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National Geographic: Melting Mars Means Man-Made Global Warming a Myth
NewsBusters, National Geographic ^ | 3/1/2007 | Noel Sheppard

Posted on 03/01/2007 8:43:13 AM PST by AT7Saluki

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To: ancient_geezer

I wish I knew graphics better. But the price of gold versus global temperature and sunspot cycles is interesting!!??


151 posted on 03/01/2007 9:49:07 PM PST by geopyg (Don't wish for peace, pray for Victory.)
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To: vigilante2
no doubt Mars was once a Republican planet inhabited by conservatives driving SUV's

A "red planet," if you will.

152 posted on 03/01/2007 11:04:22 PM PST by Tex_GOP_Cruz
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To: ancient_geezer
You are aware that d18O is more a proxy for preciptation rates and the hydrological cycle than it is a proxy for temperature aren't you?

Depends on location. d18O is a good proxy for global temperatures for polar ice cores. d180 in sediments is more complex (same for 13C/12C).

153 posted on 03/02/2007 6:47:04 AM PST by cogitator
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To: Ditto
Is the chart globally? Is it a norm for some part of the British Isles? Is it for London?

It's based on National Climate Data Center data (NOAA). There are a lot of "versions" of this graph. It's global.

154 posted on 03/02/2007 7:00:55 AM PST by cogitator
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To: AT7Saluki

All you need to know on GW in 30 seconds:

1) GW may or may not be occurring - the data and its interpretation is suspect.

2) The earth warms and cools all by itself on a scale more significant that anything attributable to man.

3) It is arrogant to think we can do anything about it.


155 posted on 03/02/2007 8:34:04 AM PST by NY.SS-Bar9 (DR #1692)
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To: cogitator

Depends on location. d18O is a good proxy for global temperatures for polar ice cores. d180 in sediments is more complex (same for 13C/12C).

Not even even in ice cores is the relationship by any means a "good" proxy for anything other than a final byproduct of the history of cloud formation. It has the same problems no matter the matrix in which it finally is deposited.

What is clear is d18O can only represent conditions (to such degree as it might) of the atmosphere through which it has passed. The altitude & place the water vapor condensed to form droplets and ice particles forming clouds and is very dependant upon the precise history of the formation of the precipitation and number of times the ice/rain has gone through the vapor/liquid phase to its final state and the route it takes to get to its final resting place in the glacier. The correspondence to any specific temperature and place is very uncertain being a process primarily of the high atmosphere in which the precipitation formed which, depending on meteorological factors, could be anywhere at the altitudes over the oceans where water vapor precipitates in its evolution in the formation of clouds.

The Summit Ice Cores (GISP2 and GRIP
http://www.agu.org/revgeophys/mayews01/node2.html#SECTION00020000000000000000

The similarity (discussed below) of the GISP2 and GRIP records is compelling evidence that the stratigraphy of the ice is reliable and unaffected by extensive folding, intrusion, or hiatuses from the surface to 2790 m (~110,000 years ago). This agreement (between the two cores separated by 30 km, ~10 ice thicknesses) provides strong support of climatic origin for even the minor features of the records and implies that investigations of subtle environmental signals (e.g., rapid climate change events with 1-2 year onset and termination) can be rigorously pursued.

The d18O of ice has classically provided the basic stratigraphy and paleoclimatology of ice cores. Ice originates by evaporation of sea water. As an air mass travels away from the site of evaporation towards higher latitudes, it cools and is able to hold less water. Water is lost from the air mass as precipitation (rain or snow). When liquid and gaseous H2O interact, the heavy isotope of O (d18O, 0.2% natural abundance) is depleted in the gas phase relative to the light, major isotope (d18O, 99.8% natural abundance). Along the flow path of the air mass, residual gas becomes progressively more depleted in d18O as temperature becomes colder and more and more of the original H2O content is lost as precipitation. The d18O value is determined from:

where subscript s refers to sample, std refers to standard mean ocean water (SMOW), and is parts per thousand.

Independent calibrations of the oxygen isotope-temperature relationship have been developed through the analysis of GISP2 borehole temperature, allowing conversion of isotope-derived surface-temperature histories to temperature-depth profiles [ Cuffey et al., 1992]. Thus it follows that variations with depth in the d18O of ice in a core reflect past variations of temperature with time at a study site. Changes in moisture sources feeding central Greenland may provide additional complications in the interpretation of the record [ Charles et al., 1994]. Grootes et al. [1993] measured the d18O of ice in the GISP2 core and compared their record with the previously published record for GRIP [ Dansgaard et al., 1993]. Down to a depth of 2790 m in GISP2 (corresponding to an age of about 110 kyr BP (kyr before present, where present is AD1950)), the GISP2 and GRIP records are nearly identical in general shape and in most of the details.


156 posted on 03/02/2007 8:53:30 AM PST by ancient_geezer (Don't reform it, Replace it.)
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To: cogitator
d18O vs temperature coefficients of ice cores can change tremendously depending on site, site meteorological history and many factors and ranges from a postive correlation with temperature to the other extreme of negative correlations with temperature.

d18O is by no mean the stable benchmark relationship to temperature that many ice core reports try to treat it as.

 

Stable Isotopic Variations in Precipitation and Moisture Transport on the Tibetan Plateau
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2004AGUFM.C43D..06T

Abstract

Stable isotopic ratios in precipitation from the Network of Isotope in Precipitation on the Tibetan Plateau are discussed. A decade of continuous observation shows that stable isotopes in precipitation on the northern Tibetan Plateau (TP) are controlled by air temperature. A regression of the annual datasets for the Delingha location (northeast Tibetan Plateau) shows a close relationship (d 18O=0.638T-13.31, R2=0.58) between d 18O in precipitation and air temperature. Along the southern Tibetan Plateau, the monsoon dominates the temporal and spatial variation of d 18O in precipitation such that summer precipitation is characterized by very low (depleted) d 18O values. A comparison of the temporal variation of d 18O at different stations on the TP also reveals the strong monsoonal influence. The results from our observations of present precipitation agree quite well with the results from shallow ice core records. At two northern sites, the Dunde and Muztagata ice core d 18O records show comparable variation with air temperatures from a nearby meteorological station. The d 18O record from Dasuopu, along the southern margin of the TP, shows a negative relation with the precipitation record from a nearby meteorological station. The spatial and seasonal variations of stable isotopes in precipitation on the TP show the apparent impact of different air masses. The spatial variation patterns of the stable isotopes in precipitation on the Tibetan Plateau show the northern extent of the southwest monsoon. The seasonal variation of moisture sources results in the large seasonal fluctuation of isotopic ratios and high d-excess in precipitation on the southern slope of the Himalayas. The spatial variations of stable isotopes also reveal the impact of the southwest monsoon and westerly transport.


157 posted on 03/02/2007 9:51:18 AM PST by ancient_geezer (Don't reform it, Replace it.)
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Global Warming Happens


It happened 11,000 years ago.
That's why we can sail the Great Lakes.

158 posted on 03/02/2007 8:21:53 PM PST by syriacus (If Al Gore's friends misplace a decimal point and cool the Earth too much, we're doomed.)
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To: AT7Saluki

Must be all those Martians driving their SUVs... or maybe the Martian politicians with their giant mansions and constant air travel.


159 posted on 03/03/2007 8:03:04 PM PST by steve-b (It's hard to be religious when certain people don't get struck by lightning.)
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