammed is his False Prophet")
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To: Doohickey
My personal best is 284 days in a 12-month period
that sounds like me my friend. The first year of my first marriage was 320 days at sea. One of the contributing factors to it breaking up, IMHO.
81 posted on 01/16/2007 6:30:19 AM PST by Bottom_Gun (Crush depth dummy - proud NRA member & Certified Instructor)
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To: rwa265
This was becoming a problem on my submarine when I was in 1980's. On a submarine you have to qualify to receive you dolphin pin. With that pin means you know the whole sub, its valves, emergency items, etc. I failed my first test but the second time I was the first to answer every question thrown at me. After that we change many of our chiefs. This group wouldn't fail anyone because it might hurt their feelings. I sat two boards that I wanted to fail the people but my vote was changed by the officer and the chief. It is no wonder that they don't understand what they are doing.
82 posted on 01/16/2007 6:38:24 AM PST by bmwcyle (Don't forget to send the bouquet of pork chops for Saddam's family)
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To: Bottom_Gun
One of the contributing factors to it breaking up, IMHO.

Mine too. The first one anyway. On the subject of lessons learned, I told my then girlfriend back in '90 that if she was still around after my sea tour was done that I'd marry her. She was, and I did. 15 years later and she still won't go away! :)

83 posted on 01/16/2007 6:58:15 AM PST by Doohickey (I am not unappeasable. YOU are just too easily appeased.)
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To: Doohickey
yep, 14 yrs on this one so far :). Back in the day, I had an A-gang chief who used to say you weren't a real Submariner, until you've had a least one break up because of your career choice *L*.
84 posted on 01/16/2007 7:31:17 AM PST by Bottom_Gun (Crush depth dummy - proud NRA member & Certified Instructor)
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To: rottndog

I only wish other Americans knew and respected the sacrifices of these men and their families.


85 posted on 01/16/2007 7:57:09 AM PST by justshutupandtakeit (If you believe ANYTHING in the Treason Media you are a fool.)
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To: Doohickey

OK, thanks. My boy is just getting started after three years of training. So I will get better information as to how things are going from him. He still has another three years to go on his enlistment.


86 posted on 01/16/2007 7:59:15 AM PST by justshutupandtakeit (If you believe ANYTHING in the Treason Media you are a fool.)
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To: justshutupandtakeit

It ain't called the Silent Service for nothin'...


87 posted on 01/16/2007 8:31:54 AM PST by rottndog (While reading this tag, remember Tens of Thousands of Americans are risking their lives for you.)
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To: Bottom_Gun
yep, 14 yrs on this one so far :). Back in the day, I had an A-gang chief who used to say you weren't a real Submariner, until you've had a least one break up because of your career choice *L*.

I had a friend who was on the PHENIOX that happened too. His later Navy days were spent as an IC instructor at the prototype mid 1980's. I've worked with a few bubble heads when I was on the ship too. Best guys to work with. One guy a MM in my shop went to subs around 1978 I've been trying to locate him for several years.

88 posted on 01/16/2007 10:11:29 AM PST by cva66snipe (If it was wrong for Clinton why do some support it for Bush? Party over nation destroys the nation.)
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To: tomcorn
Subs have blue and gold crews.

Again, the only subs that have 2 crews are the 14 Trident SSBN's.

NONE of the SSN's, the "Fast Attack" subs operate that way. They have a single crew, 100% of the time.

Deployment on a SSBN is in many ways preferred duty vs. an SSN. The entire schedule of a SSBN Trident is planned years in advance. Patrol schedules, crew changes, yard work, etc. is much easier to plan due to their schedules. At least with an SSBN you can plan about 50% of your time being in port.

SSN's on the other hand are on a much higher operating tempo due to surge deployments, special ops, etc. SSN's and their SINGLE crew are at sea far more than any other naval vessel - period.

SSN's may have an advantage in that it's possible they could make a port call during their deployment, (unlike SSBN's) but the port calls are mostly to replenish food supplies and pick-up spare parts. There are also limitations as to the ports they will visit.

SSBN Tridents will most often return to the home port they departed from - no stops in between (except load-outs, etc). Their mission is to be on patrol - undetected. They would not get involved with tossing cruise missiles as that would give their position away!

89 posted on 01/16/2007 1:54:44 PM PST by Jambe ( Save the Cows ! -- Eat a Vegan !!!)
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To: Jambe

Had friend who was an NPO on an SSN. He mentioned "periscope liberty" and what sought after prize it was it was. Then he toled me what it was.. Submariners are nuts.


90 posted on 01/16/2007 2:39:22 PM PST by tomcorn
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To: justshutupandtakeit

I came across this on the Navy news web site and thought you'd be interested.

http://www.news.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=27392


91 posted on 01/28/2007 9:48:59 AM PST by rwa265
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To: TheKidster

I'm sure the Navy was required to first inform Iran, N. Korea, you know, all of our allies.)


92 posted on 01/28/2007 9:54:00 AM PST by Minutemen ("It's a Religion of Peace")
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To: rwa265
This is not as unusual as one might think at first glance.

Back when I was in the Corps we lost 3 or 4 aircraft in 10 days, peacetime.

The Commandant ordered a stand down with empasis on safety and procedure.

This kind of thing serves at least 1 useful purpose. It shakes people awake and out of their rut.

Anyway, subs are hideously expensive and it pays for everyone to keep on their toes.

93 posted on 01/28/2007 9:57:36 AM PST by LibKill (ENOUGH! Take the warning labels off everything and let Saint Darwin do his job.)
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To: rwa265

Thanks very much for that link. My Gold son is going to miss the Super Bowl. As a Bears fan from his crib this is a great sacrifice. I can only hope to have a tape of a victory for him later. They got out late last Sunday so a bunch of them invaded a barracks where they found a tv to watch the NFC Championship.

God bless our sailors.


94 posted on 01/28/2007 3:30:29 PM PST by justshutupandtakeit (If you believe ANYTHING in the Treason Media you are a fool.)
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To: rwa265

The Navy for broadcasting apparent weakness in our submarine system to our country's enemies.


95 posted on 01/31/2007 1:01:25 PM PST by GoldenPup
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To: Doohickey

Broadcasting apparent weakness in the sub system is PR? PR to whom? Our enemies?


96 posted on 01/31/2007 1:04:07 PM PST by GoldenPup
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To: GoldenPup

Leaving port is an evolution known as the "Maneuvering Watch", not a ship system.

The PR is the Navy showing such a "deep commitment to safety of its officers and crew" by taking safety-related incidents so seriously. National security is not being compromised here.


97 posted on 01/31/2007 3:21:08 PM PST by Doohickey (I am not unappeasable. YOU are just too easily appeased.)
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To: GoldenPup; Doohickey

GoldenPup

I am relieved you are not suggesting I am jeopardizing our national security. My son is on a submarine and there is no way I would ever do anything that I think would put him or any other member of the silent service at risk.

The public knew about the incidents before the Navy released any information about them. Publicizing a standdown does not broadcast any weaknesses. Conversely, it lets our enemies know we are taking steps to strengthen our submarine operations.

If you knew how often my son says he can't tell me something you would realize the Navy is doing a good job of not revealing sensitive information.


98 posted on 01/31/2007 7:05:04 PM PST by rwa265
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To: rwa265

Thanks for letting me know, and thank your son for me for his service.


99 posted on 02/01/2007 5:26:28 AM PST by GoldenPup
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To: GoldenPup

I have a feeling "all subs" actually means some. There is no way we will call in all of our counter strike subs for any reason. I'm betting we will rotate them in for service or whatever, on sub at a time.


100 posted on 02/01/2007 5:29:57 AM PST by corlorde (New Hampshire)
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