Judge rules public schools have right to teach charges whatever they deem appropriate

Jewish World Review ^ | 3-5-07 | Jeff Jacoby

[stm]

Ann has a very thick coat of armor. I doubt there is a lib that can really get to her.

[stevie_d_64]

You got that right...

[tutstar]

That comment will surely be noticed by the proponents of government education. Stand by...

[tutstar]

ping...
can't recall which one is doing hs pings...

[Aquinasfan]

Everywhere I go people are interested.

That's good to hear.

It's going to be tough to wean people off the free babysitting though. And people who have been through school have had beaten into their heads the notion that only trained professionals can teach. And then there's the $64k question, "What about socialization?" These are all enormous mental roadblocks that stop thought dead in its tracks.

OTOH, there is the example of homeschooled children, which is powerful. Maybe you're right. Maybe we will reach the tipping point when people ask, "can all these good kids from homeschooled families be a coincidence?"

[redgolum]

The problem is without a college degree, you and pretty much limiting yourself in a career. Heck, most seminaries require and undergrad degree.

[Aquinasfan]

He's just quoting Brown v. Hot, Sexy and Safer Productions, the relevant 1st Circuit precedent

For anyone not acquainted with the jr. high school presentation, check this link to the court case. It was even worse than it sounds.

The plaintiffs' complaint alleges the following facts, which we take as true for purposes of this appeal. On April 8, 1992, Mesiti and Silva attended a mandatory, school-wide "assembly" at Chelmsford High School. Both students were fifteen years old at the time. The assembly consisted of a ninety-minute presentation characterized by the defendants as an AIDS awareness program (the "Program"). The Program was staged by defendant Suzi Landolphi ("Landolphi"), contracting through defendant Hot, Sexy, and Safer, Inc., a corporation wholly owned by Landolphi.

Plaintiffs allege that Landolphi gave sexually explicit monologues and participated in sexually suggestive skits with several minors chosen from the audience. Specifically, the complaint alleges that Landolphi:

1) told the students that they were going to have a "group sexual experience, with audience participation";

2) used profane, lewd, and lascivious language to describe body parts and excretory functions;

3) advocated and approved oral sex, masturbation, homosexual sexual activity, and condom use during promiscuous premarital sex;

4) simulated masturbation;

5) characterized the loose pants worn by one minor as "erection wear";

6) referred to being in "deep sh--" after anal sex;

7) had a male minor lick an oversized condom with her, after which she had a female minor pull it over the male minor's entire head and blow it up;

8) encouraged a male minor to display his "orgasm face" with her for the camera;

9) informed a male minor that he was not having enough orgasms;

10) closely inspected a minor and told him he had a "nice butt"; and

11) made eighteen references to orgasms, six references to male genitals, and eight references to female genitals.

Plaintiffs maintain that the sexually explicit nature of Landolphi's speech and behavior humiliated and intimidated Mesiti and Silva. Moreover, many students copied Landolphi's routines and generally displayed overtly sexual behavior in the weeks following the Program, allegedly exacerbating the minors' harassment.

The parents lost this Massachusetts case, 13 years ago. This judge's ruling is only recognizing the status quo.

[Aquinasfan]

The problem is without a college degree, you are pretty much limiting yourself in a career.

Depends on the field. A certificate is mandatory in some fields, somewhat necessary in others, and not necessary at all in some. (But with hard work, it's still possible to work your way up from the bottom in many companies. I work with people who have.) This fact has to be balanced against the lifetime of intellectual and moral damage that is usually inflicted by a college education.

On top of that, you have to add in the cost of a college education, plus the loss of four years of earnings, plus interest. There is a correlation between a college degree and lifetime earnings, but it's not necessarily a causal relationship.

[redgolum]

I guess I was thinking of technical fields, like engineering. You can't really get around the need for a B.S. degree to be an engineer.

And, with today being what it is, you can expect not to be at the same company for ever. Working up for the bottom is possible (my friend is now the production manager at a fire truck plant that way) but if you get laid off or move, you have a hard time.

For most degrees, though, you are correct. A liberal arts degree is not with the paper it is printed on.

[Campion]

"Under the Constitution public schools are entitled to teach anything that is reasonably related to the goals of preparing students to become engaged and productive citizens in our democracy."

This passage of the Constitution is presumably right next to the section which establishes the "penumbras and emanations" which make abortion a constitutional right.

Funny how the "right of privacy" prohibits the Government from interfering with a mother's desire to kill her child, but no such "right of privacy" prohibits the Government from poisoning the child's mind, over the objections of her parents, once said child is born.

We've arrived at the point where the law is whatever judges say it is. "Liberty and justice for all" is on life-support, if not already dead.

[Campion]

That's not how the U.S. Constitution operates. You have things exactly backwards. As long as the U.S. Constitution doesn't *forbid* it, the states can do whatever they want, including run schools. See the 10th Amendment

Ever heard of the Incorporation Doctrine? Why do you think the Federal Courts rule, e.g., that prayer in public schools is not permitted?

[Aquinasfan]

I guess I was thinking of technical fields, like engineering. You can't really get around the need for a B.S. degree to be an engineer.

True. I have an ME degree, but I never worked as one. I remember attempting the PE exam and got blown out of the water.

But instead of degrees, why couldn't people take ME exams, or EE exams? They could be very extensive, day-long affairs.

Sure, there would be an incentive to beat the system. But colleges are "beating the system" now when they award students phony or weak engineering degrees.

On the other hand, a working guy could study at night for his engineering degree. He'd have to be a much more sober individual than I was at that age (pun intended), but he'd have an incentive to be.

[Aquinasfan]

Funny how the "right of privacy" prohibits the Government from interfering with a mother's desire to kill her child, but no such "right of privacy" prohibits the Government from poisoning the child's mind, over the objections of her parents, once said child is born.

Great point. Tails I win, heads you lose.

[Sandy]

Ever heard of the Incorporation Doctrine? Why do you think the Federal Courts rule, e.g., that prayer in public schools is not permitted?

Federal courts have never "incorporated" a Constitutional right to sex-ed-free public schools. Nor should they. Sex education in public schools simply is not forbidden by the U.S. Constitution. No conservative judge would *ever* create such a right out of thin air, which is why this case was rightly thrown out.

[Viet Vet in Augusta GA]

Private school/homeschool.

[redgolum]

That would actually be a good system, and one that would catch a lot of "book" engineers flat footed. One of my strengths when I got into my first job wasn't that I had the best grades (I didn't, Chem E is a tough degree), but that I had the skills to dig into a process and figure out what made it sing. My roommate got straight A's, but couldn't apply any of what he learned. He now writes software for a major controls firm, while I get to play with odd and interesting processes. If there was some sort of certification that would be able to test for the skills needed for the specific discipline, that would be great.

Of course, the professors and universities would be dead set against it, which is why it will probably not happen.

[Jacquerie]

That's what I did (homeschooling) but I can tell you catagorically that the aim of these types is to indoctrinate the children.

Good for you! Anytime the subject of government schools is discussed I am reminded of Ann Coulter's comment that such schools are "madrassas of the left."