President's salute not a good idea [Progressives find something else wrong, Reagan did it]

Capital Times ^ | 3-27-07 | Dave Zweifel

[SJackson]

It raised eyebrows back in 1981 when new President Ronald Reagan began returning the military salutes of the servicemen standing guard when he'd disembark from Air Force One or from Marine 1, the helicopter that would deliver him to the White House lawn.

No presidents before had returned those salutes, not even Dwight D. Eisenhower, who just seven years before he took office had been a five-star Army general. Reagan, who had held the rank of captain in the Army Air Corps during World War II, changed all that and every president since, including our present one, renders the salute.

Although it was far from the biggest issue of the day, many commentators did question the practice at the time, pointing out that while, yes, the president was commander in chief of the military, he wasn't a military person himself and by saluting was insinuating that he was.

I hadn't heard much about that issue since, but noted author Garry Wills, a professor emeritus of history at Northwestern University, brought it up again in an op-ed column he wrote for the New York Times earlier this year.

"We hear constantly now about 'our commander in chief.' The word has become a synonym for 'president.' It is said we 'elected a commander in chief.' It is asked whether this or that candidate is 'worthy to be our commander in chief.'

"But the president is not our commander in chief. He certainly is not mine. I am not in the Army," Wills wrote.

Wills recalled how he cringed back in 1973 when Richard Nixon's chief of staff, Al Haig, tried to justify Nixon's "Saturday Night Massacre" firings because the attorney general and deputy attorney general had refused an order from their "commander in chief."

"President Nixon was not (Elliot Richardson's or William Ruckelshaus') commander in chief," he commented. "The president is not the commander in chief of civilians. He is not even the commander in chief of National Guard troops unless and until they are federalized."

It all may seem like small potatoes, but Wills and others see that attitude and the extension of the salutes as the increasing militarization of U.S. politics.

"The citizenry at large is now thought of as under military discipline," Wills wrote. "The executive branch takes actions in secret, unaccountable to the electorate, to hides its moves from the enemy and protect national secrets."

The bottom line, Wills said, is that "the representative is accountable to citizens. Soldiers are accountable to their officer. The dynamics are different, and to blend them is to undermine the basic principles of our Constitution."

[ken5050]

The military salute their commander in chief. In military etiquette, a salute "demands" recognition..what's he supposed to do, nod at them or give them a high 5?..Reagan returns thye salute out of respect for the men and women who offer it.

[YellowRoseofTx]

I don't know if it's proper or not. I think of it as the President showing his respect for the military.

To me this is nit-picking on the authors part. It sounds like he's concerned about Mrs. BJ Clinton, he's assuming she's going to be the next Pres., doing it and not doing it correctly

[Bogeygolfer]

'The salute is referred to as a "military courtesy." Reagan's return of the salute acknowledged and returned that courtesy; I saw it as an indication of the respect he held for our military and those of us serving in it.'

While I think it was clearly a matter of respect on President Reagan's part I'd still suggest it would be better if our civilian Commander in Chief did not salute. I always thought it was a privilege reserved for the military.

[Old Sarge]

AR 600-25 (Customs and Courtesies) tells us the senior officer present is rendered a salute, in uniform or not. The President as Commander-in-Chief receives this courtesy.

The recipient of a rendering of military courtesy (the salute) is required to return it when in uniform, optional when not. Since the Commander-in-Chief has no specific uniform, it is at the C-in-C's discretion.

[Lancey Howard]

What's a "progressive"?

[SJackson]

I've always looked sideways at a person in civilian clothes saluting a person in uniform. But the flipside is that, while a salute is certainly martial, the military doesn't "own" the gesture . . . and ultimately, that's all a salute is (if done by a civilian).

That's not the exact issue here. It's a Marine, in uniform, saluting a superior in civilian clothes. That's required. A return salute is quite different than Kerry saluting the Democratic convention. While perhaps not required, returns aren't, it's a mark of respect, in this context from the Commander in Chief to those serving the nation.

The author is way out of line.

[1rudeboy]

I agree. This is all simply ivory tower navel-gazing, and I'm just doing my part. :)

[keepitreal]

For you SJackson:

There will be no limp wrested salutes to US Military personnel as her husband Bill Clinton was so famous for when he was president. Bill Clinton was constantly under fire for the way he treated the US Military, and it was always noted that in a letter written to an ROTC Colonel in 1969 Bill admitted that he 'loathed the military.' Hillary will have none of that if she is elected as Commander-in-Chief. According to a report from Matt Drudge, the New York Times will report on Tuesday that she is actually practicing her salute.
http://www.nationalledger.com/artman/publish/article_272612343.shtml

It was in today's NYT too.

[SJackson]

What's a "progressive"?

2 points left of Dean. A Bob LaFolette thing which is hardly worth remembering. Wisconsin gave us John Muir and Aldo Leopold.

[operation clinton cleanup]

The salute is referred to as a "military courtesy." Reagan's return of the salute acknowledged and returned that courtesy; I saw it as an indication of the respect he held for our military and those of us serving in it.

Exactly! I'm no expert on customs and courtesies, but are uniformed military members required to salute the CINC? (whether it is expected to be returned or not)

[keepitreal]

My theory is that if the "historians" say that the salute is not appropriate, then Hillary will not have to salute them (something I know that she finds repulsive) and will have a totally "historic" reason not too.

[jazusamo]

It all may seem like small potatoes, but Wills and others see that attitude and the extension of the salutes as the increasing militarization of U.S. politics.

Well to Zweifel, Wills and others small little minds it may but it's up to the president whether he wants to return a salute.

[Menehune56]

Thanks for the except. I know that President Reagan would have wanted to be correct. You can tell by the pictures of the man that he held the military in the highest regard and the salute was sincerely given.

[Zetman]

"The citizenry at large is now thought of as under military discipline," Wills wrote. "The executive branch takes actions in secret, unaccountable to the electorate, to hides its moves from the enemy and protect national secrets."

This description probably fits Bill Clinton better than almost any other President in history. And yet, none of them ever complained when he did it. When he did it, it was OK. In fact, these same people tried to destroy anyone who had the audacity to point out when Bill Clinton was doing this. How strange!!

[gunnyg]

SALUTE BY FORMER/RETIRED Marines, Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, etc.--CIVILAN ATTITE/COVERED/UNCOVERED, ETC.

http://gunnyg.blogspot.com/2006_03_28_gunnyg_archive.html
http://gunnyg.blogspot.com/2006_03_28_gunnyg_archive.html

[chesty_puller]

On his last day in DC, President Ford shook my hand and saluted me. I was just a Sgt. He was my Commander in Chief and I was proud to report to him.

[fr_freak]

At least Reagan knew how to salute.

God bless Ronald Reagan, but he was saluting incorrectly in that picture. When you're not wearing headgear, your index finger should be at the end of your eyebrow, not the middle of your forehead. I'd probably prefer that Presidents didn't salute, if for no other reason than they just screw it up and it looks silly.

[Popman]

Hillary doing her best imitation of Ms. Hitler

[1rudeboy]

Sounds good to me. I find the thought of Hillary! saluting repulsive also.

[Chi-townChief]

Wills has a tendency to be a total jagoff.