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Atheists Split Over Message
The Las Vegas Sun ^ | March 30,2007 | JAY LINDSAY

Posted on 03/30/2007 6:20:58 PM PDT by buccaneer81

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To: buccaneer81

Actually, South Park borrowing from MP. "Isn't that right, Cockathree?"


21 posted on 03/30/2007 7:06:56 PM PDT by Calvin Locke
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To: Sherman Logan

I'd still like to know how atheists believe in "matter in motion".

Rocks, dirt, minerals, etc. don't move on their own. "A body at rest stays at rest" as Newton pointed out.

So what is the source of movement in the cosmos and on earth?

What gives living things the ability to move, but dead things cannot? The chemical composition of a recently dead person and a person about to die is identical, but one can do many things the other cannot. What is the atheist's explanation?


22 posted on 03/30/2007 7:07:21 PM PDT by Andrew Byler
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To: sourcery
We have a message?

Why didn't I get the memo?

23 posted on 03/30/2007 7:09:57 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: buccaneer81
The celebration of a "New Humanism" will emphasize inclusion and diversity within the movement, and will include Pulitzer Prize-winning scientist E.O. Wilson, a humanist who has made well-chronicled efforts to team with evangelical Christians to fight global warming.

So much for "for what fellowship have righteousness and iniquity? or what communion hath light with DARKNESS?..." Sigh

24 posted on 03/30/2007 7:10:45 PM PDT by AmericaUnited
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To: Sherman Logan
Agnosticism is an intellectually defensible position. Atheism is not.

Depends on your definition of 'atheism.' If by atheism you refer to militant atheism, where the possibility that any sort of deity might exist is denied in priciple, then you are correct. But that definition of atheism is a strawman lacking any utility, since few 'atheits' are actually that dogmatic and closed-minded.

The preferred definition of atheism refers to the belief that the evidence for the existence of deity is so weak that it's safe to assume in practice that it doesn't exist, even though in principle (in theory) deity may in fact exist.

25 posted on 03/30/2007 7:11:23 PM PDT by sourcery (Government Warning: The Attorney General has determined that Federal Regulation is a health hazard)
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To: Andrew Byler

There are perfectly logical non-supernatural explanations for everything you mention. One can believe in life without believing in God.


26 posted on 03/30/2007 7:12:28 PM PDT by Sherman Logan (I didn't claw my way to the top of the food chain to be a vegetarian.)
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To: Hoplite
We have a message? Why didn't I get the memo?

Forgive me, but I don't understand your comment. My comments mentioned neither the word 'message,' nor any synonym thereof. Please explain?

27 posted on 03/30/2007 7:13:08 PM PDT by sourcery (Government Warning: The Attorney General has determined that Federal Regulation is a health hazard)
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To: Hoplite

I didn't get it either.


28 posted on 03/30/2007 7:13:58 PM PDT by darkangel82 (Socialism is NOT an American value.)
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To: sourcery
I agree. However, your definition of "moderate atheism" differs little from that of agnosticism.

The article is essentially about a split between militant and moderate atheists.

The preferred definition of atheism

Preferred by whom?

29 posted on 03/30/2007 7:14:47 PM PDT by Sherman Logan (I didn't claw my way to the top of the food chain to be a vegetarian.)
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To: buccaneer81
Ok, a question for the experts out there:

I don't believe in a god, but cannot rule out the fact that a god may exist. In other words, my lack of belief is not proof of the non-existence of a god.

Furthermore, I do not find the concepts of Christianity (as emulated by Jesus, not the subsequent church) objectionable (like the guy who wears the T-shirt that says "Atheists for Jesus".

Who could object to Jesus, a man who taught total love and brotherhood and who laid down his life for those beliefs? Whether or not he was the son of God, the guy had balls.

I'm a little foggy on the difference between agnostic and atheist. Can someone tell me where I fall?

30 posted on 03/30/2007 7:20:40 PM PDT by Panzerfaust
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To: Panzerfaust

Agnosticism is uncertainly as to the existence of a god, atheism is outright disbelief. I don't know wbout you, but I'm pretty sure I fall in the latter category.


31 posted on 03/30/2007 7:23:26 PM PDT by darkangel82 (Socialism is NOT an American value.)
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To: buccaneer81
Epstein calls them "atheist fundamentalists." He sees them as rigid in their dogma, and as intolerant as some of the faith leaders with whom atheists share the most obvious differences.

Atheists get angry when one points out that they hold to a non-diety religion. But their's is a belief based upon at least as much faith as any "normal" religion.

32 posted on 03/30/2007 7:23:46 PM PDT by highlander_UW (I don't know what my future holds, but I know Who holds my future)
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To: buccaneer81
A man who ceases to believe in God does not believe in nothing; he believes in anything.

- G.K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy

33 posted on 03/30/2007 7:25:09 PM PDT by randog (What the...?!)
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To: Sherman Logan
However, your definition of "moderate atheism" differs little from that of agnosticism.

Actually, agnosticicm is quite different, since it involves indecision/uncertainty not only in principle/theory, but also in practice. The agnostic is actively unsure. The atheist has decided the question does not deserve active consideration, and the possibility that God might exist, although not zero, is too small to be given any weight in making practical, strategic, hard decisions.

In other words, the atheist juror is sure beyond a reasonable doubt that there is no God (and so votes 'Guilty/No-God.') The agnostic juror is not sure beyond a reasonable doubt, and so votes 'Not-Guilty/Unsure.'

Preferred by whom?

By atheists.

34 posted on 03/30/2007 7:27:08 PM PDT by sourcery (Government Warning: The Attorney General has determined that Federal Regulation is a health hazard)
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To: AmericaUnited

I think you'll have to look a schleptillion miles.

Straight up.

< };^)


35 posted on 03/30/2007 7:32:51 PM PDT by Erasmus (This tagline on sabbatical.)
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To: sourcery; darkangel82
1. (Title) Atheists Split Over Message
2. (You) An Atheist Split?
3. (Me) We have a message?

I regret any confusion my post has caused, unless you're on the other side of the split from me, in which case you're a heretical, schismatic so-and-so and woe be unto you, etc.

36 posted on 03/30/2007 7:33:26 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Calvin Locke

No. It'll be the Front for the Liberation of Atheism. Wait--I mean, the Atheist Liberation Front. No, wait--


37 posted on 03/30/2007 7:34:41 PM PDT by Erasmus (This tagline on sabbatical.)
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To: Erasmus
No. It'll be the Front for the Liberation of Atheism. Wait--I mean, the Atheist Liberation Front. No, wait--

Wouldn't it just be simpler to follow the gourd?

38 posted on 03/30/2007 7:40:19 PM PDT by lightman (The Office of the Keys should be exercised as some ministry needs to be exorcised)
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To: highlander_UW
Atheists get angry when one points out that they hold to a non-diety religion. But their's is a belief based upon at least as much faith as any "normal" religion.

Firstly, not everyone means the same thing by the word 'religion.' (Or by the word 'atheist,' for that matter.)

Secondly, if you define religion as belief, then all beliefs are religious--including the belief that the Sun will rise the next morning. Think of what that definition would do to the scope of the First Ammendment's guarantee of Freedom Of Religion.

Thirdly, both atheism and science are fundamentally different from religion (as I define those terms, at least): Both science and atheism are subdomains of an epistemelogical paradigm where there are no absolute beliefs. Scientific theories are not absolute beliefs that must be taken on faith--and that's true by definition.

By definition, a scientific theory (belief) must be falsifiable. Scientists must accept that, in principle, any of their theories/beliefs might be wrong, that new evidence may require that any belief/theory be discarded. Some even have begun to realize that the rationalist epistemology itself must also be falsifable (subject to the possibility of disproof, at least in principle.)

39 posted on 03/30/2007 7:40:41 PM PDT by sourcery (Government Warning: The Attorney General has determined that Federal Regulation is a health hazard)
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To: Hoplite
I regret any confusion my post has caused, unless you're on the other side of the split from me, in which case you're a heretical, schismatic so-and-so and woe be unto you, etc.

Oh--got it. Actually, that's funny :-)

40 posted on 03/30/2007 7:42:03 PM PDT by sourcery (Government Warning: The Attorney General has determined that Federal Regulation is a health hazard)
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