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The Sun Sets in the West (Buchanan alert)
Townhall.com ^ | 2/23/07 | Patsy Buchanan

Posted on 02/23/2007 1:29:08 PM PST by pissant

Forty thousand marched in beside the Americans. Only 7,100 remain; 1,600 will be heading home by Easter.

By August, the Danish force of 470 is to be withdrawn, as is the tiny Lithuanian unit. South Korea has 2,200 troops in the Kurdish north. Though they rarely leave base, 1,100 are to depart by August, the rest by year's end.

The Italians are gone. The Spanish pulled out after the Madrid bombings. Ukraine's 1,600 have departed. The Japanese have gone. Declaring the war "unjust and wrong," Slovakia's new prime minister just ordered home his country's contingent of 110 engineers.

Only the Americans are going deeper in. Aussies excepted, the "coalition of the willing" is no longer willing.

In Afghanistan, Americans, and Brits, Canadians and Dutch fight, as Germans, French and Italians do "reconstruction." In World War I, France, Italy and Germany lost 4 million men. In Afghanistan and Iraq, the three together have probably not lost 50.

Prime Minister Romano Prodi resigned Wednesday, when his plan to stay in Afghanistan and enlarge a U.S. base in Italy, lest refusal be seen as "a hostile act toward the U.S.A.," was rejected in the Senate.

Vice President Cheney hails Tony Blair's announced withdrawal of British troops as a sign of success. Yet, he says the Pelosi-Murtha plan to withdraw U.S. troops would only "validate the al-Qaida strategy."

The White House says the British pullout is an affirmation of our partnership, but the Brits could have sent those 1,600 to Baghdad or Anbar. They did not.

The Brits are leaving with mission unaccomplished. They are being shot at and mortared every day in Basra. Tribal and Shia militias have not been disarmed. The Sunni are being ethnically cleansed from the south. Militant Shia want the Brits gone, so they can take over.

The British people are bridling at the cost in blood and money of a war that destroyed Tony Blair, who is weeks away from resigning as prime minister. One British historian said at year's end he has never such levels of anti-Americanism in his country.

There is a larger meaning to all this, and Americans must come to terms with it. NATO is packing it in as a world power. NATO is little more than a U.S. guarantee to pull Europe's chestnuts out of the fire if Europeans encounter a fight they cannot handle, like an insurgency in Bosnia or Kosovo. NATO has one breadwinner, and 25 dependents.

At the end of the Cold War, internationalists like Sen. Richard Lugar of Indiana declared, "NATO must go out of area, or go out of business." What Lugar meant was, with the Soviet threat lifted from Europe, NATO must shoulder more of the global burden.

But the Balkan crises of the 1990s showed that Europeans are not even up to policing their own playground. The Americans had to come in, gently push them aside and do the job. The message Europe is today sending to America, with the withdrawals from Iraq and the refusal of Italy, Germany and France to fight in Afghanistan:

"We are not going out of area again. If you Americans want to play empire, go right ahead. We will not again send our sons overseas to fight in regions of the world from which we withdrew half a century ago. You're on your own."

Where does this leave NATO? This leaves NATO as little more than a U.S. guarantee to go to war for the nations of Europe, while Europeans can be freeloading critics of U.S. policy around the world.

NATO is an expensive proposition. We maintain dozens of bases and scores of thousands of troops from Norway to the Balkans, from Spain to the Baltic republics, from the Black Sea to the Irish Sea.

What do we get for this? Why do we tax ourselves to defend rich nations who refuse to defend themselves? Is the security of Europe more important to us than to Europe?

In the early years of World Wars I and II, Europeans implored us to come save them from the Germans. We did. In the early Cold War, Europeans welcomed returning GIs who stood guard in the Fulda Gap.

Now, with the threat gone, the gratitude is gone. Now, with their welfare states eating up their wealth, their peoples aging, their cities filling up with militant migrants, they want America to continue defending them, as they sit in moral judgment on how we go about it.

This isn't an alliance. This isn't a partnership. Time to split the blanket. If they won't defend themselves, let them, as weaker nations have done to stronger states down through the ages.

Sixty years after World War II, 15 years after the Cold War, Europe's defense should become Europe's responsibility.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: buchanan; dipstick; patbuchanan
Patsy, your defeatism is as old and tired as Helen Thomas' bra.

You bemoan the europeans lack of help to a war that you have done your level best to talk them and us from waging. You are an idiot

1 posted on 02/23/2007 1:29:10 PM PST by pissant
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To: pissant

100% correct pissant.


2 posted on 02/23/2007 1:31:58 PM PST by jveritas (Support The Commander in Chief in Times of War)
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To: pissant

Pat's well documented absurdity aside, what particular part of this article do you disagree with? I understand disagreeing with Buchanan on a philosophica level, and in many cases I do. I just don't see where he's wrong in this particular case.


3 posted on 02/23/2007 1:38:07 PM PST by Steel Wolf (As Ibn Warraq said, "There are moderate Muslims but there is no moderate Islam.")
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To: pissant

Pat, you sound like you can't wait for America to fail, and for our government to perhaps collapse.

Wise up ya dope, you could even set the Congress on fire, but Americans are not going to elect you as Chancellor.

So take off that little fake mustache and stop stomping your boots around the house.


4 posted on 02/23/2007 1:38:08 PM PST by mkjessup (If Reagan were still with us, he'd ask us to "win one more for the Gipper, vote for Duncan Hunter!")
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To: pissant

Nope, sorry, there's a lot of truth in what Pat says.

Europe is becoming a godless, amoral, materialist economic zone that bears little resemblance to the ally we remember. And, demographically speaking, it is disappearing.

Mark Steyn has it right when he says it's "America Alone."


5 posted on 02/23/2007 1:38:16 PM PST by Elpasser
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To: Elpasser
I think you're exactly right. This passage here sums it up nicely.

In the early years of World Wars I and II, Europeans implored us to come save them from the Germans. We did. In the early Cold War, Europeans welcomed returning GIs who stood guard in the Fulda Gap. Now, with the threat gone, the gratitude is gone. Now, with their welfare states eating up their wealth, their peoples aging, their cities filling up with militant migrants, they want America to continue defending them, as they sit in moral judgment on how we go about it.

6 posted on 02/23/2007 1:39:49 PM PST by Steel Wolf (As Ibn Warraq said, "There are moderate Muslims but there is no moderate Islam.")
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To: Steel Wolf

"...as they sit in moral judgment on how we go about it."

I do find it preposterous that Europeans actually believe they are somehow morally superior to us. Exactly what moral basis would that be...?


7 posted on 02/23/2007 1:43:39 PM PST by Elpasser
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To: pissant

Screw 'em.
What part of "America alone" don't they get?
It's just us, boys and girls--so get over it.


8 posted on 02/23/2007 1:46:38 PM PST by Flintlock (Keep yer powder dry--yer gonna need it.)
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To: pissant

You may not like Pat, which is painfully obvious and somewhat of past time here on FR, but I don't know how you can argue with much of what he is saying in this article. I don't think is calling for or anticipating the defeat of America. What he is doing is calling out Europe for what it is, an old, tired, weak continent populated by people more interested in sucking on the government teat than defending their way of life. With the exception of the airbase and hospital in Germany I would bring all our troops home from Europe and let them learn to kiss the feet of their soon to be Muslim masters. And when they cry for us to come back and again pull the butt from the fire we should tell them you made your sharia bed, put on your burka and lay in it.


9 posted on 02/23/2007 1:51:38 PM PST by redangus
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To: pissant
It won't be the first, or the last, time that America has had to the lion's share of the heavy lifting. The Bible assures us that of those who have much, much will be required.

It would be great if the world's other 'powers' would rise to the occasion and help defeat the Islamofascists, but there unwillingness, or inability, to do so can't deter us from doing what has to be done.

None of this should come as any surprise to any of us who were around for WWII. The threat of Hitler and Nazi Germany was even more apparent than today's threat presented by the ROP but they behaved the same way then.

And we should brace ourselves for the 'shock' when these same countries expect us to pull their butts out of the fire when their blind devotion to multiculturalism leads to the outcome that is always the fate of those who appease.

I think the thing that bothers me the most about all this that so many Americans have let the Euroweenies convince us that have something to apologize for, or that what we are seeing around the world as the players give into the Islamofascists, is somehow our fault. It's going to get a whole lot worse before it gets any better.

For whatever reason God has seen fit to put 21st century America in the position of being the last hope of putting a stop to this madness. I can only thank Him, day and night, that He has not turned His back on us and left us to our own devices. I can't help but think there simply has to be a limit to His patience with us and we're getting pretty close to that limit.

God bless America and the millions of it citizens who still believe our very existence is a gift from Him. And even greater blessings for those who put their lives on the line every day to keep us free. I can't help but think of that great photo that came along from Iraq a year or so back that showed the ring of a dozen or more troops in a prayer circle, holding hands and arms around each other, praying for His blessings and protection. For everyone of those brave souls there are families and loved ones who have to keep the home fires burning until they return. Words cannot begin to express the contempt I have for the 'leaders' of our country who think so little of these fighting forces and their families as to be able to speak words that give aid and comfort to those who would deprive us of our very way of life.

Sigh.
10 posted on 02/23/2007 1:51:42 PM PST by jwparkerjr
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To: pissant

I think perhaps that Buchanan is taking te blame for a defeatism that is soundly rooted in European foreign and domastic policy...Why should we be indebting our childrens' children for the defense of an ungrateful continent? Why should we do so to prop up a UN that has served as a bastion of anti-Americanism for decades?

Sometimes our national policies resemble the personal life of an NBA star who, having succeeeded professionally, doesn't have the sense to rid himself of the lowlife gang members who glom onto him.


11 posted on 02/23/2007 1:55:57 PM PST by Old_Mil (http://www.gohunter08.com/)
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To: Steel Wolf

For starters, he give no credit to the countries that have already extended deployments in the past, or have recently sent troops or extended deployments. Those include more countries than the ones that are drawing down, including such stalwarts as the Aussies and the Poles. He ignored what Tony blair said about the drawdown, that they have achieved stability in the area and can start drawing down. Instead he paints a picture of British troops under attack "daily". He does not give the Brits any credit for the crackdown they initaited last year when violence was flaring in their sector.

He gives short shrift to the stellar work NATO has been doing in Afghanistan. Didn't bother to mention that the Poles are sending in elite forces there now to FIGHT. Doesn't mention that UAE has forces in Afghanistan, or that Jordan is continuing to train Iraqi police and security.

Doesn't mention that the eastern euros have stood and continue to stand with us. Or that we are going to put anti missile batteries and bases there.

He prattles on about this BS about America being an empire.

And he give no hint on the importance of the mission, and has defeating terrorists.

Other than that its fine.


12 posted on 02/23/2007 1:59:03 PM PST by pissant (http://www.gohunter08.com/)
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To: Elpasser

He is mocking America more than the europeans in this article. He thinks its a fools errand. He is the fool.


13 posted on 02/23/2007 1:59:58 PM PST by pissant (http://www.gohunter08.com/)
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To: redangus

He has been anticipating American defeat and frankly, cheering it on in both Afghanistan and Iraq for as long as I can remember.


14 posted on 02/23/2007 2:02:42 PM PST by pissant (http://www.gohunter08.com/)
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To: redangus

I completely agree with the comment by Redangus.


15 posted on 02/23/2007 2:04:16 PM PST by Malesherbes
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To: pissant

He's right about NATO. The alliance had its day and the defense of Europe should be up to the Europeans. They should be capable of handling a situation like Bosnia or Kosovo.

And if they had to focus on defending themselves, they'd have less time to bitch, whine and complain about everything the US is doing. Or not doing, as the case may be.

The US can negotiate agreements for bases with individual countries as necessary.


16 posted on 02/23/2007 2:04:50 PM PST by nyc1
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To: redangus

The Brits fought fantastically in the Iraq war and are still doing so in Afghanistan. They have pacified their sector, which never had the same level of violence as ours in Iraq. Several eastern european countries are still standing firm. The Poles are sending elite forces to Afghanistan. Eastern Europe is coalescing around the US and we are boxing a very untrustworthy Russia in.

No, the europeans do not carry their weight in NATO all the time, but they have perfomed admirably, not to mention that WE have basing rights in many of their countries.

Does America do most of the heavy lifting? Yes, always has, always will.


17 posted on 02/23/2007 2:10:58 PM PST by pissant (http://www.gohunter08.com/)
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To: pissant
The White House says the British pullout is an affirmation of our partnership, but the Brits could have sent those 1,600 to Baghdad or Anbar. They did not. The Brits are leaving with mission unaccomplished. They are being shot at and mortared every day in Basra. Tribal and Shia militias have not been disarmed. The Sunni are being ethnically cleansed from the south. Militant Shia want the Brits gone, so they can take over

Hard to find fault with these comments

18 posted on 02/23/2007 2:12:15 PM PST by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: redangus

"What he is doing is calling out Europe for what it is, an old, tired, weak continent populated by people more interested in sucking on the government teat than defending their way of life. With the exception of the airbase and hospital in Germany I would bring all our troops home from Europe and let them learn to kiss the feet of their soon to be Muslim masters. And when they cry for us to come back and again pull the butt from the fire we should tell them you made your sharia bed, put on your burka and lay in it."


I absolutely agree with you. I would have closed down ALL euro peon bases about 5 years ago. It would definitely hurt their economies and send a well deserved message.


19 posted on 02/23/2007 2:12:38 PM PST by Plateau
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To: paul51

He paints a false picture of the South in Iraq.


20 posted on 02/23/2007 2:14:32 PM PST by pissant (http://www.gohunter08.com/)
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To: pissant
The White House says the British pullout is an affirmation of our partnership, but the Brits could have sent those 1,600 to Baghdad or Anbar. They did not.

We swapped jobs with the British a while ago because we were better equipped to handle the hot spots, and the coordination needed to mix troops wasn't worth the effort.

21 posted on 02/23/2007 2:16:09 PM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: pissant

For the most part, Pat's been right all along. Except here he fails to stress also kicking the UN out of NYC.


22 posted on 02/23/2007 2:17:21 PM PST by duckln
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To: duckln

Only if you are a defeatist or a pcifist.


23 posted on 02/23/2007 2:18:26 PM PST by pissant (http://www.gohunter08.com/)
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To: pissant

With the exception of the Brits and a few others who have sent token forces, the euro peons are a joke. They go where the fighting is minimal and if they take a couple of casualties its "Hit The Road Jack". Been ticked off at the euro peons for some time and glad some others feel the same way.


24 posted on 02/23/2007 2:22:42 PM PST by Plateau
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To: pissant
Only the Americans are going deeper in. Aussies excepted, the "coalition of the willing" is no longer willing.

Crank till you throw a piston, pissant: there's no disputing this point.

25 posted on 02/23/2007 2:24:23 PM PST by Map Kernow ("I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just..." ---Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Plateau

I hope this does not happen. Can you imagine the entire Europe area Muslim. Now we would have Middle East, Europe, some African countries and some Asian countries and we would have to defend ourselves from all of them??? Do you really want that? I am not saying we could not win, but is that really necessary just because some are not liking Europe right now. I am stationed here and the people here appreciate our being here.


26 posted on 02/23/2007 2:26:48 PM PST by napscoordinator
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To: pissant
For starters, he give no credit to the countries that have already extended deployments in the past, or have recently sent troops or extended deployments. Those include more countries than the ones that are drawing down, including such stalwarts as the Aussies and the Poles.

He did mention the Aussies, actually, but they're by far the minority, as far as holding firm.

He ignored what Tony blair said about the drawdown, that they have achieved stability in the area and can start drawing down.

He gives short shrift to the stellar work NATO has been doing in Afghanistan. Didn't bother to mention that the Poles are sending in elite forces there now to FIGHT. Doesn't mention that UAE has forces in Afghanistan, or that Jordan is continuing to train Iraqi police and security.

Stellar? I have friends in Afghanistan. The situation is not stellar, and NATO is not stellar. Some, like the Poles, are exceptionally good. Again, they're in the minority.

Doesn't mention that the eastern euros have stood and continue to stand with us. Or that we are going to put anti missile batteries and bases there.

Well, if al-Qa'ida ever gets an ICBM, then that will help. Otherwise, those bases are to cow the Russians, and the Eastern Euros are acting in their own self interest.

He prattles on about this BS about America being an empire.

He has in the past, to great and idiotic extent. Not seeing it here, except in a non-attributed quote.

And he give no hint on the importance of the mission, and has defeating terrorists.

So if he had started out by saying "It's a shame, given the importance of the mission, that our allies are jumping ship left and right.", you'd be more comfortable with his points, otherwise?

27 posted on 02/23/2007 2:32:42 PM PST by Steel Wolf (As Ibn Warraq said, "There are moderate Muslims but there is no moderate Islam.")
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To: Elpasser

I agree with you and Pat 100%.


28 posted on 02/23/2007 2:32:50 PM PST by moondoggie
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To: napscoordinator

With all due respect, having bases in Europe doesn't seem to have stopped the flood of Muslims into Europe. Before I say anything else, thank you for your service! I am sure there are some people in Europe who detest the thought of an Islamic Europe but, like here, the politicians do not do the will of the people (ie Illegal Immigration). What are the Europeans saying about Kosovo now?


29 posted on 02/23/2007 2:33:14 PM PST by Plateau
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To: pissant
Shut up, Pat:

More UK soldiers for Afghanistan

Someone ought to publicly humiliate the blighter for the idiocy he's spouting.

Ivan

30 posted on 02/23/2007 2:35:01 PM PST by MadIvan (I aim to misbehave.)
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To: pissant
OK. Let's focus on this part of the comments.

--The White House says the British pullout is an affirmation of our partnership, but the Brits could have sent those 1,600 to Baghdad or Anbar. They did not--

31 posted on 02/23/2007 2:40:47 PM PST by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: Map Kernow
Except Pat is completely forgetting our Eastern European Allies who continue to send what they are able and, in the case of Poland, adding to their forces in Afghanistan and Iraq; of course they don't count because they're not Germany, France, or Italy.
32 posted on 02/23/2007 2:42:04 PM PST by Namyak (Oderint dum metuant)
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To: Plateau

They don't mention Kosovo. I just wish that Europe didn't have these idiots in their governments. I think to be honest with you is what makes Europe look bad and of course allow policies that make it nice for muslims. I definitely think that is ashame. I just see the people who work really hard at trying to make a living...would most likely be conservative Republicans in the United States IMHO. I will admit to you that I am stationed in Sicily which is definitely pro-American. I would put them in the same level as Upper New York State, Southern Virginia, or panhandle of Florida, but they are stuck with "Italy" as their government. Thank you for the nice words on my service. I really love it and will look forward to getting to Iraq (not exactly sure when I am going...truth!) and kick some major buttocks (would use other words but I am being nice today. lol).


33 posted on 02/23/2007 2:43:57 PM PST by napscoordinator
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To: Namyak

I think it is pretty obvious that eastern europe wants us much more badly than western europe. I forsee some shifting alliances in the not-so-distant future.


34 posted on 02/23/2007 2:45:09 PM PST by Plateau
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To: napscoordinator

I didn't know that the Italian government was so far gone until I read about Prodi's resignation! I didn't know you could move any further to the left! I think many European countries made a fatal error when they chose "cradle to grave" socialism. I think some of the governments are just plain broke. The don't have the money to send troops and they cover up by saying that America is Bad. It is hard to stop a landslide (socialism) when it starts and it is hard to stop a bureauacracy that is entrenched.


35 posted on 02/23/2007 2:56:57 PM PST by Plateau
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To: Plateau
Very true. Eastern Europe actually appreciates what the US did for them during the Cold War; after all, it was Poland and the rest that suffered under the Soviet yoke. Eastern Europe appreciates the cost of freedom and is willing to fight to bring it to others, while much of Western Europe has taken their freedom for granted and values it too little. I see Western Europe continuing to fall into diplomatic irrelevancy as new alliances between the Anglo-sphere countries and Eastern Europe are formed and nurtured.
36 posted on 02/23/2007 3:02:03 PM PST by Namyak (Oderint dum metuant)
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To: Plateau

You are so right on every point. We saw what happened in France when they tried to take some security in jobs to a bunch of young kids. They went nuts. lol. I hope our country does not get that bad. You should see how much vacation time they receive. They don't work from 1-4 everyday because of "siesta" time. It is really a good deal if you have a job.....and that is a big if. It would never work for the U.S. Can you imagine everything closing from 1-4???? Americans would have a corinary. lol. There work hours are from 9-1 and 4-8. They can't work over 40 hours and if there is a holiday, they automatically get the next day off for rest day. Maternity leave is six months. Vacation time is six weeks a year. That is one area where I wish America would do is give a bit more vacation time. But other than that I don't think anything else would work for us.


37 posted on 02/23/2007 3:04:02 PM PST by napscoordinator
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To: napscoordinator
Can you imagine the entire Europe area Muslim

That will be an issue settled by European immigration laws and demographics, not NATO or the United Nations.
38 posted on 02/23/2007 4:59:42 PM PST by Old_Mil (http://www.gohunter08.com/)
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To: pissant

Good grief, they're going home because the damn war is over. We won.


39 posted on 03/03/2007 6:57:56 PM PST by Tailgunner Joe
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