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Will FR embrace socialism to make way for Rudy Giuliani as a Republican presidential candidate?
vanity | April 21, 2007 | Jim Robinson

Posted on 04/21/2007 6:42:25 PM PDT by Jim Robinson

We've got some real challenges facing us. FR was established to fight against government corruption, overstepping, and abuse and to fight for a return to the limited constitutional government as envisioned and set forth by our founding fathers in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution and other founding documents.

One of the biggest cases of government corruption, overstepping and abuse that I know of is its disgraceful headlong slide into a socialist hell. Our founders never intended for abortion to be the law of the land. And they never intended the Supreme Court to be a legislative body. They never intended God or religion to be written out of public life. They never intended government to be used to deny God's existence or for government to be used to force sexual perversions onto our society or into our children's education curriculum. They never intend for government to disarm the people. They never intended for government to set up sanctuary cities for illegals. They never intended government to “rule” over the people and or to take their earnings or private property or to deprive them of their constitutional rights to free speech, free religion, private property, due process, etc. They never intended government to seize the private property of private citizens through draconian asset forfeiture laws or laws allowing government to take private property from lawful owners to give to developers. Or to seize wealth and redistribute it to others. Or to provide government forced health insurance or government forced retirement systems.

All of the above are examples of ever expanding socialism and tyranny brought to us by liberals/liberalism.

FR fights against the liberals/Democrats in all of these areas and always will. Now if liberalism infiltrates into the Republican party and Republicans start promoting all this socialist garbage, do you think that I or FR will suddenly stop fighting against it? Do you think I'm going to bow down and accept abortionism, feminism, homosexualism, global warming, illegal alien lawbreakers, gun control, asset forfeiture, socialism, tyranny, totalitarianism, etc, etc, etc, just so some fancy New York liberal lawyer can become president from the Republican party?

Do you really expect me to do that?


TOPICS: News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: abortion; aliens; banglist; bernardkerik; bugzapper; bugzapperinventor; bugzapperthread; byebyerinos; bzzzt; classicthread; damties; dragqueens4rudy; elections; fr; freedom; freepercide; freepersturnedtroll; freepicide; giuliani; globalwarming; gojimgo; greatzot; gungrabber; herekitty; hizzoner; homosexualagenda; howlermonkeys; howlermonkeyzot; howlinzot; hsw; immaturity; jrrocks; julieannie; julieanniebotsmad; lemmings; liberty; lookatmenow; massresignation; newt; no; nonopus; nopiapspleez; onepercentersgone; onepercentersrule; opus; opuscentral; peachcompost; piapers; pridegoethb4; prolife; propertyrights; propiaps; rabidfringeshame; realmenofgenius; rino; rinorudy; rinos; rossperot; rudy; rudyhasalisp; rudyinadress; rudymcromney; rudytherino; ruhroh; runfredrun; savagegotitrite; selfimmolation; socialism; socialist; springcleaning; springhousecleaning; stoprudy; stoprudy2008; suicidebymod; supo; sweepuptime; takingoutthetrash; thanksjim; themanwhosavednyc; thtoprudy; travesty; undeadthread; vikingkitties; weneedfred; wideawake; wideawakes; zap; zapper; zot; zotbelt
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To: ansel12

New Yorkers rate Bloomberg better than Rudy, and said they’d rather have Bloomberg as president.


1,651 posted on 04/22/2007 2:42:44 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: Elyse

“Elect hilary” is not the same as “vote for Hillary”. Since the poster said “vote for Giuliani”, I presume he would have said “vote for Hillary” if that’s what he meant.

We all know there are freepers who won’t vote for Rudy, even if it means Hillary will be elected.

I just asked for the freepers who actually said they would VOTE for Hillary.

I’m still waiting for that, although the “vote for the democrat” could be implied to mean “hillary” if you think hillary is inevitable, which I do not.


1,652 posted on 04/22/2007 2:45:36 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: conservative in nyc

But once again, the poster did NOT say he’d VOTE for Hillary. He said he’d give her money, but NOT that he’d VOTE for her.


1,653 posted on 04/22/2007 2:47:02 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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1,654 posted on 04/22/2007 2:47:32 AM PDT by BykrBayb (Be careful what you ask for, and even more careful what you demand. )
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To: Jim Robinson; Peach

C’mon Jim. It’s very early in the A.M. People are tired - yet have passion in their convictions. Peach is one of the best around here. Let’s take a step back and breathe.


1,655 posted on 04/22/2007 2:47:43 AM PDT by Lando Lincoln
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To: Howlin

But was it dumber than my other post? Because I’m upset that mkjessup beat me out so quick and I’d like to get my award back. :-)


1,656 posted on 04/22/2007 2:48:09 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: Jim Robinson

Oh my gosh. I actually logged back onto the computer to check something else and saw this post.

So now it’s attacking Ronald Reagan to post his record? Anyone who knows me for these last 9 years has seen me post about my opposition to abortion. You draw whatever conclusions from that you need to draw.


1,657 posted on 04/22/2007 2:48:43 AM PDT by Peach
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To: BykrBayb

ROFL!!! I was thinking the same thing.


1,658 posted on 04/22/2007 2:49:40 AM PDT by Elyse (I refuse to feed the crocodile.)
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To: Jim Robinson

Note though he didn’t say he’d VOTE for Hillary, just that he’d give her money. You could speculate he’d vote for her, but it’s easier to send money than to actually pull the lever.


1,659 posted on 04/22/2007 2:50:40 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: Elyse

Maybe just one more post?


1,660 posted on 04/22/2007 2:52:29 AM PDT by BykrBayb (Be careful what you ask for, and even more careful what you demand. )
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To: Peach; Jim Robinson

Where, I’m reading every post, and I’ve seen 3 so far, one said he’d vote for a democrat but it didn’t say hillary, and later said he’d stay home; one said he’d “elect hillary” but not that he’d vote for her, and the 3rd said he’d give her money, but not that he’d vote for her.

I believe that there is a freeper out there that actually said they’d vote for Hillary. I’d just like to know who they are, and we don’t have that name yet.


1,661 posted on 04/22/2007 2:52:55 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: Peach; Rodney King

Jim later explained that it was for his post about the founding fathers, NOT the post to Jim.


1,662 posted on 04/22/2007 2:55:25 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: Blackirish

It got lost in the mayhem that followed. Maybe I’ll get to it.


1,663 posted on 04/22/2007 2:57:26 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: Jim Robinson
Do you think I'm going to bow down and accept abortionism, feminism, homosexualism, global warming, illegal alien lawbreakers, gun control, asset forfeiture, socialism, tyranny, totalitarianism, etc, etc, etc, just so some fancy New York liberal lawyer can become president from the Republican party?

but....but...he inhaled 9-11 dust at ground zero...he's entitled!

1,664 posted on 04/22/2007 2:58:09 AM PDT by TADSLOS (Islam is the non-dissolving flavah bomb in the melting pot of civilization.)
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To: Peach

I hate the personal attack speech from both sides, but I’m not a moderator so I can do little more than cover my ears and cringe.

And I used up my vanity complaining about saying “i’d hit it” every time a girl’s picture is posted.

So what can I do?


1,665 posted on 04/22/2007 2:58:36 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: BykrBayb

And that was all she wrote.


1,666 posted on 04/22/2007 3:00:28 AM PDT by Elyse (I refuse to feed the crocodile.)
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To: Howlin

I was simply explaining where I see all of the “that’s the worst” comments. They are usually NOT hear, but on liberal sites like NotLarrySabato.

I didn’t know that was a card. I thought it was simply an explanatory statement.

Was that the worst playing of a liberal card ever?


1,667 posted on 04/22/2007 3:00:35 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: CharlesWayneCT

“New Yorkers rate Bloomberg better than Rudy, and said they’d rather have Bloomberg as president.”

My son that lives in New York City may or may not agree with those polls, but it will be difficult to shake me from my view that Rudy is one of America’s great historical figures as the mayor of New York City in an age where we had centuries of history to compare him with.

Rudy is who he is and he should be proud, but the measure of the man will come when it becomes clear that his Mayoralty does not translate to “President of the United States”.

but the measure of the man will come when it becomes clear that his Mayoralty does not translate to “President of the United States”.


1,668 posted on 04/22/2007 3:02:59 AM PDT by ansel12 ((America, love it ,or at least give up your home citizenship before accepting ours too.))
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To: Elyse

That was the worst non-post I ever stayed up all night for. Does anybody have a ping list for when it finally gets posted? I’d hate to miss it.


1,669 posted on 04/22/2007 3:03:52 AM PDT by BykrBayb (Be careful what you ask for, and even more careful what you demand. )
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To: AntiGuv

Those are from his exploratory committee. Are we certain they are his positions, and not just what his exploratory committee thinks his positions are?

I went and looked them up a few hours ago because I was interested in his “flat tax” support, and as you can see there is nothing there about the flat tax. In fact, under Cutting Taxes, it doesn’t actually say that Rudy will cut taxes, or that he won’t raise them, it just talks about what he already did.

So in fact some of those aren’t really “issues” but are rather “accomplishments”.

I hope he gets a web site up soon that actually lists his current issues, especially since according to rudy posters tonight a lot of his positions are evolving now.


1,670 posted on 04/22/2007 3:05:31 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: Peach
Ok, if anyone’s interested, you got banned because you are attempting to smear Ronald Reagan in your effort to build up Rudy Giuliani. Also, in general, you are going way out of your way trying to justify abortion. Again, to give cover for Giuliani’s liberal positions. There was no other reason possible for you to drag Ronald Reagan into this Rudy abortion discussion. You smear a good man while defending abortionists. No thanks. Take it elsewhere.

You should've just stated the truth that Giuliani is an abortionist and that you are ok with that and support him anyway. There's no reason for anyone to smear good consrvatives or to try to justify abortion. That will not fly on FR.

1,671 posted on 04/22/2007 3:06:07 AM PDT by Jim Robinson
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To: Peach

None of them said they would “vote for Hillary”.


1,672 posted on 04/22/2007 3:06:53 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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Comment #1,673 Removed by Moderator

To: Peach

PEACH,
“So now it’s attacking Ronald Reagan to post his record?”
“When Reagan changed from a Democrat to a Republican and pro choice to pro life, he was embraced.”

I’m asking you to put up or shut up, please give me the quotes and his political statements that support your constant slurs.


1,674 posted on 04/22/2007 3:11:09 AM PDT by ansel12 ((America, love it ,or at least give up your home citizenship before accepting ours too.))
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To: ansel12; Peach; Jim Robinson

Don’t think she’ll be answering now.

Hopefully tomorrow, after everybody gets some sleep.

I don’t know how we will do live speech threads without Peach, she was the only one who could keep up and post everything that was said in real time.

I’m willing to put up with her absurd comments about Reagan for her outstanding transcription ability.


1,675 posted on 04/22/2007 3:14:10 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: CharlesWayneCT

Hey, and with that, I’m the last one standing again.


1,676 posted on 04/22/2007 3:14:44 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: BykrBayb

Ping - 1671.

You are welcome.


1,677 posted on 04/22/2007 3:15:13 AM PDT by stuned_beeber (Quit...Give up...Go home...- Vote Democrat!)
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To: CharlesWayneCT; Lurker
quidnick, according to Jim Robinson, attacked the founding fathers to try by tearing them down to make Rudy look better. It rubbed Jim the wrong way.

Quidnunc is Banned?

Best FR news I've heard all week. Maybe longer. There was absolutely no excess of Government expenditure or Government violence to which that gun-controlling jack-boot would not stoop to justify in the name of "Law & Order!" None.

1,678 posted on 04/22/2007 3:15:35 AM PDT by OrthodoxPresbyterian (Please Ping or FReepMail me to be added to the Great Ron Paul Ping List)
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To: Jim Robinson

I to can not eve vote for him.


1,679 posted on 04/22/2007 3:19:00 AM PDT by Hydroshock (Duncan Hunter For President, checkout gohunter08.com.)
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To: CharlesWayneCT; Jim Robinson; Peach

We all have different sleeping cycles. Simply put, the time of day is no excuse. It’s not like this is the first time she did that kind of stuff about Reagan. Besides, she was clearly warned by Jim in the previous post. (Replying to any of the names I brought up out of respect, even though Peach is no longer with us.)


1,680 posted on 04/22/2007 3:19:39 AM PDT by NinoFan
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To: NinoFan

No excuse for Peach’s remarks I meant.


1,681 posted on 04/22/2007 3:20:20 AM PDT by NinoFan
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To: CharlesWayneCT; Peach
Well, she’d better be real good with apologies and have a convincing argument that she’ll deal only in the truth in the future and will stay away from smearing conservative presidents, candidates and posters. I think her first step will have to be an admission that Giuliani is what he admits to being and that is a social liberal who supports abortion, gay rights, gun control, illegal aliens, etc, and that these are indeed liberal positions and are repulsive to conservatives. I mean why deny it or lie about it? Why try to justify it? You cannot justify abortion to conservatives. That’s impossible. The man admits to being a liberal, and is proud of it. He’s running on his liberal record and admits those who can’t live with that should not vote for him. Admitting the truth is so much easier and more pleasant than fighting with everyone on FR.
1,682 posted on 04/22/2007 3:25:49 AM PDT by Jim Robinson
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To: stuned_beeber

Thank you for the ping. Have a lovely day.


1,683 posted on 04/22/2007 3:26:11 AM PDT by BykrBayb (Be careful what you ask for, and even more careful what you demand. )
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To: Jim Robinson
Admitting the truth is so much easier and more pleasant than fighting with everyone on FR.

It all depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is.

But it does not provide nearly as much amusement for the masses.

Thank you for your uncompromising stand on those things that really matter.

1,684 posted on 04/22/2007 3:32:43 AM PDT by stuned_beeber (Quit...Give up...Go home...- Vote Democrat!)
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To: Jim Robinson

Maybe it boils down to individuals determining that they want someone in the Presidential office at all costs of WINNING?
To hell with the constitution, these people want to WIN at all costs! Liberals and PseudoConservatives will say and do anything to get elected because it is POWER that they desire.
In FReeperland we should judge a man or woman by what they said and did NOT what they are saying they are “going to do” if elected.
Rudy, or any other liberal, that has a proven track record of throwing out the constitution to gain their current position of “power” must be considered in the primary process of the upcoming elections.
The media will continue to put these people in a “positive light” because they know that in the end it will tear the conservative voter away from the Republican party. (A city divided against itself cannot stand!)


1,685 posted on 04/22/2007 3:36:23 AM PDT by missnry (The truth will set you free!)
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To: rbmillerjr

Marking


1,686 posted on 04/22/2007 3:37:08 AM PDT by Getsmart64
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To: Lando Lincoln

Hey... the SUN never sets on FReeperland! I am sitting over here in Rota, Spain and the sun is just about half way in the sky and kind of enjoying this thread.


1,687 posted on 04/22/2007 3:41:14 AM PDT by missnry (The truth will set you free!)
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To: Jim Robinson

These are unique times, and the GOP is going to have real trouble winning an election with the demographics that are changing as we speak. The democrats have successfully demonized republicans as being mainly white religious bigots.

Rudy connects across the board, with many disaffected democrats as well as independents and also with the youth that watched his leadership after 9/11.


1,688 posted on 04/22/2007 3:43:39 AM PDT by tkathy
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To: tkathy

B/S.


1,689 posted on 04/22/2007 3:48:03 AM PDT by Jim Robinson
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To: skeeter

“From what I can tell, a lot of them are no longer here, and in my humble opinion thats an improvement.”

Amen to that!


1,690 posted on 04/22/2007 3:51:34 AM PDT by EasySt (Life is precious. Live it well...)
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To: tkathy

Rino Rudy can not win without support of the base, he will split that. So he will lose.


1,691 posted on 04/22/2007 3:53:08 AM PDT by Hydroshock (Duncan Hunter For President, checkout gohunter08.com.)
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To: Jim Robinson

Regardless of whether Giuliani would be a good or a bad President, the problem you have inadvertantly raised is one of divisiveness.

Extirpating all the Giuliani BOTS will not result in anything but a smaller party that is destined to become even smaller as others refine who is and who is not a conservative.

It is your Web Site so you can do what you want. If there is a diminution of interest in FR the problem is not the site but the plethora of interactive, conservative blogs.

Regards


1,692 posted on 04/22/2007 3:53:43 AM PDT by shrinkermd
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To: Jim Robinson
The man admits to being a liberal, and is proud of it.

He sure does.

He’s running on his liberal record and admits those who can’t live with that should not vote for him.

Mighty big of old Rudy, that.

I think her first step will have to be an admission that Giuliani is what he admits to being

None of the Rudy folks here seem to want to do that. They'll yell and stamp and shout that he really is conservative no matter how many times he says he isn't. The truth doesn't seem to matter to the RGs.

"He's a fiscal conservative!" they'll shout. But they can't explain what's fiscally conservative about using taxpayer funds to pay for abortions or welfare for illegals.

"You're a one issue voter!" is usually the next one they toss out. So you list at least 4 things RG is obviously shriekingly liberal about; gun control, abortion, McCain Feingold, 'sanctuary' cities for illegals, etc. Then they'll switch to the 'he's electable' canard.

I don't care what they say. I don't vote for liberals, period end of sentence.

And it's darned good to see you putting a few of these folks out Jim.

Thanks.

L

1,693 posted on 04/22/2007 3:57:31 AM PDT by Lurker (Comparing 'moderate' islam to 'extremist' islam is like comparing small pox to plague.)
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To: Jim Robinson

Wow, quite a thread, you have been busy.

Do you find the rest of the GOP field— Romney, McCain, Thompson, Hunter to all be conservative enough?

I hope that Thompson runs, we need him to run.

The GOP is at a big disadvantage picking candidates for national office. A successful candidate for national office needs to have the right ideology, plus be “attractive” in the sense that people connect with them, and have a relatively spotless past.

Conservatives have a bigger problem in this regard than the libs. Most people with the right conservative politics are already successful in the private sector, and strongly distrust government. They would never consider becoming a politician which by its nature is a sleazy business.

So, our best candidates are busy running large corporations, or running their own businesses, or enjoying the lifestyle that their success has brought them. Not running for President. Most people see what the lib media does to a conservative politician and feel that life is too short to put up with that crap.

The original idea that politicians would serve for a time then go back to their regular jobs is pretty much dead. And the “success and personal responsibility” party suffers because of it.


1,694 posted on 04/22/2007 4:00:27 AM PDT by RobFromGa (This tagline intentionally left blank.)
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To: Jim Robinson
We agree wholeheartedly with your statement. Woefully needed discussion on sliding into the morrass of socialism. Conservatives must crystalize their thinking on these things,or suffer the fate of those who stand for nothing! May God bless you,Jim
1,695 posted on 04/22/2007 4:00:30 AM PDT by tajgirvan
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To: shrinkermd
Can anyone even possibly suggest that Rudy Giuliani is conservative? Since when are abortion rights, gay rights, gun control, sanctuary cities for illegals, etc, conservative positions? Why don’t the Rudy supporters simply admit the truth about the man? He does. He says I’m a gay union, woman’s right to choose, gun control, illegal alien kinda guy and those who can’t live with that shouldn’t vote for me. Why can’t they accept and admit to the truth and quit fighting about it. He’s a social liberal and proud of it and running on his liberal abortionist record.
.
1,696 posted on 04/22/2007 4:01:34 AM PDT by Jim Robinson
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To: Jim Robinson

I just got up,Jim and jumped to the last post. You need to go to sleep. I do agree with most of your original post.


1,697 posted on 04/22/2007 4:02:47 AM PDT by larryjohnson (USAF(Ret))
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To: flashbunny
Good quote! Here's another for your collection:We will have no more of those candidates who are pledged to the same goals as our opposition and who seek our support.
Turning the Party over to the so-called moderates wouldn't make any sense at all.

— Ronald Reagan, 1965 (Source)

1,698 posted on 04/22/2007 4:03:37 AM PDT by calcowgirl ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." P. J. O'Rourke)
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To: donna

Do you not realize that just about all of the canidates have had cancer in one form or another?

Ronald Reagan had a very serious colon cancer operation while in office.

Anyone can get the big “C” in a New York minute.

This should be your last reason for not voting for someone.


1,699 posted on 04/22/2007 4:05:50 AM PDT by Coldwater Creek (President Fred Thompson will finally give the University of Memphis the respect that it is due!)
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To: RobFromGa
You raise some mighty fine points and I agree. Getting good conservatives to run for office is a tough job as conservatives generally dislike and don’t trust government. As Reagan said, government is not the solution, it is the problem.

You mention Romney, McCain, Thompson, Hunter. IMHO, though I really distrust McCain, all of them are more conservative and more suitable for the task than Giuliani. I’d also include Newt as a possible if he’d run. The debates will be interesting.

1,700 posted on 04/22/2007 4:09:42 AM PDT by Jim Robinson
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