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No Escape: Male Rape In U.S. Prisons
Human Rights Watch ^ | 2007.02.12 | Joanne Mariner

Posted on 02/12/2007 11:22:29 AM PST by B-Chan

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To: UpAllNight

Jokes confuse you, don't they?

Sorry about your luck.


451 posted on 02/13/2007 12:51:07 PM PST by Lazamataz (Global warming turns people gay.)
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To: EndWelfareToday

> Try to keep up with the context of the conversation.

Uhh, no -- try not to shift the goalposts. You said:

>> Ministering to those in prison does not include stopping the punishment that *comes with being in prison*.

I observed that there *is* no legitimate punishment that "comes with being in prison." Being imprisoned *is* the punishment.

Good people -- not just Christians -- have an obligation to ensure that the prison experience comprises nothing more and nothing less than the removal of liberties.

> ANYONE that is not a member of the Body of Christ is bound by the laws of nature and of Moses.

Athiests, wiccans, Hindoos, Sikhs and idol worshipers would all argue that they are *not* bound by the laws of Moses. And Transcendental Meditationalists would probably argue that they are *not necessarily* even bound by the laws of nature. All are protected by your constitution.

I don't see the necessity to turn this into a religious argument: as such it is jolly dull and uninteresting. It is an argument about natural and constitutional Justice: nothing more.

> How many of you that are crying for this man's aching anus and poor little psychie would give a rat's rear about whomever he would have killed had the cops not gotten him off the road?

He is in Gaol as punishment, that is sufficient for me.

As a recidivist DUI he repeatedly put himself and others at an illegal *risk*, but that risk had not, so far, materialized. Nobody was killed.

Whether he ever would have killed anybody is a matter of pure conjecture -- unless you are claiming to be a prophet as well as a preacher it is by no means an established fact that he *would* have killed anybody if the cops hadn't gotten him off the road.

He is a fool, and he has come to a fool's end. That said, I care less about hypothetical victims than I care about real ones. And in his case, he is a real victim of a serious injustice.


452 posted on 02/13/2007 12:52:09 PM PST by DieHard the Hunter
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To: UpAllNight

I think not. Same for my friends.

Don't make assumptions, ask. I had this discussion with a Navy Captain's wife (who is black and an attorney for a U.S. government entity in Washington D.C- we came to the same conclusion) I'm sure the people you know are great people, it is just an ugly reality. I consider myself a good person, from a good middle class intact family (a Mom and a Dad) and I have a family member that had a brush with the law.


453 posted on 02/13/2007 12:54:17 PM PST by brwnsuga
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To: aculeus
"In effect, the state is providing sex toys or sex slaves to the most violent. What on Earth is just -- or funny -- about that?"

The lack of responses to your post speaks volumes, and the gleeful replies by some who are in effect sanctioning the rapists is flat-out sickening.

Sad day for FR.

454 posted on 02/13/2007 1:03:09 PM PST by Sam's Army
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To: DieHard the Hunter
And in his case, he is a real victim of a serious injustice.

He is nothing more than a victim of his own selfishness and stupidity. And as you say, prisoners have NO liberty. Meaning they have NO freedoms or RIGHTS while in prison. In fact, depending upon one's crimes they man have most of their rights stripped from them for the rest of their lives! He's lucky society didn't execute him. Some societies execute prisoners for a lot less.

Now don't snivel to me about how bad a prisoner is being treated. Next time, if he ever gets out, he may wish to obey the law. Otherwise tough luck.

455 posted on 02/13/2007 1:05:43 PM PST by EndWelfareToday (Live free and keep what you earn. - Tancredo or Hunter)
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To: brwnsuga

--Don't make assumptions, ask.--

That is one stupid post.


--I had this discussion with a Navy Captain's wife (who is black and an attorney for a U.S. government entity in Washington D.C- we came to the same conclusion) I'm sure the people you know are great people, it is just an ugly reality.--

Not many great people. Just ordinary people.


--I consider myself a good person, from a good middle class intact family (a Mom and a Dad) and I have a family member that had a brush with the law.--

Did he go to jail?


456 posted on 02/13/2007 1:09:14 PM PST by UpAllNight
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To: EndWelfareToday
Don't violate the law. Don't get thrown in prison.

That's the funny thing about our hyper-bureaucracy... there are few people left in the nation who have not violated some edict from our beloved leaders. No citizen can guarantee that they have filled out their taxes with 100% precision (even the IRS itself cannot give consistent answers to basic questions)... if you have enough dollar bills in your pocket, you may have enough residue to earn a cocaine possession charge... heck, spanking your child can now be interpreted as child abuse.

Then ask the Duke lacrosse players or ex-husbands of particularly vindictive women about how facing this kind of thing despite being innocent.

457 posted on 02/13/2007 1:12:22 PM PST by Teacher317 (Are you familiar with the writings of Shan Yu?)
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To: UpAllNight

I don't think it is stupid, I think its my opinion, which is what FR is all about.

Just ask, tell them about my post and ask. And yes, the person went to jail but, I'm sure you'll be glad to know, they have been a productive member of society since then. Hugs'n'kisses to you.


458 posted on 02/13/2007 1:16:31 PM PST by brwnsuga
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To: EndWelfareToday
prisoners have NO liberty. Meaning they have NO freedoms or RIGHTS while in prison. In fact, depending upon one's crimes they man have most of their rights stripped from them for the rest of their lives! He's lucky society didn't execute him.

You are a blithering fool. Prisoners certainly do retain many, if not most, basic human rights. An incredibly small percentage can potentially face the death penalty, but even then, we require nearly a decade filled with mandatory hearings and appeals that they are entitled to, simply because they are human. Religious rights, due process rights, hell even the "right" to abortions are all recognized for those behind prison walls.

Some societies execute prisoners for a lot less.

Of course... but we're talking about this society... and in this society, decent people do not defend the notion of gang-rape of anyone, for any reason. With your attitude, you'd do well in a Muslim society that condoned gang raping teenaged girls for perceived slights to male family members. Thankfully, most of America isn't joining up for that kind of society yet.

459 posted on 02/13/2007 1:20:42 PM PST by Teacher317 (Are you familiar with the writings of Shan Yu?)
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To: EndWelfareToday

> He is nothing more than a victim of his own selfishness and stupidity.

He is a victim of rape. Multiple times. Rape is a serious crime, no matter where it happens or under what circumstances.

> And as you say, prisoners have NO liberty. Meaning they have NO freedoms or RIGHTS while in prison.

Prisoners have basic Human Rights: including the right not to get raped.

> Now don't snivel to me about how bad a prisoner is being treated.

I bet your brand of "Christianity" is lots of fun to follow, ay! You sound more like the Taliban than a real Christian -- in fact, it is attitudes like yours that give Christians a bad name.

Here's one to you, from Jesus:

(Matthew 7 -- the Sermon on the Mount)

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

And later in the Chapter:

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

I shall pray for you.
*DieHard*


460 posted on 02/13/2007 1:20:43 PM PST by DieHard the Hunter
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To: B-Chan

Ok, here is an example of libs good intentions(though, I have always said Dems and libs are soft on crime in case they end up getting caught),, here is an example of good intentions making things worse. Prisoners rights and rehabilitation instead of punishment, law libraries for prisoners, weight rooms, TV's, no prison uniforms,,,the whole prison system needs overturned. Slack and soft standards breed this kind of thing. Just for the sake of discussion, here is my laundry list that would change everything,,, first, increase pay and standards for prison guards and exempt them from major lawsuits. Allow more authority for prison guards. Make prison uniforms unattractive(no more cool looking jean outfits) and mandatory. Everyone gets a buzz cut. No hairstyles, mustaches or beards! No tattoos allowed to be made while in prison. If you get one made, you get them all removed. Hard labor 6 days a week, 10 to 12 hours a day. Break up stone, dig ditches and fill them again, who cares. No weights or exercise machines. No TV. No magazines other than Reader Digest, books on the Power of Positive Thinking and the Bible. Punishments for policy violators should be swift and severe. They get wipped on the bare rear with a reed cane by a martial artist! Prisons rapes should result in castration, as should any rape. If these kind of policies would be enacted, as harsh as they are,, it would actually result in more real punishment, yet less violence. Rape, prison violence and these gangs occur because they can. We create the climate for them to flourish. Our society just is not serious about dealing with real crime. "Prisoners Rights" and the "Rehabilitation" mentality actually ensure they have no rights or safety from each other as well as ensuring they are harder and more dangerous than when they went in.


461 posted on 02/13/2007 1:29:38 PM PST by freemike
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To: brwnsuga

--Just ask, tell them about my post and ask.--

I have no need to.


--And yes, --

Did that person's experience reflect what was in the original article?


462 posted on 02/13/2007 1:29:57 PM PST by UpAllNight
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To: UpAllNight

I did screw up big time. In fact, I was pretty much 100% screw-up at the time, thanks to weak character combined with untreated mental illness. I'm better now.

As for anger, I'm not sure what you mean. Were you a snipe on the 'Prize?


463 posted on 02/13/2007 1:57:52 PM PST by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: B-Chan

--I'm better now. --

Good.


--Were you a snipe on the 'Prize?--

Nuclear + Catapult & Elevator Shop.


464 posted on 02/13/2007 2:01:02 PM PST by UpAllNight
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To: UpAllNight

You were a Nuke? EM or MM? Which plant? What cruise?


465 posted on 02/13/2007 2:02:40 PM PST by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: B-Chan

Weren't no MM's in the C&E shop. 73/74


466 posted on 02/13/2007 2:04:34 PM PST by UpAllNight
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To: UpAllNight

Way before my time (1985-86). Didn't know there were any Nukes in cat country.


467 posted on 02/13/2007 2:15:05 PM PST by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: Sam's Army

Just came across some related discussions.


http://www.janegalt.net/archives/009477.html


http://ezraklein.typepad.com/blog/2006/08/prison_rape.html

http://www.janegalt.net/

(the last one requires some scrolling)


468 posted on 02/13/2007 3:31:13 PM PST by aculeus
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To: Teacher317
Grow up. Just because everyone has sinned doesn't make sinning right and it certainly doesn't excuse any future sins nor does it negate the fact that the wages of sin is death.

As for the "Duke lacrosse players?" Please. That red herring is irrelevant. The subject of this thread had been arrested and CONVICTED twice for his DUI's before being sent to prison. It's not like he didn't know what would happen to him if he didn't stop drinking and driving. His choice. His price to pay for his sin.
469 posted on 02/13/2007 4:02:16 PM PST by EndWelfareToday (Live free and keep what you earn. - Tancredo or Hunter)
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To: P-40

Have to kind of agree with you on that one. Honestly, after having had a best friend killed by a drunk driver (who had previous DUIs), I have a hard time working up any sympathy for anyone who drives UI. She didn't deserve to be killed at age 29, her daughter didn't deserve to lose her mother at age 8. They had NO choice in the matter.


470 posted on 02/13/2007 4:26:40 PM PST by ktscarlett66 (Face it girls....I'm older and I have more insurance....)
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To: P-40

Have to kind of agree with you on that one. Honestly, after having had a best friend killed by a drunk driver (who had previous DUIs), I have a hard time working up any sympathy for anyone who drives UI. She didn't deserve to be killed at age 29, her daughter didn't deserve to lose her mother at age 8. They had NO choice in the matter.


471 posted on 02/13/2007 4:26:52 PM PST by ktscarlett66 (Face it girls....I'm older and I have more insurance....)
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To: Sam's Army
the gleeful replies by some who are in effect sanctioning the rapists is flat-out sickening. Sad day for FR.

They are sanctioning the rapes, and sanctioning the subversion of the legal system. The think that their law-and-order rhetoric provides cover for their Sadism. As you say, it is sickening, but it is not particularly unusual on FR.

472 posted on 02/13/2007 4:56:39 PM PST by TChad
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To: ktscarlett66
I have a hard time working up any sympathy for anyone who drives UI.

Human Rights Watch should not have picked such a character to start their article off with. He is not likely to engage the reader's sympathy and sets an unsympathetic tone for the rest of the story. Too many people have been adversely affected by drunk driving for this story to be a best seller.
473 posted on 02/13/2007 5:36:38 PM PST by P-40 (Al Qaeda was working in Iraq. They were just undocumented.)
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To: P-40

Even DUI doesn't merit group rape.


474 posted on 02/13/2007 5:39:03 PM PST by RadioCirca1970 (Hey D.U.--F.U...)
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To: RadioCirca1970
Even DUI doesn't merit group rape.

No one said it did, even for this three time loser.
475 posted on 02/13/2007 5:42:49 PM PST by P-40 (Al Qaeda was working in Iraq. They were just undocumented.)
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To: EndWelfareToday

What happens if you get arrested and thrown in the joint? Will you be as blasé about rape when it's you they're bending over behind the tool shed?


476 posted on 02/13/2007 7:25:13 PM PST by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: B-Chan

Two things. 1) I won't get thrown in the "Joint" and 2) It will be a cold day in hell before I'm bent over behind anything. If I ever were "bent over" those who would do it had better know that I would kill them. I would be the last "piece of ***" they would ever know.


477 posted on 02/13/2007 7:41:12 PM PST by EndWelfareToday (Live free and keep what you earn. - Tancredo or Hunter)
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To: EndWelfareToday
Two things. 1) I won't get thrown in the "Joint"...

LOL. And you know this for certain how?

It will be a cold day in hell before I'm bent over behind anything. If I ever were "bent over" those who would do it had better know that I would kill them. I would be the last "piece of ***" they would ever know.

Tough guy, huh? Wouldja use your adamantium claws on 'em, Wolverine?

Thanks for the smile, but ninja, please. You could be in the county slam by this time tomorrow night. All it would take is for you to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and bam. I don't care how tough your are -- against two, five, or a dozen you're toast.

Think it can't happen to you? It happens to people just like you every day.

478 posted on 02/13/2007 8:36:19 PM PST by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: EndWelfareToday

You might be a real tough guy, but to quote a dude I worked with 25 years ago, "ANY MAN THAT SAYS HE WAS TOO TOUGH FOR ANYONE TO RAPE IN PRISON WAS EITHER A PUNK WHO LAYED DOWN WILLINGLY OR JUST A LIAR." My work mate said ANYONE can be beaten down and raped....period. That's mean you too dude.

And you would do what???? KILL them????!! Do you REALLY think that is a deterrence???


479 posted on 02/13/2007 8:45:09 PM PST by armourup (Impeach Bush!)
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To: B-Chan
** Two things. 1) I won't get thrown in the "Joint"...

> LOL. And you know this for certain how?

I am a son of God and I obey the laws of the land.

** It will be a cold day in hell before I'm bent over behind anything. If I ever were "bent over" those who would do it had better know that I would kill them. I would be the last "piece of ***" they would ever know.

> Tough guy, huh?

Actually... Yes. I am a "tough guy."

> Wouldja use your adamantium claws on 'em, Wolverine?

* smile * Yeah! That's it.

> Thanks for the smile, but ninja, please. You could be in the county slam by this time tomorrow night.

Keep dreamin sparky. ;-)

> All it would take is for you to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and bam.

True but you don't get it. I don't ever end up "in the wrong place." As I said. I am a son of God and I only go where He leads me.

> I don't care how tough your are --

And personally I don't give a rat's arse what you "care" about. Your opinions are worthless to me and irrelevant. Nothing personal but... well. You have no credibility with me.

against two, five, or a dozen you're toast.

Think so? You don't know me and even if you were right, those guys would have to sleep.

> Think it can't happen to you?

That's right. I do think it can't happen to me. Again, I'm not a drunk. I don't solicit whores. I don't violate the law and I am led of God through Jesus Christ by the Holy Spirit in all things. I don't give anyone a reason to throw me in jail and even if I did I'd make amends before such an event could occur.

Let me put it to you another way. I don't live in fear and I don't expect others to feel sorry for me if something were to happen to me.

> It happens to people just like you every day.

You know nothing of "people like me."

One more thing sparky. Not everyone that goes to jail ends up being someone's b****. Just because you are afraid you probably would be doesn't mean the rest of us are.

480 posted on 02/13/2007 8:54:30 PM PST by EndWelfareToday (Live free and keep what you earn. - Tancredo or Hunter)
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To: armourup

Typical liberal. Do you libs ever have a day when you aren't afraid of your own shadow?


481 posted on 02/13/2007 8:56:52 PM PST by EndWelfareToday (Live free and keep what you earn. - Tancredo or Hunter)
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To: EndWelfareToday

482 posted on 02/13/2007 9:02:05 PM PST by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: B-Chan

I've always thought it was ridiculous that these things are allowed to happen in a controlled environment like a prison. It seems like a great case for privitization. If the guards were held responsible like at any other private firm, the number of rapes would be cut way back. In a government facility, a guard can take a bribe to look the other way and just shrug his shoulders when an inmate is attacked. In a private facility, he would be held directly responsible for what happened on his watch. I'm not soft on crime at all, but it's a crime in and of itself that prisoners under the care of the state and federal government are allowed to run amok like a bunch of wild animals.


483 posted on 02/13/2007 9:23:37 PM PST by Rastus
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To: B-Chan

Did I miss it in the article; what prison did this happen in?


484 posted on 02/13/2007 9:36:34 PM PST by no dems (Duncan Hunter for Prez / Tony Snow for VEEP in '08)
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To: EndWelfareToday
Solution?

Don't violate the law. Don't get thrown in prison.

Don't enter the border patrol profession.

485 posted on 02/13/2007 9:41:47 PM PST by pax_et_bonum (I will always love you, Flyer.)
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To: pax_et_bonum

Excellent point!


486 posted on 02/14/2007 5:45:32 AM PST by EndWelfareToday (Live free and keep what you earn. - Tancredo or Hunter)
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To: EndWelfareToday

I've learned from experience.

;-)


487 posted on 02/14/2007 5:49:41 AM PST by pax_et_bonum (I will always love you, Flyer.)
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To: Rastus

I have a problem with the whole concept of prison as it is known today. I don't think it is effective either as a means of punishment or as a way to safeguard the public from criminals. I would prefer to see a simple three-tiered system of criminal punishment: confinement (under Spartan conditions -- say an outdoor fenced pen behind the local courthouse) for misdemeanor crimes, corporal punishment (caning) for non-violent felony crimes, and hanging for crimes of violence. Hanging would be used only in cases where a plea of "guilty" is entered by the accused; those claiming innocence would be given a commuted sentence (up to life) without possibility of parole, to be served in a prison camp run under military discipline.

Ideally, we should have a Coventry -- an area where the law does not apply -- in every state. This area would have fenced and guarded borders, but within those borders would be without any law or legal government at all. Those who choose to live without the law would be sent to Coventry, where no law exists, there to survive as best they can.


488 posted on 02/14/2007 7:26:48 AM PST by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: UpAllNight
If anyone has experienced sheer terror, it’s Kirk Bloodsworth.

Tried and found guilty of the brutal rape and murder of a 9-year-old Rosedale girl, the barrel-chested crabber from the Eastern Shore was sentenced to die in the gas chamber for his horrific crimes.

But Mr. Bloodsworth didn’t have anything to do with what he was accused of. A former marine with no criminal record, he had been wrongly convicted and would later become the first American on death row to be exonerated by DNA testing.

But as he was led onto the grounds of the Maryland State Penitentiary in Baltimore in 1985 on his first day on death row, no one believed his story – least of all the other prisoners.

Handcuffed and shackled as he slowly made his way across the yard of the penitentiary, Mr. Bloodsworth noticed other prisoners racing to the fences to glimpse the monster they had heard so much about.

This was the man a Baltimore County jury convicted of beating Dawn Hamilton with a rock, sexually mutilating her, raping her and strangling her to death by stepping on her neck.

As the new prisoner shuffled onto the old prison campus, he was dwarfed by the gothic structure’s tall granite walls, silver spires and imposing turrets that loomed ominously over Forrest Street like a medieval castle.

Jeering at him, the inmates shouted repeated threats of violence.

“We’re going to do to you what you did to that little girl,” they screamed. “We’re going to get you, Kirk!”...

Mr. Bloodsworth believes one of the main reasons he was arrested was the tremendous pressure Baltimore County police were under to find the person who had committed those heinous acts in the summer of 1984. Two young boys identified him as the person they saw near the crime scene and an anonymous caller said he had been seen with the girl earlier in the day.

Mr. Bloodsworth, who never met the murdered girl, had told an acquaintance he had done something “terrible” that day. He was referring to his failure to buy his wife dinner, but it was used against him in a different context.

Although he lived in the area of the crime, Mr. Bloodsworth had returned to the Eastern Shore soon after the murder – making it look like he had fled. Misfortune seemed to conspire against him at every turn.

The Maryland Court of Appeals overturned his conviction in 1986 because of withheld information at his original trial, but he was again found guilty by a second jury and sentenced to two consecutive life terms. Of the nearly nine years he spent behind bars, two of them were on death row.

Mr. Bloodsworth was the one who had first proposed the idea of DNA testing. An avid reader in prison who served as the librarian, he learned about the new technology in a book called “The Blooding.” Robert Morin, his attorney, was able to get his client tested.

It was exactly that post-conviction testing that proved Mr. Bloodsworth’s innocence in 1993. He was released and paid $300,000 in compensation – the accumulated salary the state said he would have earned as a waterman. Gov. William Donald Schaefer pardoned him that same year.

Mr. Bloodsworth said he had to endure the suspicions of many who believed he had gotten off on a technicality. It was difficult for him to maintain a job after his release because people thought he was a murderer. DNA testing later identified the real killer – Kimberly Shay Ruffner, a man who had been previously charged with sexually assaulting children. He pled guilty to the Dawn Hamilton murder and is now serving a life sentence.

Related thread

Still think it can't happen to you?
489 posted on 02/14/2007 1:03:34 PM PST by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: B-Chan

The prison system in the US is uncivilised and a violation against fundamental human rights. It's as simple as that really.


490 posted on 02/14/2007 1:08:28 PM PST by Kurt_Hectic (Trust only what you see, not what you hear)
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To: B-Chan

--Still think it can't happen to you?--

Anything can happen but odds are extremely small that I don't worry about it. I would not have left the area right after being questioned with my wife filing a missing persons report on me. His excuse for leaving town? He forgot to bring home some fast food for his wife's dinner and she was mad at him. Along with the 'eye-witness' testimonies, he certainly looked guilty. But now we have DNA testing (which set him free) so it is less likely to happen now.


491 posted on 02/14/2007 1:35:08 PM PST by UpAllNight
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To: B-Chan

Since Human Rights Watch is involved I question the authenticity of the letter(s) and the study.


492 posted on 01/09/2008 11:11:59 AM PST by Bogtrotter52 (Reading DU daily so you won't hafta)
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