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Human Remains In Ancient Jar A Mystery
Discovery.com ^ | 1-26-2007 | Jennifer Viegas

Posted on 01/26/2007 2:38:22 PM PST by blam

Human Remains in Ancient Jar a Mystery

Jennifer Viegas, Discovery News

Jan. 23, 2007 — For over 100 years, four blue-glazed jars bearing the nametag of Rameses II (1302-1213 B.C.) were believed to contain the Egyptian pharaoh's bodily organs. But analysis of organic residues scraped from the jars has determined one actually contained an aromatic salve, while a second jar held the organs of an entirely different person who lived around 760 years later.

Now the question is, who was this individual?

"We do believe that the unknown person was of importance for at least two reasons," said Jacques Connan, one of the study’s authors. "First, he or she had access to the famous jars and secondly, his or her organs were embalmed with pure Pistacia resin, which is uncommon according to our present chemical knowledge on balms of Egyptian mummies, especially during the Roman period."

The mystery concerning the jars began in 1905, when they were brought to Paris’ Louvre Museum, where they are still housed. Shortly after that time, researchers cut into a packet inside one of the jars and plucked out a piece of heart. The packet is now lost, but from that point on, the containers were labeled as "the canopic jars of Rameses II."

Connan, a professor in the bio-organic geochemistry laboratory at Louis Pasteur University in Strasbourg, and his colleagues questioned the description, especially as the heart of Rameses II was later found inside his mummy. The scientists recently radiocarbon dated residue from two of the four jars and used molecular biomarkers to identify the contents.

A paper on the findings has been accepted for publication in the Journal of Archaeological Science.

The aromatic salve was determined to contain animal fat — probably from a pig — which was mixed with coniferous oil, such as cedar, juniper or pine. This concoction dates close to the pharaoh’s lifetime. Connan and his team now think the jars originally held sacred cosmetics in the Temple of Rameses II.

"Unguent (perfumed salve) cones were worn on top of heads by women in banquets, but likely also during ceremonies to honor gods in temples," he told Discovery News, adding that the mixture may have also been applied to objects. Texts on the jars link them to the gods Amun-Ra and Mut, and not Osiris, the god of death.

The researchers believe the containers were then reused hundreds of years later as canopic jars — to hold the remains unknown individual — since one originally held the Pistacia embalming substance on linen and contained the now-missing organ packet.

Geneviève Pierrat-Bonnefois, curator in chief of the Louvre’s Department of Egyptian Antiquities, told Discovery News that she agrees with the findings "because they largely rectify our vision of the jars, which were for a long time suspected by the department conservators as not being (Rameses II) canopic jars."

Pierrat-Bonnefois said the Louvre has responded by changing the museum’s label for the objects, as well as writing a detailed, corrected history of them, now on the Louvre’s website, www.louvre.fr.

Connan said he hopes to analyze other museum objects and materials in the future, since many more could be mislabeled.

"Sometimes the scientific cross-checking was not carried out, or it was done a long time ago with inappropriate methods," he explained.

Paint, tar and other remains on sarcophagi and statues, as well as embalming materials for mummified animals, such as crocodiles, cats and ibis at the British Museum, interest the scientists and could form the basis of their upcoming projects.

Unless further information surfaces, the VIP who was once partially interred in the ancient Egyptian jars may never be identified.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 19thdynasty; 26thdynasty; ancient; ancientautopsies; catastrophism; egypt; godsgravesglyphs; jar; leftbehind; newkingdom; rameses; ramesses; ramses; ramsesii; valleyofthekings; velikovsky

1 posted on 01/26/2007 2:38:24 PM PST by blam
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To: SunkenCiv

GGG Ping.


2 posted on 01/26/2007 2:38:51 PM PST by blam
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To: blam

Hoffa


3 posted on 01/26/2007 2:40:04 PM PST by Patrick1
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To: blam
Human Remains In Ancient Jar A Mystery

Yes, why would a human remain in an ancient jar?

4 posted on 01/26/2007 2:42:15 PM PST by Charles Henrickson (You'd think he'd want to come out sometime.)
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To: blam

This sort of thing tended to happen to people who knew too much about Hillary even back then.


5 posted on 01/26/2007 2:44:40 PM PST by Billthedrill
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To: blam

Somehow I just knew "Coneheads" would be involved....
this IS Remulac we are talking about!


6 posted on 01/26/2007 2:45:24 PM PST by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: blam

Maybe it will turn out that those ancient Egyptians, reasonably forseeing the future, were just 'playing with your head' all along. :)


7 posted on 01/26/2007 2:47:10 PM PST by Continental Soldier
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To: Charles Henrickson

Yes, why would a human remain in an ancient jar?

Subsidized housing?

When is a jar not a jar?

Simple, when it's adored.

heheheh.


8 posted on 01/26/2007 2:47:52 PM PST by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: blam

Now the question is, who was this individual?

A wannabe.


9 posted on 01/26/2007 3:10:36 PM PST by BenLurkin
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To: blam

This is probably the ancient source of Prince Albert in a can jokes.


10 posted on 01/26/2007 3:15:47 PM PST by Ancesthntr
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To: blam
As long as it isn't one of these canopic jar -


11 posted on 01/26/2007 3:19:58 PM PST by SengirV
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To: BenLurkin

How'd the guy get in the jar in the first place?


12 posted on 01/26/2007 3:22:55 PM PST by Charles Henrickson (Must have been real small.)
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To: Charles Henrickson

Nobody rubbed his belly.


13 posted on 01/26/2007 3:27:08 PM PST by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, and writes again.)
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To: Charles Henrickson

Bought the jar, dumped it out, paid his/her embalmer to pack his/her remains into it.


14 posted on 01/26/2007 3:29:11 PM PST by BenLurkin
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To: blam
Recycled canopic jars ping.

You know, I really hate it when they take your jar, dump out your guts, and put women's lip gloss in the jar.

Remind me not to be buried in a jar. It's the only way to stop these beasts.
15 posted on 01/26/2007 3:35:23 PM PST by Cheburashka ( World's only Spatula City certified spatula repair and maintenance specialist!!!)
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To: blam

...and tonight's menu: Canned King aka Pickled Pharoah.


16 posted on 01/26/2007 3:35:35 PM PST by madison10 (The Democrat Party stands for open treason in a time of war)
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To: blam
I'm not surprised. IIRC, the mummy of Ramses II was found in a cache with many other royal mummies. The mummies seemed to have been moved in a hurry, probably as some emergency measure.

The priests who moved the jars may not even have known to whom the jars belonged. In any case, the pharoahs had all eternity to sort it out.

17 posted on 01/26/2007 4:48:08 PM PST by Physicist
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To: blam
Human debris in a modern jar-


18 posted on 01/26/2007 5:16:24 PM PST by mikrofon (President "I'm Mad-in-a-Jar")
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To: 75thOVI; Alice in Wonderland; AndrewC; Avoiding_Sulla; BenLurkin; Berosus; Brujo; CGVet58; Chani; ..
...while a second jar held the organs of an entirely different person who lived around 760 years later.
Tee-hee. :')

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19 posted on 01/26/2007 10:37:35 PM PST by SunkenCiv ("In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, they're not." -- John Rummel)
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To: blam; FairOpinion; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 24Karet; 3AngelaD; 49th; ...
Thanks Blam.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
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20 posted on 01/26/2007 10:41:23 PM PST by SunkenCiv ("In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, they're not." -- John Rummel)
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To: SunkenCiv

Where were the jars found in the first place? Ramses II was found among the 40 royal mummies in the Deir el-Bahri cache. If the jars weren't there as well, I'm going to have trouble believing that Ramses ever used them, even if they bear his name.

Also, did you notice the assertion that the guts in the jars probably came from somebody who lived 760 years after Ramses, but he was in the Greco-Roman era? That doesn't work in the conventional chronology, which puts the Persians 760 years after Ramses II, but it works with both the revised chronologies of Velikovsky and Rohl.


21 posted on 01/27/2007 5:09:29 AM PST by Berosus ("There is no beauty like Jerusalem, no wealth like Rome, no depravity like Arabia."--the Talmud)
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To: blam
Could it be Jeannie's sister?


22 posted on 01/27/2007 5:15:29 AM PST by Fierce Allegiance ("Campers laugh at clowns behind closed doors." GOHUNTER08!)
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To: Berosus

Hence the ping. :')


23 posted on 01/27/2007 5:56:40 AM PST by SunkenCiv ("In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, they're not." -- John Rummel)
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KV 7 (Rameses II)
Theban Mapping Project
The tomb was open in antiquity, but it been almost completely filled with flood debris since then. According to the "Strike Papyrus" in the Turin Museum, two tomb robbers tried to enter KV 7 during the regnal year 29 of Rameses III in Dynasty 20. In Dynasty 21, Rameses II's mummy was moved first to KV 17, then to the cache in the tomb of Queen Inhapy at Dayr al Bahri, TT 320, where it was found in 1881.

24 posted on 01/27/2007 6:08:44 AM PST by SunkenCiv ("In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, they're not." -- John Rummel)
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To: tet68
this IS Remulac

Don't you know they are from Fraaaaance? :-)

25 posted on 01/27/2007 6:09:54 AM PST by PistolPaknMama (Al-Queda can recruit on college campuses but the US military can't! --FReeper airborne)
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Valley of the Kings - KV7
Dariusz Sitek
http://www.narmer.pl/kv/kv07en.htm

The Tomb of Ramesses II and Remains of His Funerary Treasure
Christian LeBlanc
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Gerard_Flament/ramstomb.htm


26 posted on 01/27/2007 6:19:13 AM PST by SunkenCiv ("In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, they're not." -- John Rummel)
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To: blam

Some twit with security access probably switched jars, taking the real-deal jar for use in some hocus pocus. Happens all the time.


27 posted on 01/27/2007 6:22:22 AM PST by Graymatter
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To: blam

"The aromatic salve was determined to contain animal fat — probably from a pig — which was mixed with coniferous oil, such as cedar, juniper or pine."


- "Yuummmmmmm, pig fat" - Homer Simpson


28 posted on 01/27/2007 6:44:02 AM PST by finnigan2
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To: blam

Unguent (perfumed salve) cones were worn on top of heads by women in banquets...

I'm so glad that this particular style has been consigned to the canopic jar of history, and has not come back into fashion.

29 posted on 01/27/2007 7:19:27 AM PST by SuzyQue (Remember to think.)
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To: SuzyQue
Unguent (perfumed salve) cones were worn on top of heads by women in banquets...

I'm so glad that this particular style has been consigned to the canopic jar of history, and has not come back into fashion.

They could have used them during the Middle Ages, though. Ewwww... (BTW, is that "banquets" or "bouquets?"

30 posted on 01/27/2007 8:46:54 AM PST by madison10
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To: blam
Connan, a professor in the bio-organic geochemistry laboratory at Louis Pasteur University in Strasbourg,

The Barbarian?


31 posted on 01/27/2007 7:23:11 PM PST by AndrewC (Duckpond, LLD, JSD (all honorary))
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32 posted on 03/14/2008 11:56:44 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/______________________Profile updated Saturday, March 1, 2008)
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To: Charles Henrickson
The same reason they'd want to stay in the bathroom?
33 posted on 03/15/2008 12:12:39 AM PDT by uglybiker (I do not suffer from mental illness. I quite enjoy it, actually.)
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34 posted on 06/07/2011 7:20:04 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Thanks Cincinna for this link -- http://www.friendsofitamar.org)
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X

206. Ramses II (of the Nineteenth Dynasty) and Pharaoh-Necho (of the Twenty-sixth Dynasty) of the Scriptures or Necos of Herodotus are one and the same person.

207. The theories that make Ramses II the Pharaoh of Oppression or the Exodus are wrong.

208. For nineteen years Ramses II was in a state of war with Nebu-khadnezar.

209. The defeat of Josiah is portrayed in a mural fragment, now in the Metropolitan Museum of Art.

210. The tribute imposed upon Judea and the imprisonment of Jehoahaz are referred to on an obelisk of Tanis.

211. The first march of Necho-Ramses II toward the Euphrates is related on the obelisk of Tanis and on the rock inscription of Nahr el Kalb near Beirut, written in his second year. The rock inscriptions of Ramses II are not as old as that of Essarhadon on the same rock.

212. The second campaign which Ramses II led toward the Euphrates is narrated in his annals and in the Pentaur-poem and has a parallel record in Jeremiah 46.

213. The Shardana mercenaries were the people of Sardis (Lydians), and not of Sardinia.

214. The city Kadesh the Old of the battle was Carchemish.

215. The remnants of the fortifications and the double moats of Kadesh-Carchemish pictured by Ramses II are recognizable in situ.

216. Hieropolis the Old was situated on the site of Carchemish.

217. The river ‘N-r-t or ‘R-n-t was the Egyptian name of the Euphrates.

218. Bab and Aranime mentioned by Ramses II in the course of the battle are Bab and Arime on the road from Aleppo to Carchemish.

219. At the beginning of the battle, Ramses II, with the division of Amon, was northwest of Carchemish; the division of Re was between Sadjur and Carchemish; the division of Ptah and Sutekh were south of Bab. The army of Re was driven northward away from its base, and, together with the division of Amon, was thrown into the Euphrates.

220. After the defeat at Carchemish, Ramses II lost dominion over Syria and Palestine for three years, until the eighth year of Jehoiakim.

221. A fragment of a clay tablet, dealing with the battle of Carchemish, is preserved in the archive of Boghazkoi.

222. Nebukhadnezar returned from the pursuit of Ramses II because he was accused before Nergilissar of intending to usurp the imperial crown.

223. The person of his accuser, Arma, a very aged relative, whom he ultimately put to death, is intimated in the rabbinical literature and in the Fathers of the Church as that of Hiram, King of Tyre, old relative and accuser of Nebukhadnezar.

224. Nergilissar exacted an oath from Nebukhadnezar that he would be faithful to his son and heir, Labash-Marduk (Lamash or Labu in the Boghazkoi texts). After Nergilissar’s death. Nebukhadnezar crowned his nephew, but nine months later, he arrested him. A letter of Nebukhadnezar (Hattusilis) to his minor nephew, containing a denunciation, is preserved.

225. The repairs of the palace and the temple of Ezagila in Babylon made by Nergilissar antedate those made by Nebukhadnezar.

226. The queen of Nebukhadnezar was a daughter of a priest of Ishtar. She was not an Egyptian or Median princess, as related by early authors.

227. Nebukhadnezar became King of Babylon five years after Ramses II became King of Egypt.

228. In his ninth year Ramses II occupied Askalon and the Philistine shore. Marching through the valley of Jezreel, his troops reached Beth Shan.

229. In the twelfth year of Ramses II, Palestine was again subdued by Nebukhadnezar.

230. During the interval between two sieges of Jerusalem in the days of Zedekiah, a treaty was concluded between Ramses II and Nebukhadnezar; its text is extant.

231. Jewish fugitives in Egypt were extradited in accordance with the treaty.

232. The “Fossae Temple” of Lachish was built in the days of Solomon and rebuilt in the days of Jehoshaphat and Amenhotep III; the city was captured by Sennaherib, and destroyed by Nebukhadnezar. The “Fossae Temple”, burnt in the days of Ramses II, and the city-walls, burnt in the days of Nebukhadnezar, are remains of one and the same fire.

233. Nebukhadnezar did not invade Egypt. The only historical inscription which is ascribed to Nebukhadnezar and which deals with a march toward Egypt, has a counterpart in the Marriage Stela of Ramses II.

234. Ramses II married a daughter of Nebukhadnezar. The bas-relief of Abu-Simbel portrays the visit of Nebukhadnezar bringing his daughter to Ramses II.

235. “Bit-Niku” outside the wall of Babylon was the palace built for Ramses II who used to visit there.

236. Nebukhadnezar’s daughter had a palace at Daphneh-Tahpanhes.

237. Red baked bricks of the Ramses period in Tahpanhes were an innovation introduced from the Babylon of Nebukhadnezar.

238. The Bentresh Stela deals with the mental disease of the elder daughter of Nebukhadnezar, and was written by the priests of Khons a few decades thereafter. This daughter was married to a prince of Damascus.

239. The paranoiac character of Nebukhadnezar is fully reflected by his autobiography and other texts of Boghazkoi, notably dealing with exorcisms. The biblical record about his suffering from nightmares and about his mental disease is substantiated.

240. The tomb of Ahiram found at Bybios dates not from the thirteenth century, but from about 600 B.C.E. The Cyprian pottery of the end of the seventh century and the vases of Ramses II found in this grave are contemporaneous.

241. Itobaal, son of Ahiram, the builder of the tomb, was probably the defender of Tyre against Nebukhadnezar, as mentioned by Josephus.

242. The inscriptions of Ahiram’s tomb are of the same age as the ostraca of Lachish. The development of the Hebrew letters went through a normal process without falling into archaisms.

243. The dispute as to whether Ramses II or Necho built the canal connecting the Mediterranean with the Red Sea, deals with a spurious problem.

244. Greek armor found in Daphneh (Daphnoi), as well as iron tools and ingots, are coeval with the temple of Ramses II there, and are products of the Greek mercenaries in the service of the pharaohs of the Nineteenth (Twenty-sixth) Dynasty.

245. Tiles of buildings erected by Ramses II (in Kantir) which have Greek letters on the back, are products of Greek laborers in the service of the pharaoh. The letters are genuine Greek letters of the sixth century.

The Sequence of Dynasties -- The so-called Nineteenth Dynasty will be found to have been displaced not only by the five hundred and forty years of error in the dating of the Eighteenth Dynasty, but also by an additional one hundred and seventy years—the duration of the Libyan and Ethiopian dominations over Egypt: and the total error will be found reaching the huge figure of seven hundred years.


35 posted on 02/16/2014 4:22:17 PM PST by SunkenCiv (http://www.freerepublic.com/~mestamachine/)
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