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Iraqi official: U.S. chopper downed by missile: 5th helicopter crash in 2 weeks
MSNBC.COM ^ | 2/7/2007 | AP

Posted on 02/07/2007 8:24:14 AM PST by Smogger

CAIRO, Egypt - The U.S. military said Wednesday a CH-46 Sea Knight helicopter went down about 20 miles northwest of Baghdad, while an Iraqi air force officer said it was downed by an anti-aircraft missile.

Al-Qaida-linked Sunni insurgents claimed responsibility for the alleged attack.

The claim was issued in an Internet statement signed by the Islamic State in Iraq, an umbrella group of several Sunni insurgent groups, including al-Qaida in Iraq. The authenticity of the statement -- posted on a Web forum where the group often issues statements -- could not be independently confirmed.

(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.msn.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: boeingbodybag; heiljveritas; iraq; wot
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1 posted on 02/07/2007 8:24:17 AM PST by Smogger
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To: All

My question is where are they getting these suddenly very effective surface to air missiles, and how best should we punish the Iranians?


2 posted on 02/07/2007 8:25:42 AM PST by Smogger (It's the WOT Stupid)
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To: Smogger
do we know yet what type of missile or rocket is being used to do hit the helicopters?
3 posted on 02/07/2007 8:27:36 AM PST by APRPEH (id theft info available on my profile page)
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To: Smogger
Seems Iran may be doing the same thing we did to the Soviets in Afghanistan. It is well past time to start doing something about Iranian meddling.

Sometimes it seems as if freerepublic is the only place where people "get it."
4 posted on 02/07/2007 8:27:49 AM PST by Albert Barr
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To: Smogger

We need to start bombing Iran's border defenses NOW!


5 posted on 02/07/2007 8:28:08 AM PST by Mad_Tom_Rackham (I don't have any reason to be cynical, but...)
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To: Smogger; Admin Moderator

I think we should not put every "helicopter crash" in breaking news section. It is a war and losses occur but we should not dwell on losses. Why isn't the Start of Operation to control Baghdad is in breaking news section? Is the breaking news section only reserved to bad news?


6 posted on 02/07/2007 8:29:28 AM PST by jveritas (Support The Commander in Chief in Times of War)
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To: Smogger

We will eliminate the threats by eliminating the jihadis there. Then on to Iran and Syria.


7 posted on 02/07/2007 8:30:29 AM PST by pissant
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To: Smogger

"how best should we punish the Iranians?"

Easy: sink their Navy, dstroy their air force (if they have one), destroy all their armor, obliterate all their air defenses, MOAB all their nuclear plants, and execute all their agents inside Iraq.


8 posted on 02/07/2007 8:33:07 AM PST by cll (Carthage must be destroyed)
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To: Smogger

Most likely through Iran and Syria with Russian help. They are probably thinking about how much damage the Stingers caused the Russians back in the 80s in Afghanistan and feel they could do the same to us in Iraq with a similar missile.


9 posted on 02/07/2007 8:33:22 AM PST by Wiggins
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To: Smogger
I can't for the life of me understand why we have not done more to punish Iran for its involvement in this war. What are we afraid of?

I know we can't launch an all-out war against them but gosh it seems like there would be measures we could take to mess with them and their ability to interject themselves into our efforts in Iraq.

Until we extract a price from them, and one they feel the pain of paying, they are going to go on doing whatever they can to mess with us.

To date they've paid absolutely no price for their three decades of poking us in the eye.

As far as they're concerned they can just go on doing whatever they want and think that we are somehow powerless to respond. No wonder they think of us a paper tigers.
10 posted on 02/07/2007 8:34:20 AM PST by jwparkerjr
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To: jveritas
The headline is not "Helicopter crashes" it is "Helicopter downed by missile" and that is indeed breaking news.

It is hard evidence that Iran is involved.

11 posted on 02/07/2007 8:35:33 AM PST by wideawake
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To: jveritas

I am far from a pessimist about this war. My brother is in the Marines and may be deployed to Iraq any minute, and terrorist suddenly start having the ablity to shoot down helicopters left and right I think that is cause for some concern.


12 posted on 02/07/2007 8:36:37 AM PST by Smogger (It's the WOT Stupid)
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To: Smogger

We shouldn't have helped those afgans against the russians... It would have been much better to have all these "mujahedin" potheads to be tied up fighting the russians than for us to have to deal with them. The russians would still be in Afganistan if we didn't help the freegin mooslum scum.


13 posted on 02/07/2007 8:36:49 AM PST by greenthumbedislndr
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To: cll

I nominate you for sec. of defense. If I were in charge, you would have just made top general. I like the way you think.


14 posted on 02/07/2007 8:37:13 AM PST by RolandBurnam (para mi tagline in ess spanyol markay dose)
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To: greenthumbedislndr
...We shouldn't have helped those afgans against the russians... It would have been much better to have all these "mujahedin" potheads to be tied up fighting the russians than for us to have to deal with them. The russians would still be in Afganistan if we didn't help the freegin mooslum scum....

Different times. We were at war with the Russians then.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

15 posted on 02/07/2007 8:39:46 AM PST by FReepaholic (If daydreaming were an Olympic sport I'd be a gold medalist.)
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To: jveritas

This story could have a potentially larger impact as more information is learned and since the article states "fewer than 10 people were on board." That could mean up to 8 or 9 causalities.


16 posted on 02/07/2007 8:39:54 AM PST by jdm
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To: Mad_Tom_Rackham

I say we ought to mine the Iraq/Iran border so thickly a cat couldn't cross without becoming violin string material.


17 posted on 02/07/2007 8:40:55 AM PST by azhenfud (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: jdm

MSNBC claims that 7 casualites have been confirmed. Notice I didn't make that the headline, but it will certainly be the lead on the news tonight.


18 posted on 02/07/2007 8:42:09 AM PST by Smogger (It's the WOT Stupid)
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To: jwparkerjr
It's not that we are afraid. This is not a united country. Especially on the war issue. We could launch an all out war with them and win if we wanted too. The trouble here is politics. Leftists and liberals who want to destroy our great nation. Nothing will happen to Iran or Syria unless the people here have it within them to fight. Right now not enough of them do.
19 posted on 02/07/2007 8:42:55 AM PST by Wiggins
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To: jdm

I am not saying that we should not be concerned about the losses of our heroes. However we are doing what the liberal media wants us to do "Focus on the bad news".


20 posted on 02/07/2007 8:44:35 AM PST by jveritas (Support The Commander in Chief in Times of War)
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To: Albert Barr

Aren't Iranians Shia? It was Sunnis who took credit for the attack.


21 posted on 02/07/2007 8:45:58 AM PST by BinaryBoy
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To: FReepaholic
Different times. We were at war with the Russians then.

Yes, Oceana is our friend now. Any thought that it was ever different should be tossed down the memory hole.

22 posted on 02/07/2007 8:46:27 AM PST by Austin Willard Wright
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To: BinaryBoy

I'm sure MSNBC will take the terrorist word for it.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17021136/

"Official says chopper not hit by hostile fire, but Iraqi insurgents claim attack"

Prayers for the troops and families.


23 posted on 02/07/2007 8:48:18 AM PST by tobyhill (The War on Terrorism is not for the weak.)
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To: jwparkerjr

We are by no means a paper tiger or powerless

However, there are three main reasons why military action will not be taken against the Islamic Republic of Iran:

1) It will implode on its own in the near future. Military action will only unite them again. Better yet to let the middle class and students do it themselves.
2) We do not need a confrontation with the Ruskies now. The bear is now warming his frozen paws in the Persian Gulf.
3) Oil and Petrodollars.

This being said, the Israeli/US air option is on the table. This will, I fear, set us back with #1 above


24 posted on 02/07/2007 8:52:32 AM PST by Seajay (Ordem e Progresso)
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To: greenthumbedislndr
As far as I can see Afghan was pay back for Russian doing the same to us in Korea and Vietnam. They just got some payback, but not enough in my opinion.
25 posted on 02/07/2007 8:54:40 AM PST by Americanexpat (A strong democracy through citizen oversight.)
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To: Smogger
We know exactly where they are getting the missiles.

We knew and watch the transfer and sale of the missiles.

At the time we just 'warned' that the sale of them "better not show up in Iraq", because we knew they would be much more effective than what was currently in theater.

Hint... the nation also has no problem overtly selling nuclear technology to rogue nations.
26 posted on 02/07/2007 8:54:44 AM PST by FreedomNeocon (Success is not final; Failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts -- Churchill)
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To: RolandBurnam

"I like the way you think"

Or as Ann Coulter would say: "Invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity"


27 posted on 02/07/2007 9:19:28 AM PST by cll (Carthage must be destroyed)
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To: Smogger

I am here presently in Iraq, I am not far from the iranian border, our troops are doing some things to interdict the movement of bad guys on and near the border. Also one of the helos that was shot down, was by an old type of anti-air heavy maching gun, an antique of a weapon! Many of the helos fly low to the ground, big problem! The media is always going to be liberial, so get used to it there negative perspective on the news here in iraq. I will say this, our troops are doing there job, but I believe the rules of engagement need to be changed, in order for the troops to be able to have more aggressive tactics here, I am talking about the army troops.


28 posted on 02/07/2007 9:20:20 AM PST by ibtheman
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To: jveritas

I think you're right, but 5 copters?

I thought this would have been the second or third.


29 posted on 02/07/2007 9:29:14 AM PST by baubau (Indefatigable Rudy!)
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To: BinaryBoy
I am no expert but from what I know Iran is mostly Shia with some Sunni areas. However, they are Persian Shia while southern Iraqis are Arab Shia.

There have been some posts here on FR about Iran and Al-Queerda playing both sides of the coin to stir up the sectarian violence. I would not put it past them to arm both sides both to further that end and also to make life miserable for the USA.

The goal, as I see it, on the Iranian side is to destabilize Iraq, or have Iraq be viewed as unstable to draw support to the surrender monkeys in the USA.

Somehow we need to follow the trail of how the terrorists are getting weapons and support. They seem to have an unlimited supply of weapons. I read reports of weapons caches being destroyed everyday, yet the enemy always seems to get more weapons, and the weapons seem to get more sophisticated as the war goes on.

Are these weapons coming from Iran or Syria? The US government seems reluctant to supply this information. Could it be we are fighting another proxy war against Russia and the weapons are just passing through Iran or Syria? Would that be enough to make us back down on Iran? I don't know, I do know that when we have fought proxie wars in the past we have always been reluctant to go after the big guys.
30 posted on 02/07/2007 9:30:01 AM PST by Albert Barr
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To: Smogger
Jihadis don't manufacture missiles. Somebody else does and sells/gives the missiles to them. It shouldn't be too hard to determine who.

The hard part is mustering the will to do something about it other than wringing our hands and maybe sending some stripped pants babbler to "negotiate" about it.

31 posted on 02/07/2007 9:34:06 AM PST by Gritty (Iran has been at war with us for 27 years, even though we’ve yet to deign to fight back-Dean Barnett)
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To: Smogger; Admin Moderator
Posted as Breaking News at 4:20 this morning:

U.S. says checking reports helicopter down in Iraq [helicopter down]

32 posted on 02/07/2007 9:40:26 AM PST by leadpenny
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To: jveritas

Why would you want to hide news that is being furnished by the military?


33 posted on 02/07/2007 9:43:18 AM PST by leadpenny
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To: HAL9000

Sorry, meant to address 32 to you too.


34 posted on 02/07/2007 9:48:01 AM PST by leadpenny
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To: greenthumbedislndr
"We shouldn't have helped those afgans against the russians... "

These are exactly my thoughts 22 years ago when I served in Soviet army. Russia never was a real threat to the US, because Russians love their children too. But Muslims are suicidal.
35 posted on 02/07/2007 9:49:56 AM PST by tubasonum (proud to be naturalized American)
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To: Smogger
I think if the President said a two star flag officer (or above) must be a passenger on each helicopter flown in Iraq, we would see a stop to this nonsense.

Helicopters are like taking candy from a kid -- proved in Afghanistan against the Russians, in Somalia against the US Army, in Vietnam, and in Iraq.

This is another case of the US Army saying, "We want an air force also."

Mr. President, please ground all helicopter ops in Iraq and Afghanistan.
36 posted on 02/07/2007 10:00:15 AM PST by detch
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To: Smogger

Russia, via Iran.


37 posted on 02/07/2007 10:03:44 AM PST by Virginia Ridgerunner ("Si vis pacem para bellum")
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To: Smogger; All
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anza_%28missile%29

Anza (missile)
Mistral
FIM-43 'Redeye'
FIM-92 'Stinger'
9K32M 'Strela-2' (SA-7)
RBS 70
9K36 'Strela-3' (SA-14)
9K38 'Igla' (SA-18)
9K310 'Igla-M' (SA-16)
KP-SAM "Shin Gung"
Blowpipe
Javelin
Starburst
Starstreak
Type 91[3]
Type 93
China HN-5A/B
China QW-1/2
China FN-6
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mornin' Ya'll,,, These are all the types of MANPADS
(shoulder-fired)That I could find ,,,There is a factory in T-Ran that makes
the Iranian version of the Strela SA-7
These are "tail-chasers",,,Passive-IR,,,Track the heat from the rear,,,
That (AP) "Witness" said they watched the Helo fly over,,
Heard the missile launch,,,saw the Helo on fire,,,then crash,,,The "Witness" must have been very close to the launch-site for this to have happened like he said,,,
FOX-NEWS now reporting that it was not shot down...

I have read that there are between 5,000 and 10,000 of these types of weapons in Iraq...
This will be costly...
38 posted on 02/07/2007 10:04:06 AM PST by 1COUNTER-MORTER-68 (THROWING ANOTHER BULLET-RIDDLED TV IN THE PILE OUT BACK~~~~~)
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To: Smogger

Our leaders are gutless pussies. When are we going to respond?


Pardon my slang. This pisses me off.


39 posted on 02/07/2007 10:06:15 AM PST by Finalapproach29er (Dems will impeach Bush if given a chance.)
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To: Smogger
In this image made from video broadcast by AP Television News, Wednesday, Feb. 7, 2007, smoke and flame rise from the crash site of a U.S. military CH-46 Sea Knight helicopter which went down about 30 kilometers (20 miles) northwest of Baghdad. The U.S. military did not give the cause of the crash or comment on casualties, though one U.S. military official said there were reportedly fewer than 10 people on board.


40 posted on 02/07/2007 10:22:56 AM PST by IndyTiger
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To: Mad_Tom_Rackham

We gotta get some serious bang for our buck soon or the muzzies' allies in congress will shut everything down.


41 posted on 02/07/2007 10:28:02 AM PST by Let's Roll ("...given the choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor - you will have war"- W.Churchill)
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To: leadpenny

I am not trying to hide it, I am just saying that we should not make in the breaking news section in particular when the "Operation to Control Baghdad" which started 12 hours ago is not in the breaking news section.


42 posted on 02/07/2007 10:39:58 AM PST by jveritas (Support The Commander in Chief in Times of War)
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To: detch

They use helicopters to medivac our wounded...they can't ground them.


43 posted on 02/07/2007 10:41:20 AM PST by repubmom (Proud Army Mom of two deployed soldiers! Psalm 91)
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To: detch
Mr. President, please ground all helicopter ops in Iraq and Afghanistan.

You are a real coward, you know!

44 posted on 02/07/2007 10:42:32 AM PST by jveritas (Support The Commander in Chief in Times of War)
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To: greenthumbedislndr
The russians would still be in Afganistan if we didn't help the freegin mooslum scum

It's easy to look back at something and say it should have been done differently. The cold war was still going strong then, and this was an historic moment in time where we could sap Soviet military power without direct confrontation. It also hastened the end of the Soviet Union itself and brought about an end to the cold war. At the time, the islamist threat wasn't near as dire as it is now, and was not considered as great a threat as the Russians were.
45 posted on 02/07/2007 10:48:55 AM PST by reagan_fanatic (Every time a jihadist dies, an angel gets its wings.)
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To: Finalapproach29er
Our leaders are gutless pussies. When are we going to respond? Pardon my slang. This pisses me off.

They will never respond in the way that's necessary to win the war because the majority of the American public is against it along with most of the Congress.

I hate to say it, but we're doomed to either a long, bloody drawn-out conflict which will seem to have no end or to a cowardly withdrawal aka VietNam.
46 posted on 02/07/2007 10:57:38 AM PST by reagan_fanatic (Every time a jihadist dies, an angel gets its wings.)
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To: jveritas

I understand your concern, however, I don't think there is anything we get here that gives an advantage to our enemies. The mods and Freepers with varied expertise catch most things that are out of line, and 99% of what is posted has already been released by the military and further filtered by the media.


47 posted on 02/07/2007 10:59:59 AM PST by leadpenny
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To: jwparkerjr

worries about the effects on the oil price and stock market,
not to mention on allies such as SA and Jordan.


48 posted on 02/07/2007 11:00:16 AM PST by rahbert
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To: jveritas

BTT


49 posted on 02/07/2007 11:40:30 AM PST by Madame Dufarge
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To: Smogger

Time for some massive, bloody payback. Both to the terrorists firing at our helicopters, and to whoever is supplying them.


50 posted on 02/07/2007 11:42:20 AM PST by ozzymandus
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