Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

The Bear Growls
military.com ^ | January 29, 2007 | Peter Brookes

Posted on 01/29/2007 7:10:22 PM PST by Tailgunner Joe

The Russians are going ballistic over the possibility the United States will deploy a missile-defense system in Central Europe in the coming years.

The United States insists the defense shield is to guard us - and our friends and allies - against the growing North Korean and Iranian threats. But Russia denounces these systems as "destabilizing."

Washington wants to put an X-band radar in the Czech Republic and 10 interceptor missile launchers in Poland; these would add to existing U.S. missile-defense sites in California and Alaska.

Last week, Washington moved to open negotiations with Warsaw and Prague; the Czechs agreed, while the Poles are still mulling the offer.

But Russian Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov scoffed at the idea. His thinking: Neither North Korean nor Iranian missiles can reach Europe right now, so "against whom is this missile-defense system being made?"

Ivanov's views count. He's often touted as a possible - even a likely - successor to Russian President Vladimir Putin, who is scheduled to step down next year.

Parroting Ivanov, a number of senior Russian defense officials recently said Moscow viewed the missile-defense deployment as a threat to its security. The Kremlin hasn't specified a response.

The Russians are especially peeved about Poland's possible participation. A Russian Foreign Ministry spokesman said a Polish base would undermine "strategic stability, regional security and relations between Russia and Poland." (Moscow warned Prague, too.)

Yet a State Department spokesman stated the obvious: "It's not aimed at Russia . . . It's aimed at those irresponsible states that may possess technologies that could threaten our friends and allies, that could threaten the United States." We've even offered Moscow consultations on the issue.

Heck, these are defensive systems, not offensive ones. Neither country even borders Russia proper. Besides, the Czechs and Poles are now our NATO partners - no longer (involuntary) allies of Russia's old Warsaw Pact.

Which starts to get at the real issue. Russia accepted the idea of NATO expansion into Eastern Europe and the Baltics - but never liked it. Moscow has been incredibly sensitive to its loss of control over countries in its traditional sphere of influence - its so-called near abroad.

And the Russian military, long a source of pride, has weakened from neglect. Deploying "Son of Star Wars" to their neighborhood - something the Russians simply can't match - makes that creeping inferiority all the more obvious.

It also gives the Kremlin the willies. Russia sees missile defense in Europe as aimed at crumbling the last vestige of its military might: land- and sea-based intercontinental ballistic missiles. (The successful U.S. missile-defense test Saturday over the Pacific won't help.)

But the Russian "shoe-banging" about missile defense in Europe remains shockingly hypocritical - when you consider all the "destabilizing" activity Moscow has willfully engaged in at the expense of America's security.

How about Russia's delivery of $1 billion in super-advanced Tor-M1 air-defense missiles to Iran, encouraging Tehran's belligerence - and bolstering its confidence - as the world seeks to rein in its nuclear program?

Did Moscow really believe building Iran's first nuclear reactor at Bushehr (starting in the 1990s) - would stabilize the Middle East? And what of its $1 billion in arms contracts with Syria?

How about the irascible North Koreans? Pyongyang's ballistic missile and nuclear weapons programs got their start from - you guessed it - the Kremlin.

The Russians carp about the Poles and the Czechs but seem conveniently to forget about Venezuela in our neighborhood. Moscow inked $3 billion in arms deals with Castro-wannabe Hugo Chavez for advanced fighters, helicopters and other weapons.

And China? Someday, China - using advanced Russian weapons - might cross swords with the United States over Taiwan's future. Moscow sells billions in arms to Beijing, and recently agreed to cooperate with the Chinese space program.

The point here is that Moscow wants it both ways. Russia is now the world's biggest arms merchant to the developing world. In some cases, these sales seriously undermine American interests and security - and threaten U.S. forces.

Yet Russia wants us to forgo deploying a defensive missile system that will protect us and our allies from two countries - Iran and North Korea - Russia had a hand in arming?

That's downright outrageous.

The United States and Russia can both benefit from a cooperative relationship. Neither capital wants a deeper freeze in already chilly ties. But Moscow must understand its actions aren't without perceived - or real - consequences for Russian security, too.


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: coldwar2; iran; missiledefense; putin; russia; sovietunion

1 posted on 01/29/2007 7:10:23 PM PST by Tailgunner Joe
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Tailgunner Joe

Thought this was a Super bowl thread … (my bad) … Go Bears.


2 posted on 01/29/2007 7:12:40 PM PST by doc1019
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tailgunner Joe

The USSR never wants to die...


3 posted on 01/29/2007 7:13:37 PM PST by Thunder90
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tailgunner Joe

Who gives monkey balls about what Russia thinks of us.


4 posted on 01/29/2007 7:13:55 PM PST by Ode To Ted Kennedys Liver (Senate Republicans' Motto: Quit while you're ahead.|| Democrats' Motto: Going nowhere fast!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tailgunner Joe
Russia is now the world's biggest arms merchant to the developing world. In some cases, these sales seriously undermine American interests and security - and threaten U.S. forces.

And they haven't learned from Chechnya that you can't appease militant Muslims.

5 posted on 01/29/2007 7:15:03 PM PST by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tailgunner Joe

A missile shield is a defensive effort. Any country that opposes our efforts to defend ourselves and our allies is a country that we really NEED to defend ourselves against. Full speed ahead!


6 posted on 01/29/2007 7:16:28 PM PST by ClearCase_guy (Enoch Powell was right.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ClearCase_guy

You are exactly right.


7 posted on 01/29/2007 7:17:33 PM PST by unkus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: lizol; Lukasz; strategofr; GSlob; spanalot; Thunder90; Tailgunner Joe; propertius; REactor; ...
Russia/Soviet/Coldwar2 PING!!!

To be added or removed from this list, please FReepmail me!!!

8 posted on 01/29/2007 7:19:36 PM PST by Thunder90
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tailgunner Joe
The Bear growls?

Sounds like the Bear is whining.

9 posted on 01/29/2007 7:21:49 PM PST by libs_kma (Monica blew while Al-Queda grew.....Oh well, Clinton happens!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ClearCase_guy

Bingo.


10 posted on 01/29/2007 7:24:34 PM PST by figgers3036
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: doc1019
Thought this was a Super bowl thread … (my bad) … Go Bears.

Yeah, me, too. Don't matter, though. Colts are taking them down anyways.

11 posted on 01/29/2007 7:27:38 PM PST by Tanniker Smith (I didn't know she was a liberal when I married her.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Tailgunner Joe

We should have put the bear down in 92.


12 posted on 01/29/2007 7:28:30 PM PST by rmlew (Having slit their throats may the conservatives who voted for Casey choke slowly on their blood.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: libs_kma

The “Bear” lost it’s testicles under the Reagan administration and has been trying to grow them back to this day.


13 posted on 01/29/2007 7:29:57 PM PST by doc1019
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Tailgunner Joe

We need to Announce a Whole New Generation In Exotic
SPACE BASED On Time Nuke Delivery Systems and Space Based
Proton Laser Cannons which can evaporate accurately
small to large offensive sections of the planet!


14 posted on 01/29/2007 7:32:49 PM PST by claptrap (We've found a Witch can we burn her?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tailgunner Joe
Washington wants to put an X-band radar in the Czech Republic and 10 interceptor missile launchers in Poland; these would add to existing U.S. missile-defense sites in California and Alaska.

...

But Russian Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov scoffed at the idea. His thinking: Neither North Korean nor Iranian missiles can reach Europe right now, so "against whom is this missile-defense system being made?"

It's simple - by the time we need them, it'll be too late to think about deploying them. When it comes to defense, you want to be out in front of the threat - ready to counter it before it develops. North Korea, Iran, and others continue to develop missile and warhead technology.

Also, who is he kidding? 10 interceptors against Russia's thousands of short, medium, intermediate, and intercontinental range missiles? In an all out attack, Russia would lose more missiles to poor quality control and maintenance than they would to a battery of 10 interceptors... He's blowing smoke and posturing. 10 interceptors are no strategic deterrent against Russia, heck, even 100 wouldn't be.

15 posted on 01/29/2007 7:33:40 PM PST by CodeMasterPhilzar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tailgunner Joe
Just to get this straight, we are deploying the defensive missile shield that Reagan started and the liberals said (hoped) would never work? Is this part of the program they derisively called "Star Wars" as if to make it sound like a fantasy? I think this is also the program that the liberals scoffed at when Pres. Bush said we'd keep funding it.

Last I heard, it's working quite well, although it may take a couple shots to hit an incoming missile.

16 posted on 01/29/2007 7:34:57 PM PST by adam_smith_76
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tanniker Smith

Bear me out … ain’t gona happen!

As a die hard Bears fan … I wish them luck.

As a football fan … gona’ be one heck of a game.

Best of luck to both teams … will be a great game regardless who wins.


17 posted on 01/29/2007 7:36:12 PM PST by doc1019
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Tailgunner Joe
How would the US feel if Russia put a missile defense site in Canada?

But then, they seem to be awful quick to arm our adversaries.
18 posted on 01/29/2007 7:41:24 PM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: doc1019

Amazing that we can have a discussion about two different things (football, nuclear holocaust) and still keep them separate.


19 posted on 01/29/2007 7:41:47 PM PST by doc1019
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: redgolum

Cuba comes to mind.


20 posted on 01/29/2007 7:42:51 PM PST by doc1019
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: doc1019
Bit of a different time, but a good example.

We are not, quite, at a hair trigger with Russia (though we may be heading there over Kosovo),
21 posted on 01/29/2007 7:45:18 PM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: redgolum
How would the US feel if Russia put a missile defense site in Canada?

Bully for them.

A dozen or two interceptors are no threat to the huge arsenals of the United States and Russia. However, if you're a North Korea or Iran, and you're struggling to build even a handful of intermediate or intercontinental range missiles... (hey, this is "rocket science") Then those relatively few interceptors effectively negate your arsenal.

22 posted on 01/29/2007 7:50:09 PM PST by CodeMasterPhilzar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: redgolum
How would the US feel if Russia put a missile defense site in Canada?

If NoKorea was threatening to nuke Russia by flying missiles over the North Pole to Moscow, and offered to consult with us along the way about what they were doing, maybe not so bad.

Of course there are no real parallels between the US and the smoldering remnants of the USSR.

23 posted on 01/29/2007 7:58:41 PM PST by hinckley buzzard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: hinckley buzzard
Should read: If NoKorea was threatening...and Russia offered to consult with us along the way...

Man. getting sloppy in my old age.

24 posted on 01/29/2007 8:00:57 PM PST by hinckley buzzard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Tailgunner Joe

Let me ask a stupid question. Why are we still defending the people of Europe? Most of them hate our guts.


25 posted on 01/29/2007 8:00:57 PM PST by kempo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: redgolum

Considering the financial, political and generally devastated condition of Russia today (basically run by the Russian mob), why are we overly concerned with them?

Even if we were in a “hair trigger” situation with Russia … what do they have to offer in the exchange. No Navy, Army or Air Force. Little to threat us with except threats.

Could induce NK to fire missiles at us … might make it 25 miles.

China, not ready to challenge the US (today).

The powers in the world also have to remember all the Nuke subs. we have all over the world … got to be uppermost in their minds.


26 posted on 01/29/2007 8:04:19 PM PST by doc1019
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: kempo

They go … we go!


27 posted on 01/29/2007 8:08:26 PM PST by doc1019
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Tailgunner Joe
Why are we putting a missile shield around Europe again? Euros treat us like crap, they probably don't want the damned missiles, in fact, I'm sure there will be massive protests against them. It's bound to cost a fortune and the Euros won't pay for any of it.

Why not just let the French handle it?

28 posted on 01/29/2007 8:13:47 PM PST by Grim
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Grim

Rings of defense strategy. Basic defense 101. Set the first defense of our country in someone else’s country.

You would expect the French to help protect the world. LOL!


29 posted on 01/29/2007 8:20:50 PM PST by doc1019
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: redgolum

Russia isn't allied to Canada. The US did not side with Nazi Germany to occupy Canada.


30 posted on 01/29/2007 8:30:14 PM PST by rmlew (Having slit their throats may the conservatives who voted for Casey choke slowly on their blood.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Tailgunner Joe

lets put ICBMS in poland too, after all Russia is selling missiles to Iran a known axis state.


31 posted on 01/29/2007 8:43:40 PM PST by omega4179 (Communism: Its back and arming Iran.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tailgunner Joe

FTB


32 posted on 01/29/2007 9:42:33 PM PST by GSlob
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: hinckley buzzard
Of course there are no real parallels between the US and the smoldering remnants of the USSR.


Give our fearless democrats a little bit of time and the US will be a smoldering remnant of what we used to be. The dems want the terrorists to win, the communists to take over and become a third world country like Mexico.
33 posted on 01/29/2007 9:50:07 PM PST by antiunion person (Long live GWB. Hale to the King.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: doc1019

Yep. Go Bears.


34 posted on 01/29/2007 10:17:34 PM PST by Nachum
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Thunder90; Founding Father; FARS; milford421

Thank you for the ping.


35 posted on 01/30/2007 12:35:45 AM PST by nw_arizona_granny (Pray for peace, but prepare for the worst disaster. Protect your loved ones.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Thunder90
Col Putin longs for the 'good old days'.


36 posted on 01/30/2007 2:00:17 AM PST by M. Espinola (Freedom is never free)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: antiunion person

I thought this over in MAY of 1999...and wrote THIS:

“The Giant sleeps on a full belly from a festive day at the fair and dreams of peaceful, sunny days. In the distance a caparisoned Bear jags to a jaunty jig, tinkling the bells of its shabby circus garb, reduced to dancing for the amusement of the town folk it once terrorized. Unaccustomed to its cage and civilized surroundings the bear strains at its muzzle and growls at its captors, longing for the wild and the only life it has known, killing when it is hungry and fearing no creature in the forest. The Bear’s lowing resembles distant thunder and the Giant fitfully becomes aware that there is some dark and foreboding thing impinging on its dreamscape from without. The Bear was captured by the Giant and contemplates how it might devour it, if only it could attack before it awakens. Sleepily the Giant responds to its atavistic instincts of survival, somehow subconsciously aware that danger is nearby. The Giant never considered the Bear’s escape.”

Wake up, America.


37 posted on 01/30/2007 3:55:38 AM PST by JB in Whitefish
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Tailgunner Joe

Screw russia. The are paranoid hypocritical lunatics. The have an anti-western alliance with China and Iran,and can not be trusted as long as they oppose the democratic civilized world.


38 posted on 01/30/2007 4:48:14 AM PST by MARKUSPRIME
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: redgolum

Seeing as canada was never part of the US(or taken over like the soviets did eastern europe), and is a democracy and NATO/Norad member it would never happen. They dont trust the russians either.


39 posted on 01/30/2007 4:51:01 AM PST by MARKUSPRIME
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Tailgunner Joe

"Washington wants to put an X-band radar in the Czech Republic and 10 interceptor missile launchers in Poland"

Lets call it the Patton System.


40 posted on 01/30/2007 9:05:34 AM PST by spanalot
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kempo

Not central and eastern Europe. Over there, America and Americans are loved and a visit by President Bush will bring people out by the thousands for the opportunity to hear him speak.

I remember when he visited in Romania. My uncle was working there and I was watching Fox News on the reports of Bush speaking there. It was pouring rain. And the Romanian people stood hours in the rain to hear the leader of the free world speak.

There's a strong connection and recognition that comes among people who love and value freedom. This link is very strong.

Now Western Europe, spoiled and decadent is an entirely different matter.


41 posted on 02/01/2007 9:46:55 PM PST by romanesq
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: redgolum
How would the US feel if Russia put a missile defense site in Canada?

Who would they plausibly be defending themselves from? Cmon, Russia screaming about a purely DEFENSIVE move is absurd - and out of line. It's none of their business what national security arrangements we have with other countries. Russia's simply angry the Czech is out of it's control.
42 posted on 02/03/2007 5:35:00 PM PST by brain bleeds red
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson