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Will FR embrace socialism to make way for Rudy Giuliani as a Republican presidential candidate?
vanity | April 21, 2007 | Jim Robinson

Posted on 04/21/2007 6:42:25 PM PDT by Jim Robinson

We've got some real challenges facing us. FR was established to fight against government corruption, overstepping, and abuse and to fight for a return to the limited constitutional government as envisioned and set forth by our founding fathers in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution and other founding documents.

One of the biggest cases of government corruption, overstepping and abuse that I know of is its disgraceful headlong slide into a socialist hell. Our founders never intended for abortion to be the law of the land. And they never intended the Supreme Court to be a legislative body. They never intended God or religion to be written out of public life. They never intended government to be used to deny God's existence or for government to be used to force sexual perversions onto our society or into our children's education curriculum. They never intend for government to disarm the people. They never intended for government to set up sanctuary cities for illegals. They never intended government to “rule” over the people and or to take their earnings or private property or to deprive them of their constitutional rights to free speech, free religion, private property, due process, etc. They never intended government to seize the private property of private citizens through draconian asset forfeiture laws or laws allowing government to take private property from lawful owners to give to developers. Or to seize wealth and redistribute it to others. Or to provide government forced health insurance or government forced retirement systems.

All of the above are examples of ever expanding socialism and tyranny brought to us by liberals/liberalism.

FR fights against the liberals/Democrats in all of these areas and always will. Now if liberalism infiltrates into the Republican party and Republicans start promoting all this socialist garbage, do you think that I or FR will suddenly stop fighting against it? Do you think I'm going to bow down and accept abortionism, feminism, homosexualism, global warming, illegal alien lawbreakers, gun control, asset forfeiture, socialism, tyranny, totalitarianism, etc, etc, etc, just so some fancy New York liberal lawyer can become president from the Republican party?

Do you really expect me to do that?


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To: M. Thatcher

Hih? When did I ever call you or any other conservative a treasonous liberal? I remember the thread where it was being discussed, but it wasn’t started by me and I don’t think I ever said any such thing. I did try to reason that the poster meant Rudy supporters were “betraying the conservative cause” (as in 2. below) or something such, but I didn’t call anyone “treasonous liberal” that I can remember.

http://www.answers.com/treason&r=67

trea·son
n.

1. Violation of allegiance toward one’s country or sovereign, especially the betrayal of one’s country by waging war against it or by consciously and purposely acting to aid its enemies.

2. A betrayal of trust or confidence.


1,251 posted on 04/21/2007 11:49:40 PM PDT by Jim Robinson
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To: Howlin; Petronski
Stooping to the ad hominem tonight?
Oh, my god, you caught me.
And I am so wounded, you being the bastion of correct posting guidelines and all. You set an example most of us can only hope to attain some day.

You shameless hussy, you think you can insult me and then just run off with Petronski and lavish him with your sarcasms? And to THINK I was actually entertaining the idea of taking you for a ride in my '58 DeSoto.

You can walk home sister, we're done (for now anyway).
1,252 posted on 04/21/2007 11:49:49 PM PDT by mkjessup (Jan 20, 2009 - "We Don't Know. Where Rudy Went. Just Glad He's Not. The President. Burma Shave.")
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To: flashbunny

You must be a speed reader. I’m having the hardest time getting through this thread!
I’m only up to post #551! (and the thread keeps growing! lol)


1,253 posted on 04/21/2007 11:49:58 PM PDT by calcowgirl ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." P. J. O'Rourke)
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To: mkjessup

I knew you were alone alot.

If you weren’t, somebody would have told you by now that you’re not funny.


1,254 posted on 04/21/2007 11:50:11 PM PDT by Howlin (Honk if you like Fred Thompson!!!)
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To: Peach
What did MiaT do to get banned and called an abortionist troll?

No idea. But, while we are on the subject, ca someone please explain how to read her posts? For many years now everyone has talked about how great her posts are. Yet, I can't figure them out. It seems to be pages and pages of disjointed ramblings and graphics. I can't even ever figure out what the posts are about, or how they relate to whatever the headline is.

1,255 posted on 04/21/2007 11:50:11 PM PDT by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: DCPatriot
No sir, if Giuliani is the nominee, you'll hold your nose just like the rest of us. Won't you?

Um...I guess you can't read very well. I think he's made it clear.

If the Republican Party betrays all of its foundational, core principles and nominates a liberal like Giuliani, then they don't want the conservatives' votes. They'll have made that clear too. Why give them something that they don't want (or deserve) anyway? That is illogical.

1,256 posted on 04/21/2007 11:50:23 PM PDT by Spiff (Rudy Giuliani Quote (NY Post, 1996) "Most of Clinton's policies are very similar to most of mine.")
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To: Howlin
“And don’t lecture me.”

I apologize. I didn’t mean to.

1,257 posted on 04/21/2007 11:51:12 PM PDT by babygene (Never look into the laser with your last good eye...)
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To: Spyder
I'm a conservative doesn't want to go after sinners with a fiery sword but would rather them learn to love the Lord in their hearts

Bravo! And we are commanded to do just that! The only thing that changes anyone is The Word! Where was the outcry these past 40 years from the Christians? They want government to cure the social ills that we allowed through silence. The only noise was grumbling instead of spreading The Word.
1,258 posted on 04/21/2007 11:51:37 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: Cold Heat

And you fail to mention 2nd amendment voters in your little screed. Gun rights voters AND social conservatives make up FAR more than one/third of the party.


1,259 posted on 04/21/2007 11:51:50 PM PDT by Politicalmom (Better a democrat with an energized opposition than a leftist “Republican” with no opposition.)
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To: mkjessup

Your post was, at best, very wierd.


1,260 posted on 04/21/2007 11:51:51 PM PDT by Petronski (FRED!)
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To: Spiff
I can't disagree with that.

Can you disagree with Keyes' actual plan (as reported by Michelle Malkin):

Speaking at a news conference at the Hotel InterContinental in Chicago, Republican Keyes added to his now familiar talking points his stance on slavery reparations.

Prompted by a reporter's question, Keyes gave a brief tutorial on Roman history and said that in regard to reparations for slavery, the U.S. should do what the Romans did: "When a city had been devastated [in the Roman empire], for a certain length of time--a generation or two--they exempted the damaged city from taxation."

Keyes proposed that for a generation or two, African-Americans of slave heritage should be exempted from federal taxes--federal because slavery "was an egregious failure on the part of the federal establishment." In calling for the tax relief, Keyes appeared to be reaching out to capture the black vote, something that may prove difficult to do, particularly after his unwelcome reception at the Bud Billiken Day Parade Saturday.

The former ambassador said his plan would give African-Americans "a competitive edge in the labor market," because those exempted would be cheaper to hire than federal tax-paying employees and would "compensate for all those years when your labor was being exploited..."
1,261 posted on 04/21/2007 11:52:29 PM PDT by Registered (Politics is the art of the possible)
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To: Jim Robinson
Translation: "I never said it, but here's the dictionary definition to allow me to repeat the charge."

Beneath contempt.

1,262 posted on 04/21/2007 11:52:30 PM PDT by M. Thatcher
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To: Sturm Ruger
Thank you for responding more articulately than I could.
1,263 posted on 04/21/2007 11:52:38 PM PDT by Pan_Yan (All grey areas are fabrications.)
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To: Just sayin
What is being shown is that when you settle on a candidate for bandwagon reasons....the country loses.

Are you too stupid to read a tagline?

1,264 posted on 04/21/2007 11:52:50 PM PDT by Howlin (Honk if you like Fred Thompson!!!)
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To: Nam Vet
I always am surprised at the opinions of some posters who consider themselves Conservatives.

Yesterday I was arguing with one who was praising Giuliani for violating the NY State ban on giving welfare to legal immigrants in country for less than a year.

The poster really and truly believed that it was a good and necessary thing.

I have two theories:

A. They are liberals who call themselves conservatives just to try to promote their liberal candidate in the GOP primary.

B. They are ex-liberals who have been mugged by the reality of 9/11 and think that because they believe in national security, that makes them conservatives.

Perhaps it is a combination of both.

1,265 posted on 04/21/2007 11:53:01 PM PDT by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: babygene

And I apologize for snapping at you; you and I agree on more than we ever disagreed on.


1,266 posted on 04/21/2007 11:53:36 PM PDT by Howlin (Honk if you like Fred Thompson!!!)
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To: Peach; Jim Robinson
Hey, if Jim wants to ban all the freepers who think national security trumps social issues, he can have at it and you all enjoy that little echo chamber of yours.

If you really think that way then post your opus and hit the road. In the meantime if you're going to talk about him why don't you post to him?

Maybe you should consider making a Ghouliani_Republic site and see what you get?

1,267 posted on 04/21/2007 11:53:41 PM PDT by Centurion2000 (Killing all of your enemies without mercy is the only sure way of sleeping soundly at night.)
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To: Howlin
So your mother IS making you get offline. I knew it.

No, but you do kind of remind me of her. She's a tough old bat too.

1,268 posted on 04/21/2007 11:54:08 PM PDT by alicewonders (I like Duncan Hunter for President in 2008!)
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To: Howlin
Of course that’s how you’d have to dismiss me, punk.

Hey, I thought you didn't want to talk to me!?!
1,269 posted on 04/21/2007 11:54:58 PM PDT by mkjessup (Jan 20, 2009 - "We Don't Know. Where Rudy Went. Just Glad He's Not. The President. Burma Shave.")
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To: Rodney King
"It seems to be pages and pages of disjointed ramblings and graphics."

I thought you said you couldn't figure them out ;'}
1,270 posted on 04/21/2007 11:55:12 PM PDT by rockrr (Never argue with a man who buys ammo in bulk...)
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To: Pan_Yan
You pick the candidate in the primaries that most closely resembles your views. If you think Rudy will be the best President, vote for him. But you are voting for him based on electability you are going to lose every time.

Amen! Everything will hinge on the primary.

1,271 posted on 04/21/2007 11:55:12 PM PDT by Marie (Unintended consequences.)
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To: alicewonders

With a child like you, it’s a wonder she’s not in a psych ward.


1,272 posted on 04/21/2007 11:55:19 PM PDT by Howlin (Honk if you like Fred Thompson!!!)
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To: Blackirish
Well he was in charge of a police force larger then most countries army's

Has nothing to do with terrorism, but he was the mayor, not the police chief. And when the police chief who accomplished most of the miracles Rudy took credit for got top billing in Time Magazine, Rudy fired him.

He was articulating the Islamist threat way before any pol I can think of. Way before 9/11. That was one of the reasons he kicked out Arafat despite the shrieks of the NYTimes.

I asked for facts. Point me to a speech he gave about the "islamist threat", and then explain how that speech prevented any deaths on 9/11. Tell me how kicking Arafat out of a theater stopped the terrorists from bombing our embassys, or solved the Israili/Palistinian crises, or prevented any terrorist attack. Don't just say "he's strong on terror". I already heard that, I want some proof.

His response to 9/11 despite what others say was heroic.

What did he do? He ran his city. He didn't personally run into the building and rescue people. He didn't put his own life in danger. He reacted well when you wanted him to react well.

Meanwhile, ordinary citizens were sacrificing their lives on a plane over Pennsylvania, firefighters and police were running up the stairs of a building doomed to collapse.

Donald Rumsfeld was running INTO the burning pentagon. Firefighters from all around DC were rushing to a place that could be hit again, to rescue people.

Sure, some people wouldn't have done so well, but he didn't really do anything. He did get on TV though.

Provide 3 specific examples of things Rudy did on 9/11 that were extraordinary either in bravery or in action. Should be easy for you. Again, I didn't ask you to repeat the assertions, I want facts. What did Rudy DO on 9/11 that showed him to be far above anybody else? What did he DO that was more than what any competent manager would do?

His speech following 9/11 slapping around the UN was fantastic.

Words are not deeds. A lot of people can say the right thing. I could make a speech that would run rings around Giuliani, and I'll never be presidential. A speech is not an act against terrorism. And everybody whose anybody can slap the UN around. What did he actually DO? What acts did he take that showed the terrorists wouldn't win?

Watching those buildings collapse around him and attending all those funerals....he more then any other pol knows the nature of the enemy...he’s qualified.

He saw the building collapse? We all saw the buildings collapse. That's the "he was there, so he is tough on terrorism" argument. In what way does watching the buildings collapse make him no more than "any other pol" the nature of the enemy? Romney doesn't understand? Gilmore (who was the Governor of the state in which the Pentagon was hit) doesn't understand? McCain doesn't understand the nature of the terrorist threat? What has Rudy done to show he knows the nature of the threat more than any other pol?

To summarise, he's strong on terror because he employed more cops than the next 4 cities combined just to get a 20% better crime rate, he kicked Arafat out of a theater in a pique of authoritarian rage, he watched the towers fall, and he made a good speech.

I'm sorry, but I am unimpressed.

1,273 posted on 04/21/2007 11:55:57 PM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: ansel12
That was England, our national heritage really started almost a hundred years later.

A lot of people came here to escape religious persecution. oddly enough, many of them turned around and began perscuting others. So you would say that anything that occurred between 1492 and 1776 weren't part of our national heritage? If you really want to strictly define "national" to exclude anything leading up to the American revolution, I suppose that's your choice, but that overlooks a lot of our history.

1,274 posted on 04/21/2007 11:56:38 PM PDT by Spyder (The "Hate Giuliani Syndrome." Like Bush Delusional Syndrome, a cure is yet to be found.)
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To: Howlin
"I’m not quite convinved English is your mother tongue."

With Giuliani's position on illegal immigration you might as well get used to it.

1,275 posted on 04/21/2007 11:56:55 PM PDT by NapkinUser (Rudy Giuliani gets his salsa from New York City.)
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To: Howlin

Howlin, Tell me what ‘BLUE DOG” democrats ran on if not gun ownership and tough immigration positions? Yup, conservative values. It most certainly wasn’t ‘free’ healthcare amnesty for illegals, gay marriage and gun restrictions.

You think you know what IS is kind of like you think you know what humor is. You attack anyone who disagrees with you in the tinyest way.......just like Pelosi and Reid. You spare no expense and take great lengths to tear down good people trying to have straight forward dialogue.

You are part of what is WRONG with FR.


1,276 posted on 04/21/2007 11:57:01 PM PDT by Just sayin (Is is what it is, for if it was anything else, it would be isn't.)
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To: Rodney King

Both.


1,277 posted on 04/21/2007 11:57:37 PM PDT by Just sayin (Is is what it is, for if it was anything else, it would be isn't.)
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To: Howlin
With a child like you, it’s a wonder she’s not in a psych ward.

That's funny - she says that a lot too - are you sure you're not my mother?

1,278 posted on 04/21/2007 11:57:44 PM PDT by alicewonders (I like Duncan Hunter for President in 2008!)
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To: Jim Robinson
I really don’t give a crap if the Rooty Rooters think I’m spamming.

I do tire of looking things up and they refuse to read it. They just slink off to another thread and post the same crap you just refuted!

I can say you have much more Patience that I would have with my thumb on the ZOT button.

But I still love FreeRepublic!

1,279 posted on 04/21/2007 11:58:30 PM PDT by Beagle8U (FreeRepublic -- One stop shopping ....... Its the Conservative Super Walmart for news .)
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To: ansel12
“Social conservatives ARE the fiscal and national defense conservatives”

The current administration ran on social conservative platform. It was also supported by and elected by social conservatives. They won in 04 by pushing the marriage amendment and by the lameness of Jon Kerry. By that point it had become clear that fiscal conservatism or promoting the idea of small government was not on their radar screen. In fact with earmarks and pork bills like the farm bill, the energy bill, the highway bill and the medicaid billAt this point I’m unclear how socons are fiscal conservatives or believe in a smaller less intrusive government. If I’m wrong...tell me. I’d like to believe that.

1,280 posted on 04/21/2007 11:58:33 PM PDT by Blackirish
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To: alicewonders

thank God I’m not your mother, but it sure sounds like she knows what she’s talking about.


1,281 posted on 04/21/2007 11:58:46 PM PDT by Howlin (Honk if you like Fred Thompson!!!)
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To: Howlin
http://shainla.typepad.com/photos/camp_ho_2006/finger.jpg

Hey is that you Howlin? A bit of a tomboy eh?
1,282 posted on 04/21/2007 11:59:15 PM PDT by mkjessup (Jan 20, 2009 - "We Don't Know. Where Rudy Went. Just Glad He's Not. The President. Burma Shave.")
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To: TAdams8591

“Thanks NU. It’s an interesting thread.”

The thread has created a couple of “undocumented freepers” already.


1,283 posted on 04/21/2007 11:59:20 PM PDT by flashbunny (<--- Free Anti-Rino graphics! See Rudy the Rino get exposed as a liberal with his own words!)
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To: babygene
I said I would rather have Hilary as a president than Rudy... But I didn’t say I’d vote for her. I think she would be less dangerous than Rudy, and I think she would likely be tougher on the rag-heads.

What an absolutely stupid post.

1,284 posted on 04/21/2007 11:59:28 PM PDT by FreeReign
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To: CharlesWayneCT

The Giuliani supporters have a habit of lying and distorting his liberal record to try to convince us to vote for him. It has the effect of our discounting the good things that he has done.

Let’s not make the same mistake. Rudy was a great Mayor, and he is up on the Arab threat. He did a good job on 9/11.. well, people like you and I who govern ourselves with logic don’t see what the big deal is, but apparently the country thought so.

There is no need to diminish the good job that Rudy did as Mayor. The fact is, however, that basically he is a liberal and not fit to run our country.


1,285 posted on 04/21/2007 11:59:29 PM PDT by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: Just sayin
"The only lesson I aim to teach is to vote FOR your candidate because they represent YOUR values"

But if that candidate can't win you are not voting for your values. You are voting for a candidate who can't win.

1,286 posted on 04/21/2007 11:59:41 PM PDT by TAdams8591 (Guiliani is a Democrat in Repblican drag!)
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To: Just sayin
You are part of what is WRONG with FR.

Shove it up your butt, punk.

1,287 posted on 04/21/2007 11:59:48 PM PDT by Howlin (Honk if you like Fred Thompson!!!)
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To: M. Thatcher

No, it’s as in: conservatives who support liberal positions like abortion rights, gay rights, gun control, etc, are “betraying the conservative cause.” I do not see anything incorrect in that statement. Do you?


1,288 posted on 04/22/2007 12:00:14 AM PDT by Jim Robinson
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To: Howlin

LOL! I am going now - enjoy your howl.


1,289 posted on 04/22/2007 12:00:32 AM PDT by alicewonders (I like Duncan Hunter for President in 2008!)
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To: Blackirish
that fiscal conservatism or promoting the idea of small government was not on their radar screen. In fact with earmarks and pork bills like the farm bill, the energy bill, the highway bill and the medicaid billAt this point I’m unclear how socons are fiscal conservatives or believe in a smaller less intrusive government. If I’m wrong...tell me. I’d like to believe that.

You are right, but how the hell is voting for a guy that voted for Mario Cuomo the answer?

1,290 posted on 04/22/2007 12:01:08 AM PDT by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: Peach
Yes. I even have mastered the art of hitting the "to post" button more than one time, so I could go back to the original reference and make comments based on the origin of a topic.

Like in this case, your reply to Jim where you said:

Ditto with mentioning that Reagan used to be a Democrat and signed what at the time was the most liberal abortion legislation in the nation.

Now, you were saying that if you couldn't say things like that about Reagan, Jim would simply have to ban you. My question is, why do you feel you need to say that about Reagan? Because you think he was right, and therefore Rudy is also right to support abortion? Or because you think Reagan was wrong, but he later changed, and you think Rudy will change as well?

Or is it just that you think that if you point out Reagan had a flaw, but we supported him, we will have to support Rudy even though he has flaws?

What is the point of bringing up the fact that Reagan signed an abortion bill in the 1960s? Why do you bring it up?

That is my question, and your response was non-responsive to that question, and I'd really like to know the answer.

1,291 posted on 04/22/2007 12:01:19 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: Jim Robinson

Not only do I not expect you to do that, I would shoot my computer if you ever did.


1,292 posted on 04/22/2007 12:01:28 AM PDT by philetus (Keep doing what you always do and you'll keep getting what you always get.)
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To: Jim Robinson

You want it both ways: you justify calling me a treasonous liberal but can’t defend it.


1,293 posted on 04/22/2007 12:01:56 AM PDT by M. Thatcher
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To: M. Thatcher

“I will never forgive you for calling me a treasonous liberal as long as I live.”

BOO hoo hoo...


1,294 posted on 04/22/2007 12:02:34 AM PDT by babygene (Never look into the laser with your last good eye...)
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To: quidnunc

You have no one to blame but YOURSELVES for supporting a candidate simply because you’re afraid of Hillary. If Rudy gets the nod, and Hillary beats him, YOU will be to blame. Period.


1,295 posted on 04/22/2007 12:02:44 AM PDT by rintense (I'm 4 Thompson!)
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To: Howlin
I knew you were alone alot.
If you weren’t, somebody would have told you by now that you’re not funny.


Actually, I'm beginning to think that you just don't have a very sophisticated sense of humor.

Of course an old crow like you probably doesn't find a whole lot to laugh about.
1,296 posted on 04/22/2007 12:02:54 AM PDT by mkjessup (Jan 20, 2009 - "We Don't Know. Where Rudy Went. Just Glad He's Not. The President. Burma Shave.")
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To: mkjessup

How old are you, 12?


1,297 posted on 04/22/2007 12:03:35 AM PDT by Rex Anderson
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To: rintense

You’re wasting your rant; he was banned.


1,298 posted on 04/22/2007 12:03:41 AM PDT by Howlin (Honk if you like Fred Thompson!!!)
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To: TAdams8591

How do you determine who can and can’t win? I thought we had elections for that? Oh yeah, I guess we should believe anything the media says and vote for who they say can win.......One poll matters and is valid, th one one voting day......in ‘writing’ by registered voters.

Nope not me. Like I said, I am voting Hunter because he has earned my vote with his actions. Maybe your predominant value is winning? Good for you, but for me other values come first win or lose.


1,299 posted on 04/22/2007 12:03:47 AM PDT by Just sayin (Is is what it is, for if it was anything else, it would be isn't.)
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To: NapkinUser
Don't forget that rudy opposed making english the official language
1,300 posted on 04/22/2007 12:04:04 AM PDT by flashbunny (<--- Free Anti-Rino graphics! See Rudy the Rino get exposed as a liberal with his own words!)
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