Rudy Giuliani: Lifelong Liberal

The Politico ^ | 4/16/07 | George J. Marlin

[Alberta's Child]

Thanks. LOL!

[Alberta's Child]

Democrats don’t need fraud in New Jersey anymore, as this place is becoming increasingly polluted by recent immigrants and New York transplants.

[writeblock]

“It’s kind of funny how that list of states used to be very large, and now it’s shrinking. And almost all of those where he ‘polls very well’ used to be in the ‘Rudy is ahead’ column.”

Not so. I type away off the top of my head and the list is about the same. I have never put CA in his column because no matchup polls with Hillary have yet been taken. The polling has been exclusively within his own party. But I have said over and over on these threads that at the very least he will force Hillary to spend big bucks in that state. In OH he is tied with Hillary—that’s running very well in my book—in fact it’s amazing, considering how the Republican Party has collapsed in OH. In CT he is running ahead by as much as 16 points in some polls—but one poll showed him behind so I did not include that state in the “ahead” list this time around.

As for your prediction that he would win only two of these states—on what is that based? There’s no way he would lose NJ, FL, PA, RI or MI. One major reason is the heavy concentration of Italian-American voters in those states, most of whom would be very pro-Rudy. Their representation in key battleground states is considerable, certainly enough to give him the edge when coupled with his very high favorabilities among all other residents in these states. He’s now running ahead of Hillary in FL by double digits, for instance.

Rhode Island 199,077 19.0%
Connecticut 634,364 18.6%
New Jersey 1,503,637 17.9%
New York 2,737,146 14.4%
Massachusetts 860,079 13.5%
Pennsylvania 1,418,465 11.6%
Delaware 72,677 9.3%
New Hampshire 105,610 8.5%
Nevada 132,515 6.6%
Florida 1,003,977 6.3%
Vermont 38,835 6.4%
Ohio 675,749 6.0%
Illinois 744,274 6.0%
Maryland 267,573 5.1%
California 1,450,000 5%
Michigan 450952, 4.5.%

California has an Italian-American population of around 1.4 million—but percentage-wise, given the size of the population, it is not above 5%. Rudy’s appeal in CA is wholly due to his reputation as a leader and as a moderate Republican like Arnold. He polls very well there for the same reason Arnold is doing very well.

[writeblock]

“...Hiring and going into business with mobsters like Kerik.”

You people are despicable. Rudy sent the heads of the five families to prison for long terms and broke the back of organized crime in NY. He did this after persistent threats to his life. How many politicians do you know brave enough to do this? His enemies come up with “Kerik”—the same way Cheney’s enemies come up with “Haliburton.” It’s mindless shorthand for a phony “scandal” that’s really no scandal at all—but you throw it out anyway—exactly as DU does. That’s contemptible—but what I’ve come to expect from some of you on the fringe.

[dynachrome]

"appealing to more Independents."

Independent? I re-registered as an independent after 1996. I refuse to hold my nose anymore and vote for a candidate because they have a little "r" after their name!

[muleskinner]

Since Rudy’s achievments are considerable,

Can you name a SINGLE ONE that appeals to conservatives?

Yeah, you can walk down 42nd street without being panhandled by some bum, and not see a porno theater every 20 feet around Times Square.

[Beagle8U]

Giuliani Testified He Was Briefed on Kerik in ’00

By WILLIAM K. RASHBAUM
Published: March 30, 2007
Rudolph W. Giuliani told a grand jury that his former chief investigator remembered having briefed him on some aspects of Bernard B. Kerik’s relationship with a company suspected of ties to organized crime before Mr. Kerik’s appointment as New York City police commissioner, according to court records.....

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/30/us/politics/30rudy.html?ex=1176955200&en=209ff88c4d71a80f&ei=5070

[Alberta's Child]

Well, let's go through that list of states there and look at it a different way . . .

Rhode Island has 4 electoral votes
Connecticut has 7 electoral votes
New Jersey has 15 electoral votes
New York has 31 electoral votes
Massachusetts has 12 electoral votes
Pennsylvania has 21 electoral votes
Delaware has 3 electoral votes
New Hampshire has 4 electoral votes
Nevada has 5 electoral votes
Florida has 27 electoral votes
Vermont has 3 electoral votes
Ohio has 20 electoral votes
Illinois has 21 electoral votes
Maryland has 10 electoral votes
California has 55 electoral votes
Michigan has 17 electoral votes

That's 255 electoral votes among the 16 states with the largest Italian-American populations. Of those states, John Kerry won 13 (all but Nevada, Florida and Ohio) in the 2004 presidential election, giving him 203 electoral votes out of the 270 he would have needed to win the election.

I think you've made a pretty strong case that Italian-Americans should have no say in who this country elects to the White House. :-P

[Alberta's Child]

Yeah, you can walk down 42nd street without being panhandled by some bum, and not see a porno theater every 20 feet around Times Square.

What did Rudy Giuliani have to do with all that -- especially the second item you mentioned?

[Gop1040]

Great analysis. I would add that not only Italian-American voters would vote for him in great numbers, but other ethnic groups, and yes Catholics (like myself) who see an opportunity to puncture that WASP-dominated hold on the presidency.

[Alberta's Child]

That's exactly the kind of bizarre, silly mindset that got us a flaming homosexual loony-tune elected governor of New Jersey a few years ago.

Yeah, let's puncture that WASP-dominated hold on the governor's mansion -- and elect a dysfunctional A-hole who picks up anonymous sex partners in highway rest areas.

You must be freaking kidding me.

[penowa]

Bush is pro-life which brought out gobs of Reagan Democrats (yes, in PA they're still registered as Democrats) plus the Amish, Mennonites, etc. who never vote, but were courted by the Republicans to vote for life and registered and showed up in vast numbers.

Rudy will get NO Reagan Democrat votes as pro-life is the ONLY thing that entices most to vote Republican, and certainly nothing from the plain people for the same reason. He will split the Republican vote between pro-life and pro-choice with many pro-life Republicans having no reason to vote for either party.

IF Rudy is the Republican nominee, he will receive far fewer votes when things shake out than Bush did in either the '00 or '04 elections, and with all the help Bush had in '04 from both pro-choice and pro-life Republicans, plus pro-life Democrats, it was not enough for him to carry the state especially with a Democrat governor at the levers of power. Fast Eddie will still be there in '08 to manufacture the needed votes from Philly to carry the Democrat candidate (even Hillary, not to mention that she might take some of the pro-choice suburban Republican women's vote from Rudy.)

[mkjessup]

You’re wrong right off the bat. He doesn’t support “big government liberalism.” Check my above post which summarizes his conservative record in NYC.

Don't be a freakin idiot, it is a matter of public record that the NYC government was larger than ever after Rudy left office, and in fact he hired 25,000 MORE workers, many (if not all) of them patronage hires, and he left NYC with billions in debt, and you can't blame it all on 9/11.

You spin any faster, and your eyeballs are going to pop out from centrifugal force.

[penowa]

The Catholic Italian-American vote is pro-life, the Reagan Democrats, and they do NOT vote for pro-choice Republicans.

Bush was ahead in the polls too up until a month or so before the election in '04, but he didn't carry the state.

The same Italian-Americans were the backbone of Santorum's wins in PA, but they abandoned him for a pro-life Democrat, i.e., they "went home." Ethnic doesn't get it when it comes to Republican or Democrat if all other things are equal. PA has "BORN" Democrats (like someone born Catholic) and they feel guilty voting Republican, and can only justify it when voting against a pro-choice candidate. Reagan showed them that lightening doesn't strike you for touching the "R" lever on the machine, but they still prefer voting Democrat when possible.

No Republican is going to carry PA again in my lifetime and when Specter goes, that will be the end of the pseudo-Republicans on the national level as well. PA will be just like Jersey. They flirt with Republicans, but they don't elect them.

Don't count on "I's" doing Rudy any good here. There aren't that many, and lots of them are disgruntled conservatives who've left the Republicans because they hate the country club bunch who prefer a liberal Democrat to a conservative Republican.

[mkjessup]

“...Hiring and going into business with mobsters like Kerik.”
You people are despicable.

Oh really? Are you saying that Kerik is not 'all mobbed up'?

Rudy sent the heads of the five families to prison for long terms and broke the back of organized crime in NY.

Yeah, they're out of business these days, no more organized crime in NYC, right? (how can you keep a straight face when spewing that Rudy-ganda?)

He did this after persistent threats to his life. How many politicians do you know brave enough to do this?

Prosecutors get threats all the time. It comes with the territory.

His enemies come up with “Kerik”—the same way Cheney’s enemies come up with “Haliburton.”

Don't even go there. Vice President Cheney never recommended somebody who couldn't pass a background check for the highest security position in the land. Rudy did.

It’s mindless shorthand for a phony “scandal” that’s really no scandal at all—but you throw it out anyway—exactly as DU does.

If it was a phony scandal, then why is Kerik facing federal tax evasion charges, wiretapping, making false statements to the Feds when he was trying to snag that Homeland Security gig, and perhaps you could explain why Kerik was burning up the phone lines with New Jersey 'businessman' ("aaaay, I'm just a humble businessman, trying to make a living') Frank DiTommaso? Oh of course, it's all innocent, nothing to it. Heh.

That’s contemptible—but what I’ve come to expect from some of you on the fringe.

You think Federal prosecutors in New York are 'on the fringe'?

You're heading for a great big cup of WakeTFU pal.

[writeblock]

“That’s 255 electoral votes among the 16 states with the largest Italian-American populations. Of those states, John Kerry won 13 (all but Nevada, Florida and Ohio) in the 2004 presidential election, giving him 203 electoral votes out of the 270 he would have needed to win the election.”

So what’s your point? Ethnicity was not a factor in 2004. It will be if Rudy runs in 2008.

[penowa]

"They rather have Hillary-Marxism than vote for Rudy."

No. It's just that most of us realize that a choice between Rudy and Hillary is NO CHOICE. Six of one; half a dozen of the other.

[penowa]

"Yeah, you can walk down 42nd street without being panhandled by some bum, and not see a porno theater every 20 feet around Times Square."

No, YOU can walk down wherever in NYC without being accosted by bums, squeegy guys, etc. Nearly all the red states do not worry about this kind of stuff and we don't need Rudy to clean up our neighborhoods because they are just fine. That stuff doesn't play anywhere except the big blue cities where the Democrats run things.

[Beagle8U]

“Now Kerik seems to be finishing off Giuliani’s political career, a process that was started by testicular cancer in the 2000 Senate Elections. After campaigning for Kerik for weeks, and making a personal recommendation to the President, Giuliani is having a tough time distancing himself from the fallout. At this point, if someone were to offer me a choice between an association with Bernie Kerik and ball cancer... Let’s just say that my balls would not be happy with my decision.”

Funny stuff.

http://bullshit-detection.com/2004/12/bernie-kerik-is-uniquely-qualified-to.html

[writeblock]

Bush lost PA despite record pro-life voting in PA. Why? Because it’s a state that’s trending leftward. And tell me, why is Rudy beating Hillary in all the PA polls—if, as you say, Rudy can’t win PA without the pro-life vote? The fact is, he’ll win PA—first, because he appeals to moderates and second, because of the ethnic Italian vote.