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Ten Years After Empire State Terror Attack, the Truth Comes Out
Little Green Footballs ^ | February 18, 2007 | Charles Johnson

Posted on 02/18/2007 9:42:28 AM PST by faq

In February 1997, Palestinian English teacher Ali Abu Kamal went to the 86th floor observation deck of the Empire State Building, pulled out a gun, and opened fire, killing one person and wounding six others before killing himself. Even though he carried letters ranting about the US and Israel, the media heavily promoted the story that he was despondent and suicidal after a financial loss.

Today the killer’s daughter—who works for the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestinian “refugees” (UNRWA)—admitted that this story was a complete fraud. She wants the world to know that her father was “martyred for patriotic motivations.”

And the family was directly instructed to lie about it by the Palestinian Authority: Killer’s daughter admits it was political.

GAZA CITY - Ali Abu Kamal’s relatives say they are tired of lying about why the Palestinian opened fire on the observation deck of Empire State Building, killing a tourist and injuring six other people before committing suicide.

Kamal’s widow insisted after the shooting spree that the attack was not politically motivated. She said that her husband had become suicidal after losing $300,000 in a business venture.

But in a stunning admission, Kamal’s 48-year-old daughter Linda told the Daily News that her dad wanted to punish the U.S. for supporting Israel - and revealed her mom’s 1997 account was a cover story crafted by the Palestinian Authority.

A Palestinian Authority official advised us to say the attack was not for political reasons because that would harm the peace agreement with Israel,” she told The News on Friday. “We didn’t know that he was martyred for patriotic motivations, so we repeated what we were told to do.”

But three days after the shootings, Kamal’s family got a copy of a letter that was found on his body, they said. The letter said he planned the violence as a political statement, his daughter said. “When we wanted to clarify that to the media, nobody listened to us,” she said. “His goal was patriotic. He wanted to take revenge from the Americans, the British, the French and the Israelis.”

She said the family became certain that he carried out the attack for political reasons after reading his diary. “He wrote that after he raised his children and made sure that his family was all right he decided to avenge in the highest building in America to make sure they get his message,” said Linda, who works for the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees.

She said her mom burned the diary, fearing that it would cause the family trouble.



TOPICS: Front Page News; US: New York
KEYWORDS: aliabukamal; enemywithin; giuliani; guiliani; gungrabbingrino; infiltration; journalisticfraud; kamal; msmlies; muslims; newyork; ny; rino; rinonottoughonterror; rop; suddenjihadsyndrome; terrorism; trop; withinthegates
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To: Grampa Dave; faq; MizSterious; ASA Vet; BIGLOOK; PhiKapMom; Ernest_at_the_Beach; Enchante; ...
The list is longer than we know. Federal and Local law enforcement's campaign to suppress vigilantism against Muslims.......and illegal aliens.

Doesn't matter if it's a case of terrorism or drug rings or espionage, the courts dictate the rules to law enforcement giving terrorist activity and criminal activity free reign. Of course the fifth column media aids and abets in this PC deception. Shoot your neighbor's cat for digging up and befouling your garden and you're on the national news for a week; Palestinian man shoots seven people at the ESB in NYC......more on page 8.
51 posted on 02/18/2007 11:22:51 AM PST by BIGLOOK (Keelhauling is a sensible solution to mutiny.)
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To: Spiff
RINO-rudy: even in the Second Amendment, it refers to firearms in the context of a well regulated militia, and well regulated is what we're trying to accomplish.

ONLY a jack-booted-thug (a northeastern-corridor "LAWR"-enforcement storm trooper or gun-grabbing lawyer/bureaucrat) would think that the word "regulated", as it was written in the 2nd Amendment (and other papers/arguments of the time) means that the GOVERNMENT should create laws, issue edicts, or produce mandates to CONTROL how we practice our 2nd Amendment RIGHTS.

In the context of the times, the ORIGINAL meaning of our Founding Fathers, where the 2nd Amendment is concerned, is, in short (from guncite.com):

"to put in good order" is the correct interpretation of well regulated, signifying a well disciplined, trained, and functioning militia.

The "militia" of course, is NOT only the National Guard, as the anti-gun, anti-2A liberals want us to believe, but essentially, all law-abiding, INDIVIDUAL American citizens.

I can see a President rudy (I just threw up in my throat a bit) after a rare, but terrible tragedy involving the misuse of a firearm, using his executive powers and his Treasury Secretary (in much the way clinton did), to make entire CLASSES of firearms illegal, except for those willing to pay big bucks and jump through government hoops under the NFA (National Firearms Act).

Additionally, I can see RINO-rudy using any and all methods, beyond the tactics clinton used, to further erode our 2A rights. It's in his blood.

I don't trust him with our 2nd Amendment rights, and for that reason, and MANY others, he should NOT be allowed to be elevated to the highest office in the land.

If you think about it, RINO-rudy has vigorously pushed more gun-control on MANY occasions.

Even hillary hasn't done that!

52 posted on 02/18/2007 11:23:16 AM PST by DocH (Gun-grabbers, you can HAVE my guns... lead first.)
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To: rawcatslyentist
Stoopid moo! Her father was a MURDERER. Period. She is a LIAR. Period.

A difference of opinion, then.
I take her at her word.

Whether it is the absolue truth and a fact, or whether she is simply playing the mindless muslim propaganda card, makes no never mind to me.

I take it at face value.

53 posted on 02/18/2007 11:24:06 AM PST by Publius6961 (MSM: Israelis are killed by rockets; Lebanese are killed by Israelis.)
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To: DocH

You are so right. Stinkin RINO and their crazy gun views. Guns for everyone should be as easy to get as candy bars.

Real Republicans would be at the airports greeting foreigners, particularly Moslem, particularly "Palestinians", with 20% off coupons to buy a gun at NO RINO'S GUN SHOP. It would generate damn good business.

An even smarter real Republican, from the ANGRY FOREIGNERS ARE ARMED SHOULDN'T YOU BE TOO GUN SHOP, will at the same time be at the airport to greet Americans with a 5% off coupon and a warning that Hamid just got off the plane from the Mideast and he is pissed and armed.

Real Republicans can go to the electorate with the campaign slogan: "Vote Republican. We'll be there to shoot the guy who shot you and you family."


54 posted on 02/18/2007 11:26:49 AM PST by Sabramerican (Says the piano player: America's greatest legacy will be to create a Palestinian State)
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To: Spiff
Thanks Spiff for your comprehensive post on RINO-rudy's GUN-GRABBING response to what was, essentially, an islamic radical TERROR attack.

I didn't have the docs to prove what my memory of this event was, but now it's out there for all to see.

Keep up the good fight against this, and all other liberal RINOs that are trying to HIJACK the Republican party.

55 posted on 02/18/2007 11:27:35 AM PST by DocH (Gun-grabbers, you can HAVE my guns... lead first.)
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To: Grampa Dave
I would not describe him as a crazed Islamofascist.

He was a POS loser who rationally chose to murder random Americans at an iconic venue in a religious rite (liturgy?). The purpose - a priapistic, adolescent desire for sexual gratification as promised by the Great Pedophile (P*ssBUH).

Yes, Linda Abu Kamal, your dad was a real patriot. /s

56 posted on 02/18/2007 11:29:09 AM PST by Peelod (Decentia est fragilis. Curatoribus validis indiget.)
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To: Sabramerican

Idiot.


57 posted on 02/18/2007 11:30:21 AM PST by DocH (Gun-grabbers, you can HAVE my guns... lead first.)
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To: All; Txsleuth; Bahbah; AliVeritas; Contessa1; Neverforget01; defconw; cibco; Fudd Fan; ...
Yup...that's the most pressing threat this country faces...gun control...

It isn't international terror...it isn't Al Qaeda...it's Iran or Syria....or even Hezbollah...

it's Rudy Giuliani who wants to take your guns away...

it isn't a border that leaks like a sieve...it isn't a federal government that will not enforce border security allowing OTMs to cross into our country...it's Rudy Giuliani who wants to take your guns away...

We are headed down the sh*tter as a nation and we're worried about Rudy Giuliani supporting gun control in 1997.

The House of Representatives debates a non-binding resolution against the POTUS plan during a time of war, Republicans in the Senate manage to avoid such a debate and vote, but we've got our knickers in a bunch because Rudy is trying to take your guns away.

I am fast reaching the point of despair for my country.

58 posted on 02/18/2007 11:33:17 AM PST by sofaman ("The American people are tired of liars and people who pretend to be something they're not.")
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To: garv
RINO-rudy: We need a federal law that bans all assault weapons, and if in fact you do need a handgun you should be subjected to at least the same restrictions -- and really stronger ones -- that exist for driving an automobile.

Yep...

Right out of the anti-gun-fanatic liberal demonRAT playbook, trying to compare DRIVING a CAR with a CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT that is NOT supposed to be infringed.

Thanks for the post garv.

59 posted on 02/18/2007 11:36:52 AM PST by DocH (Gun-grabbers, you can HAVE my guns... lead first.)
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To: Publius6961

How bad do things have to get before a muzzie can get charged with a "hate" crime in the US?


60 posted on 02/18/2007 11:38:15 AM PST by LibSnubber (Liberal democrats are domestic terrorists)
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To: lowbridge
When it's a rainy day when one expected sunshine, it's grounds for a car bombing.

They don't just have a 'bad hair day', they have a 'bad hair life'.

61 posted on 02/18/2007 11:39:14 AM PST by 6SJ7
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To: sofaman
If ye are despaired sofaman, then stay on the sofa and let the adults go out and vote.

For the millionth time, it's NOT only about gun control, OR the WoT.

There are MANY issues that RINO-rudy is on the WRONG, LIBERAL side of.

He has ABSOLUTELY no business running ANYTHING more than a northeastern BLUEST-of-BLUE left-wing inner-city.

For the good of our party and our country, RINO-rudy needs to FORGET running for president of the United States.

If he insists on continuing to run, well then...

let him run as a LIBERAL DEMOCRAT or LIBERAL INDEPENDENT.

62 posted on 02/18/2007 11:42:13 AM PST by DocH (Gun-grabbers, you can HAVE my guns... lead first.)
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To: DocH
*** For the good of our party and our country, RINO-rudy needs to FORGET running for president of the United States. If he insists on continuing to run, well then...

let him run as a LIBERAL DEMOCRAT or LIBERAL INDEPENDENT.***


BUMP!!!


63 posted on 02/18/2007 12:01:15 PM PST by Condor51 (Rudy makes John Kerry look like a 'Right Wing Extremist'.)
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To: faq; Lancey Howard; Rodney King
But three days after the shootings, Kamal’s family got a copy of a letter that was found on his body, they said. The letter said he planned the violence as a political statement, his daughter said.

If such a letter had been found on his body this story would have come out before. I don't believe that the government and media are conspiring to not let us know about these things.

Furthermore if the letter had been found on the body, the authorities would not have sent it by FedEx to the family in Gaza so that they would get it only three days later. The family could have received a copy of the letter from another source but then they would have no assurance that it was found on the body.

The man's motivation might have had something to do with avenging Palestinians, but the story as written does not make sense.

64 posted on 02/18/2007 12:03:26 PM PST by wideminded
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To: wideminded

Good post, perhaps the following explanation:

Man sends it to his own family, so that they know why he did what he did. He says a copy of it would also be on him when he did it. Just a thought.


65 posted on 02/18/2007 12:05:12 PM PST by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: garv

Since it was the NYPD and FBI who found the letter indicating that the shooting was a jihadist attack by a Muslim seeking "revenge", I don't think I'd be wrong if I thought Rudy knew of the letter.


66 posted on 02/18/2007 12:08:50 PM PST by DBrow
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To: garv; Spiff; DocH

Yes, I read the article and Mr Giulinai's archives. Which part of this statement do you not agree with?

"It's mind-boggling to most people that someone can come in from a foreign country on a visitor's visa and buy a gun in the United States, not just a gun but an automatic weapon, 14 rounds, where you can in four or five seconds get 14 bullets out.''

I note the hypocrisy of claiming to care about border security, another favorite taunt, and then letting aliens, Muslim ones at that, get guns.


67 posted on 02/18/2007 12:09:19 PM PST by dervish (In the business world, two weeks spent on a nonbinding resolution would be considered nonproductive.)
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To: sofaman

All good points, sofadude, all very good points.


68 posted on 02/18/2007 12:12:38 PM PST by Bahbah (.Regev, Goldwasser & Shalit, we are praying for you.)
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To: ConservaTexan
Do muslimes kill for any other reason????

Well, yes,

If someone "gets their goat"

If someone dances, drinks or fornicates, outside the immediate family

If someone believes in the god, the true god, and only the god, but not THEIRS.

To sharpen their beheading skills

The list is long

69 posted on 02/18/2007 12:13:04 PM PST by going hot (Happiness is a momma deuce)
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To: wideminded
" If such a letter had been found on his body this story would have come out before."

What makes you think that? The woman in the story claims to have tried to get media attention and failed.

The US media would much rather promote civil disarmament than arouse us to enemies within, who plot against us (that would make us resist disarming all the more). This is not a conspiracy, it's bias, and they are quite open about it.

If Rudy knew, he'd keep it quiet, since his main message of the need for "sensible gun controls at the federal level" would have been blunted. No conspiracy, just keeping on topic in a PR move.

And as for the timeline, yes, it would take several days to snail a real copy of the letter, but even way back in '97 we had technology that would let us send an image of the letter. The cops would not have sent the actual letter, they'd keep the original for forensics for months.
70 posted on 02/18/2007 12:16:07 PM PST by DBrow
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To: sofaman
I am a single issue voter. My issue is the Second Amendment. So far McGiuliRomney CANNOT pass this test. I cannot and will not support ANYONE who is a gungrabber for any reason and if you read what follows, you'll know why. Ignorance will no longer be an excuse for you. This is not a game and the very future of the Republic is at stake, which is why it is NO TIME to keep playing political GAMES and electing RINOs just because they call themselves Pubbies. When you do that, YOU are responsible for the evil that they continue to perpetuate. Yes, there is a war going on. But the war on Americans by our own government is by far the biggest threat to this nation. Once we set our OWN house in order, we can then determine who is the ACTUAL foreign enemy and deal with him in short order. War on Terrorism? Who is "Terrorism?" Where is his homeland? Where does he train? No, this is just another phoney label to give government an open-ended opportunity coupled with a blank check and serious and severe erosion of our constitutionally-guaranteed liberties in the name of fighting a TACTIC, not a named and seen enemy. We need to pinpoint the location of the practitioners of this tactic (the REAL enemy) and serve notice to their sponsoring States: Put a stop to this, HANG the al Quaeda bunch (or just behead them) and never let them work from your country again or we will DECLARE WAR on YOU. No matter WHO these nations are, whether they be Saudi Arabia, Iran, Syria or whoever. That is the ONLY way to WIN.

Why Did it Have to be ... Guns?

by L. Neil Smith

lneil@lneilsmith.org

Over the past 30 years, I've been paid to write almost two million words, every one of which, sooner or later, came back to the issue of guns and gun-ownership. Naturally, I've thought about the issue a lot, and it has always determined the way I vote.

People accuse me of being a single-issue writer, a single- issue thinker, and a single- issue voter, but it isn't true. What I've chosen, in a world where there's never enough time and energy, is to focus on the one political issue which most clearly and unmistakably demonstrates what any politician—or political philosophy—is made of, right down to the creamy liquid center.

Make no mistake: all politicians—even those ostensibly on the side of guns and gun ownership—hate the issue and anyone, like me, who insists on bringing it up. They hate it because it's an X-ray machine. It's a Vulcan mind-meld. It's the ultimate test to which any politician—or political philosophy—can be put.

If a politician isn't perfectly comfortable with the idea of his average constituent, any man, woman, or responsible child, walking into a hardware store and paying cash—for any rifle, shotgun, handgun, machinegun, anything—without producing ID or signing one scrap of paper, he isn't your friend no matter what he tells you.

If he isn't genuinely enthusiastic about his average constituent stuffing that weapon into a purse or pocket or tucking it under a coat and walking home without asking anybody's permission, he's a four-flusher, no matter what he claims.

What his attitude—toward your ownership and use of weapons—conveys is his real attitude about you. And if he doesn't trust you, then why in the name of John Moses Browning should you trust him?

If he doesn't want you to have the means of defending your life, do you want him in a position to control it?

If he makes excuses about obeying a law he's sworn to uphold and defend—the highest law of the land, the Bill of Rights—do you want to entrust him with anything?

If he ignores you, sneers at you, complains about you, or defames you, if he calls you names only he thinks are evil—like "Constitutionalist"—when you insist that he account for himself, hasn't he betrayed his oath, isn't he unfit to hold office, and doesn't he really belong in jail?

Sure, these are all leading questions. They're the questions that led me to the issue of guns and gun ownership as the clearest and most unmistakable demonstration of what any given politician—or political philosophy—is really made of.

He may lecture you about the dangerous weirdos out there who shouldn't have a gun—but what does that have to do with you? Why in the name of John Moses Browning should you be made to suffer for the misdeeds of others? Didn't you lay aside the infantile notion of group punishment when you left public school—or the military? Isn't it an essentially European notion, anyway—Prussian, maybe—and certainly not what America was supposed to be all about?

And if there are dangerous weirdos out there, does it make sense to deprive you of the means of protecting yourself from them? Forget about those other people, those dangerous weirdos, this is about you, and it has been, all along.

Try it yourself: if a politician won't trust you, why should you trust him? If he's a man—and you're not—what does his lack of trust tell you about his real attitude toward women? If "he" happens to be a woman, what makes her so perverse that she's eager to render her fellow women helpless on the mean and seedy streets her policies helped create? Should you believe her when she says she wants to help you by imposing some infantile group health care program on you at the point of the kind of gun she doesn't want you to have?

On the other hand—or the other party—should you believe anything politicians say who claim they stand for freedom, but drag their feet and make excuses about repealing limits on your right to own and carry weapons? What does this tell you about their real motives for ignoring voters and ramming through one infantile group trade agreement after another with other countries?

Makes voting simpler, doesn't it? You don't have to study every issue—health care, international trade—all you have to do is use this X-ray machine, this Vulcan mind-meld, to get beyond their empty words and find out how politicians really feel. About you. And that, of course, is why they hate it.

And that's why I'm accused of being a single-issue writer, thinker, and voter.

But it isn't true, is it?

Permission to redistribute this article is herewith granted by the author—provided that it is reproduced unedited, in its entirety, and appropriate credit given.

71 posted on 02/18/2007 12:26:38 PM PST by dcwusmc (We need to make government so small that it can be drowned in a bathtub.)
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To: wideminded
If such a letter had been found on his body this story would have come out before. I don't believe that the government and media are conspiring to not let us know about these things.

Well, I do believe exactly that.
That the government is conspiring to keep certain facts from the American public to prevent panic and a widespread public response.

We seem to have honest differences of opinion.

72 posted on 02/18/2007 12:36:27 PM PST by Publius6961 (MSM: Israelis are killed by rockets; Lebanese are killed by Israelis.)
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To: dervish; garv
The guy was a Muslim alien. Is that who you want to give guns to? That was Giuliani's comment - that Ali Abu Kamal had circumvented a 90 day in country residency requirement.

Thanks for the poing garv.

Dervish, thanks for demonstrating the pro-Rudy people are as loopy as the anti-Rudy people.

No, I don't want to give firearms to Muslim aliens, or any other kind of alien.

I asked for information because it's my sense that shoud Mayor G truely become the Mayor of America, he'd use incidents like the Utah shooting to increase firearm regulation.

I've excerpted a bit from garv's link below, and I'm open to reading more.

Mayor of NYC Rudy says nothing about Muslim aliens, or aliens at all.

He contends that it wasn't a security issue, NYC apparently never having heard of metal detectors, rather Florida's fault. And he calls for stricter regulation. Without mention of aliens. I mention that again because I don't care if aliens are barred from purchasing firearms, let them become citizens and then the 2nd amendment will protect them.

From the little bit I've read, as someone who splits his time between Illinois and Wisconsin, I think Mayor of America Rudy would do the same thing as Mayor of Chicago Daley in the wake of the Utah incident. Use it to increase regulation.

73 posted on 02/18/2007 12:41:11 PM PST by SJackson (A vote is like a rifle, its usefulness depends upon the character of the user, T. Roosevelt)
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To: dervish; garv
The guy was a Muslim alien. Is that who you want to give guns to? That was Giuliani's comment - that Ali Abu Kamal had circumvented a 90 day in country residency requirement.

Thanks for the poing garv.

Dervish, thanks for demonstrating the pro-Rudy people are as loopy as the anti-Rudy people.

No, I don't want to give firearms to Muslim aliens, or any other kind of alien.

I asked for information because it's my sense that shoud Mayor G truely become the Mayor of America, he'd use incidents like the Utah shooting to increase firearm regulation.

I've excerpted a bit from garv's link below, and I'm open to reading more.

Mayor of NYC Rudy says nothing about Muslim aliens, or aliens at all.

He contends that it wasn't a security issue, NYC apparently never having heard of metal detectors, rather Florida's fault. And he calls for stricter regulation. Without mention of aliens. I mention that again because I don't care if aliens are barred from purchasing firearms, let them become citizens and then the 2nd amendment will protect them.

From the little bit I've read, as someone who splits his time between Illinois and Wisconsin, I think Mayor of America Rudy would do the same thing as Mayor of Chicago Daley in the wake of the Utah incident. Use it to increase regulation.

With Mrs. McCarthy at his side, the Mayor said the gunfire was not the fault of poor security at the landmark tower, or anything related to New York. Rather it could be blamed on a far-reaching national issue well beyond his jurisdiction.

The subject was no longer the possible damage to New York's image, but rather the difference between the rest of the country and New York, a city with strict gun laws that the Mayor said were partly responsible for the drop in crime here. The news conference also reminded voters of Mr. Giuliani's longstanding support for strong gun control legislation.

''The whole idea of the press conference was to bring this tragedy onto the national level,'' said Mrs. McCarthy, whose husband was killed in a 1993 shooting incident on the Long Island Rail Road. ''We can't stop the guns from coming into New York if we don't do it around the country, and that's what the Mayor and I have been saying for years.''

Colleen A. Roche, the Mayor's press secretary, said the Mayor had learned late Sunday night that the gun used in the shootings had been purchased legally in Florida, and had brought up the issue at the morning meeting.

''The Mayor was concerned about gun control issues, and determined that this was a case that cried out for stricter gun control,'' she said. ''After discussions this morning at the meeting, he had the staff reach out to Congresswoman McCarthy, and to other gun control advocates. A few calls were made, and advocates pretty much organized themselves to come. They have an extraordinary communications network.''


74 posted on 02/18/2007 12:41:29 PM PST by SJackson (A vote is like a rifle, its usefulness depends upon the character of the user, T. Roosevelt)
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To: sgtbono2002
This story is not much different from the one told of the Islamic killer last week who went Pschycho and killed all those people in the mall. I wonder if he got his virgins.

No it's not.

The question I raise, what would President Rudy's instinct be.

IMO, firearm bans.

75 posted on 02/18/2007 12:42:50 PM PST by SJackson (A vote is like a rifle, its usefulness depends upon the character of the user, T. Roosevelt)
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To: DocH
OBVIOUSLY, we don't want illegal aliens of ANY sort to obtain firearms, BUT...But no, gun-grabbing RINO-rudy used it as yet ANOTHER reason to push more Draconian gun-control...He would do the SAME EXACT THING if, GOD FORBID, he were to become president.

Exactly. It's my opinion that a politician who uses an incident like this, a crime, to restrict the rights of law abiding citizens in what to some sounds like logical fashion, is insincere. He simply wants firearms out of the hands of individuals. And that's fine. Skip the lawsuits, skip bans on ugly looking rifles, simply introduce an amendment repealing #2. Who knows, maybe he'll get elected on a less guns, less terror platform.

76 posted on 02/18/2007 12:46:46 PM PST by SJackson (A vote is like a rifle, its usefulness depends upon the character of the user, T. Roosevelt)
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To: peteram

Like the bosnian fellow in Utah. Our screaming media is full of and acts like a castrated one at that.


77 posted on 02/18/2007 12:49:24 PM PST by tillacum
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To: MizSterious

It will take years, and I'll probably be dead, before we hear the truth about a lot of the smaller attacks in this country.

Thanks so much for the ping to this, Miz. It confirms what so many of us have thought over the years and I'm so glad I didn't miss it. Thanks again and bump.


78 posted on 02/18/2007 12:49:44 PM PST by Peach (The Clintons pardoned more terrorists than they captured or killed.)
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To: Carry_Okie
The unorganized militia was the only force that took down a plane to end a terrorist threat on 9-11.

Exactly.

79 posted on 02/18/2007 12:51:01 PM PST by SJackson (A vote is like a rifle, its usefulness depends upon the character of the user, T. Roosevelt)
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To: sofaman
Yup...that's the most pressing threat this country faces...gun control...

It is a threat and on many levels. It takes away more personal freedom from law-abiding citizens and it also wastes government resources by going after imaginary crimes rather than focusing on real criminals. If the Clinton administration had spent half the effort going after terrorists it did going after "assault weapons" and the non-existent gunshow loophole, 9/11 might have been avoided. For ten years Canada has spent billions of dollars on a useless gun registry that has not helped to catch one criminal. I despair for my country in that the best the two parties might be able to do is offer Hillary and Rudy. The only faint hope I have is that Rudy might promote some conservative judges. Any time the government uses crime or terrorism as an excuse to take away citizens' rights while at the same time ignoring criminals and terrorists, yes, it is a big deal.

80 posted on 02/18/2007 12:55:48 PM PST by Wilhelm Tell (True or False? This is not a tag line.)
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To: faq

Yawn -- so what else is new.


81 posted on 02/18/2007 12:57:17 PM PST by Memphis Moe
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To: dervish; Sabramerican
"It's mind-boggling to most people that someone can come in from a foreign country on a visitor's visa and buy a gun in the United States, not just a gun but an automatic weapon, 14 rounds, where you can in four or five seconds get 14 bullets out.''

It's not an automatic weapon.

Though automatic weapons, aka machine guns, are perfectly legal. Get a permit, buy one. Federally, ten or so states ban them.

14 round magazine, sounds ominous, but you are in more danger from someone carrying a wheelgun who can place 5 or 6 shots.

Aliens purchasing firearms. While I recognize they will be able to purchase them illegally, that's just plain stupid. I'd support restricting firearms ownership for non-citizens for a period of years, one, five, whatever, come up with a bill.

But Rudy didn't propose that, he didn't focus on aliens, he focused on gunowners. Legal gunowners, not illegals.

82 posted on 02/18/2007 1:00:49 PM PST by SJackson (A vote is like a rifle, its usefulness depends upon the character of the user, T. Roosevelt)
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To: areafiftyone

I wanted to make sure you saw this and could send it around to your NY friends, areafiftyone.


83 posted on 02/18/2007 1:03:35 PM PST by Peach (The Clintons pardoned more terrorists than they captured or killed.)
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To: DBrow
And as for the timeline, yes, it would take several days to snail a real copy of the letter, but even way back in '97 we had technology that would let us send an image of the letter. The cops would not have sent the actual letter, they'd keep the original for forensics for months.

"Look at this letter we found on the body. Hurry up and send it to this FAX number in Gaza."

84 posted on 02/18/2007 1:09:20 PM PST by wideminded
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To: ConservaTexan

virgins


85 posted on 02/18/2007 1:11:24 PM PST by BJClinton (articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy)
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To: SJackson

You will see at the link that he very much proposed reasonable measures and not a ban on everyone.

In my opinion the criticism of Florida is very valid.

In his own words.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/records/rwg/html/97a/me970302.html

Unrestricted gun purchase is an impossibility in the practical World in which we live. Sad but true.


86 posted on 02/18/2007 1:14:20 PM PST by Sabramerican (Says the piano player: America's greatest legacy will be to create a Palestinian State)
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To: DocH; Txsleuth; Bahbah; AliVeritas; Contessa1; Neverforget01; defconw; cibco; Fudd Fan; All
I am sure that you see yourself on the "adult" side of the equation...and you proceeded, in your post, to give me nothing but the same tired old tripe that I've been reading from the same brainless ideologues, who don't have the intellect to explain their position, so they have to resort to insulting fellow FReepers and the candidate with whom they so vehemntly disagree.

"...let the adults...", "Rhino-rudy", "BLUEST-of-BLUE left-wing inner-city", "LIBERAL DEMOCRAT or LIBERAL INDEPENDENT"....

what a load of rubbish...

I, for one, will keep my powder dry and wait to decide whom I will support. The scorched-earth, all or nothing ideologues, in their zeal to destroy every candidate without a pristine record on gun control and abortion, will ensure a Democrat Congress and a Democrat in the WH.

That should make them absolutely ecstatic...they can go back to whining and complaining about all things societal while ignoring the enemies who are bent on destroying our great nation.

Not to mention that these "adults" will have, unwittingly, done far more to advance the Left's agenda, than the Left is capable of doing themselves.

87 posted on 02/18/2007 1:16:30 PM PST by sofaman ("The American people are tired of liars and people who pretend to be something they're not.")
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To: DocH

Only took 6 posts to turn this into an anti-Rudy thread. Nice work.

I don't support Rudy enough to argue for him, nor am I anti-Rudy enough to argue against him. But this is getting ridiculous.

Silly me for expecting more from FReepers.


88 posted on 02/18/2007 1:18:52 PM PST by Fudd Fan (MARK LEVIN: CHICKEN SOUP FOR CONSERVATIVE MINDS)
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To: Publius6961
Well, I do believe exactly that. That the government is conspiring to keep certain facts from the American public to prevent panic and a widespread public response.

"Three may keep a Secret, if two of them are dead." - Benjamin Franklin

89 posted on 02/18/2007 1:19:16 PM PST by wideminded
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To: DocH

Who are "the adults"? YOU?

ROFL!


90 posted on 02/18/2007 1:24:02 PM PST by Fudd Fan (MARK LEVIN: CHICKEN SOUP FOR CONSERVATIVE MINDS)
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To: Sabramerican
That's a better statement.

And thanks in part to our stricter gun control laws, crime is down dramatically in New York City. Shootings are down over 50 percent. Murder is down over 50 percent. But the fact is that 90 percent of the guns we take out of the hands of criminals in New York City come from out of the State of New York.

Living near Chicago, which did then has now stricter gun control laws than New York along with the accompanying higher murder rate, I don't buy it. He aggressively enforced the laws, which he deserves credit for. And of course I don't attribute the murder rate in Chicago to stricter laws. Though I think it argues in favor of law abiding citizens having the ability to protect themselves.

I'm OK with Rudy's proposal with corrections.

To purchase a gun in the State of New York you have to give your full name, your date of birth, your residence, your occupation . You have to prove that you're a United States citizen, you have to show you are of good character, competency and integrity. And you have to demonstrate a real need for the weapon.

Good grief, I don't want Rudy or Hillary or Hunter or McCain or anyone else ruling on my ability to own a firearm based on thier judgement of my good character, competency, or "real" need.

If that's his postition, then he needs to propose a 28th amendment.

This is a loser for Rudy, even Hillay's husband knows that. I doubt he'll be the one to bring it up during the campaign.

91 posted on 02/18/2007 1:26:53 PM PST by SJackson (A vote is like a rifle, its usefulness depends upon the character of the user, T. Roosevelt)
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To: wideminded

"Look at this letter we found on the body. We found his next-of-kin in Gaza, let's send it to them along with a list of his personal effects. We need to contact them anyway, and if we behave in a friendly way, we may learn something."


92 posted on 02/18/2007 1:32:58 PM PST by DBrow
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To: Sabramerican
I should note that while the sound great, driver's license references are bogus. There's no inherent right to own automobiles in the Constitution, though I suspect a creative lawyer could find on in the treatment of horse thieves.
93 posted on 02/18/2007 1:33:04 PM PST by SJackson (A vote is like a rifle, its usefulness depends upon the character of the user, T. Roosevelt)
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To: SJackson

"good character, competency and integrity"

Rules out those with a criminal record. Rules out the mentally challenged and the underage. Rules out suspected terrorists.

All legal words of art.

Boilerplate for those getting everything from a license to practice law to a license to cut hair.


94 posted on 02/18/2007 1:34:51 PM PST by Sabramerican (Says the piano player: America's greatest legacy will be to create a Palestinian State)
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To: SJackson

The entire Constitution would give the right to own an auto and do with it what you will.

There is a Constitutional prohibition against unreasonable searches and the idea that the Government of the United States could force innocent citizens wishing to travel intrastate to take off their shoes for inspection would be absurd to the Founders.

Yet we must live in the real World.


95 posted on 02/18/2007 1:41:09 PM PST by Sabramerican (Says the piano player: America's greatest legacy will be to create a Palestinian State)
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To: sofaman

There is not one single dem running for president who should be allowed anywhere near the White House.

All of this trashing of Republican candidates that some are interested in or looking at is ridiculous...not to mention tiresome.

The overall quality of people on our side is vastly superior to theirs and I intend to keep that in mind.


96 posted on 02/18/2007 1:47:49 PM PST by Bahbah (.Regev, Goldwasser & Shalit, we are praying for you.)
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To: MizSterious
Authorities will never admit that anything is a terrorist act until it reaches the point they simply can't lie about it any more.

And then they'll blame it on white American men (or Jooooos), forcing them to do it, because there was no other alternative.

97 posted on 02/18/2007 2:02:13 PM PST by mountn man (The pleasure you get from life, is equal to the attitude you put into it.)
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To: Sabramerican
Rules out those with a criminal record. Rules out the mentally challenged and the underage. Rules out suspected terrorists...All legal words of art...Boilerplate for those getting everything from a license to practice law to a license to cut hair.

Then that's what a candidate has to say. Criminal record, insane (I've occasionally posted on the lunacy of revoking gun rights for people who enter drug/alcohol rehab).

Illinois bars concealed carry. Chicago bars handguns. Through the art of legislation, law sounds too legal, alderman can not only own handguns, but carry them concealed. Something to do with upholding peace.

Two shockers.

I'm told concealed carry permits are difficult to obtain in San Francisco. But when there's a need, along with good character, competency and integrity, of all people to carry a concealed weapon.

"Because less than twenty years ago I was the target of a terrorist group...I know the sense of helplessness that people feel. I know the urge to arm yourself because that's what I did. I was trained in firearms...I carried a concealed weapon. I made the determination that if somebody was going to try to take me out, I was going to take them with me."
Senator Dianne Feinstein

Not certain, but I believe she's referencing the Harvey Milk act of terrorism.

Barbara Boxer has a concealed carry permit. I believe her husband was hospitalized in a "bad" neighborhood once. She needed it and kept it.

Needless to say, I don't have the "good character, competency and integrity" of Barbara Boxer, Dianne Feinstein or a Chicago alderman.

Rudy has some explaining to do on this and other social issues to get my support. Though i admit it may not matter. Leadership skills, he's the best in the field thus far.

A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."
-- Sigmund Freud, General Introduction to Psychoanlysis (1952)

98 posted on 02/18/2007 2:07:53 PM PST by SJackson (A vote is like a rifle, its usefulness depends upon the character of the user, T. Roosevelt)
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To: Sabramerican
There is a Constitutional prohibition against unreasonable searches and the idea that the Government of the United States could force innocent citizens wishing to travel intrastate to take off their shoes for inspection would be absurd to the Founders.

Not as absurd as taking my cowboy hat off to get through airport security. It's enough to make me wear a burka on top.

99 posted on 02/18/2007 2:08:58 PM PST by SJackson (A vote is like a rifle, its usefulness depends upon the character of the user, T. Roosevelt)
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To: Rodney King; Lancey Howard
The problem is, you can't believe a word half of these people say.

That sums it up nicely.

Not to be nit picky, but I think the ratio is WAAAAAAY out of whack.

To say that you couldn't trust 1/10th the words that 1/10th of these people say, would still be too much credit for their truth telling.

100 posted on 02/18/2007 2:09:18 PM PST by mountn man (The pleasure you get from life, is equal to the attitude you put into it.)
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